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Schaub not Vick in Atlanta

14
Vote

by user Rizzo42789

Michael Vick is the most electrifying athlete in the National Football League. While no one denies his ability as an open field runner, his development as a passer has slowed the progress of the Atlanta Falcons franchise.

Vick was the no. 1 overall pick in the 2001 NFL Draft, the Falcons traded Tim Dwight and the no.5 pick to the San Diego Chargers (who selected LaDainian Tomlinson). At the time, it seemed the Falcons were drafting a franchise quarterback who would lead the team to their first ever Super Bowl victory.

Vick's career started off well, with him starting 15 games in his second season with an impressive record of 9-5-1. He threw 16 touchdown passes and ran for eight more, including an incredible touchdown run in overtime to help the Falcons beat Minnesota 30-24. Building off his solid regular season Vick led the Falcons to an upset victory over Green Bay at Lambeau Field in the Wild Card game. However, the Falcons were stopped in the divisional round by the Philadelphia Eagles 20-6.

The 2003 season was a catastrophe for everyone involved with the Atlanta Falcons organization. The immortal Vick was injured in the preseason and was lost for almost the entire season, but he did start the last four games of the season and he won three of those starts. The franchise fell apart without him and finished 5-11, which was good enough for last place in the NFC South.

But things began to get better in 2004, after Dan Reeves was fired as head coach and replaced with Jim Mora Jr., as the Falcons won their first NFC South title. The club boasted a 11-5 record, with Vick starting 15 of the 16 games, his cruised to a 11-4 record. Once again the Falcons would win one playoff game (against St.Louis), but were only to be downed in the NFC title game against Philadelphia.

While all things appeared to be calm with the Falcons on the quarterback front, many thought Vick was not adjusting properly to Mora's offense, especially after his poor performance in the NFC title match. In the 2004 NFL Draft, the Falcons selected University of Virginia quarterback Matt Schaub. Many thought of him as a project, destined to be a career backup for a team with a "franchise player" like Vick.

But then the 2005 season rolled around and Vick was still not adjusting to Mora's offense. After starting the season 7-4, the Falcons fell apart down the stretch dropping 4 of their last five to finish at a disappointing 8-8.

Now while the blame should not be set all on Vick's shoulders, the Falcons need to reevaluate his value as a quarterback. Vick suffered through drops in nearly all of his statistical categories last season including:

Quarterback rating- Vick's 73.1 rating last season was his lowest in a season in which he has started at least 15 games. The number was down exactly 5 points from 2004.

Completion percentage- While Vick had always struggled in this particular category, his number dipped to 55.1 %, a drop of 1.1% from 2004, his lowest total since 2003.

Interceptions- Went up to 13 in 2005. Despite having the league's number one rushing attack to take the pressure off the passing game Vick still looked indecisive in the pocket, which should scare fans.

Rushing yards- Fell from 902 to 597, which is a horrible sign for the Falcons. It means they are trying to get Vick to stay in the pocket more, which is a poor decision because he makes more plays in the passing game while he is moving than he will ever make when he is in the pocket. The Steelers tried to do the same thing to Kordell Stewart a few years back and all it did was limit his overall effectiveness and ruin his career( which already was in jeopardy).

Vick has also looked uncomfortable in big games and after taking hits. If you can make Vick jumpy, expect a victory. However, Schaub has performed well in his limited action in the NFL. When Vick was forced out of a game against the two time defending NFL champions, the New England Patriots, Schaub performed brilliantly. He not only kept the Falcons in the game, but gave them a chance to win.

Schaub completed 18 passes for 298 yards with three touchdown passes with no interceptions. The Falcons lost the game on a field goal, but unlike when Vick is under center, they did not lose the game because of a mental error made by the quarterback. Also, later in the season against the Carolina Panthers, Schaub completed 9 of 13 passes and a touchdown pass with no interceptions to provide the Falcons with their only glimmer of pride, in a demoralizing 44-11 blowout loss.

Fans in Atlanta, I understand Vick may be the one of the most electrifying quarterbacks to every play the game, but do not lower your standards. There are quarterbacks who do not make mental errors in key parts of games which decide the fate of the season. If the Falcons want to grab their first Super Bowl title, they should start Schaub, instead of wasting all of his talent by making him stand on the sidelines with a clipboard.


Date

Mon 07/24/06, 8:25 pm EST


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CochiseWaterboy
1226 days ago
Score 3+-
Well first off let me say Falcons fan or not, you made quite a bold statement which is never a bad thing with sports. But I feel you are a bit misguided.


Matt Schaub looked great in his limited action, but that does NOT prove he can man a team for an entire season. Remember that after Vick's FIRST season as a starter people thought he was the answer to any team's problems.


You tend to take for granted what you are used to and this is what this sounds like to me. Vick is a tremendous playmaker at quarterback and excels when he is allowed to play freely. The West Coast offense never was a good idea.


What I'm trying to say is you are overreacting to one bad season. Just my take though.
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ASwaffAll-American
1226 days ago
Score 3+-
I stand by my statement that I made in 2001 that the Charges got a steal by trading down and picking up Tomlinson and Brees. Everyone called me crazy and the time and said that Vick was going to dominate in the NFL. To this day, I still feel that San Diego got the best out of that draft.
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CochiseWaterboy
1226 days ago
Score 1+-
ASwaff I don't know how much of a steal it was. Tomlinson is a great player and one of the best at his position and Brees was a top-5 quarterback for the last 2 seasons. But that only left the Chargers with one playoff berth.

Now Brees is gone and you can no longer count him. So it really is just Vick vs. Tomlinson. And Vick, quite frankly, has gotten the Falcons to the playoffs more times than Tomlinson has.

And as we all know, the only stat in football that matters are the "W"'s.
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ASwaffAll-American
1226 days ago
Score 1+-
Vick has gotten his team to the playoffs more times than Tomlinson has because his division, and really his entire conference, is weaker than what the Chargers were going up against. The AFC West has arguably been the toughest division in pro football the last five years, between the Raiders (who just recently collapsed), the Broncos and the Chiefs. Vick and the Falcons definitely wouldn't have made the playoffs coming out of that division. And just because they decided to let Brees go because they think they've got a better QB now doesn't mean it wasn't a steal. The Chargers got two top-tier players in that draft. How is that not a steal?
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CochiseWaterboy
1226 days ago
Score 1+-
My point is that Brees was NOT a top-tier player until his final two seasons in San Diego and he didn't really accomplish anything in those years. Tomlinson has been great for five years but it hasn't translated into playoff wins.


It is really too early to tell is all I meant. Maybe in five more years we can see who has more wins overall.


One thing is for sure, the Falcons are not going to drop Vick after a .500 season for a backup quarterback whose shown flashes of being a good QB.
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ASwaffAll-American
1226 days ago
Score 1+-
I agree with you there - they're not going to drop Vick for Schaub, and for good reason. Even if it's not what you hoped you'd get from Vick, you do know what you're getting. Schaub is a craps shoot. I wasn't saying they should drop Vick, I'm just saying that I think he's been overrated and had unealistic expecatations placed on him for years.
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Kil the FantasticTee-Baller
1226 days ago
Score -1+-
Wow cochise is completely dominating you, ASwaff. Brees was such a steal that they decided to invest over $40 mil and the #4 overall pick in Philip Rivers in 2004. Brees was a steal for the Saints, if he returns to last year's form, I'll give you that. But the Chargers got 1 playoff berth and in a home loss to Chad Pennington and the Jets out of Brees. The Falcons have gotten 2 playoff berths in 3 healthy seasons, 2 playoff wins, and an NFC championship game with Vick. Vick has never posted a losing record in any season, and in 2002 carried a horrible team by himself. Also, Carolina and Tampa Bay have been to the SuperBowl twice since he's been in the league, and Carolina another NFC Championship as well. The AFC West hasn't had anyone in the Super Bowl since Elway. Not sure where you're going with this one ASwaff. Both teams did well to get their guy in round 1. Pretty even if you ask me, with Vick having the slight edge as of now vs. LT (& Brees before this season).
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Kil the FantasticTee-Baller
1226 days ago
Score 0+-
Sorry if that was confusing. The Chargers one playoff berth was a home loss to the Jets. Both Carolina and Tampa Bay have gone to the SuperBowl since Vick was drafted.
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ASwaffAll-American
1226 days ago
Score 1+-
Again, San Diego being stupid enough to give up on a talented QB isn't the issue. They were building a solid team and set themselves back by going to a guy that hasn't started in the NFL yet. For what they had while Brees was there, they got the better deal, because they went from one of the worst teams in the NFL to being a contender in perhaps the best division in football, while the Falcons got one QB that still doesn't throw the ball well. Has Atlanta won more under Vick? Yes, but that's an awfully simplistic way of looking at things, without taking into account that they were playing in one of football's worst divisions in the weaker conference. If you consider what they got on the surface, I take two great players over one great player.
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DNLLegend
1226 days ago
Score 0+-
If you make Vick beat you with his arm, you'll win. But that's not easy to do. He's so good at abusing defenses that make mistakes it's truly incredible, and it's hard to see that on a stat sheet. You miss a tackle when he's scrambling and he's gone for 30 yards. Schaub is good, but if you opt for him over Vick, you're simply a classic offensive style. Does that work? Sure, but you know what you're getting and how the game will play out.
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ASwaffAll-American
1226 days ago
Score 1+-
Classic offensive styles continue to win, though. People keep saying rushing QBs are the wave of the future, but they're still not winning. Look at the QBs that have captained the last few Super Bowl winning teams: Brady, Johnson, Warner, Dilfer, Elway, Favre, Young, Aikman...almost exclusively pocket passers with "traditional offenses," and the ones that could scramble really only used their legs to get out of trouble. They weren't their primary weapon. So, I'm still waiting to see these rushing QBs win. Yes, they're electrifying. Yes, they're fun to watch. But they're not winning championships.
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ASwaffAll-American
1226 days ago
Score 0+-
Sorry, forgot Roethlisberger. Another pocket passer.
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BigPPupMajor Leaguer
1226 days ago
Score 0+-
Matt Schaub is an amazing QB, with nothing but upside coming his way in the near future. There is a reason so many teams were pushing for him last offseason. I watched him play all the way through college (still have my Shcaub for Heisman t-shirt) and he is strength is he completes high percentages of his passing (in the top5 in NC2A each year). He will take off only when he has to and can actually move a bit. Mike Vick is an amazing athlete, but not a true passer, or even a great combo runner/passer. However, he is the Falcons man for the job. Schaub could never step in and take his place. You will see Schaub next season when his contract is up and the Falcons will not pay a backup QB the starting QB money he will be worth and earning as he takes over a team.
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DNLLegend
1226 days ago
Score 0+-
I think you hit the nail on the head w/your last sentence. The reason Schaub is so sought after is that he gets backup money but would be a suitable starter (at worst). Plus, he's clearly a luxury as far as the Falcons are concerned -- that is, the Falcons could trade him and barring injury to Vick, see no change whatsoever in their team's week-to-week, on-field production. These factors drive the market for Schaub, and many people are instead assuming that Schaub is some sort of panacea for a team's QB ills. But most of the ingredients that make up the demand for Schaub are of the type unrelated to his actual abilities.
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ASwaffAll-American
1226 days ago
Score 1+-
I agree. That's why I never totally got the hype around Vick. He's not like McNabb or Vince Young, who could run but also passed for great numbers. As great a scrambler as he is, he's never been much of a passer. That's why I never understood why people thought he'd have such amazing success on the NFL level. In the NFL, you have to throw, and Vick can't.
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BigPPupMajor Leaguer
1226 days ago
Score 0+-
Also it wasnt a change in philosophy that made Kordell Stewart become a bad QB. It was Kordell who did that.
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ChristofMVP
1226 days ago
Score 1+-
Vick is a running back playing quarterback. He is the new version of Randall Cunninghm. Like Randall, Vick will never sniff the Super Bowl as a player.
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BigPPupMajor Leaguer
1226 days ago
Score 0+-
Easy their killer Randall Cunninghm, was a better passer than Vick is. Cunninghm was missed used during his early career playing under Buddy Ryan. As he got older though he became a great passer. He's the reason the Vikings had a high power offense and help make Randy Moss a superstar and gave Brian Billick a job.
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Davis21wylieMVP
1226 days ago
Score 4+-
Vick is not a great quarterback, but he has been an above-average one (even last year, when you factor in his running). Meanwhile, for Schaub, 134 career attempts + preseason action is not a huge sample upon which to base personnel decisions. Sure, Schaub lit up New England -- the <a href="http://www.f.../teamdef.php">4th-worst pass defense in football by DVOA</a> in 2005. And even with the gaudy 98.1 rating, Schaub's completion percentage in 2005 was 51.6 -- almost 4 percentage points lower than Vick's. Without playing in the West Coast offense in 2002, Vick was one of the best QB's in the entire NFL, <a href="http://www.f...s/qb2002.php">posting 82.1 DPAR passing + rushing</a>. And don't tell me he couldn't repeat that because of the injury: he had practically the same rushing performance by DPAR last season as in 2002. Point is, Vick has suddenly become (almost) underrated in the wake of last season, even though it was Atlanta's defense's fault that they went 8-8. And I think Schaub has become overrated on the basis of a small sample and the fact that people still think of the Patriots as a defensive juggernaut, coupled with the backlash against Vick for perceived underachieving.
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Davis21wylieMVP
1226 days ago
Score 0+-
Hmm... What's up with links in comments nowadays?
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IcemanvtWaterboy
1226 days ago
Score 1+-
You gotta use the wiki format. Basically ("left bracket", URL, text, "right bracket") Thus the football outsiders link becomes
[http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2002.php posting 82.1 DPAR passing + rushing]
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IcemanvtWaterboy
1226 days ago
Score 1+-
Grr, I thought I had that better. Oh, well. Basically, the anchor tag for links doesn't work in comments.
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IcemanvtWaterboy
1226 days ago
Score 0+-
Oh, and trying to shoe-horn Vick into the West Coast Offense was a horrible, horrible idea.


And since we're talking about a Mora coached team, you can't talk about Vick going to the Super Bowl. PLAYOFFS? PLAYOFFS!?!?! Don't talk about playoffs!
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Davis21wylieMVP
1226 days ago
Score 0+-
I'll repost, then, in a more readable fashion (not that it will make more sense this way):

Vick is not a great quarterback, but he has been an above-average one (even last year, when you factor in his running). Meanwhile, for Schaub, 134 career attempts + preseason action is not a huge sample upon which to base personnel decisions. Sure, Schaub lit up New England -- the 4th-worst pass defense in football by DVOA in 2005. And even with the gaudy 98.1 rating, Schaub's completion percentage in 2005 was 51.6 -- almost 4 percentage points lower than Vick's.

Without playing in the West Coast offense in 2002, Vick was one of the best QB's in the entire NFL, posting 82.1 DPAR passing + rushing. And don't tell me he couldn't repeat that because of the injury: he had practically the same rushing performance by DPAR last season as in 2002. Point is, Vick has suddenly become (almost) underrated in the wake of last season, even though it was Atlanta's defense's fault that they went 8-8. And I think Schaub has become overrated on the basis of a small sample and the fact that people still think of the Patriots as a defensive juggernaut, coupled with the backlash against Vick for perceived underachieving.
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Bleeding GreenVarsity
1226 days ago
Score 0+-
I'm amazed how Matt Schaub has been elevated to some sort of mythical John Elway level...
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Bleeding GreenVarsity
1226 days ago
Score 1+-
Reminds me about the way people in Philly would talk about AJ Feeley.
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BigPPupMajor Leaguer
1226 days ago
Score 0+-
Schaub is a solid QB and will be great under center one day. That being said every teams favorite player is the backup QB.
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WeinbdaSoccer Kid
1226 days ago
Score 1+-
We're neglecting the fantasy angle here, but I don't know why. Vick makes the Falcons a terrible fantasy team. Vick is simply inconsistent in terms of performance and health, limiting his value. When he's on, he limits the RB values by stealing yards, and limits WR values by not being able to complete most of his passes or find a regular target (Crumpler was the closest thing last season, but has his own health issues). When he's out, they bring in Schaub, who can actually throw, temporarily making the WRs worth something. Add to this TJ Duckett stealing Dunn's endzone carries, and no one is particularly valueable. In terms of actually winning games, who knows... maybe they're better with Vick. But until they move to Schaub at QB, I'm staying away in fantasy land.
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Davis21wylieMVP
1226 days ago
Score 0+-
Vick was a top-10 fantasy player last season, though.
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Davis21wylieMVP
1226 days ago
Score 0+-
Whoops, top-10 QB, that is. Not top-10 amongst all players!
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Kil the FantasticTee-Baller
1226 days ago
Score 2+-
Vick sells out more games and garners more merchandise than anybody Atlanta could possibly throw in there. As mentioned before, games with Vick are not predictable, and often spectacular despite his 200/1/2 stat lines. No matter what Vick does, he'll provide financial stability to the owners, and thus, he will never go anywhere else. That's why his agent renegotiated his contract so early and got virtually everything he asked for... he knew he had ultimate business leverage with Vick as a product, not a quarterback.
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ShrubberyVarsity Captain
1225 days ago
Score 0+-
Truth be told, it's hard to comprehend where Vick would be in his development had he not been under Dan Reeves "expert" tutalage. Reeves single-handedly stifled the growth of perhaps the best quarterback ever, John Elway. Think where Vick might be had he benefited from a coach who actually gave a darn about his future. Trust me, if Elway had Shanahan as his coach for more than a few years all those records put up by Marino would be a mere after thought.
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Djcfla1Varsity
1225 days ago
Score 0+-
Schaub is tha man. If Atlanta wants to sniff playoff success they need to put Schaub in at QB. No one except Vick is allowed to use the excuse "I'm learning a new system" with 7 years (or whatever it is) of experience. As a QB Vick is closer to Craig Krenzel then Brad Johnson. And that sums up Vick's abilities as an NFL QB. If he couldn't run he would be out of the league. Realistically he's a freakishly athletic Scott Mitchell. Schaub is a solid QB and the Falcons know this. If they were sold on Vick they would have traded Schaub in the off-season. Several teams were interested in him over the QBs in the draft.
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Davis21wylieMVP
1225 days ago
Score 0+-
Satire?
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