armchairgm
all sports, all you
+ Add Friends
You are not logged-in.
Sign Up - Log In
Main Page
Sports
Write
Articles
Hot Links
Images
Meet People
Fun
Explore
MLB - NFL - NBA - NHL - College Basketball - College Football - Soccer - Nascar - Other
Article - Locker Room Discussion
All Articles - New Articles - Today's Articles
Submit a Link - Approve Links
Picture Game - Ratings - Polls - Pick Game - Quiz Game - Spring Silliness
Random Page - Random Image - Random Fan
Edit
Page history Discuss pageWhat links here

Who's Number Three?

16
Vote

by user DNL

It's clear that Michigan and Ohio State University are the top two teams in college football. But who is #3? A look at the AGM user poll results suggests Florida, by a slim margin over USC (10 vote margin) and Rutgers (14).

This year, the #3 question is even more interesting, with #1 and #2 playing each other this week to close our their regular season. The winner of the race for third will, absent a Michigan/OSU tie or a rematch, have a shot at a national title.

AGM voters had four different schools in the 3-hole, Florida, USC, Rutgers, and Arkansas. These three team were, respectively, third through six in the AGM poll.

I took a look at all sixteen ballots to see if there was anything interesting when you shook up the data. Pleasantly, there was something -- something that lends credence to the mantra that all too often, when in doubt, voters (ourselves included) take the "big name" over other factors.

Take a look at the collective balloting results for the four schools mentioned:

Florida

  • No. 3 -- seven ballots
  • No. 4 -- five ballots
  • No. 5 -- one ballot
  • No. 6 -- one ballot
  • No. 7 -- one ballot
  • No. 8 -- one ballot
  • Average rank: 4.2
  • Standard deviation: 1.56
  • Median rank: 4th

USC

  • No. 3 -- three ballots
  • No. 4 -- four ballots
  • No. 5 -- six ballots
  • No. 6 -- one ballot
  • No. 8 -- two ballots
  • Average rank: 4.6
  • Standard deviation: 1.57
  • Median rank: 5th

Rutgers

  • No. 3 -- four ballots
  • No. 4 -- two ballots
  • No. 5 -- five ballots
  • No. 6 -- one ballot
  • No. 8 -- four ballots
  • Average rank: 5.2
  • Standard deviation: 1.91
  • Median rank: 5th

Arkansas

  • No. 3 -- two ballots
  • No. 4 -- two ballots
  • No. 5 -- four ballots
  • No. 6 -- four ballots
  • No. 7 -- one ballot
  • No. 9 -- one ballot
  • No. 10 -- one ballot
  • No. 11 -- one ballot

Average rank: 5.9 Standard deviation: 2.33 Median rank: 5.5th

Average rank is another way of looking at any one team's poll result, relative to the rest of the teams voted for. So it shouldn't surprise you that Arkansas' is the worst while Florida's is the be8st. Rather, that is necessarily true.

What is somewhat surprising, though, is the standard deviations. Florida and USC have virtually identical ones. Rutgers' is larger, suggesting that voters disagree significantly as to how to place them. Arkansas's is even worse, reflecting a scatter-shot take from the (statistically insignificant) pool of voters.

Yet the inescapable conclusion is that the divide between "record voters" and "strength of schedule" voters (a/k/a/ "name" voters) is real and demonstrable.

Two other interesting factoids center around Notre Dame. First, there's another question about standard deviation. Being blown out by Michigan means that the highest the Irish appear on anyone's ballot is #4 (twice), and one person had ND at #13 (??). This gives the Golden Domers an average rank of 6.9, a median of 7, and a standard deviation of 2.06.

But take out that 13 and make it a 7 (the median) -- and the Notre Dame standard deviation plummets to 1.26. That is, with one exception, the ArmchairGM community thinks that Notre Dame is "right" in or around the 7th slot.

Yet Wisconsin -- who faced, to date, a schedule similar to ND's and whose only loss is to the same Michigan squad that beat Notre Dame -- has a an average of 11.75, a mean of 11, and a standard deviation of 3.53. They're all over the place. Remove their lowest rank (17th) and replace it with the median (11th), and the standard deviation falls only to 3.24. Crazy.

Oh, the other factoid? Only one voter had Wisconsin over Notre Dame.

Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
JoebookRed-Shirting
1089 days ago
Score 0+-
Nice read DNL --- My thought is that if Notre Dame beats USC, they play for the title, provided that Florida loses a game. If not, it's the winner Saturday vs. Florida for the title.
Did anyone think of putting together a college hoops AGM poll?
Permalink | Reply
Anonymous Fanatic #1
1089 days ago
Score 0+-
I think ND would get it over Fl in that situation, pollsters tend to rank ND v. high. But to be clear, USC has to beat both Cal and UCLA, if not then the SOS would deteriorate and I could see Fl getting in. If Fl also loses then it gets interesting and you have to consider Ark, the loser of Michigan-Ohio St or the winner of WVA-Rutgers. Slim chances, but chances nonetheless.
Permalink
Anonymous Fanatic #2
1089 days ago
Score 0+-
I disagree w/ that. If Michigan loses tomorrow at Ohio State, and Notre Dame wins out, I find it hard to believe that voters would put Notre Dame ahead of Michigan considering the whooping Michigan put on them in week 3.
Permalink
Sports Writer06Waterboy
1089 days ago
Score 0+-
anon fan 2 was me
Permalink
DouglasvgibbsWaterboy
1088 days ago
Score 0+-
If USC beats Notre Dame, UCLA or Cal beats USC, West Virginia beats Rutgers, and Arkansas wins the SEC Championship against Florida after beating LSU and MS State, guess what? The Arkansas Razorbacks are in the National Championship Game. They've come a long way since that first game loss to USC. Granted, a lot of things need to happen, but look at what happened last weekend with four top ten losses. Who would have believed it possible in a million years?
Permalink | Reply
False ProphetAll-Star
1088 days ago
Score 0+-
#3 is Rutgers if they are Undefeated. If not, it should be Wisconsin for being 11-1 with a loss to Michigan.
Permalink | Reply
False ProphetAll-Star
1088 days ago
Score 0+-
or Florida if they Finnish with one loss
Permalink
ASwaffAll-American
1088 days ago
Score 0+-
Why would it not be 11-1 Michigan with a loss to Ohio State? I don't believe in punishing teams based on when they lose. A loss is a loss. We shouldn't treat one loss differently than another just because it happened in week 13 instead of week 4.
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
1088 days ago
Score 0+-
I believe that the winner of the OSU/Mich game is the National champion, and the looser is the second best team this year. Thats why I don't have the Looser at No 3
Permalink
ASwaffAll-American
1088 days ago
Score 0+-
So, you think the top three teams in the nation should be Big 10 teams? You've got to be kidding. That's completely absurd.
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
1088 days ago
Score 0+-
Also, I stick with being the only one to put Wisconsin ahead of Notre Dame. Wisconsin played Michigan well, and played a good Big 10 Schedule. Notre Dame got Killed my Michigan, and has played a cupcake schedule. It's just that everyone has hyped Notre Dame So much that they won't let them fall.
Permalink | Reply
ASwaffAll-American
1088 days ago
Score 0+-
Notre Dame played a cupcake schedule? I'm no schill for Notre Dame, not by a long shot. But Georgia Tech, Penn Sate, Michigan, Michigan State, UCLA and USC is not a cupcape schedule. And three of those six games are road games.
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
1088 days ago
Score 0+-
Penn St. and MST. Are not good opponents, and they haven't played USC, so we'll see how that goes
Permalink
ASwaffAll-American
1088 days ago
Score 0+-
You mean they're not great opponents. But, they're not pushovers. That looks like a pretty tough schedule to me. Jeff Sagarin has them at the 22nd toughest schedule in the country. Michigan - 30th.
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
1088 days ago
Score 0+-
Penn St. is an OK team at best, but MSU is 1-6!!! That is not even close to a competeitive opponent. USC hasn't played them so that should be thrown out as well. Now they have UCLA, GA Tech, and USC as good Oppenents, Michigan has played MN, Wisconsin, Ohio St., and ND. How they give ND a higher SOS is beyond me.
Permalink
ASwaffAll-American
1088 days ago
Score 0+-
Well, just as the equation for Notre Dame didn't include USC, the equation for Michigan didn't include OSU. So, you throw that one out.


But, I think the biggest problem is that you're only looking at their top opponents, and not their opponents as a whole. The overall record of Notre Dame's opponents is 60-47. The overall record of Michigan's opponents is 67-60. Michigan has played six teams that are .500 or worse, Notre Dame has played five. And then you have to look at how they're helped or hurt by their opponents' opponents.

Michigan played 7-4 Central Michigan. They get helped by that 7-4 record, but hurt by the weak schedule CMU plays. Same thing with 4-7 Ball State. On the other hand, the weak teams that Notre Dame has played have tough conferences with tough schedules. They played 4-8 Michigan State, 1-9 Stanford, and 2-9 North Carolina.

That's why Notre Dame's schedule is ranked higher. It'll drop after playing Army today. But, the point is, you can't just look at the best teams that a particular school has played. You also have to look at the worst.
Permalink
Add your Comment
ArmchairGM welcomes all comments. If you don't want to be anonymous, Register or Login. It's free


Retrieved from "http://armchairgm.wikia.com/Who%27s_Number_Three%3F"

This page was last modified 01:25, 17 November 2006. Content is available under the GFDL.

Categories: Opinions | College Football Opinions | University of Southern California Opinions | University of Florida Opinions | University of Notre Dame Opinions | University of Wisconsin Opinions | University of Arkansas Opinions | Rutgers University Opinions | AGMVC Opinions | November 16, 2006 | Opinions by User DNL

Contribute

ArmchairGM's pages can be edited.
Is this page incomplete? Is there anything wrong?
Change it!

Edit this page Discuss this page Page history

Recent contributors to this page

The following people recently contributed to this article.

Embed this on your site

Main Page About Special Pages Help Terms of Use Advertise