Who is Mr. Clutch?

A-rod hasn't had a clutch hit in a big game his whole career.

THe A-rod phenomenom is very tricky. I've often seen and been involved in these debates. A-Rod is more clutch than people give him credit for (Say he comes throuhg in a 2-1 game versus the Angels, or bluejays, you get my drift), but at the same time, when the big moment is spotlighted (Red sox comes to mind) he seems a little bit smaller. I think the more in plays in NY, the more debated this will be, but also he may seem clutch.

well thats why i wrote "big game"...a game against the angels is never big

Yeah, I mean, A-Rod only single-handedly led the Yankees to beat the Twins in the 2004 ALDS... he hasn't had a clutch hit in a big game his whole career!

papi came through against the angels in 2004...that was a pretty big game.

and yes, arod helped beat the twins, but they're the twins. a-rod went huge in games 1-3 of the alcs that year too. and when the dust had settled he went something like 2-17 in the last 4 games, including a wonderful 1-15 stint in the final 3.

meanwhile, ortiz went 6-19 with 3 homers and 9 rbi

What do you mean "they're the twins?" They sent Johan Santana(2.61 ERA) and Brad Radke(3.48 ERA) to the mound, not to mention some very strong relief pitchers.

The problem with "clutch" is that a person remembers a few big moments and forgets everything else. Until the numbers show any proof of clutch, I'll believe it. Ortiz comes through in a lot of big spots, but he is given a lot of chances to come through and he comes through all the time wether or not the game is on the line. The man is great, the ending of today's game was fantastic, and if clutch exists, that's the guy...but there's still no actual proof. So I don't buy it.

Amen, Sammich.

This conversation always starts and stops at David Ortiz, with some A-Rod bashing mixed in, but it's basically all the same. It's like there are no other players in the league making terrific plays when the game is on the line. Not to detract any value from anybody's opinion, but I really hate the topic of clutch for those simple reasons.

Please look this up:

1 - 3 inning 4 - 6 7 - 9 Who has performed best in these groups with runners in scoring position? My guess arod wins the first group, flip a coin for the second group and ortiz easily in the third group. do the same for home runs hit in the groupings == also, look at the what a homerun had on the score of the game (did the HR make it 10-2 or 4-3? Ortiz easily wins this!

==

the whole clutch thing can be debated till your blue in the face, but the anti-clutch is real and the writer is on target saying that Sosa was horrible in these situations. I always remember him striking out in the 9th with a man or two on.

Actually. I seem to remember a story on ESPN Page 2 about ortiz being clutch. Turned out that he was effective, but not as much as you think. They suggested, however, that in the very big moments, he was (I.E. 2004 AlCS). However, int he average game, he was decent, but nothing more than a good player in a big situation. If i had insider access, I could probably find the article w/ stats. They also cited the best player in the clutch was someone who you wouldn't have suspected. I'd like to point out "Big Game" is very debatable. Let's say A-ROd always comes up big except agains tthe sox (i think this is actually close to the truth), is he clutch then? hard to say, since the yankees usually need to be the sox the most. think AF's suggest (That was me, i forgot to sign in) was that A-Rod is more clutch than people think, its just that his big moments aren't on national TV. But if you'd like to debate that getting a big hit at the end of the game when your team needs it isn't clutch, I'd welcome the debate. I think my point is, both players are clutch, but ortiz seems to react better in national moments, he loves the lights, whereas A-Rod is the opposite, getting hits when needed, but maybe against just a regular team. There are stats to support this, unfortunetly, I don't have access to them and don't have the time to find them. Just have faith and -1 me, as i'm sure a lot with disagree...haha

I think it's just a matter of what stats you look at. I remember an article from last year when the MVP debate was going on. Ortiz stepped up more in the 9th, but in games against their biggest competitors (the other 3 teams to make the playoffs) Rodriguez stepped up more. We just remember Ortiz's moments more because they stand out more. Yesterday's game is one that I'm going to remember for a while because he did it in the very last at bat. But he was also up in the 7th with a man on. A home run there could've tied it. That was a pretty clutch situation. And he flied out. If he would've hit that homer in the 7th to tie it it would've been just as big, but we wouldn't remember it in a couple of months the way we'll remember it now. It's all just a matter of timing and perception. But like Enybo said, this can be argued til we're all blue in the face and no one will change their minds. Either way the game was great and Ortiz is the man

Great point Steak. You pretty much said what I was trying to and couldn't. and If you can find those stats for a-rod that'd be cool. Personally, I think both a great players, but Ortiz gets too much credit and a-rod not enough.

Why do people bash someone if they hit a HR in a 12-1 game? I realize the HR won't change the game much, but would you like them to stop trying and just strikeout since the game isn't close? Also, lets say ARod, or any other player, hits extremely well in the first 5 innings and then performs worse in the last few innings. Wouldn't the good numbers he put up early in the game be valuable, because they help to win the game early and avoid having to hit a walkoff HR?

I never got that either. I mean, I hate to defend Rodriguez, but anyone that says that he's not a good player, doesn't deserve his MVP, or isn't as good as Jeter is an ingnorant fool. Rodriguez hit over 40 homers. Just because he didn't hit one in the 7th game of the World Series doesn't mean that he's not one of the best players in the game today. He helped his team win a lot of games last year and is doing the same this year.

You're right on again. Its a very relative term.

In response to Bball - no, you don't stop hitting in a 12-1 game, but you need to be able to hit in a close game and in big situations as well. My Sosa remark was to say that a 12-1 game was the only time he would ever hit a homer. I also agree with you that numbers in the beginning of the game are just as valuable and guys like A-Rod who aren't neccessarily clutch can still be irreplacable to a team, but he's still not a clutch hitter and that's what the debate is about.

by "they're the twins" comment...look at the breakdown. in 2004 the twins finished with a record of 92-70. tied with anaheim for 3rd best in the AL. the next closet team to the twins? the white sox, who finished 4 games over .500. playing 18 games in a season in the weakest division in the AL doesn't garner much credit in my eyes. yeah, santana had a good season, but it was practically a given that there was going to be a yankees-sox rematch for the pennant. the twins put up a fight, but still went down 3-1 in the series. the twins tried their best to pull a bob gibson and win a series on the arm of one pitcher, but in today's game that's practically impossible. by that i mean, they're the twins. hapless, lovable, and perennial underachievers. they can win the division for the next 20 years, but it doesn't mean much if you get knocked out in the first round (and yes, i'm aware of the angels/twins alcs in 2002)

i take it there's a twins fan on the board, eh?