armchairgm
all sports, all you
+ Add Friends
You are not logged-in.
Sign Up - Log In
Main Page
Sports
Write
Articles
Hot Links
Images
Meet People
Fun
Explore
MLB - NFL - NBA - NHL - College Basketball - College Football - Soccer - Nascar - Other
Article - Locker Room Discussion
All Articles - New Articles - Today's Articles
Submit a Link - Approve Links
Picture Game - Ratings - Polls - Pick Game - Quiz Game - Spring Silliness
Random Page - Random Image - Random Fan
Edit
Page history Discuss pageWhat links here

The DH Debate - Where Do You Stand?

18
Vote

by user I am a cpcp

There seems to be a pretty big split on the DH rule on this site. I'm curious to see how many people are on each side and who thinks it should stay as it is.

Add your user name (with a pound sign in front to keep count) to the list under the way you think the DH rule should be. If you need to give your reasonings and such, please only put it in the comment section after adding your user name (or initials if you don't have an account) to the proper list.

Maybe this can be added to the AGMVC pages or something.


The DH rule should stay as is

  1. Happyskinny
  2. The Widening Geier
  3. Bball3345
  4. Chachi
  5. MikeBriggs
  6. Alex Holowczak
  7. The Shark

Both leagues should use a DH

  1. I_am_a_cpcp
  2. Ufgators
  3. jgov05
  4. Manny Stiles - DH for any one position player, not just Pitcher
  5. DRE-LO
  6. J_Cunningham
  7. Drpatriot
  8. Friskysman
  9. Rexmism

Neither league should use a DH

  1. BleedingGreen
  2. Awrigh01
  3. BigPPup
  4. Coreyisarealboy
  5. LouGehrig
  6. Joshkross
  7. Roblefko
  8. MadMetsSusan
  9. DNL
  10. Tartan
  11. Shrubbery
  12. Sasha
  13. Demonboy
  14. Sigglecow

Date

Fri 08/25/06, 7:39 am EST


Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
Bleeding GreenVarsity
1209 days ago
Score 2+-
The DH takes alot of the strategy out the game and therefore a good bit of the drama out. It's so much harder to manange in the NL than the AL. Do you stick with you pitcher another inning or 2 because he's rolling? Or do you hit for him in the 6th inning? Plus, it forces to teams to run and actually play baseball rather than just wait for the HR. Pitchers are baseball players too, let them act like it.
Permalink | Reply
JoshkrossDraft Pick
1209 days ago
Score 2+-
Presactly. Baseball is about tension, stress, decisions, strategy and so on. The DH eliminates a ton of that.
Permalink
I am a cpcpMajor Leaguer
1209 days ago
Score 3+-
I have a feeling most will be "homer" votes, what we grow up with will be what we like to see.
Permalink | Reply
CoreyisarealboyMajor Leaguer
1209 days ago
Score 3+-
Being a Brewers fan, I've watched them in both leagues. I grew up with the DH, but I still like the Brewers in the National League better with no DH.
Permalink
Bleeding GreenVarsity
1209 days ago
Score 1+-
Most likely you are right, but I'd also imagine that the purists no matter what team they like will go no DH.
Permalink
MikeBriggsVarsity
1209 days ago
Score 2+-
Ah, but that is what baseball "purists" want, no? Things they to stay the way the game looked when they grew up, or changed back to that? If not, then why do baseball purists not argue against using baseball gloves, helmets, and protective gear for the catcher?
I voted for keeping it the way it currently stands, even though I prefer seeing pitchers hit and the Nationals screwed up in the off-season by loading up on "DH players" for the interleague games. Really helped them, no? no.
Permalink
MikeBriggsVarsity
1209 days ago
Score 0+-
Based on the other comments I've read, I believe I might have misinterpreted your homer comment. Sorry.
Permalink
BigPPupMajor Leaguer
1209 days ago
Score 3+-
The DH is like watching the kicker of football step up to the plate. Its too specialized of a position with not enough reps in the actual game.
Permalink | Reply
Bleeding GreenVarsity
1209 days ago
Score 3+-
But at least that Kicker is doing something other guys can't do. Everyone else on a baseball team hits as part of their job. No offensive lineman has to kick every day.
Permalink
Awrigh01All-Star
1209 days ago
Score 4+-
There are plenty of arguments against the DH, here are a couple:
  1. To be viable in the AL, you need to have a viable DH. An above-average DH commands a high salary. Why add another burden to small market teams? Therefore, if you feel that the small market teams don't have a shot and don't believe that there should be a salary cap, one way to lessen the burden on small market teams is to eliminate the DH in the AL
  2. Since pitchers in the AL have to face more offensively potent batters, in general, they will have to throw more pitches. Throwing more pitches is bad for starting pitchers. Therefore, if you think there is a problem with pitcher's arm injuries in MLB, then maybe one way to limit this problem that is to eliminate the DH in the AL.
Permalink | Reply
I am a cpcpMajor Leaguer
1209 days ago
Score 3+-
Last time I checked the Indians top starting pitchers made as much or more than Travis Hafner.
Permalink
I am a cpcpMajor Leaguer
1209 days ago
Score 0+-
And point two doesn't hold water with the Cubs.
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
1209 days ago
Score 0+-
You cite an NL team that has arm injury issues on two pitchers. However this has nothing to do with how the DH affects AL pitchers.
Permalink
Awrigh01All-Star
1209 days ago
Score 1+-
point two might not hold water for the Cubs, and maybe I'm wrong, but I bet the number of innings an AL pitcher pitches per 100 pitches is lower in the AL than the NL.
Permalink
I am a cpcpMajor Leaguer
1209 days ago
Score 0+-
I'm not saying your wrong, I was just saying.
Permalink
LouGehrigRed-Shirting
1209 days ago
Score 1+-
It is not baseball. The DH has created a different, although closely related game. Canadian football is closely related to NFL football, but they are different games.
Permalink | Reply
I am a cpcpMajor Leaguer
1209 days ago
Score -1+-
Considering the how in to the Yankees you seem to be, and how the Yankees offense would have been in big trouble without being able to use some of their older guys as DHs the last 10 years, I would think you'd be thankful for the DH.
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
1209 days ago
Score 0+-
That, or he realizes it would be even better if the Yankees' pitchers had to hit.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1209 days ago
Score 1+-
Long live Ron Blomberg!!!
Permalink
I am a cpcpMajor Leaguer
1209 days ago
Score -1+-
I like the DH because not having a DH can quickly kill an offensive rally. Having that automatic out in the nine hole (whether it be by pathetic swing or pathetic sacrifice bunt) is extremely boring.
Permalink | Reply
JoshkrossDraft Pick
1209 days ago
Score 1+-
Your comment about it being boring is interesting. It seems to me (correct me if I'm wrong) that your excitement in baseball comes from the actual hits and pitches the physical action. The DH diminishes some of the more mental and strategic aspects of the game, and with a game that is admittedly as slow as baseball, the strategy aspect of it for me makes a huge difference. Watching Willie Randolph slowly rediscover (still isnt perfect yet) how to use a bullpen and pinchitters correctly since he hadn't done it in the AL has been interesting. When he gets it right, it's brilliant. When he gets it wrong it can kill you. I guess I'm just saying that the mental and management issues the DH eliminates are important to my enjoyment of the game.
Permalink
I am a cpcpMajor Leaguer
1209 days ago
Score 3+-
Yes, I find excitement in watching the players who are in the game play their best and I like it when the game moves along. I don't like waiting for a bunch of nitpicking moves that a lot of times don't end up meaning much. I find watching the game interesting not watching a manager try to save his job. I see baseball as an athletic competition not a boardgame like chess or Risk.
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
1209 days ago
Score 1+-
See, there's a better comment. My counter would be that Big Papi, as much as I love him, is a Big Fat Tub of Cowhide Masher. He's a super strong person who can swing, but not run or field well. But are his 45 home runs as impressive as someone who goes out and plays centerfield in between at bats?

I want to see athletes too. Athletes that can do everything they are asked to do. Athletes at the top of their game.


I will add here that your home town concept before (which I +'d) is playing out perfectly in our argument. I'm used to watching NL ball (although I watch the Yanks a bunch too) so I am used to appreciate the strategy involved. You are used to seeing athletes mash and pitchers pitch, so that seems better. Come over from the dark side, you'll be amazed after half a season :)
Permalink
Bleeding GreenVarsity
1209 days ago
Score 1+-
Again, that goes back to strategy and having a manager that has to manage. If you're in a rally and the pitcher comes up, you have to weigh pinch hitting for him against the value of keeping him in. That's drama, and strategy, and real baseball decision making.
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
1209 days ago
Score 0+-
Count me in against the DH
Permalink | Reply
I am a cpcpMajor Leaguer
1209 days ago
Score -2+-
Yay! We have our first "If you disagree with me I'll give you a - participant"! I'm so glad I opened up this discussion so you could bring your closed-minded rage to the subject when I offer points from the other side.
Permalink | Reply
JoshkrossDraft Pick
1209 days ago
Score 0+-
Close minded rage? that's a little harsh. I downvoted becuase your arguments are weeeeeeeeak. When you made strong points upvoted.
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
1209 days ago
Score 2+-
I'd also add that I upvote several of your points and the article. So don't get your knickers in a twist about votes that don't even really mean anything
Permalink
I am a cpcpMajor Leaguer
1209 days ago
Score 0+-
I don't see how my arguments are weak. You downvoted me saying the Cubs have two hurt starting pitchers (true). You downvoted me pointing out that the Yankees have benefitted from the use of a DH (true). You downvoted my own opinion on why I don't like the DH (the subject of the post). - are to be used when someone is commenting offensively or when they aren't adding to the discussion. Me countering an argument doesn't fall into either catagories. Personally, I don't care wheter I get downvoted or not, it's not like it hurts my feelings, I just think it takes away from the downvoter's credibility when they - just about every comment by someone that disagrees with them.
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
1209 days ago
Score 2+-
First of all, I + a pile of comments I disagree with, especially UF below.

Second, here's how your points are weak.

1) You answer an argument about how it affects injury rates in the AL with a comment about how one team in the NL has hurt pitchers. completely unrelated.

2)You don't prove that the Yankees have benefitted from the DH. you have stated how their offense is stronger, which is not a rebuttal to the argument that baseball would be BETTER without it. Offense != quality baseball. Perhaps with ALL the AL teams not having a DH the Yankees would have won more. Once again while this wasn't even his point more offense does not mean better.

3)This downvote was because you resorted to saying it was "boring." Name calling is a weak argument. Talk about what makes it boring. why is having to know how your line up is going to play out is uninteresting.
Permalink
I am a cpcpMajor Leaguer
1209 days ago
Score 2+-
So you skipped the first 35 words that led up to boring and just concentrated on that last word, then?
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
1209 days ago
Score 0+-
I did ignore the other 35 words. The other 35 words are an argument, not a strong one, but it's your opinion. However the boring as the summation of it solves it all for me. It's whining. Awww pedro struck out to end the Mets' rally. Waaaaah. Oh no, Arroyo moved the runner over. Waaah.


Plus, Ask Mike Hampton if it's an automatic out. Hell, ask Left-handed Tomo Ohka.


I'm sorry if my -'s hurt your opinion of my credibility, but instead of being so incredulous, why not look at your other posts which are downvote free.


I hate to quote the worst sports talk guy in the history of the world, but "if you're going to come, come strong, or don't come at all."
Permalink
I am a cpcpMajor Leaguer
1209 days ago
Score 2+-
There are literally hundreds of pitchers who couldn't get a hit if they had seven strikes and you call Hampton and Ohka "Coming strong"


By the way, I really don't care that much about the DH debate, but I enjoy arguing with incorrigible people who have as much free time as I do. Thanks for the fun afternoon. :-)
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
1209 days ago
Score 1+-
I'll upvote that.
Permalink
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
1208 days ago
Score 2+-
I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT!
Permalink
UfgatorsDiv-I Stud
1209 days ago
Score 3+-
Pitchers have enough to worry about. Making them hit increases their chance of injury. Why would you want your liability up at the plate, when you can replace him with a hitting specialist?! Maybe it is just now that i am noticing it, but this season there have been some really pathetic, no effort put forth-type swings by pitchers. Its like "yeah, i know i cant hit. ill just take the out." Plus, if by some chance the pitcher gets on base, do you want him running around and sliding like a chicken with his head cut off?!
Permalink | Reply
UfgatorsDiv-I Stud
1209 days ago
Score 2+-
by the way, if the votes are this split on armchair, then i dont foresee mlb doing anything within the near future. Unless a new, radical commissioner steps in, I doubt the rule will even be considered to be changed.
Permalink
MikeBriggsVarsity
1209 days ago
Score 3+-
I've seen the "oops was I supposed to actually swing" pitchers at bat while watching Nationals games, and there was at least one occasion where a pitcher didn't know what to do while he was standing on second and the ball was hit by him, so he froze. Result? He ended up on third, the guy who hit a double ended up on second. The problem? There had been someone standing on first, who, because there was no base for him when the musical chairs ended, ended up tagged out. Poor baserunning by Traber (pitcher) and Lopez (the guy who hit the "no matter what, I'm running to second base"; Soriano was the runner stuck without a base between second and third).
To a certain extent, I grew up watching the O's and the DH, and it is mildly amusing to watch the Nationals pitchers bat, and so I voted to keep things the way they are currently. I have seen many reasons (as mentioned above), this year watching the Nationals, that could quickly change my vote.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1209 days ago
Score 3+-
I'm not AGAINST pitchers batting (if they can) but I said it before, will say it again
DH Long Live the
Designated Hitter!!!
- that's for YOU gator
Permalink | Reply
JackdocJV Squad
1209 days ago
Score 6+-
I'll preface this comment by saying that I realize this idea is a huge departure from tradition, and there's no way MLB will put it into practice. But an interesting idea would be to remove the pitcher AND designated hitter from the batting lineup, so you have an 8-person lineup. A pitcher IS different from all the other players - a specialist like a kicker in football and a goaltender in hockey. So it's fine if they're not treated the same as the position players. I could live with the resulting decline in sacrifice bunts. On the other hand, the change would mean that everyone who hits does have to play a position and be a reasonably well-rounded player. Again, it's not going to happen, but it's an interesting thought. No matter where you stand, the one thing that should change is that pitchers should not be in the batting lineup for the All-Star Game, even in NL parks. Generally it's not an issue with pinch-hitting, but they should just remove the possibility of it happening. The game is supposed to showcase stars at their best. The NL doesn't normally use a DH, but somehow I don't think it would be hurt by plugging in Ryan Howard at that spot.
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1209 days ago
Score 2+-
I like it, but what happens when a pitcher that CAN hit comes along? a la George Herman Ruth? Eventually a Rick Ankiel-type will come into the league but actually be good at pitching AND hitting
Permalink
JackdocJV Squad
1209 days ago
Score 2+-
Those are very much the exceptions. And it's not like Ankiel has been a runaway success on the mound or at the plate.
Permalink
Jgov05All-American
1209 days ago
Score 2+-
The DH rule should absolutely be added for both leagues. Watching NL pitchers bat is like watching a bird with a broken wing try to fly.
Permalink | Reply
ChachiOSUDraft Pick
1209 days ago
Score 3+-
I think a few of you need to utilize a Showdown column and have this out.
Permalink | Reply
DRE-LOAAA-er
1209 days ago
Score 0+-
I feel that no matter if there is a DH or not that the rule should be applied for both leagues. Personally, there should be a DH in both leagues.
Permalink | Reply
JCantRootWaterboy
1209 days ago
Score 3+-
I'd love to say that I'm against the DH for the purity of baseball - but when so many plate appearances by a pitcher are just throw-away at-bats, how can you say that is not also against the purity of the game? It's like having a right-fielder that you know will have the ball hit to him four times a game and he'd be lucky to catch it once. I know the DH has been around for some time, but now we should just view it as part of the specialization of 21st century baseball that includes set-up men, long relievers, defensive replacements and the "hold" as a pitching statistic. One could even argue that the DH lends itself to more intense relief-pitcher strategy in the AL because managers have the freedom to use whatever situational pitcher they want to maximize matchups without having to worry about who has to hit in his spot the next inning. The way so many managers screw up the double switch nowadays - is it even worth it?
Permalink | Reply
JCantRootWaterboy
1209 days ago
Score 3+-
One more note: In the last few seasons managers like Buddy Bell in Colorado and Tony LaRussa in St. Louis have used Mike Hampton and Jason Marquis as their first or second pinch-hitters off the bench - so I believe that if a pitcher can truly hit a manager will recognize this and use him in the way. I even think (without looking it up) Rick Rhoden DH'ed for the Yankees once.
Permalink | Reply
J CunninghamVarsity Captain
1209 days ago
Score 2+-
Personally, I hate watching pitchers trying to handle a bat. Most of them simply cannot do it, so I wonder why they have to in the National League. As much work as pitchers put in trying to perfect their wind-ups and work on their changeups and breaking balls, why subject them to further work and abuse by having them swing a bat? You ask me, that's a little too much arm movement for a pitcher, and if a guy were to truly try and be great at both, I could see his arms falling off (okay, not literally, but you get the point). Not only that, but there comes a point in a game where the pitcher no longer bats. The manager purposefully puts in a pinch hitter to avoid having the pitcher come to bat. Staters rarely grab a stick after the fifth inning, and I can't remember the last time I saw a reliever bat for himself when his spot in the order came up. If they can't hit, and the manager knows they can't hit, why make them hit?
Permalink | Reply
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
1209 days ago
Score -1+-
Is there anything actually wrong with the DH? If so, fine change it. But if there is no problem with it, why not just keep the rule how it is? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Permalink | Reply
SashaDiv-I Stud
1208 days ago
Score 2+-
I would love it if the DH rule were taken away because I like to see pitchers hit and I think most of them need to take a little bit batting practice. I don't how ever go into a furry anytime I see an AL game I some times even enjoy an AL game (but usually I find them kind of boring). I also think that the people saying that pitchers spots kill a rally are just spit-ten bull. The pitchers spot in the middle of a rally brings strategy to a game. You can have the pitcher bunt hit and run or just pinch-hit (if the rally is that important it means you are down by some runs and the pitcher has not pitched to well), and sometimes the pitcher will come through. The DH has hurt pitchers in two ways, first they have another huge bat in the line up to face, and two it has lowered the standards on them which is not good for the pitchers or the team.
Permalink | Reply
Ron Sen, MDRed-Shirting
1208 days ago
Score 0+-
The DH provides a real differentiation between the leagues. Keep the DH (for the AL). Get rid of interleague play.
Permalink | Reply
Add your Comment
ArmchairGM welcomes all comments. If you don't want to be anonymous, Register or Login. It's free


Retrieved from "http://armchairgm.wikia.com/The_DH_Debate_-_Where_Do_You_Stand%3F"

This page was last modified 12:55, 29 August 2006. Content is available under the GFDL.

Contribute

ArmchairGM's pages can be edited.
Is this page incomplete? Is there anything wrong?
Change it!

Edit this page Discuss this page Page history

Recent contributors to this page

The following people recently contributed to this article.

Embed this on your site

Main Page About Special Pages Help Terms of Use Advertise