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Should opposing teams fraternize?

11
Vote

by user ActiveSports

Johnny Damon, Kevin Youklis of the Boston Red Sox, and Brian Roberts of the Baltimore Orioles, do plenty of "fraternizing" before a Spring Training game in 2005.
Johnny Damon, Kevin Youklis of the Boston Red Sox, and Brian Roberts of the Baltimore Orioles, do plenty of "fraternizing" before a Spring Training game in 2005.

Team officials weren't happy. Opinions were mixed in the clubhouse. And others around the team and league think it's much ado about nothing. At issue were comments made recently by Phillies pitcher Jon Lieber. As released on the Official Site of Major League Baseball, the right-hander acknowledged received a pointer from former Marlins manager Joe Girardi last year. In a recent interview with the Philadelphia Daily News, Lieber said Girardi told him that some of the Marlins players noted that his pitches were flat.

Lieber and Girardi were former battery mates with the Chicago Cubs from 2000-02. Asked if Girardi's advice was helpful, Lieber said, "Yeah, there is no question."

The issue of fraternizing, though, is addressed in the Major League Baseball rulebook. Rule 3.09 states: "Players in uniform shall not address or mingle with spectators, nor sit in the stands before, during, or after a game. No manager, coach or player shall address any spectator before or during a game. Players of opposing teams shall not fraternize at any time while in uniform."

In years past, umpires paid closer attention to fraternizing. Until the late 1980s and early 1990s, one member of the umpiring crew arrived early to games, specifically to observe batting practice. The designated umpire would monitor if opposing players talked for extended periods of times. Over the past 15 years, however, the league and umpires have relaxed their monitoring of fraternizing because it is so common.

Comments across the league are varied. Marlins left-hander Dontrelle Willis shrugged off the comments about Girardi helping Lieber. "What are you going to do now?" Willis said. "He doesn't even work here anymore. You can't dock his pay. I don't think it's a big deal. If we lost the wild card by two games, OK. But there are so many different other factors."

Conversely, veteran catcher Rod Barajas offered a more competitive perspective. "Me, personally, I wouldn't want to give information to opposing guys when they're playing against me," Barajas said. "If it's a buddy of mine from a different league and [we're not going to face him], I might say something. You have to draw a line somewhere. You don't want to help somebody who you're competing against, even if you are best friends. I stay away from that."

Where do you draw the line?


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BigPPupMajor Leaguer
1021 days ago
Score 3+-
"Fraternizing" is part of sports. Its part of what makes playing and participating in sports so special. If friends want to help one another out with a tip here or a tip there, then it is a good thing. It is not as if they are exchanging signs or selling a playbook.
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BigPPupMajor Leaguer
1021 days ago
Score 1+-
Also, dont you "work" from home? So would that meant that "everybody" would be a couple of cats, a pair of dirty basketball shorts, and a couple of toddlers?
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1021 days ago
Score 1+-
One day, one day!!!

No I am tethered to a phone at a bland, gray desk amongst a grip of programmed drones... one day, I shall rise up and grow myself a sack to escape from the creativeless dregs!!!

I have a dream!!! (but I live in a nightmare!)
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BigPPupMajor Leaguer
1021 days ago
Score 1+-
Sounds pretty familiar I have to say. I am coowner of my own place and am still tied to a desk where I am forced to do boring task that kill my creativity.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1021 days ago
Score 3+-
ummm, these professional athletes are all in a players union together, they work with each other (playing the games), have probably crossed paths many times (college, minors, maybe even former teammates) so it's in their best interest and the league's best interest to assist in everyone's success. Deep down underneath those fancy uniforms, despite the fame and glory they are mere mortal humans, afterall... Competitiveness is one thing, but who wants to see their friends, comrades, co-workers... (even family members on occasion) fail?
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BigPPupMajor Leaguer
1021 days ago
Score 3+-
I think Manny is getting smarter from all this big time media exposure.... is he preping for a jump to the 4 letter network?!?!?
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1021 days ago
Score 2+-
Getting smarter? That's unpossible!

As the audience broadens, my ability to say what I want will narrow...

No matter what, I'm staying true to my peeps here on the 'chair!!! You guys tolerated me being an a-hole, an overcommentor and a pisser-offer... so I got ALL of your backs! Hey, the exposure I'm getting is exposure for you, too! (That's fraternization for ya!)

I'm just your friendly neighborhood stuntman... =D
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BigPPupMajor Leaguer
1021 days ago
Score 2+-
Ah geez he's all ready pulling the Barry Bonds "I am doing this for you" bit and seeking out sympathy for his new found stardom. He's already gone Hollywood.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1021 days ago
Score 2+-
I went Hollywood weeks ago when I learned how to post to Youtube!!! And then literally went TO Hollywood last week (funny story)...

AND... like Barry, my chest (40-50 inches), my gigantic head (7 1/2 - 7 3/4) and boatlike feet (12 1/2 - 14) have all grown over the same time period. Difference being... I'm 6'6, ten years younger than him and mine was due naturally existing HGH, genetics, gaining 80 lbs and probably some radiation exposure...

But unlike Charles Barkley, I will say I am a role model; but only to MY kids. (all other kids just wanna whoop my ass on the bball court)
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1021 days ago
Score 2+-
and I'm not against dressing like Paula Abdul... but I'd make a better Celine Dion (slaps self for referencing Celine Dion... then, slaps self again for doing it twice)
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BigPPupMajor Leaguer
1021 days ago
Score 1+-
MMhmm blame your problems on someone else "it was natural weight gain!" " I didnt know radiation would give me super powers"

I see how it is Manny gets famous and forgets about his roots at the Chair.

You changed man.... You change...
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BigPPupMajor Leaguer
1021 days ago
Score 1+-
Sorry... I cannot continue this conversation purely based on a Celine Dion reference. Manny my God have mercy on your soul for even thinking of such a horrid thought.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1021 days ago
Score 1+-
Thanks, BigPP...that's good isht! I just nearly pissed myself laughing and people sitting around me here at "work" are questioning my mental health (moreso than before)
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BigPPupMajor Leaguer
1021 days ago
Score 1+-
Any time Manny I am to please.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1021 days ago
Score 1+-
always a pleasure, (the original) DDub!
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Terry FooteSoccer Kid
1020 days ago
Score 0+-
Hanging out, shooting the breeze, and sharing a laugh is one thing. Giving away what I'll call competitive intelligence, is quite another. Goose Gossage wrote in his book that he looked at every batter as someone trying to take food from the mouths of his wife and children, and the Goose is right. Therefore, Girardi shouldn't have said anything to Lieber,and is dead wrong in doing so.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1020 days ago
Score 1+-
during the game, sure... but before or after the game does it REALLY affect the outcome? Besides, wouldn't you want your opponent to be at their best? Not only that, but how many times to guys give a hint to one thing just to throw them off another?
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BigPPupMajor Leaguer
1020 days ago
Score 1+-
Very true, you cannot always take what is spoken to you at face value. Yes you want to beat anyone on the opposing team, that is why we compete in athletics there has to be a loser and a winner. However, talking to a guy before or after a game and saying "hey dont dip your shoulder when your swing" or "keep your elbow in" is not going to truely affect the outcome of the game. I seriously doubt anyone is giving out information that valuable in a passing conversation before a game.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1020 days ago
Score 2+-
it reminds me of Dan Quisenberry when asked if he thought hitters were sitting on/guessing his pitches. He said (paraphrasing) "yeah, I'm hoping they know what's coming so it changes the swing that got them to the majors"
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Terry FooteSoccer Kid
1020 days ago
Score 0+-
The point really isn't whether or not the information is valuable, the point is the integrity of your team and the game. Discussing any strategic element of the game with a player of an opposing team should be strictly forbidden in principle.
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BigPPupMajor Leaguer
1020 days ago
Score 1+-
So players and coaches should never talk with players or coches from another team at any point during their playing career?
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1020 days ago
Score 1+-
and that's why I never made it to the bigs... some people are "sign stealers", I was a "sign giver"! ("psst! two fingers means curveball")
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Terry FooteSoccer Kid
1020 days ago
Score 0+-
They should never discuss anything having to do with their own strategy, no.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1020 days ago
Score 1+-
...even though their opponents, scouts, announcers, journalists, educated onlookers, ESPN Insiders and anyone who plays/played the games can usually pick up their strategies with relative ease anyway...

Announcer Bill: "Looks like a hit and run situation. Might we see a pitchout or a throw to first here Jim?"

Announcer Jim: "I don't want to talk about strategy. It's against the rules 'in principle'. You don't know if the away team is listening to our broadcast."

Announcer Bill: "Ooops, I forgot! I won't say that the pitcher just made a throw to first to keep the runner in check"

Announcer Jim: "...and don't forget to not mention that the runner and first base coach is trying to get a bead on the pitcher's pickoff move"

Announcer Bill: "I won't mention that the pitcher didn't use his best pickoff move either. But since no one talks about these things, how would I know what his best pickoff move is?"

Announcer Jim: "Doesn't matter Bill. He may or may not have a good slide step anyway."

Announcer Bill: "Isn't this exciting Jim? We have no idea what strategic maneuvers are going on here because NO ONE has mountains of video from years and years of the pitcher's, runner's or batter's idiosynchracies. Gotta love principles, Jim."

Announcer Jim: "They always work... in principle"
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BigPPupMajor Leaguer
1020 days ago
Score 1+-
So no tips on how to become a better player. Dont talk about the very thing that unifies them and gives them something in common with their coworkers. Again passing on tips on techniques will not affect the outcome of a game. Trust me if any one person has a tip or a new technique that is that special that it can change the outcome of a game or a season. They could make a lot more money off selling and marketing that that rather than playing the sport.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1020 days ago
Score 1+-
Ever considered expanding your vocabulary, BigPP? It seems you've lost a little perspicacity...
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BigPPupMajor Leaguer
1020 days ago
Score 1+-
Eh its the end of th work day, and Im trying to do too many things at once. But I wont allow work and people in my office to get in the way of my ArmchairGM even if it means a brief lost of verbage.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1020 days ago
Score 0+-
I was giving you tips and fraternizing, that's all... but don't listen to me, I'm out to get you! Or am I? Yes, I am!@!! Maybe... Just kidding (no, I'm not)... =I
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Terry FooteSoccer Kid
1020 days ago
Score 2+-
Lawyers are taught that the court room is a battlefield of words. You will see lawyers talking with each other in court about their case. You'll see them sharing a laugh with each other even when they're on opposing sides. However, I doubt you'll see two lawyers telling the other one how to beat them. Same logic applies for baseball. And I really disagree on how tips don't have an impact on the game. The difference between ESPN giving tips and MLB players is the access to quality information. Joe Morgan may be spot on most of the time, however he isn't in the know 100%. Maybe Leiber had no idea his pitches were flat, assuming that Girardi WAS telling the truth. Maybe Girardi was full of it, in which case Leiber may be listening to misinformation. Either way, it just makes for a very bad practice.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1020 days ago
Score 0+-
I'm with ya, Terry... the idea is to win the game and even the slighest edge can be the difference. I just can't resist antagonizing people! I'm pretty sure Barry Bonds doesn't go around sharing HGH secrets, for instance!
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Terry FooteSoccer Kid
1020 days ago
Score 1+-
Just Manny being Manny :) Sorry, I couldn't resist.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1020 days ago
Score 0+-
Don't resist... I'm all for it!

Ramirez is the hitting savant, Stiles is the idiot!

I always wonder what Manny could be if he wasn't being Manny?!?!
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