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The Tribe and their (lack of) Attendance

13
Vote

by user Benny08302

It seems recently that everyone in Cleveland is talking about the Tribe and their poor attendance figures. Tony Rizzo has devoted a lot of time to the topic, Paul Cousineau and Gary Benz wrote about on the Cleveland Fan and Terry Pluto has also penned an article. The short story is that the Indians are 25th in the majors in home game attendance. That is not good.

Everyone has their own reasons for this, from Cleveland's economy, to Cleveland fans being spoiled with the 90s and (of course) the Dolan's low payroll (you may have heard that it's below Kansas City's!).

Now, don't get me wrong, I think the lack of fan participation isn't simply one single thing but a combination of many forces. That being said, I am a bit surprised that no one has mentioned what I think is one of the main factors in the unwillingness to get behind this Indians team.

The trade of Coco Crisp.

Now, I have no way to prove this, but I think the trade of Coco to the Red Sox for minor league 3rd baseman Andy Marte hurt the Tribe much more than they could've imagined.

After barely missing out of the playoffs in 2005, the Indians come into 2006 by... trading a popular outfielder for a minor league 3rd baseman who no one has heard of. From a baseball stand point, was it a good deal? Meh, neither Crisp nor Marte has lit it up, but the Tribe had Grady Sizemore ready to step in for Crisp. It may not have been the best deal but, from a baseball side, it was defendable.

But not from a public relations side. Tribe fans had just spent the past few seasons watching the team trade away veterans for minor leaguers (when they weren't walking away for more money). This was simply the worst time to trade away a popular figure. The team was starting to come back around and form its own identity and the Tribe trades away a young veteran (with a neat name!) for yet another minor league prospect.

They said it wasn't a cost cutting move, but one believed it. For better or worse, it looked like that the Tribe, again, couldn't afford it's own players and would trade them away for that perpetual 'next year'.

Why should fans come out for this team? They'll fall in love with the regulars but by the time the team is set to make a move, they'll just trade them away because "Dolan is cheap".

Dolan has said that he'll spend the money when the time is right and, from where I'm sitting, that time is now. I've been saying for awhile now, if the Tribe came out tomorrow and offered CC and Hafner fair market deals (just biting the bullet) that Tribe fans would begin to come out to the ballpark.

Is that too simple? Maybe. But I really do think that fans simply don't trust management to do what it has to do in order to win. They see Coco traded away, they see the Tigers trade for Gary Sheffield while the Tribe shops for pitchers off the scrap heap year after year and they see a payroll at the near the bottom of the majors. This team is one of the best teams in baseball, the payroll is, if nothing else, "thrifty" and yet they're still shopping for tainted goods? They can't afford real talent? They're signing guys coming off of surgeries, guys who retire before the year starts?

Do you trust the Dolans to make that signing that puts the team over the top? Do you trust Shapiro to go get that right handed bat? Aren't we all expecting some kind of Matt Lawton/Trot Nixon type deal?

Is it fair? Probably not. Can I prove my little theory? No. Am I blaming their poor attendance solely on this trade? Of course not, there are a ton of other factors. But, for whatever reason, rightly or wrongly, the fans don't trust this team.

I can't blame them.


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JoshkrossDraft Pick
878 days ago
Score 1+-
As a Knicks fan, let me just say that Dolan ownership is terrible for your team.
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Cobras36Red-Shirting
878 days ago
Score 0+-
Just as long as they don't put a FatHead of Dolan in the locker room and start pulling pieces of clothing off it as they win......
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JoshkrossDraft Pick
878 days ago
Score 0+-
I just threw up a little in my mouth.
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Benny08302Soccer Kid
878 days ago
Score 0+-
nobody needs this...
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Kwitt11Varsity Captain
878 days ago
Score 1+-
I really doubt this is the reason Indians fans aren't coming to games. Crisp has been bad in Boston, and Sizemore has become one of the five best players in baseball. This was a great trade by the Indians, as they got younger and picked up talent at a position where they really needed it (though Marte hasn't panned out like we thought he would). All their moves since 2002 have been made with the aim of becoming perennial contenders starting this year, and almost all of their moves have worked.
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Benny08302Soccer Kid
878 days ago
Score 0+-
I'm not saying that this is THE reason that fans aren't showing up. There's a lot of factors, one of which is mistrust of management.

And the trade of Coco for a minor league third baseman (now matter how highly rated) pissed off a lot of people. They barely missed the playoffs in 2005 and fans were expecting the team to go ADD veteran help. Instead they trade away a pretty decent, talented (and fan fav) OF for a prospect.

It helps form the view that the Tribe will always be playing for next year. I'm not saying it was a bad trade, but it hurt from a PR standpoint.
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Kwitt11Varsity Captain
878 days ago
Score 1+-
I think the Indians management has done an excellent job. They were great from the mid-90's until 2001, but they had a lot of old veterans, and they weren't going to be good for much longer. Because they're a mid-market team and can't afford to build their team through free agency, they had to rebuild and look four years down the road or so. They dealt off all their veterans, netting great prospects (Sizemore, Peralta, etc.) in the process, and now they have a great nucleus around which they can contend for the next 5-6 years. If the Indians fans want them to be getting free agents and trading for good veterans every year, they have unrealistic expectations, because the Indians can't afford to do that.
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Benny08302Soccer Kid
878 days ago
Score 0+-
No one here expects them to competing with the payrolls of the Yankees and Red Sox. But Detroit and Minny (and even Chicago) shouldn't be out of the question.

For the past few offseasons the Tribe has gone after the bargain basement relievers. sometimes it works (2005) sometimes it doesn't (2006). But thats what they do. They complain about small markets and how they'll spend when the time is right. Meanwhile, the Tigers are making midseason moves for Sean Casey and picking up Gary Sheffield in the offseason.

People don't expect the team to retain it's talent. People don't expect management to go make that move to put them over the top.

Have they done a good job winning with a low payroll? Of course. They've drafted well, made good trades and have put a competitive team on the field.

But if they want fans to start showing up, they need to make a move that says "we're in it to win NOW"
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I am a cpcpMajor Leaguer
878 days ago
Score 1+-
Interesting thoughts. I think they did lose some interest when they traded Coco, but most fans have forgotten about that now. I don't think it's so much that we were spoiled by the 90s as much as that the Indians aren't the fad anymore, LeBron has turned a lot of sports fans interest to basketball. The only reason I don't go to more games, (I'm still going to at least four this year) is because I moved to Columbus. I used to go to at least six games when I was closer to Cleveland.
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MjsennoWaterboy
878 days ago
Score 2+-
Coco Crisp. You have to be kidding. Letting him walk was a great move by Cleveland, take peak at his Boston numbers. Plus, as mentioned above, they have Sizemore. Did they not sign a veteran like Trot Nixon last season, or trade for Josh Barfield (OK, not exactly bank shattering). What specifically do you want to see them do? Who should they get? Remember, at this point, in July, it costs prospects, not money, to get most players. I think they need bullpen help, but do you want to hand away your best prospects for a rental.
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Benny08302Soccer Kid
878 days ago
Score 0+-
His numbers in Boston are irrelevant. The Tribe was a decent week from making the playoffs and they came out and traded a starting outfielder for a minor league prospect. For some reason the fans took this as a sign that they weren't serious about winning now and that they won't be able to afford their own players so they decided to stay home (Mark Shapiro always complaining about market size hasn't helped either).

The trade cast an entire cloud over the 2006 that they are just now getting out of. Signing the Jason Michaels, Trot Nixons and Dave Delluccis of the world ain't going bring the fans to the ballpark.

What do I want them to do? Go get a right handed bat or any bat for that matter. Make a move that says they in it to win this year.
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I am a cpcpMajor Leaguer
878 days ago
Score 0+-
Coco Crisp's value to the Indians was that he was a fan favorite. We loved his name, we loved his style of play, we loved that he represented a new era of Indians baseball. Sizemore, Crisp, Martinez and Pronk were the faces of our franchise and trading Coco was a kick in the gut for a lot of Indians fans.
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ChristofMVP
878 days ago
Score 0+-
It has been how long since the Indians won a world series? The Indians management should be happy that the fans are staying away, for if they showed up, they may be looking to scalp some heads.
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JuTMSY4Legend
878 days ago
Score 0+-
1946?
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WizardmanRed-Shirting
878 days ago
Score 0+-
1948. It should've been 1997... but that's a rant for another day.
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WizardmanRed-Shirting
878 days ago
Score 0+-
You made some good points in the article. I'm one to say that it's the economy though, I can barely afford to go to games anymore. (I can't afford the nachos at Cavs games :P)
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WoodsmeisterVarsity Captain
877 days ago
Score 1+-
The Indians sold high on Coco Crisp and that's why people don't support the team? What a load of crock. People who don't support the team because they traded Coco Crisp are the kind of fans who come to 1 game a year on Coco Crisp bobblehead day and let their kids run around in the concourse causing trouble.

Sure, it would be nice if more peole came to the games, but in case anyone noticed, it's freakin' cold in Cleveland in April and May. We had 4 games snowed out, including the home opener and three games relocated to Milwaukee. It's a wonder that we're as high as 25th given that we essentially lost 7 games.

People don't come to the games at the same rate as the late 90s because Jacobs Field is no longer the place to see and be seen. Cavs games are the new place to see and be seen. The late 90s were the perfect storm for the Tribe - good team, new field, home-grown star players, and the dismantling of that team left a sour taste in the bandwagoners who didn't know baseball from cricket before the Indians started winning. Coco Crisp was hardly the last straw. Cleveland will support a winner, but few will sit through 40 degree baseball games. The Browns play at home 8 times-of course they sell out. The Indians play at home (theoretically) 81 times and a good third of those are in crappy weather. Why would I sit through a Monday night game in April when I can come see the Yankees in August?
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Benny08302Soccer Kid
877 days ago
Score 0+-
the point isn't Coco Crisp. The point is the offseason after a near playoff birth they traded a starter for a minor leaguer. If the team wasn't going to make a push then, why should the fans show up? It cast a cloud over the entire 2006 season, which they are now just coming out of. And if they really want fans to start coming back, lock up their big names like CC and Hafner, prove to us that they give a crap and will "spend when the time is right"
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WoodsmeisterVarsity Captain
877 days ago
Score 0+-
Yes, the point is Coco Crisp. Yes, they traded a starter, but they made another trade to get another player they thought was ready to start (Michaels). If they had traded another starter (Ben Broussard, Ronnie Belliard), the fan outcry would not have been nearly so intense. People liked Coco Crisp. I do not doubt your assessment that some ill-informed casual fans probably used that excuse to desert a team they were likely to desert anyway based on their dismal 2006 performance. However, your statement that the trade of Coco Crisp is a significant factor in this year's poor attendance still stands as ridiculous. The Coco Crisp trade had nothing to do with last year's bullpen collapse. People may have been biding their time waiting to see whether this team was any good based on the high expectations from last year that got crushed by the team's dismal performance. This has been exacerbated by the weather. You can't take the Coco Crisp trade out of context without the Michaels trade as well.

If CC demands Barry Zito money, you know that the Tribe can't afford him, and that's because people like the bandwagoning chuckleheads who still hold a grudge over the Coco Crisp trade won't come to the ballpark. It's a Catch 22 - how is Dolan supposed to have money to spend on the team if people won't come to the ballpark because they don't think Dolan is spending enough money on the team and signing ridiculously overpriced "stars" on the downside of their career instead of building the team logically and sensibly.

Cleveland is not New York. When Dolan bought the team, he tried to spend like he was in New York for a couple years because he saw the Tribe's window closing. Now, people think he's cheap because he won't spend like New York. It's ridiculous, it's self-defeating, and it just gives people one more excuse not to go out to the ballpark when it's 40 degrees in April.
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