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The Clutch (and anti-Clutch)

13
Vote

by user MetsJetsDevils

In every sport there is the one guy that you know is going to produce in the clutch. The historical names are pretty easy to generate. No one was ever more clutch than basketball's Michael Jordan. Hockey's Claude Lemieux (no relation to Mario), just had a knack for scoring important playoff goals (for every team he played on). With 2 minutes left on the clock, up by 6, no defensive back wanted John Elway or Joe Montana lining up on the other side of the line of scrimmage. On the other hand, there are also those players that have a history of disappearing when their teams need them the most. Ron Hextall's 5-hole always seemed bigger in the big games. Phillies fans still have nightmare's of Jim Fregosi handing the ball to Mitch Williams in the World Series. Its unfair to have Scott Norwood on the list for one missed kick, but it did cost his team the Super Bowl. I have devised my lists of the most clutch current players and the anti-clutch current players. Please feel free to add your own.

CLUTCH

Golf - This is a no-brainer. Tiger Woods might be the most clutch golfer ever.

Tennis - Roger Federer simply does not lose (except the occasional lose to Nadal, typically on clay). There is a reason Federer and Woods hang out together.

Hockey - Martin Brodeur. Simply put, goaltending wins in the playoffs and there is not goaltender I would rather have in that situation that Martin Brodeur. Brodeur ranks up there with Patrick Roy as one of the best to ever play the game. The Devils were mostly able to survive the retirement of Scott Stevens, I don't know how they will survive when Brodeur finally hangs up his skates.

Baseball - Here's the thing. The obvious answer is Derek Jeter. The Yankees have just won the World Series too many times, and Jeter has just been the player who seems to make the plays that helps them win. I happen to think that a lot of it is just hype, but I can't think of anyone who belongs here more than DJ. Mariano would have had a chance but he has been on the mound when the Yanks lost a world series, and when they lost a 3-0 lead to Boston. I still think he is one of the most dominant closers to ever pitch, but he can't compete in the Mr. Clutch competition.

Basketball - This is not my area of expertise, and I can't think of any one player who belongs in this category. I can see an argument for Kobe or Jason Kidd. I will rely on people more informed than me on this one.

Football - When I first started thinking about this, I dreaded the fact that I was going to put Tom Brady down. However, the more I thought about it, the more I think it is a different Patriot who gets the gold. All of Tom's Brady successes have 1 thing in common, Adam Vinitiari. Tom Brady is a great QB. However, he has gotten a lot of help. The tuck rule and Adam V's heroics got him his first one. Adam V. got him his second one. The entire time he has had the mad genius cooking up his defense. Heck, even in the win over the Chargers, it wasn't Brady who saved the day, but an incredibly smart Troy Brown (this is a subject for another diary, but that play by Brown just shows what kind of players they have in NE!!). At the same time, Adam V. has lined up by himself, sometimes in the snow, sometimes in a dome, but always with the game on the line and nailed the kick. With the game on the line and within 50 yards, seeing Adam V lining up for the kick would make me cry if I were the opposing team. I know it is tough to give the award to a kicker, but too many important games have been won on his foot.

The Anti-Clutch

Golf - Phil Mickelson had this one all wrapped up until he went a won a major. He has been playing so well lately that the award is going to go to Greg Norman who won a lot less than he should have, or Jean Van de Velde, who was a relative nobody who had the British Open all sewed up only to choke in one of the greatest chokes in golf history.

Tennis - Ok. This one comes from women's tennis. The answer is easily Anna Kournikova. So much hype so few victories. Not only that, but her only attribute was that she was the best looking woman on the tour which she ceased to be once Maria Sharapova joined the tour.

Hockey - It is tough to single out a particular hockey player who is "un-clutch." I mean, it was easy to point out Ron Hextall, like I said, because he always seemed to give up a bad goal at a bad time. The best I can come up with recently is Eric Lindros. Now, Lindros did have some good playoffs. From 1994 to 1997 he averaged at least a point per game in the playoffs. However, he never led his team to a Stanley Cup win, was part of multiple Flyers collapses, and was one of many victims of Scott Stevens' playoff intensity. A quick look at his statistics reveals that Lindros, who came into the league hyped like no one before, hasn't even been to the playoffs since 2000.

Baseball - my original image is Kenny Rogers walking in the winning run in an extra inning playoff game. However, his record in last years playoffs might have saved him the indignity of be Mr. Anti-clutch. Maybe I am tainted by recent events, but Alex Rodriguez has to be considered Mr. Anti-clutch right now. His last 3 playoff series he has hit .258, .133, and .071, with a total of 2 HRs and 5 RBIs. All one need to do is compare those playoff numbers to his paycheck and its a pretty easy conclusion. I wonder if ever before in history Mr. Clutch played right next to Mr. Anti-clutch.

Basketball - My basketball answer is going to be a little bit of a cheat. Again, it might just be my lack of knowledge about basketball, but my Mr. Anti-clutch does not fail in the playoffs because he can't lead his team to the playoffs. The fact of the matter is that every team Stephon Marbury leaves gets immediately better and every team Marbury goes to gets remarkably worse.

Football – He gets another chance this weekend, but right now the answer has to be Peyton Manning. Thus far, the Colts have won this playoff year despite Manning. Manning has been stellar throughout the regular seasons, leading an offensive juggernaut. However, he has consistently failed to get things done in the playoffs, including a shutout by my beloved Jets. Manning’s big game failures date back to college. Manning has more talent than any other QB in the league. However, until he wins a Super Bowl, or at least gets to one, he will just be an example of why talent alone is not enough in the NFL.

Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 3+-
(no comment)
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
(double no comment)
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MetsJetsDevilsDraft Pick
1044 days ago
Score 3+-
Why no comment? I expect mroe from you!
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
1-Never expect. 2-You worked hard here and don't want to offend your effort or start another troll war. 3-We already went through this in sick detail too many times.

My philosophy: Like the spoon in the Matrix, "there is no clutch"

"Clutch" is the new "Sport or No Sport?"
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
You already know my feelings on the matter...
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
or, Clutch is what you remember, everything else is fact.
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Leslie MonteiroVarsity
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
Good breakdown!
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ChristofMVP
1044 days ago
Score 3+-
You know, I was going to vote for this, until I saw that you were trolling some folks - most notably Philadelphia sports. BTW - Ron Hextall did once lead the Flyers, or more like carried them on his back, to Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals against the Edmonton Oilers. But hey, I guess that does not count, right, for if it did, then, gasp, your troll would not work.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
Mitch Williams is the reason the Phillies made it to the World Series in 1993...
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MetsJetsDevilsDraft Pick
1044 days ago
Score -1+-
Troll? Give me a break. I understand that Philadelphia fans are frustrated with the fact that haven't won a championship in any sport since the early 80s. In hockey that is largely because of their goaltending. And Hextall did not win a Stanley Cup with the Flyers. End of story.
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MetsJetsDevilsDraft Pick
1044 days ago
Score -1+-
and Mitch Williams is the reason they lsot the WS that year.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 3+-
Joe Carter is the reason they lost that game. The Phillies lost that world series because (here it comes) the Blue Jays scored more runs than them in four of the games.
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
here we go again!!! we will all have to agree to disagree. some people believe in clutch some do not. i believe in clutch for one simple reason, the next time you notice a clutch situation, ask yourself who you would like to have the ball.

not too difficult a task- the only thing is you might have to be HONEST. then ask yourself if that is the best player on the team.

there are plenty of examples in all sports including baseball, football, hockey, basketball etc. for all of your favorite teams where you might say, "yeah this is our best player, but i would rather have XXX up"
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
I don't think we should agree to disagree, we should just agree that you're wrong.

There are plenty of examples where no names won the game when XXX didn't.

John Paxson, Francisco Cabrera, Bill Mazeroski, Mario Elie, Timmy Smith, etc and so on...
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
1044 days ago
Score -2+-
give it up. read moneyball again
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MetsJetsDevilsDraft Pick
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
Isn't clutch doing it over and over again in the same situation. Its like Michael Jordan, Adam Vinitiari or Martin Brodeur did it only once. They have done it over and over again. And I apologize if this was covered before. I have been away from the site for awhile and did not realize.
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
1044 days ago
Score -2+-
why would you minus that? they should take a +/-s away cause they're silly and don't mean anything for an anon. you dope! anyway, what are you mad cause you read moneyball and really liked it? haha. i read it and wasn't sucked into that bullcrap. and that's why nobody follows it anymore. it's bullcrap. stealing a base is good, a sacrifice late in the game is a good move.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
+/- doesn't mean anything to non-Anon's either. I never read Moneyball (but I am familiar with the concepts that led up to it). So another fine point, there Anon.
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
i will give you a few examples to start:

Yankees: a-hole is the best hitter on the team. in a pressure situation, i would choose jeter, matsui, abreu...all before him

Jets: some years back. Keyshawn johnson was their best wide receiver. in a pressure situation i would much rather throw it to chrebet who i trusted more with the ball (catching it)

Rangers: gretzky offensively was the best ranger a few years back. i would much rather have messier have the puck as under pressure he produced.
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
Gretzky didn't produce under pressure? WTF? Four Cups and two Conn Smythe Trophies tell a different story...
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
not saying that wylie- i'm saying gretzky was the best offensive player on the team, the best. i would still under a pressure situation rather have messier. to me that man was CLUTCH. without messier we NEVER win a cup. that man was one of the most clutch players i have ever seen in ANY SPORT. don't know how old you are but did you see the '94 playoff run?
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
Yeah, I saw it -- he guaranteed victory and everything. It was a clutch performance by any measure (remember, clutch performances exist, but bad players don't become good just because it's crunch time) by a truly great player. Gretzky was another amazing player, though, so I would be just as comfortable to give him the puck late in the game -- as the greatest passer ever, maybe he'd find Messier for a goal. Then they'd both be clutch. Also, you forgot about Richter, who was a really good goalie until he got hurt. My point is that you can count on good players to make the plays at crunch time over and over again, because they're good players in general.
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
agreed but average players might perform above expectation in clutch, great players might perform at expectation in clutch- both are clutch players. great players might perform below expectation in clutch- this is an un-clutch player and they do exist.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
getting a hit two at bats in a row is WAY above expectation (.500) and getting an out 2 times in a row is waay below expectation (.000) for ANY player.
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False ProphetAll-Star
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
Clutch is Kirby Puckett, who makes a game saving catch and hit the game winning HR in game 6 of the 1991 World Series. That is most definetly clutch
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Anonymous Fanatic #2
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
you mean WAS kirby puckett
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MetsJetsDevilsDraft Pick
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
I am in the cult of the Great One, but at some point you do have to ask how many Cups the Great One won without Messier. How many did Messier win without the Great One?
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
met boy- we are talking about clutch, not who is a better player. i am saying that in a pressure situation in new york when both gretzky and messier were on the same team, i would rather have messier with the puck than gretzky even though gretzky was the better offensive player. don't read into more than what i am stating so simply for you.
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MetsJetsDevilsDraft Pick
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
You seem to be confused I think. The answer is the Great One never won a cup without Messier but Messier won 2 on his own.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
If clutch is what you say it is, Jeter would bat 1.000 every year, Messier would score on every shot and Tom Brady would complete every pass for a TD. Just stop it already. Great players are great because they are great. Not because of some magical pixiedust called clutch. It's a bogus term.

They are professional athletes, the pressure is ALWAYS on. If you think players "Step Up in the clutch" then they MUST suck until then, right?

And for the MILLIONTH time, Jeter has made more outs under pressure than not, Jordan missed more game winners than he made and A-Rod's 7th-9th inning numbers or "Clutch" stats were MUCH better than Jeter's LAST YEAR... Proven FACT.

Now go back and remember the one or two plays you want and paint the whole picture with that brush, I live in the REAL world.
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
I would just like to add that sometimes good players play poorly in crunch time, and sometimes average players play well in crunch time, because players aren't robots. But you can't go wrong by counting on your best players all the time -- in the long run, that strategy will work out better for you than expecting players who aren't good to "raise their games".
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
Let's not forget, we are talking about TEAM sports!@!! One player cannot win a game all by themself, because he'd have to forfeit for not having enough players on the field.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
Anon, even though you probably have a log in and don't want to give up your true identity, PLEASE sign up again, call yourself "AnoNYmous1" and we can duel all day, all night on any/every topic you want because the ruining opinions with this slop is stupid. We can put all this debate where it belongs, under the appropriate topics, instead of rehashing it over and over on random opinions.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
(for all the "Moneyball" kids - Apparently the formula for measuring clutch is as follows: Clutch = (Player) / (proximity to NYC in miles) X (rings + TV commercials)
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
I think Bill James came up with that formula, back in the early eighties!
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
1044 days ago
Score -2+-
the problem with manWags and wylie is that they don't understand what clutch means.

let me ask you two kids and easy question. are there certain people you work with that work better or worse under pressure than you? i work with people that are smart and perform wiht the best of them. BUT when they are under pressure and stressed out, they can't handle it and they CHOKE. they make bad decisions, they lose their cool, they perform poorly. without that pressure though, you can't touch them, they are the best.

The meaning of clutch in baseball terms (for the batter)

late in the game playoffs close game

major city (not anywhere in arizona or ohio)
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
1044 days ago
Score -2+-
and stop with your nonsense about you always want the better player. that is bullcrap, complete bullcrap and you know it.

there are situations where i would want a player of lesser ability because i believe they are more composed under pressure. so stop with your stupid argument that you don't even believe yourself-

you tell me last year in the playoffs in a clutch situation - wait you know what forget that cause you two can't figure out what clutch means...let me make this super simple for the both of you kids.

here is the situation:

Yankees are down by one run, in the ninth inning, two outs, bases loaded. all you need is a single and two runs score- you win.

NOW- who as a betting man, a manager, a fan, do you want up?! if you say a-rod then you are a friggin LIAR!!! yet a-rod is the best hitter on the team. he is anti-clutch. done deal, bingo!!
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
1044 days ago
Score -2+-
give me a-holes stats for the yankees in the playoffs, innings 7-9, in close games. not too pretty, not too pretty at all.
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
Aw, geez, and here I was thinking that we were going to have a civil conversation here...
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
1044 days ago
Score -1+-
and one player can win the game all by themselves manWag. especially in baseball when a single wins the game. that is the situation, who do you want at bat.

just like you don't understand why a closer is important. yet everyone that ACTUALLY plays the GAME understands.

that is why i bring up moneyball. cause your arguments or childish. if everything was the same then there would be no pressure. and you don't even understand that there are different levels of pressure even in MLB. give it up. please. i thought you played baseball?
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
a single player CAN'T win a game, especially with a single unless you have runners on base; and HOW did those runners get there? Magic? Ghost runners?
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
Nice, ghost runners! Brings back fond memories of schoolyard baseball...
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
I'll bet you were clutch on the schoolyard, D21Dub!
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
You're damn right I was clutch. We tracked stats one summer, I think I hit like 40+ jacks (we used a tennis ball in a church parking lot, of course, and you had to hit it past a certain row of cars for it to be a longball)... Good times!
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
we can have a civil conversation. you and manny contend that there is no such thing as pressure? pressure doesn't exist. all humans react the same way to pressure. somehow humans are different on all levels except pressure because it doesn't actually exist.
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
Pressure is the force per unit area applied on a surface in a direction perpendicular to that surface. Log in, and we can more fun science lessons!
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
haha. i will say at least you have a sense of humor. i am an electrical engineer.
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
A plus to the double-E AF!
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
you know what i don't believe in anything. i'm gonna be like manny and wylie. nothing exists. there is no home field advantage in any sport. i think that all games should be played in yankee stadium from now on. since pressure doesn't exist neither do fans or noise. if they are pros they should still perform the same exact way, right?
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 3+-
"Believe in me 'cause I

don't believe in anything and I, I wanna be someone to believe, to believe, to believe,yeah

Mr. Jones and me stumbling through the barrio Yeah we stare at the beautiful women 'She's perfect for you, Man, there's got to be somebody for me.' I wanna be Bob Dylan Mr. Jones wishes he was someone just a little more funky When everybody loves you, oh, son, that's just' bout as

funky as you can be..."
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PeanMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
haha..one of my fav songs davis
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
that borders on too much effort for too little reward, but it is appreciated!
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
Nah, I just Googled the lyrics, then copy-and-pasted. "Too much effort" is what AF is in for at Retrosheet, poring over the boxscores of every NYY playoff game with A-Rod in it...
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Anonymous Fanatic #3
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
you know what i'm gonna be like you and not log in. haha. jeter is so awesome and yankeez rule! a-rots is un-clutch. show me the stats for a-rots in the 6th inning on tuesdays after eating a pastrami sandwich. not pretty. haha.
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
good one anon#3. but i am asking a very simple question.

What are a-hole's stats in the following situation:

for the Yankees late in the game (innings 7 - 9) in the playoffs in close games (1 or 2 runs)

i don't think that is too difficult to understand. i am trying to ascertain a-rot's ability for the yankees in a clutch situation. i already defined clutch for you?
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
In the spirit of teaching men to fish: it's called retrosheet -- you can look the stats up for yourself! Remarkable thing, this internet!
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
Oh, and a clutch is a mechanism for transmitting rotation, which can be engaged and disengaged. FYI.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
And choke controls the air mixture in the combustion chamber, it's like BucketseatGM in here...
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Anonymous Fanatic #4
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
Anon 3, Jeter is your superior! He is superior to all! You must bow to him, worship him and pray to him while humming "New York, New York" and never address him as "jeter", he is Captain.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 3+-
I have A-Rods stats after eating the sandwich .000-0-0-0, because when he eats the pastrami, he chokes!! R-Dee-R-R!! (can I get a rimshot in here?)
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PeanMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
haha davis and manny, you guys are killing me on this thread
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
Some humans under severe duress do not perform standard tasks well. They feel a sense of pressure that causes them to CHOKE. This would lead other humans to the conclusion that they are UN-CLUTCH.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
So to not be un-clutch, you need to un-choke yourself?
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
Quick, does anyone know the Heimlich Maneuver??!!
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
Maybe we can agree that doing good is clutch and not doing good is choking?
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
almost manny. except you are not adding in the important ingredient. PRESSURE. Under normal circumstances if you do good- you are a good player. if you do bad- you are a bad player.

now, stay with here. when you are a good player and unable to perform under severe pressure (no manny not everyday pressure)- you are a CHOKER or UN-CLUTCH.

when you are a good player and able to perform under sever pressure (no manny not every single time, but most of the time)- you are CLUTCH.
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
i think that was an excellent example for you two to CHEW on. but don't CHOKE on it.
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
I think there's a joke in there about an AF SWALLOWING, but I'll not be the one to make it...
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
Done and Done. AF's don't swallow, but they sure can suck! If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking 'til you do suck seed.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
and I liked him... Is there any way to see how many -'s I've accumulated? It's gotta be a ton! Can I cash my +'s in for a T-Shirt?
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PeanMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
AF should just register...its so freakin obvious its him every time he posts
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
Yeah, ArmchairUP, son. That would be the clutch thing to do...
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PeanMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
screw it, the thumbs are going to be replaced with "clutch" and "unclutch"
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
Damn it! You beat me to it!!! But can we make it "clutch" and "choke"?
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
Good one, Pean!
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PeanMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
hmm i dunno...i wanted to keep the + / -, but i got overrulled by User:Awrigh01
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
well, it's really not sensitive to the thumbless people of the world, and may give people the wrong idea that we're Pro-hitch hiker...
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
"Well, friend, we always knew this day would come... Say goodbye to your brother."
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PeanMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
i have ridiculous hitch hikers thumb...wow, this is Off Topic
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
I often wish there was a "?" to select with the thumbs, so I could properly respond to these comments
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
What, you didn't my Simpsons reference? Linguo died in vain!!
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
it doesn't register sometimes in print, my bad. "Linguo IS dead."
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
All I know is when A-Rod hits 60 bombs this year and carries the Wankies to a title, I better not see ONE Anon Yankee fan talk about how great A-Rod is... NOT ONE.
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
if he did that and did well under pressure situations.....then he would be CLUTCH.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
NOT ONE.
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
Give it up, AF -- you've been hopelessly outclassed and outnumbered. Besides, we're talking about thumbs now, if you don't mind...
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
I'm down with throwing polydactyls into the thumb conversation. It's as fun to say as it is to wonder where a polydactyl buys gloves or finds a friend to High 6! We need to interview Antonio Alfonseca to find these things out
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
1044 days ago
Score -2+-
as an AF i can't even use the thumb feature
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
Also, what about Three Finger Brown?
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
Mordecai has the best birthday of them all...
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PeanMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
yeah thanks to User:Wtt02005
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
This is where a ? would suffice
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
Wait, you retired on your birthday?
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PeanMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
to my comment?
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
I think he means that your nemesis, Wtt02005, would come on and troll as an AF, giving everybody a bunch of minuses to drag the +/- down. So now AFs have no thumbs, opposable or otherwise.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
Name a better time to do it. Wtt kept the Anons from +/-'ing??
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PeanMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
haha, yeah thanks D21 he got it right...he would seriously sit there and give out HUNDREDS of minus votes when he was logged out....alot of people complained and stuff so it made sense to just yank it for AFs
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
I didn't know that. What a turd. I loved his volleyball article.
No -'s This user gives out NO negatives because negatives cause cancer
even though I created (Kharma Fan) it is fun to - sometimes!!
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
No -'s This user gives out NO negatives because negatives cause cancer
fan with a small f, oops
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PeanMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
manny you have 1323 minus votes...not bad for over 5000 comments
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
Ooh! Ooh! Do me!
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PeanMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
haha, 252 -'s davis
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
1323? And I try so hard to get 'em! I earned every one. That's at least 1000 more than I've dished out (about 10% are by accident) D21 almost got himself a - on principle there...
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PeanMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
davis you got a nice low armchair jersey #..how did you find the site?
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
Huh... I get minused every 4.38 comments. Manny gets minused every 3.88 comments. Worthless trivia, but still...
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
I guess I'm unclutch about 1/4 of the time and un-choke 1/2 the time?
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
One of you guys found me on Wikipedia. Might have been Roblefko, before his unfortunate banning...
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
d21, there is NO worthless trivia.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
OK, I got another one... can you tell how many +'s we've given out???
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
total, not just THIS thumbfest
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
Good one!
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
Thanks!
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PeanMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
got you guys beat...613 -'s in 1200 comments...i guess i say alot of stupid things :P
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
that's a hell of an OffBase percentage...
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PeanMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
manny 4308 davis - 2258
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
THAT's what I'm talking 'bout... (4309 now) I'll keep track in my head so I don't bother you anymore with that. =)
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
'Tis better to give than receive, I guess, since I've only been plussed 1181 times...
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
+! and half of those probably came from me! (and half of THOSE were in this thread!)
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
My only regret is that I have but one thumb to up per comment...
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
Sniff... You're not the only one who plusses me, Manny! I've gotten plusses from plenty of people!
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
first I find you're a fanbox slut, now this!!!
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 2+-
D21Dub is getting himself lots of plussy... nice.
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
Haha! And on that note, I think it might be time to call it a night, guys. It's been real...
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
I think our job is done here. I'm going to the gym. Until later, Peace and good tidings!
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PeanMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
davis, he gave you 252!
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
If you look ALL the way up to the first comment on this post, I knew what I was talking about, eh?
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Davis21wylieMVP
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
Me too!
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
Maybe people will let well enough alone next time I say (no comment).
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PeanMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
i guess i will offer up the apology to MJD, for littering up his article with our comments...sorry man
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
he's recieved enough apologies around here that he hasn't accepted... =)
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JuTMSY4Legend
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
Admittedly, John Elway has one 2 SB titles and led the drive, but at the same time, it was always questioned if he could win the big one until 1998. For those reasons, I think its best we leave him off in general, kinda somewhere inbetween like most players
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Anonymous Fanatic #5
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
manny, davis, if you think that clutch doesn't exist then do you also think that there is no difference in situations within a game, a few games, regular season vs playoffs? It seems like you would think that a player approaches every situation the exact same way, maybe so that you can measure their stats equally against other players? Not trying to be annoying, just trying to understand your argument better.
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Anonymous Fanatic #5
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
Clutch (dictionary.com): done or accomplished in a critical situation: a clutch shot that won the basketball game. dependable in crucial situations: a clutch player. Definition is simple and pretty tangible, not sure then, how you can argue that it doesn't exist.
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Anonymous Fanatic #6
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
Finally!!! someone who understands CLUTCH. Thank you Anon#5.
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Anonymous Fanatic #6
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
and why don't you just armChair up?
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
Now define "critical". I would contend that in a "Pressure" game, say like a World Series, EVERY inning is critical. ONE play does not win/lose a game, you get 27 critical outs to win/lose the game.
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Anonymous Fanatic #7
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
OK, so then if someone does nothing noteworthy to contribute towards that victory in any of those 27 chances, can you agree that person is non-cluctch. And conversely, if someone does something noteworthy, then that player is clutch, or at least more clutch than previous player.
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Anonymous Fanatic #7
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
That's one pt. The ohther, is do you seriously think that every out is exactly as meaningful as every other in a world series game? So if a player flies out to deep OF with no one on, that's exactly as meaningful as a player doing the same thing with none or one out and a runner on 3rd?
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TartanVarsity Captain
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
There are two positions that a player can conceivablely win a game by himself. A hockey goalie that allows no goals and scores one of his own somehow, I don't think a goalie has ever scored in a 0-0 game. And the slightly more realistic and still most likely impossible...... a national league pitcher pitching a perfect game with 27 strikeouts and hitting a homerun in one of his at bats. And even then you have to assume the catcher cleanly catches all 3rd strikes. That would be the definition of clutch
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
so Bugs Bunny is clutch. I'll agree to that one. Maybe if you cloned yourself 8 times you could be clutch?
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Anonymous Fanatic #7
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
Right, and all of the Gas House Gorrillas were not clutch. I finally agree with you on something.
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TartanVarsity Captain
1044 days ago
Score 1+-
But if you cloned yourself 8 times, you'd have to wait for yourself to age enough to be able to play major league baseball. You'd be over 40 by the time they got there, it'd be a serious clutch performance at that age. Or if you fathered say 5 children, and they were the starting five on a championship basketball team. You could call yourself clutch then. Or mothered 5 children for that matter.
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Anonymous Fanatic #8
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
We're not saying win a game completely by himself, afterall it is a team sport. But doing something with the game on the line in a more critical situation. Like Laettner. If he doesn't hit that three, then Duke loses.

Now you will argue that all of the other players and all the other points are equally as necessary. And I would rebut by saying not necessarily, for if those previous pts did not score, how could you be completely certain that Kentucky would have scored all the pts they did.

However, if Laettner did not score on his shot, Duke definately would have lost because THERE WAS ONLY ONE SECOND TO GO. So Duke wouldn't have had any more shots. And Kentucky was up by two. These are the facts and they are undisputed.
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TartanVarsity Captain
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
Dispute dispute dispute. I'm disputing them, I'm disputing them
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Anonymous Fanatic #8
1044 days ago
Score 0+-
If there is one thing you cannot dispute is the time. Time runs out, well in basketball and football, not as much in baseball. And, everything else being equal, you either have time or you don't. It is more important to have more pts than your opponent at the end of a game than at any other point during it.

Because having more pts at the end of the game means you win. If you have more pts at any pt previous, your opponent has an opportunity to overcome that.

How can you dispute this.
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TartanVarsity Captain
1043 days ago
Score 2+-
Clutch is taken as an individual occurance too often. It is taken out of context. Un-clutchness is taken the same way, individual occurances. You have to look over the career of the athlete to determine if he's "clutch". When you do that, those percentages fall into the normal percentages they're expect to produce in any situation, regardless of time, score, field, etc. Jordan, wow, made tons of game winners, missed more, that would give him a shooting percentage of under .500. Jordan's career FG% was .497. So he actually performed worse in clutch situations than he did in any other situation. Clutch is just a term that has been made up to label athletes with characteristics they'd really like expressed in themselves.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1043 days ago
Score 1+-
(at the next draft, any sport)

"Look at this player, Jim. He's got tools, a work ethic, he's the total package!"

"Well, Bill, I'm worried that he might have a low clutchside potential"
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1043 days ago
Score 0+-
(at the next draft, any sport)

"Look at this player, Jim. He's got tools, a work ethic, he's the total package!"

"Well, Bill, I'm worried that he might have a low clutchside potential"
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Anonymous Fanatic #6
1043 days ago
Score 0+-
Manny- the real quote is this, "Well, Bill, I'm worried that he might not be able to handle the pressure and scrutiny in New York? He might be better off playing in a small market team, like Arizona or Baltimore."
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1043 days ago
Score 1+-
"You might be right Jim. But once he gets a couple years under his belt, puts up some good numbers, gets a little over the hill and signs a horrible, long term contract, the Yankees will be there to trade their best prospects for him, which we all know... the Yankees don't ever have good prospects."
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