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Why is no one covering the Stanley Cup finals? Blame the NHL

12
Vote

by user J Cunningham

Most of the major newspapers in the U.S. aren't covering the Stanley Cup finals between the Anaheim Ducks and Ottawa Senators.

Why, you ask? Well, the NHL hasn't exactly been near the pulse of the American sporting landscape for the past couple years, and that can easily be attributed to the way the game's higher-ups -- commissioner Gary Bettman, specifically -- have handled their on-ice product.

So when newspaper after newspaper decides not to staff the finals, who's to blame? The newspapers for not staffing? The readers for not caring the newspaper didn't staff?

No ... it's the NHL's fault.

I won't sit here and say hockey's a bad sport, because it's really not. Sure, the on-ice action can at times be hard to follow on television, and I find it almost impossible to listen to a hockey radio broadcast (just too much going on), but it's one of the fastest, most exciting sports there is.

But nobody cares, and that's a product of the NHL's upper offices and the NHLPA. The lockout, and the fallout from it, have hit the sport so hard not even the most famous trophy in all of sports generates that much excitement anymore.

Consider first the fact that the lockout took away an entire season. Not a partial season, not just the playoffs ... the entire season.

Sure, Major League Baseball suffered when it went on strike and took out the 1994 World Series. But the game never went away for the full 162-game tilt. Neither have the NBA or the NFL -- hell, the NFL's last work stoppage saw the advent of replacement players so the games would continue and the sport wouldn't fade from the national consciousness.

But the NHL? It lost the playoffs, the Stanley Cup finals and the 82-game schedule, thus making it irrelevant and unreported for over a full calendar year. Which meant no one was talking about hockey ... because there was nothing to talk about.

People always get mad at work stoppages in professional sports -- millionaires bickering with billionaires over money never engenders public sympathy -- but most of the time, the shortage is short enough to thrust the sport back into the national spotlight before public memory of the games fades. But with the NHL, that memory was long gone; the NHL didn't play a game for nearly two years, so is it any wonder hardly anyone remembered what hockey was like when it finally came back?

Then there's the TV deal the league struck upon its return. Rather than sign a deal with ESPN for far less, the NHL went with a split deal with NBC and Versus (formerly OLN, the official home of the Tour de Lance). There was a lot of money in the deal, but a lot of cable providers nationwide don't carry Versus ... and for a lot of the cable subscribers who do have it, they can't find it on their dial.

I only found my Versus only because it was a channel before Comcast SportsNet, which until this year broadcast Baltimore Orioles games. So I saw bicycle racing or fishing or a rodeo every time I flipped over to the game.

The NHL should've signed on with ESPN. Sure, the Worldwide Leader wasn't offering nearly as much, but it's called the Worldwide Leader for a reason; when ESPN gives a sport a significant amount of air time, said sport is viewed more favorably in the public sports consciousness. By broadcasting NHL games, ESPN would've essentially told the public, "The NHL is a viable product and a sport that's worth your -- and our -- attention."

Versus and NBC don't do the same.

So between the lockout and the asanine TV deal, Bettman has shut a good deal of the country off of his sport. And it's a shame, because the games are exciting and some of the young talent throughout the league is really something ot be proud of and get pumped for. But when Sidney Crosby and Alex Ovechkin grow on the ice, hardly anyone gets to see them, because the NHL is run by mindless simpletons who seem determined to derail their sport.

Bud Selig looks at these guys and shakes his head.

So I have no issue with the country's major newspapers thumbing their nose at the Stanley Cup finals. Because I get the impression the NHL thumbed its nose at us a long time ago.


Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
JuTMSY4Legend
915 days ago
Score 3+-
The Stanley Cup what?
Permalink | Reply
J CunninghamVarsity Captain
915 days ago
Score 2+-
My point exactly. :P
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False ProphetAll-Star
915 days ago
Score 0+-
Sidney Crosby and the Penguins need a freak season next year (a la the 98 HR record chase for baseball) to bring people back. Minny's got pretty decent coverage of it. But, then again, we are called the State of Hockey for a reason
Permalink | Reply
The BeastAAA-er
915 days ago
Score 1+-
It also doesn't help that a California team and the low-profile Senators are in the Finals. The Ducks don't get much love even in CA.
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False ProphetAll-Star
915 days ago
Score 0+-
Yeah, if Pittsburgh, and Minny or a New England/New York team were to get to the finals, the ratings would be great. They'd be helped a lot by the fact that both teams are located in areas where Hockey is more natural, and henceforth the ratings would increase. If Minny made the Stanley Cup, I'd get tickets, no doubt in my mind
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Taytay 24All-American
914 days ago
Score 5+-
Minnesota making the Finals might get you to buy a ticket, FP, but it would do nothing for the ratings. No one outside of Minnesota gives a flip about the Wild. If you want ratings, it's got to be the Rangers in the East. Maybe the Pens if the league actually markets Crosby like the star he is. Out West, Detroit is the team. These are the teams that could bring in the ratings across the nation.
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JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 1+-
Taytay is right, unfortunately (even though I'm a rangers fan). The Only thing that can get the league popular again is the Rangers (the Isles maybe, but obviously the Devils don't do the trick). Why? New york city has 8 million people, and the metro area is 23 million. Thats one of every 13 people or so in the entire country. If the New York media started to go crazy over a great NY Team, then the rest of the country would be obligated to cover it. It's not an east coast bias, it's an east coast population imbalance. Cali has more people but enough teams and indifferent fans to divide them. NY loves a winner. Hockey was on top of the world when the Rangers won. If they could bring it back, hockey could be revived.
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JuTMSY4Legend
914 days ago
Score 0+-
Basically a big market team...toronto or Montreal also wouldn't be bad, The NHL prayed the flyers would beat the lightning in 2004 (didn't happen) so at least 1 big market team would be there... Decent canadian teams are needed to keep the NHL going, that and big market eastern teams...even a rangers canucks final or a flyers oilers final would be ok...(yeah, i said flyers)
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False ProphetAll-Star
914 days ago
Score -2+-
But if you have a northern team in the Stanley Cup finals, you're guaranteed a sell out every time they have a home game, and you're guaranteed that the entire metro area will watch. Minnesota is a huge Hockey state. You get a sold out stadium, plus the entire metro area. But that's the point. No one gives a flip about teams not in their local market besides the hard core fans. You have to have markets like New England, Like Minnesota, like Pittsburg, like Detroit, and like New York that have a large hockey audience, you will begin to hook people on the game. I can personally say that because of the wild's short lived playoff run, that I will watch the NHL next year.
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JuTMSY4Legend
914 days ago
Score 0+-
oh yeah, and the bruins
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False ProphetAll-Star
914 days ago
Score 0+-
big market won't cut it. LA is a huge city, but it did nothing to have them in the finals
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JuTMSY4Legend
914 days ago
Score 0+-
My fault, i meant in the east...
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JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 1+-
The only one of those that has a big hockey audience and a big audience in general is NY.

Listen carefully. Pittsburgh, who almost just lost their team, is not a big enough market to save the NHL. Even if every Pittsburgher watched, it would be less people than live above 14th street in Manhattan.

Sadly, the ONLY team that can save the NHL -- because of the population involved -- is the one that plays in NYC.

Was it really McGwire/Sosa that saved Baseball? Or was it (i'm about to puke a little) the Yankees dynasty. I'd say it's the latter. It is the Yankees continuing competitiveness (and the Mets now too)that is keeping people alive. People want to see who is gonna beat the Yankees. Notice that baseball's down attendance years coincide with the period in the first half of the 90s when both NY teams were mediocre. Think about that.
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JuTMSY4Legend
914 days ago
Score 0+-
You and FP should debate on whether Minnesota or NY will save hockey...then you can decide which city is better equipped for a nuclear apocalypse...have fun...
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False ProphetAll-Star
914 days ago
Score 0+-
Typical New York bias. If the league markets Crosby right, he'll draw a crowd. All of those teams would have the entire local market watching. It was the 98 home run chase that saved baseball. And if you think otherwise, you're kidding yourself. No one gave a damn about baseball till that season when the we had two players hitting the long ball like no one had every done. People showed up because they knew they had a chance to see history. People watched those teams because they wanted to see the one that broke the record. They wanted to see the home runs.

The same thing is happening in Basketball. The Spurs are practically a dynasty, yet no one gives a shit because they don't have that sexy name, or that sexy attraction. Tell me the Staples center continues to sell out lakers games because people want to watch the lakers, and I'll call you a liar. They show up because of Kobe. If Sid the Kid gets marketed as Hockey's Kobe/Lebron/Wade/Melo/Iverson (to a less extent)/Brady/Manning/LT, people will want to watch the Pengs play.

Beyond that, Hockey won't succeed unless they can conquer the markets that are natural hockey markets. If Minny, Detroit, Boston, and New york (regardless of team) have success, those markets watch. They don't even need marketing because they like hockey to begin with. Then, once you've secured the Northern markets can you worry about other major cities.
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JuTMSY4Legend
914 days ago
Score 1+-
He's right about that...cleveland isn't a big draw, bt they have lebron...
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JuTMSY4Legend
914 days ago
Score 0+-
You forgot Philly FP, and christof will kill you if you forget again...
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
914 days ago
Score -1+-
philly fits in as well, but, then again, if any of their teams can win a championship, everyone will love them (sorry christof, but it's true)
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JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 0+-
We're going to have to have a challenge about this. Bias shmias. I'm talking about population here. HARD NUMBERS. You remember those, right? The problem with Minny is that the estimated population of the ENTIRE state is 5,167,101 as of 2006. That's one in 60 Americans. As I said before, NYC Metro area (not even counting upstate) is 1 of every 13 Americans. Pittsburgh is even smaller. Marketing won't get NYers to give a crap about a Pittsburgh player.
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score -1+-
Oh and btw, with basketball's downtick, notice who SUCKS coinciding with it. Another mere coincidence.
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
914 days ago
Score -1+-
yeah it can. You don't think that a lot of NYers are watching the NBA finals because of Lebron? Hell, almost the entire country will give a damn about the NBA finals because of Lebron. You need to get the passionate fans to care about the league. That means that you have to market to Minny, Detroit, Philly, Pittsburg, Boston, and to NY. You need to capture the hockey fans before you can get the nation to care. New York cared about the yankees, but the nation was captured by the HR chase.
Permalink
The BeastAAA-er
914 days ago
Score 2+-
Big markets don't always cut it. LA is a huge metro area. California is 36 million people. However, nobody gives a shit about hockey here. What you need is the Hockey cities to be at the top. You don't want Florida, California, Arizona, or Texas teams to dominate the league. You want hockey teams that are in cold cities with big markets to dominate (i.e. NYC, Philly, Boston, Detroit, and Chicago). Also Canada's marquee teams like the Leafs and Canadians would help also. You want to attract the die hard hockey fans. How many true die-hards really care about a team from Disneyland and another B rated Canadian team. None. You need big time serieses like the Rangers versus the Wings. The Devils versus the Blackhawks. You also need stars like Crosby in the Finals. People in LA/Texas will watch the next great one if they keep hearing about how good he is.
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 0+-
No one in NY is even talking basketball. In the office, as soon as the Knicks were eliminated and the Rangers were knocked out, the talk turned 100% to baseball. Understand that I think this is sad but true. NY SHOULD care about LeBron, but we don't. I'd venture to guess that if The Knicks sucked when Jordan was king, we'd have payed a lot less attention. It was only the fact that the Bulls were the only team we couln't seem to get past in the east was why we were paying attention.

Let's look at this another way. There's a reason LeBron will get paid significantly more by his sponsors if he goes to NY. Because more people care.

Like I said, it's strictly an issue of population.
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 0+-
You need to back up your marketing vs people watching with tv numbers. I don't buy it.
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
914 days ago
Score 0+-
but new york teams won't always be on top. A successful league needs to function without a Good NY team (see NFL).
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 0+-
Oh and remember that the HR chase was with 2 players in 2 of the higher attendance Markets in baseball, StL and Chicago. I'm going to back down on what I said a smidge and say that it was a combination of the Yankees being good AND the HR chase that saved baseball. and Remember, I HATE the Yankees.
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
914 days ago
Score 0+-
but who's gonna give a real shit about hockey if they can't get hardcore Hockey fans to care
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
914 days ago
Score 0+-
but then why 98? Why does everything seem to change that season if not for the HR record chase?
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 0+-
The NFL is the ONLY one to do that, and it's because of the cap and revenue sharing (which thankfully Giants ownership supported to their own detriment for the benefit of the game). ALthough, when was the last time BOTH teams were absolutely terrible in NY? Remember foot ball is also about supply and demand. Only 16 games. Low supply, increasing value and demand. If there were 81 football games (if it were logistically viable), I think the NFL would suffer with some of the issues the other leagues experience.
Permalink
Davis21wylieMVP
914 days ago
Score 3+-
Frankly, Bettman should rigged the 2005 draft and sent Crosby to L.A... For a brief shining moment in the nineties, Gretzky turned hockey into an event in SoCal (and made people south of the Mason-Dixon aware of the sport), which was instrumental in getting the league a national TV contract in the mid-90s. Crosby can (and needs to be) that kind of ambassador, but he can never do it from Pittsburgh -- if a supreme talent like Mario Lemieux isn't a household name from that city, then Crosby has no chance.
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 1+-
Hardcore fans don't make the sports money or get them attention(except in football). It's the casual nitwits wearing the Pink Yankees/Cubs/Sawx gear who do. It's when you get the secretary in the office caring about what A-rod did last night. Not saying this is good, it's just a sad fact of the modern world. Hardcore fans will always be fans. It is the casual who make or break the sport.
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JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 0+-
BUt then why 98? I just conceded it's a combination of the two. You are a couple years into the dynasty years, and then the HR chase happens. I think That the HR race had impact, (In two large Baseball markets, of course) but that without the Yankees (or if it had been the Mets instead) being really good, it would not have been enough.
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False ProphetAll-Star
914 days ago
Score 0+-
but those people only buy that stuff when it's cool to be wearing it, I.E. when the team is good. They won't be around all the time. You need to get the fans who will buy the gear regardless. The guys who show up to every home game despite the team record. The NFL may be the only example, but I think that it's fact that they're the most successful pro sports league in North America if not in the World
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JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 0+-
You're now making my argument for me. You MUST have those casual douchenozzles in order to fund the sport and make it talked about. For the sports with problems like this, especially one as tenuous financially and fan base wise, you have to build the base, not cater to the extant base. You have to convert those people into real fans, and then you have people that stay even when the team is bad. For better or worse, the way to do that is with attracting the casual fans and getting them to stay. Getting NYers to watch hockey will be more effective for the sport overall than Minny fans for example, just because there are much more of them. So ad revenues go up. So better broadcasting happens. So more marketing can. It's all a vicious circle, up or down.
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False ProphetAll-Star
914 days ago
Score 0+-
but how long would it take do you think to get NY to fall in love with Hockey again? If you market at all to Minny, you have 5 mil+ hardcore fans on the spot.
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JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 0+-
5 minutes. If the rangers were in the Cup finals, every bandwagon jumper would be out there, along with the fans. Even if every person in Minny rooted for the wild, it wouldn't have the national marketing Power that NY does. Remember, people love to Hate NY. People are mildly indifferent about Minny. And for my downvoter, I"m not saying this a good thing, I'm just saying it is the way it is. If your meaningless downvotes make you feel better about Pittsburgh or Minny, go ahead.
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False ProphetAll-Star
914 days ago
Score 0+-
but how long will those fans be around? If NY falls off the map, those fans stop caring. IF MN falls off the map, the fans still care. Unless you have hardcore fans, a league will not be successful
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JuTMSY4Legend
914 days ago
Score -1+-
I know this is hard to believe, but New York actually isn;t the center of the universe...go figure! You say people don't give a damn about Lebron in NY and I say that is bull...I live in boston right now and I was born outside of philly, not only do my friends from home talk about lebron, but all we've been watching for the last 2 weeks is lebron...A lot of NY transplants here are interested...he's a marketable player, like wade, kobe, carmello and so on...people, all people will watch them...FP is right, duncan is good but not marketable...
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JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 0+-
Once again, you are making my point. Leagues need fans to draw marketing to fund broadcasting to fund more marketing to fund more growth to fund more attention to fund more dollars. My point is that if NY sucks, weak leagues (IE the NHL) are going to have problems. The NBA is feeling the hurt right now because of it too. Your heart is in the right place. Hardcore fans SHOULD matter. Unfortunately, Casual fairweather fans make a league survive. The hardcore fans never left baseball. It was the fairweather fans that came back (for whatever reason) in the late 90s. Those people are the ones who keep the league alive. NY just has way more of them.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
914 days ago
Score 0+-
I don't think Minnesota is the answer, but NY isn't the end all answer either...you need to see good teams in Philly, NY, Boston, Chicago and so on...big markets with rivalries and then big players (and marquee canadian teams like someone said)...The pens being good, will be good for overall marketing as well, because of crosby, like the caps and ovechkin...and so on...
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 0+-
Just, you just name the large market teams (I'd argue philly is NOT one of them.) And you're right about NY not being the center of the universe. but to 1 out of 13 Americans it is. And that's my point.
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JuTMSY4Legend
914 days ago
Score 0+-
Ok, but you said the NFL doesn't count...we all agree the NFL is the most powerful league and yet both NY teams are good at best...and they're one and done teams...they suck really...baseball has remained the same for the past 15 years or so (one NY team is good) and in basketball they've sucked...the Nets have been decent...that's it... You're taking away points because you just disagree...i don't get that...
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False ProphetAll-Star
914 days ago
Score 0+-
but again, you have nothing to build off of if you don't have the hardcore fans. I'm with Ju, but to a wider scale. Market in Boston, Minny, Detroit, Chicago, Philly, all the northern cities with a hockey history. Get them to come back to the NHL. They will help the league earn a bit more money. Once they've done that is when they begin marketing to the people who will jump on any bandwagon
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
914 days ago
Score 0+-
Boston is smaller than philly, so you'd have to add them if you're going to argue THey're the 5th largest metro area behind, NY, LA, CHI, and Dallas...explain to me how that isn't big market...
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JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 0+-
I've already stated that the NFL is different because of the number of games. IT is a very very different animal.

And you CAN NOT get hardcore fans without converting the casual.

I'm off to play with my son, but I will finish with this. Reread what I've said. All I've said is that when NY team suck, it hurts their leagues a great deal, and when they are good, it helps the leagues. And that is because of population. That's all I've said.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
914 days ago
Score 0+-
I think we're in the same spot...but NY isnt the end all, we need a few cities...like rangers, flyers and bruins being in it and detroit and chicago fighting and so on...big cities who like hockey...
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 0+-
Didn't say it was the end all. I just think it is a requirement along with other teams.
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False ProphetAll-Star
914 days ago
Score 0+-
totally. The Reason I keep throwing Minny into the list is because it's not a big market, but you will get a hardcore base of fans. Also, the Mineapolis-St. Paul St. Cloud, MN-WI area, is ranked 13th in population by the Census. So it's not like were talking about a small area
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score -1+-
And who is number 1, by a significant multiple? It would take 6 times the population of #16 Minny to get NY according to this:

http://en.wi...olitan_areas

Heck, it would take twice #3's (Chicago) and 1.5 times #2(LA)

Pittsburgh? #22
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
914 days ago
Score 0+-
The rangers would good this year...didn't help hockey...
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JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 0+-
They were mediocre all year, got hot in the last third, and then fell out in the second round. Not good enough. If they were in the finals, people would be screaming about it now. Don't trust me, check with the advertisers.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
914 days ago
Score 3+-
No FP, the reason you keep throwing minneapolis in there is because you're from there ;)
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JuTMSY4Legend
914 days ago
Score 0+-
check with advertisers about lebron being in the finals...same situation...
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JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 1+-
Right. Remember about how much more Money LeBron Gets from Nike if he goes to NY (or LA or Chicago). $100 MILLION DOLLAR BONUS. That tells you what Nike thinks.
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JuTMSY4Legend
914 days ago
Score 0+-
But he's not there right now and people are watching...its not about what he'll do in 2 years (i think?), but how people are reacting now...the NBA would be hurt by a spurs-pistons final, but thanks to the cavs many more of us will watch... Example, i'm a casual basketball fan and i'm only interested if the 76ers are in it, or its worth watching, like lebron...
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JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 1+-
Are people watching? How do the ratings compare to the Bird/Magic years? The Jordan Years? or the years the Knicks were there. I don't have the numbers, but I'd bet you a buck that they are lower on a percentage basis.
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JuTMSY4Legend
914 days ago
Score 0+-
No idea either...but i bet they're higher than bird/magic...i'll give you MJ and maybe what you refer to as "the years the knicks were there" (the knicks were good...and i'm not talking about the times they fought the heat)
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 1+-
Ratings share, as a percentage of population, not hard population? You willing to put your money where your mouth is? You are telling me that you think the LeBron-Spurs finals will do better than an MJ finals, Bird Magic, or even The Knicks Spurs? Do we still have challenges? care to do one?
Permalink
Davis21wylieMVP
914 days ago
Score 3+-
[1]
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JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 0+-
After seeing Davis' link, you still want to make that bet?
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JuTMSY4Legend
914 days ago
Score 0+-
I said, I'll give you MJ, i knew that was the height of the NBA...but aren't neilson ratings based on totals and not %s
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 1+-
No. Market share. as in %. If it were totals, the #s wouldnt be going down, as the population is growing.
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Davis21wylieMVP
914 days ago
Score 1+-
People haven't watched in droves since MJ retired the first time. Recent Finals have had lower ratings than ever, and this year's playoffs aren't changing that trend. I would imagine that LBJ raises to maybe a 10.0... maybe. And that's nothing compared to the league's run from 1982-1998.
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JuTMSY4Legend
914 days ago
Score 0+-
i mean, the spurs are in the finals... But no, I'm not positive that it'll be higher than an 18.9 (for sure) and not so sure about the 15.9 you had w/ magic/bird...no as positive as i am that the twins won't make the playoffs...
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
914 days ago
Score 1+-
See you got me, i didn't know...i wasn't even aware basketball was a sport until 2001...
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 1+-
Pick a number. It'll be the 4th lowest in the last 25 years (since 82)
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 1+-
You just made my argument about the Casual fan. You are either casual, or you are a recent convert to hardcore. What the leagues need more of.
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JuTMSY4Legend
914 days ago
Score 2+-
definitely not a hardcore fan...i really don't like basketball all that much, my 4th/5th favorite sport at best... But the reason i'm paying attention is because of lebron...you made my argument...
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
914 days ago
Score 1+-
and no one is making anyones argument...i hate that saying...
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JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 1+-
No reason to get to semantics now, I figured I'd just help you out :). The point still holds that the ratings for Cleveland San Antonio finals are not going to be good, LeBron or no.
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JuTMSY4Legend
914 days ago
Score 1+-
btw, who have me a minus for admitting i was wrong...that's just cold...
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JuTMSY4Legend
914 days ago
Score 1+-
what's not good? I think we both agree that MJ inflated the ratings, but he also played in chicago, which helped. In lebron's case he'll draw in the usual cleveland and san an fans...from there I think you'll see numbers close to 10, but cetainly not higher than the 12 or 13 threshold...
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
914 days ago
Score -3+-
You morons are stupid. NYC isn't the center of the universe. Its just one city. How about Minny or Wisconsin which would get the whole state to watch!
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JuTMSY4Legend
914 days ago
Score 1+-
And i'm not sure why we're argung about basketball on a hockey thread.
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JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 0+-
Let's pick a number and make a bet. I'll bet it's under 10.2. And AF, read the rest of the debate, you'll get your answer. The entire state of Minny has WAY less people than the NY metro area.
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JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 0+-
I'm out for real now. You want to make that bet, message me. I think I have an opinion to write.
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JuTMSY4Legend
914 days ago
Score 2+-
sure i'll bet its over 10.2...depending on stakes...
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 1+-
I've sent you an email. Let's work it out. Then we'll post an article called "Does LeBron Matter?" or something like that with the details. I'm down for any reasonable wager.
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Davis21wylieMVP
915 days ago
Score 2+-
Hey, I'm just happy Ottawa finally won a game...
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Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
914 days ago
Score 0+-
Absolutely!
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The BeastAAA-er
914 days ago
Score 0+-
I'm not
This user is a Anaheim Ducks fan.
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Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
914 days ago
Score 0+-
It's regarding our challenge. If Ducks win, I win. If Sens win, D21W wins. I'm on your side!
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Pnatt IIJV Squad
915 days ago
Score 0+-
I agree that hockey is one of the most exciting sports there is. It sure beats American stickball an basketball. "Sorry Manny."
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
914 days ago
Score 0+-
NEVER be sorry to me, Pnatt! Dammit! Feel what you have to feel and I'll deal with it!
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Taytay 24All-American
914 days ago
Score 2+-
I'm tired of complaints about Versus. Yes, it was a bad move for the NHL because of lack of exposure, but the jokes about not being able to find Versus even when you get the channel are old--it's been two years, people. It's called a TV guide--if you want to watch hockey, figure it out. What the NHL needed to do was get their games on a regular network, at least after football season. ESPN would have been better than Versus, but nothing beats NBC/ABC/CBS/Fox for exposure.
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JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 1+-
I disagree. ESPN is where people go when they want to watch sports but don't care what. Casual fans might wander over. ESPN's coverage is also consistently better.
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
914 days ago
Score 0+-
The NHL should be on its hand and knees thanking Versus for even paying to put its product on television when no other network will.
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Taytay 24All-American
914 days ago
Score -1+-
But not everyone has cable, so not everyone gets ESPN. Ratings for cable channels are significantly lower than standard TV channels.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
914 days ago
Score 0+-
Not everyone that has cable KNOWS what Versus is...
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Taytay 24All-American
913 days ago
Score 1+-
That's what I'm talking about, Manny. It's been two years--it was good for a chuckle at the beginning, but by now, someone needs to pick up a TV Guide and figure it out. It isn't that hard.
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Anonymous Fanatic #2
914 days ago
Score -2+-
We lost intrest here. Does Chicago have a pro hockey team? Or at least one better than the Wolves? Who the fuck cares? Other than Detroit in the midwest. OTTAWA? Give me a break! The WILD? Someone outside of Minn. name 1 player. Hockey belongs in Canada until the U.S. decides they had enough of over priced athletes who break the law all the time and bitch about being underpaid. Who the hell is Stanley anyway? It looks more like a bowl than a cup. Major networks wont pay as long as there are teams like the Blackhawks in the league. I'm talking to you Bill Wirtz!


Just another Chicago fan checking in.

Sean McCarthy
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Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
914 days ago
Score 3+-
Lord Stanley was a member of the British aristocracy. When the Brits showed Canada hockey, they loved it, and when he was in England he got someone in Sheffield to make the Cup that would do on to bear his name. When he popped back to Canada, he basically said, have an ice hockey tournament, and the winner will get the Cup. That's who Stanley is.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
914 days ago
Score -2+-
There you go folks... learn yourself something new today!
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Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
914 days ago
Score 0+-
Hockey is the best sport the USA has. The problem is, its major fan base is in Canada and Eastern Europe.

I think it's good for Hockey to sneak through unnoticed. In Britain there are a lot of sports like that, but all survive financially. The games are a lot more sporting too, and generally the players that play them are much better people too. They all earn a decent wage, not A-Rod proportions, but they can still live off it.

Cricket in this country was our sort of summer sport, everyone watched some of it in some capacity over a summer. But then the ECB chose money and went for Sky, which alienated half of the British population. I.e. they couldn't see it. I was gutted by that. The ECB claimed it could pump money into the sport, to get players more coaching etc. However they failed to see that there would be huge reductions in these players, because half of their audience couldn't see them. I think English cricket may suffer in a decade or so because of it. Similarly, hockey might go the same way in the US. We could see a NHL with very few US people in it. Which if most other sports in the US are anything to go by, means that it will spell the end.
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False ProphetAll-Star
914 days ago
Score 0+-
Its all about perspective. Depending on who you are, you could think any of american sports are the best. I think Lacrosse is the best American sport, but I'm pretty biased.
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Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
914 days ago
Score 1+-
Yeah, absolutely. But in my opinion, the most entertaining sport is hockey.
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JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 2+-
Interestingly, if you take a look at attendance numbers:

http://sport...l/attendance

The numbers are generally static before and after the strike. No major changes.
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
914 days ago
Score 1+-
Something of interest regarding the so-called Minnesota hockey market. What is not being mentioned here is apparently this area LOST a franchise due to owner and fan disinterest. The team was called the North Stars. Nobody care then about this franchise and perhaps outside of a just a few fanatics, who really cares about their new team "The Wild"? This sport is dead due to the television viewing ratings and no network wants to carry this product. Hell, NBC is only carrying some games because of a profit sharing arrangement with the NHL.
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
914 days ago
Score -2+-
Stop hating you Chicago nut!
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
914 days ago
Score 3+-
I've said nothing that is not true. This North Stars franchise moved to Dallas due to general fan disinterest and a reluctant owner unwilling to stay in that Minnesota market. The team moved to Dallas. And the league in its infinite wisdom chose to reward this market another franchise - The Wild. This has done absolutely nothing in terms of improving either the league's overall popularity or its inept tv ratings. Hell, the league even lost its long term broadcasting partners with ESPN/ABC and Fox walked away from this sport as well. NBC paid nothing up front to broadcast any of these games. Whatever money is generated (has there been any?) is to be shared between the network and the league. The NHL is the laughingstock of all professional sports. When NBC voluntarily switches its programming from an NHL playoff game to PREVIEWING a horse race (an event that generates nearly 5 times the viewing audience), it is time to call a spade a spade and accept that as of right now, the general viewing American public could care a less about the NHL let alone one singular franchise in Minnesota. No hate here. Just facts.
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The BeastAAA-er
914 days ago
Score 3+-
I can't believe I am agreeing with you.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
914 days ago
Score -1+-
The fact is that the OWNER of the team moved the North Stars because Dallas had a better, more profitable market... NOT because they couldn't be sustained. SAME reason the Minneapolis Lakers left...

Now go ahead and BLAST the Los Angeles Dodgers and San Francisco Giants for DOING THE EXACT SAME THING... thought so, Champ.

Tyrone Briggs, Captain of taking HALF of a fact and painting a BROAD picture to cover everything THEN taking ALL of the credit for skewing "the facts"...
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
913 days ago
Score 0+-
That's kind of odd, I really thought this discussion thread was focussed on the NHL television ratings, especially in markets considered conducive for hockey.
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The BeastAAA-er
914 days ago
Score -2+-
Josh-ass: NYC may have a bucnh of people, but Minny has more hockey fans.
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The BeastAAA-er
914 days ago
Score -2+-
Joshkrass my bad. Anyways. AF makes a some-what good point. Minnesota would help to have a team because they would all watch. Its the hockey state and it is fairly decent in size and population.
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
914 days ago
Score 1+-
I admit, I'm not a follower of the NHL or hockey in general. However, from what I have read regarding the Minnesota - hockey connection is that it is much stronger in its NCAA base and amateur levels. Is it not fair to say that it might compare somewhat to some North Carolina being a stronger market for NCAA basketball rather than the NBA?
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False ProphetAll-Star
914 days ago
Score 0+-
the problem with the wild is their marketing is shit, and they lost a lot of cred by threatening to move again. Give them another decent season, and by the midway point, the Xcel energy center will be packed game in and game out. Thank you beast, that's what I've been trying to say. Minny may not have a huge audience, but if you get them to care, almost everyone will. There's no competeition for pro sports. The Vikings are done by January, and the Wolves suck. It's a wide open market for thhe wild
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
914 days ago
Score 1+-
"If Minny, Detroit, Boston, and New york (regardless of team) have success, those markets watch. They don't even need marketing because they like hockey to begin with. Then, once you've secured the Northern markets can you worry about other major cities. - FALSE PROPHET" So what is it FP, does Minnesota need to market or not? Do you even bother to maintain a consistent thought pattern or do you just type whatever argument presents the best options for you? Attendance in Minnesota appears to be on the decline and NOW you BLAME "poor" marketing as THE EXCUSE after previously writing on this post that this team "does not need" to market? Huh? Very few people outside this demographic even care about the Wild or hockey in general.
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False ProphetAll-Star
914 days ago
Score -1+-
poor marketing killed the wild in their early years. They were regarded as fakes because if the fans weren't happy, they threatened to move like the North Stars did. SO we shut up, and stopped caring. Now, they are giving us a team that actually works. Their popularity and recgonition as a team that cares at all as brought fans back into the Xcel energy center.
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
914 days ago
Score -2+-
Flip-Flop.
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JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 0+-
Minnesota population = 5 million. New York City Metro Area according to the link above? 18+ million. Learn to read before you go spouting about it, dicknozzle. Even if everyone in Minny was a fan (they lost their team didn't they?) NY is still a more important market to the NHL than Minny. Sorry charlie. Take some business classes in college while you are there.
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The BeastAAA-er
914 days ago
Score 0+-
I doubt all 18+ million watch but I bet 4 mill watch in Minny! I bet less than even 4 mill care a shit about hockey in NYC. They got their heads up Jeter's ass.
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JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 2+-
Since you saw the Mets logo, you should have at least said something about Reyes. Look at the attendance numbers. Get me some TV ratings. The point is very simple. In Minny, you can not get more than 5 million viewers. In New York, your cap is 18 million. LA is more important to Hockey. Chicago is more important to hockey. We're talking about the success of the league, not success of the sport. There is a difference.
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
914 days ago
Score 1+-
Is it possible to look up the ratings for each city?
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JoshkrossDraft Pick
914 days ago
Score 2+-
Been trying to find them

I did find this. Look at the ratings in 95-96 http://www.s...om/node/1131

Right after the Rangers won and were still good.
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
914 days ago
Score 1+-
I'm looking as well but cannot find anything broken down per city. Will let you know what I find (if anything).
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Taytay 24All-American
913 days ago
Score 2+-
Well this has been everywhere since my original comment. Guess that's what I get for sleeping and going to work.

My original point was about getting ratings for a Stanley Cup Final. I don't question that Minnesota would sell out the arena for a couple Finals games. Any city that didn't shouldn't have a franchise. And I'm not just talking about how many people in the state will watch on TV. To really draw in the ratings, the teams involved have to be able to draw in fans across the country and ideally across the globe. Minnesota doesn't do that. Ratings-wise, the best possible matchup for the league would be Rangers/Red Wings. Personally, I hate both of those teams. But they bring in the ratings, and not just in NY and Detroit.

That doesn't mean that Minny (or anywhere else) is a bad market, or that the fans are bad, or that good players don't come from there. Just means they don't generate top ratings across all markets.
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
914 days ago
Score 2+-
"Beyond that, Hockey won't succeed unless they can conquer the markets that are natural hockey markets. If Minny, Detroit, Boston, and New york (regardless of team) have success, those markets watch. They don't even need marketing because they like hockey to begin with. Then, once you've secured the Northern markets can you worry about other major cities. - FP"" FP and a few others make mention of a NY bias and how superior the so-called MN hockey market is compared to other cities. Bullfeathers. According to ESPN, MN attendance has slid since last season and is practically dead even compared to NY Rangers (which somewhat shares its market with 2 other franchises) in avg. attendance (18,470 to 18,200). Wow, a big difference of 270 people. More people attend games in Tampa Bay (now there must be a huge hockey market, huh?) than this much beloved Wild franchise.
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False ProphetAll-Star
914 days ago
Score -1+-
may I ask why you see it necessary to attack Manny and myself? What have either of us done to deserve you trolling? Or your attacks against us?
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
914 days ago
Score 0+-
You flip-flop, get called out and then whine about "trolling"?
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
914 days ago
Score -2+-
How many players in the NHL have come from Minny and how many have come from NYC and tell me which market is TRULY important to the NHL... Ratings shmatings... WHERE do the PLAYERS come from???
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JoshkrossDraft Pick
913 days ago
Score 1+-
Frankly, this wasn't a troll. And Manny, the only thing the keeps the league in existence is the $$that pays for it. The NHL is a disaster and it's because NY, Chicago, and LA all suck donkey balls.
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Pnatt IIJV Squad
913 days ago
Score -2+-
I've decided to stop bashing baseball but seriously, don't people care more about who wins the Stanley Cup than whether the San Antonio Spuds or Seattle Super Suckers win the NBA championship??
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JuTMSY4Legend
913 days ago
Score 2+-
Unfortunetly not...
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Taytay 24All-American
913 days ago
Score 2+-
You've stopped bashing baseball and are replacing it with basketball, it seems?
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Pnatt IIJV Squad
913 days ago
Score 1+-
Gary Bettman is still in office?? No wonder why no one cares about the NHL no more!
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Davis21wylieMVP
913 days ago
Score 4+-
I actually gave this a plus, because Bettman should have been canned years ago. Talk about running the league into the ground... Besides, he bears a striking resemblance to this guy: count.jpg
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Pnatt IIJV Squad
913 days ago
Score 1+-
Yeah I know! Is that some type of muppet version of Dracula??
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Davis21wylieMVP
913 days ago
Score 2+-
It's Count Von Count.
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Pnatt IIJV Squad
913 days ago
Score 1+-
Mmm I used to watch Sesame Street, sometimes. Don't quite recall that guy though. But anyway yeah, he does bear a striking resemblance to Gary Bettman. Just look at those eyebrows, bigger than mine!
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The BeastAAA-er
913 days ago
Score 0+-
Oh, and I thought that he was the commish.
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Pnatt IIJV Squad
913 days ago
Score 1+-
It could have a lot to do with the two teams in it.
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Pnatt IIJV Squad
913 days ago
Score 1+-
A minus for this?? Come on. Ok, maybe my last comment deserved a minus but certainly not this.
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