Another Caption Contest (6/7/07)

We need to treat it just like we did the records of spitballers before THEY were outlawed (whether it is RIGHT or WRONG is not the issue...)

It was. We know better NOW. Move on, don't go back...

-#1 - Long live baseball,

-#2 - down with anything that prevents #1

totally, and even if they wanted to, they have to factor in how many players juiced. Because appearantly Canseco's Book is regarded as legit, and according to him, almost everyone Juiced. So is it still cheating?

PatBurke, sometimes I think you are the smartest, most truthful person on this site (and by far the most smutiest at heart tooo)that's because you love the game more than what people did to it... Let's talk about BASEBALL, not anything else (Hank knows baseball matters more than he does...

People need to get overt their precious records... (down with 56)

and screw asterisks

Thank you Manny. I'm certainly not the smartest person on this site by a long shot. One thing you are right about it that i absolutely love the game. Definitely more than any one player. But yes, I am the smuttiest.

And don't get me started on DiMaggio's 56 game hitting streak.

Ted Williams nearly hit for a higher average in 1941 than did DiMaggio during his streak. (DiMaggio hit .408 over his 56 game hit streak. Williams hit .406 FOR THE YEAR!!!)

Ah, whatever, the streak was impressive. I hate the Yankees.

So baseball was more is to blame for Aaron's loss (or Ruth's if you wanna count the # of games)...How does that not still deserve an *...any way you stack it...its not fair to the person who didn't cheat

And its even more ridiculous that you'd defend it because someone (assumably tyrone) takes the opposite opinion...

Aaron, Ruth, Maris...were all screwed over by the record...and records make baseball...how many sabrematricians on this site will agree? (and I know you're out there...)

Statistics and baseball are a love affair together...

WHAT does an asterisk do? Tell us eras were different? Then put asterisks next to Cy Young, Sam Crawford and ANYONE who played before night games, or integration, or astroturf, or shorter mounds, or interleague play, etc and on and on ad nauseum.

If you can't figure out Ruth's 714 differed from Aaron's 755 from Ted Klusewski's 279 then I CAN'T HELP YOU and neither can an asterisk.

OF COURSE Bonds hit them under different circumstances - MANY different circumstances - ball, bat and field to name three. Bonds uses a Maple bat that is fused. People in Aaron's day never considered Maple, they used Ash. (around 33-35 inches and ounces)

Babe Ruth used ash, but he used a 20 inch bat at times and often a 38+ ounce bat!!!! NO ONE will EVER use a bat like Ruth's.

Hell I have a bat Johnny Bench gave me when I was little - a 36-36. WHO today would even CONSIDER a 36 inch OR a 36 ounce bat???? WHY shit on the game to prove it to others?

Johnny bench gave me that bat AFTER Hank Aaron was already retired... Do you think a MLB player would use a 36 oz bat today? NO CHANCE in HELL.

Until Bobby Bonds, Ricjie Allen and Dave Kingman came around, players tried to NOT strike out - meaning they didn't try to KILL every pitch as much as make contact...

THE GAME IS DIFFERENT EVERY YEAR - YOU CAN'T COMPARE ANY PLAYERS that didn't play in the same season, let alone ERA...

And if you won't mention Ted Williams when you argue Ruth, Aaron, Bonds then you're already a fool that can't be helped.

What can an asterisk do...easy - define cheaters...why...

Well, unlike ruth, mays, aaron, cy young, etc who hit, caught, pitched in different eras with different styles (ballparks, mounds, intergration, etc, like you mentioned), it wasn't their fault and they didn't actively do it...and that's the difference...

The game will always change and its fathomable that a guy like david wright (he's probably the youngest player who could fathomably do this at this point), could hit 1000 home runs and we'd say its because he got to play in places like new shea (which I think is smaller?), philly and the myriad of hitter friendly parks that others didn't have a chance to play in. But he won't get a * (assumably) because he didn't actively try to do this...and that's why he or ruth or anyone else doesn't get a *, but guys like bonds and McGwire should...

And what does not mentioning ted williams have to do with anything? I was just naming players who were good...sorry the spledid splinter didn't come up before ruth, aaron or maris (who all owned home run records, which seems more pertinent to mention than the last guy to hit .400+...)

PB, you're bonds breaking the rules argument is something I've argued for at least 5 years...its an interesting predicament...considering he broke no rules baseball-wise, but did legally. I agree with you on the point and have used it as a haymaker to argue for bonds (because, it all actuality, it makes a hell of a lot of sense), but you find that people are to stubborn and don't understand the entire issue to get it...

Does US law supercide baseball regulations in matters pretaining to baseball records...I don't think so...

Then again, from a purist standpoint, it was still wrong and moreover, most things in baseball that are illegal were legal at some point and just need to be seen and understood before they're removed...this seems to be one of those cases

JU - you make a very good point. One I hadn't thought about. While steroids weren't against the rules in baseball they were certainly illegal.

If he had been caught and prosecuted I think we could call him a cheater. But he didn't break any laws (or didn't get caught) and didn't break any rules.

It's a very good argument, but I still think the record stands. But that's just one man's opinion.

I think it is safe to say that 1941 might have been the greatest year ever in baseball history. Two of the most magical marks that you always seem to hear about every year were exstablished that year. That was the year that of couse Joe D hit for 56 games, but it is also the year that Ted Williams hit 406 as stated above. These are two of the most cherished records in baseball and they both were established in the same year. In addition, Williams missed out on the MVP to Joe D despite the fact he lead the league in homers and average and I think finished second to Joe D in RBIs by 5. How is that for one monster sports year

Thanks PB, it complicates the steroids thing and really throws it for a loop. Everyone should be entitled to their opinion, and I'm fine with that...I think we could really dive deep into this if we wanted to...there's probably a books worth of arguments and points...

damn you pean...how i envy your ability to pull off these BTTF references.

Clayton has managed to "shrink" the entire issue into 2 sentences...amazing... Pun intended...

folks, and we have a winner

The winner? More + arriving for Mr.Smythe?

i don't decide or anything, i was just pointing out that it was the best one

Yeah, clayton landed the haymaker with that one...

+ for EVERYONE!

I'm more than happy to post an alternate picture for a caption contest if you would prefer.

I kinda wanna see it for sheer curiosity...

Thanks for doing it without the CAPS and the feud. A cheat is a cheat and that's all there is to it.