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Water Cooler:PEDs in baseball revisited


I read two interesting, and often conflicting, articles about Major League Baseball and PEDs this morning. NPR has a commentary about fan apathy towards PEDs, focusing on Manny Ramirez and Alex Rodriguez. MLB.com has an opinion piece taking the same situation as evidence that fans (and other players) do still care, therefore keeping those two players out of the All Star Game.

As the MLB article points out, fans and players did keep Manny and A-Rod out. However, I have my doubts it was because of PEDs. I think it had more to do with a lack of playing time (Manny) and relatively poor performance (A-Rod). After all, Manny's return has been a celebration of sorts. Of course, Josh Hamilton was voted in despite limited PT and sub-par performance, but perhaps he is such a compelling story that the fans voted for him anyway.

Personally, I have always thought most fans didn't really care about PEDs. We don't get mad at them for using PEDs, but for not keeping it secret and destroying our illusion of their natural abilities. Most fans, I think, would prefer adopting a "don't ask / don't tell" policy similar to gays in the military. But even that, I think, is eroding into pure apathy. I'm not sure why this is. Are we really tired of the story, or were we beaten down by the coverage?

Steroids and other PEDs were the hot topic for quite a while, but it has been relatively quiet recently, giving us all a chance to reflect and re-evaluate. Any new thoughts? Where do you stand regarding PEDs in baseball? What do you think the "average" fan thinks about it now?

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JuTMSY4Legend
160 days ago
Score 2+-
I have to think that the same fans who buy "family four packs" are the same ones who didn't care about spitballs, files on caps, or shit on Kenny Rogers's hand.

That being said, the bulk of people on this site and every other sports fan populated site, as well as perhaps the majority of Sportscenter watchers, do indeed care.

I definitely care, but I think the rules are really baffling. Basically, there's two issues here for me: 1) I don't want anyone to have an advantage over other players 2) I don't think its fair for other players to be forced into making relatively dangerous decisions in order to compete.

Sure, Joe Schmoe can popped roids from a personal freedom perspective, but by doing that in his sport, he practically forces others to do it (en masse). Being a baseball player should be shrunken testes and being unable to walk by age 60 (or dead).
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JuTMSY4Legend
160 days ago
Score 1+-
EDIT: Being a baseball player shouldn't mean shrunken testes and being unable to walk by age 60 (or dead).
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Taytay 24All-American
160 days ago
Score 2+-
Do the crime, do the time? Isn't this the flip side of the meritocracy you occasionally champion?
Of course, I realize PEDs are inherently in opposition to a meritocracy. But I wouldn't think you would be opposed to the side effects of users.
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JuTMSY4Legend
160 days ago
Score 1+-
Heh. I'll do my best to keep politics out of this, but...

The fans ability and willingness to apply morality (beliefs or what have you) as a standard for being in the MLB seems to be an important part of the meritocracy. And you can see how that effects everything else in the game (from jersey or ticket sales or crowning world champions)

Again, under the anti-trust guise of MLB, things are much different. Who knows - what if we had 2 leagues: one with PEDs and one without. I wonder who would watch which?

But the fact of the matter is, you can perceive the ripple effect here which suggests that its not longer simply a personal choice.
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Taytay 24All-American
160 days ago
Score 1+-
Very interesting question with the two leagues. Clearly each would have an adamant and vocal segment of the population, and everyone else would fall somewhere in between. Of those, I'm not sure which would pull in the most numbers. I suspect that PED-free would win the immediate battle, but PED-users would win the war.
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Davis21wylieMVP
160 days ago
Score 3+-
I remember an old labor economics class I took where we talked about more dangerous work being worth more money... That is, all else being equal (and it never is outside of these classroom examples, but still), it's harder to find people willing to go down into a coal mine than it is to find people willing to do equivalent work (in terms of their skills/education/etc.) above ground, so the mining companies have to offer extra to try and entice people to do their dangerous work. Baseball players today are incredibly well-paid, and in no small part because of the boom in tickets during the steroid era. So maybe PED use, to whatever extent it still happens (and we all know it does), is just an "occupational hazard" of being a baseball player these days? (Now, the coal mining/baseball example deliberately ignores the fact that the labor market for baseball players is, in terms of the entire population, ridiculously competitive and the market for coal miners is, well, not. But still...)
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
160 days ago
Score 2+-
That's a really interesting point. But ballplayers are presented with a choice to take PEDs, whereas coal miners have no choice to avoid danger while remaining in that occupation. And I think that's where the idea comes from of punishing people who choose to take the risk as an effort to dissuade them from the risk.
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JuTMSY4Legend
160 days ago
Score 2+-
Plus, its about the game of baseball not an "arms race" in terms of who can acquire or create the best PEDs to build the best players. Besides, in the most simplified terms, if everyone's on PEDs wouldn't the results still be the same? Al advantages lead to players still be equal and more unhealthy than before?
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Taytay 24All-American
160 days ago
Score 2+-
"Besides, in the most simplified terms, if everyone's on PEDs wouldn't the results still be the same? Al advantages lead to players still be equal and more unhealthy than before?"
The outcomes (ie, winning/losing) should be about the same, but it presents a very different (and generally more exciting) from of entertainment for the fans--"Chicks did the long ball". More fans = more money...you know how the story goes from there.
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JuTMSY4Legend
160 days ago
Score 1+-
It pitchers pitch faster (?) and hitters swing harder (again, ?) should that even out too? I was just making a generalization anyway, but yeah (ugh), I agree
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Taytay 24All-American
160 days ago
Score 1+-
If everyone is on PEDs, I don't think it equals out to the same game. Rather, I think everything would be amplified. Sure, there would be more strikeouts, but when a batter does connect, it is more likely to leave the park. Even balls that stay on the field will be hit harder, and faster runners should equal more scoring. Add it all up, and the game would move slightly in the direction of a highlight reel.
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
160 days ago
Score 2+-
Fielding would probably get worse, because everyone would have reduced flexibility due to all their muscles.
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
160 days ago
Score 2+-
Apathy goes both ways. Or rather, doesn't go in either way. In general, fans might be apathetic about Manny's PED usage, but that apathy was matched by their apathy toward his suspension. There weren't any protests, or any demonstrations about it. The only people upset were Dodgers fans who were losing his bat for 50 games.
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JuTMSY4Legend
160 days ago
Score 2+-
Remember how crazy/defensive SF fans were over Bonds?
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Davis21wylieMVP
160 days ago
Score 3+-
I wonder how defensive they'd be now, though, as the team is succeeding without him? I always felt like they were so defensive simply because they saw him as their only chance of being competitive. Now that they're competitive without him, does that change the way he's viewed there?
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Taytay 24All-American
160 days ago
Score 1+-
Good point, Rawb, it's one I thought but didn't make explicit in my original post. I really think most people just really don't care at all anymore. And as Jut points out, it is certainly a much different response than we got from SF just a couple of years ago.
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
160 days ago
Score 2+-
When there's a smoking gun like a drug test, it's hard to argue against suspensions and asteriskizing things.
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JuTMSY4Legend
160 days ago
Score 2+-
I'm surprised Manny hasn't jumped in here to talk about Greenies yet...
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
160 days ago
Score 0+-
... Greenies.
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