The Closer

by user Steaksammich

There are some really dumb beliefs in baseball. There are still some who believe that AVG is more important than OBP. When people use the term "productive out" they're being serious...as if such a thing actually exists. And (since I'm picking on the traditionalist let's poke a little fun at the statheads) there are actually folks out there who believe that a baseball player's value can be boiled down to one number such as VORP, NRAA, or Win Shares. But the school of thought that pisses me off the most is the role of a closer.

As I type this the Boston Red Sox are taking on the New York Yankees. David Pauley pitched an absolutely fantastic game. I knew I'd be missing the first few innings because of work and I didn't even bother to Tivo the game because I assumed by the time I got home Pauley would be getting crushed. But no, he held the Yankees to just one run (a solo shot by Bernie Williams) through six. Going into the 7th the score was tied at 1 and Pauley found himself in a bit of trouble. The Yankees got the bases loaded and a pitching change was in order.

Ok, so let's review...It's a tied game with two division rivals going at it in an important game. The bases are loaded late in the game and if the Yankees score the Sox only have 2 innings to try to tie it. Obviously it's an extremely important situation and you want your best reliever in the game, right? No no no, of course not! The best reliever on the Sox is their closer, Jonathan Papelbon and he's a closer! He can't come in in the 7th inning and he obviously can't come in if the score is tied. He can only come in to get a save (the single most useless stat in the history of the sport). So the Red Sox put in Rudy Seanez who promptly walks Jason Giambi to bring in the go-ahead run.

Am I the only one infuriated by this? Why the hell would you even consider putting in a guy like Seanez, who has done very little to even justify a spot on the team, when you have Paplelbon, who is having the best season out of any major league reliever so far. I don't blame Terry Francona. He's just doing what baseball laws tell him to do. Closers are for 9th innings only so they can get their precious little save and their big paychecks.

I'd say it's a joke....but if the Sox don't win this I will definately not be laughing.

Date

Tue 06/06/06, 5:38 pm EST

SteaksammichRed-Shirting

1272 days ago

Score 1

Sox lose...2-1. I'm not a happy camper here

Permalink | Reply

ChristofMVP

1272 days ago

Score 4

You are speaking to the Choir here. I still remember Jim Fregosi bringing in Mitch "Wild Thing" Williams to save Game 6 of the 1993 World Series. Yeah, that was a good move. . . .

Permalink | Reply

Patrickburke1980All-American

1272 days ago

Score 2

Another good article. Steakman, you've been a great addition to Armchair. Keep up the good work my man.

Permalink | Reply

SynchysiSoccer Kid

1272 days ago

Score 1

I'd say holds are a bit more useless than saves, but yeah. The predefined role of the closer on a major league team probably does said team more harm than good in the long run. Phil Garner actually did this a few weeks ago; he brought in Brad Lidge in the seventh inning in a critical situation. While Lidge gave up the game, I was personally happy to see a closer used in something other than a save situation.

Permalink | Reply

PeanMajor Leaguer

1272 days ago

Score 4

I think that was only because Lidge was temporarily removed as closer because he was pitching so horribly

Permalink | Reply

Susan mullenTee-Baller

1271 days ago

Score -1

In this case, you are correct. They're nursing Papelbon's stats. Mariano Rivera has

never had the luxury of that kind of treatment. He may not be used in the 7th, but he's frequently used in the 8th. The total "saves" stat will be used to try & get Papelbon the Cy Young just as it was used to get it for Gagne even though Gagne was tagged with "losses" during his so-called "streak," during which his team won nothing. Papelbon was tagged with a loss on May 3 but that doesn't interfere with the technical continuous saves stat. Obviously, there are problems with this whole area--I'm not saying Papelbon's not a swell pitcher, just pointing out the problems with the stats & the Cy Young vote that will be awarded. Before his 2 most recent appearances, Rivera had pitched 3 consecutive innings in relief & lead the AL in IP among the top 20 late inning relievers. I just want the record to show that the 1 inning close applies to some, like T. Hoffman & others, but it never in 11 regular seasons and 11 post seasons

has applied to how Rivera's team has used him.

Permalink | Reply

PopjonesWaterboy

1271 days ago

Score 4

Baseball is a game of copycats. Being different is frowned upon. Remember when the Red Sox tried to use the "closer by committee" system a couple of years ago, and the bullpen blew a couple of games, they got skewered. Oh, how the critics howled: "Pitchers need to know their roles!", "The last three outs are the toughest, not everyone can get them!", "Bill James is an idiot!" Lost among the critics was the fact that the Sox bullpen pitchers just weren't that good. Of course, the criticism has scared anyone else from deviating from predefined bullpen roles since.

Permalink | Reply

SynchysiSoccer Kid

1271 days ago

Score 2

"I think that was only because Lidge was temporarily removed as closer because he was pitching so horribly" It was after Lidge had been reinstated as closer, and it was actually the eighth inning of a tie game on the road.

Permalink | Reply

JuTMSY4Legend

1271 days ago

Score 2

"You are speaking to the Choir here. I still remember Jim Fregosi bringing in Mitch "Wild Thing" Williams to save Game 6 of the 1993 World Series. Yeah, that was a good move. . . ." Haha, I remember that. Anyways, I agree with your point. I would suggest however, that if you're the sox in the top of the 9th, 1-1 Bases loaded, who do you bring in. The closer is supposed to not only fix that situation, but not let it happen. Ideally your closer is "supposed to be" your best pitcher (On a pitch by pitch basis), so you want him in when you can get the W, not when theres 9 outs to go. I still agree with you, he should be used in very key situations, but I can see the logic with a closer. And yes, Lidge wasn't a closer at the time (I don't think he is right now either)

Permalink | Reply

The sharkDraft Pick

1271 days ago

Score 4

Based on last night's game, this Red Sox fan could not agree with you more. BTW - where was Keith Foulke in that situation?? I'm guessing that you would agree that he was at least a better option than Seanez?

Permalink | Reply

SteaksammichRed-Shirting

1271 days ago

Score 2

I loved the "closer by committee" idea! It didn't work because their bullpen sucked, not because the idea sucked. It doesn't matter if your bullpen doens't know their roles if they can't get outs no matter what roles they're in.

Permalink | Reply

SteaksammichRed-Shirting

1271 days ago

Score 4

Foulke apparently has some kind of back issue that's kept him on the sidelines for the last week or so. If they refuse to go Papelbon I probably would've went with Riske or Tavarez. Seanez has walked a lot of batters this year and Giambi loves his walks. That was a doomed combination from the begining.

Permalink | Reply

PeanMajor Leaguer

1271 days ago

Score 1

thanks for the correction synch

Permalink | Reply

XinophDraft Pick

1270 days ago

Score 1

Yes, the "Closer by Committee" idea was burned through by the Sox that year, but not for a good reason. Boston's bullpen was absolutely terrible that season - if they'd had a good bullpen, the concept might have worked. But, I also do think they are trying to use Papelbon as a legitimate closer, not "pad his stats" (an absolutely ridiculous statement if I ever heard one); they're just sticking him to the traditional closer role. While he's been very good so far, given his age and relative inexperience, I don't think you want to go using him haphazardly yet. Despite his performance thus far this season, Papelbon is not Rivera, and to compare the two is ludicrous. Perhaps in a year or two, when Papelbon has pitched in more pressure situations and has gotten more MLB experience, then they can start using him more regularly. But, I think right now they're still getting the "lay of the land" (or the arm, as the case may be) and don't want to push him too hard.

Permalink | Reply

Alex HolowczakHall of Famer

1268 days ago

Score 0

The "save" is not as bad as the "blown save." If a reliever comes in, say, for an injured pitcher after 1 inning, and the team is 1-0 up, if he then gives up a tieing run before they score another, it's a blown save. So he can pitch 8 innings, give up 1 run, and at 1-1 he would get a blown save. They should abolish that stat.

Permalink | Reply

ChachiOSUDraft Pick

1267 days ago

Score 0

That wouldn't technically be a blown save because the starter must go atleast 5 innings to record the win. The situation you pointed out would make the reliever the pitcher of record and he would get a ND.

Permalink | Reply

SteaksammichRed-Shirting

1267 days ago

Score 0

I agree with what you're saying (Papelbon is being used as a closer, it's not because they're trying to pad his stats, and he's not in the same world as Rivera). My only arguement is that the closer role is ridiculous. There is absolutely no reason to save your best pitcher until the 9th.

Permalink | Reply