Save Hockey In Pittsburgh

Ya I know, as former Mayor Tom Murphy said when the bill was proposed, "the fix is in." To bad, because the politicians are screwing a good hockey city. Im just glad they didn't screw the Steelers or Pirates a few years back.

Yeah, Im a Caps fan and nothing makes me happier than watching the Peguins struggle. However, they need to be in Pitt thats where they belong. The fact that the state of Penn could not issue that permit is a shame. If Pitt loses their team it will be a black eye on the entire state of Penn.

I fervently believe that if there was money to be made in hockey in Pittsburgh, someone would keep them there. The black eye is on hockey itself, if anything. If the NHL can't create a situation where teams can stay in business, it is to blame when they move to more profitable places. Pittsburgh is NOT a particularly profitable sports town, and the reason the Steelers survive is because they only need to sell out 8 games a year, and the NFL is practically communist (Which is quite good for the game, mind you). It's time Las Vegas gets a franchise.

If the NFL is communist than that means it's un-American. Therefore I like it even more. Thanks for the insight!!

Pnatt, thanks for the DV. It's like a hug and a thumbs up from Manny.

Sorry. I don't buy it. People made the same argument when the Nordiques moved. Pittsburgh is a great sports town with passionate fans, but not enough to financially support the team and make them economically viable. I'm just not seeing how this will hurt the league "tremendously." Frankly, the southern movement of teams has been generally successful and I guarantee a team in Vegas, or even in KC, will expand the leagues reach and bring in more dollars.

Your just mad the Rangers are choking, and are starting the fall out of the playoff race.

Rangers out of the running for a the cup? Hows that different than any other season?

My rangers bitterness matters why? At least I can spell "you're" as in you are. You'll never get into Duke that way, kiddo.

I think the rangers organization is a disaster, but they are in a market that can absorb the ludicrousness of the Dolan ownership. If they owned the Pens, they would have folded years ago. You are lucky Super Mario held on for this long.

Your failure to understand the reality of the business is astounding.

Every time Vegas gets shot down, it is because of the gambling, not because of support. Every minor league team there does great, it has a huge population, and a lot of money. Either way, it has more financial potential than Pittsburgh. As you admit, so does KC.

As for your second paragraph, it is very simple. Bangor Maine might be a hotbed of hockey, but they'll NEVER get a team because a team could not stay in business there. Pittsburgh can not financially function. It is a horrible shame, but it is a fact. It is why, as I said before, that Quebec (a much bigger hockey town) lost its team, and why all the other Canadian franchises had to move. Pittsburgh is in a similar situation to Hartford when they lost the Whalers.

It is a damn shame but there is nothing else to be done, short of Mark Cuban building an arena himself. That would be an amazing development.

Well the gambling in Vegas is a big deal (not to me) and considering the fact that hockeys biggest face is already linked to a gambling scandle I doubt the NHL would want to tred onto that thin ice. I know business, and how things work, its all I do all day long. For that reason I understand why Pittsburgh is a bad city for a franchise, and why Vegas and other cities could work. However, I am from small time America and get tired of watching big business come in and destroy stuff. I have grown tired of watching the all mighty dollar control everything despite the efforts, feelings, and emotions of the fans and population. For those reasons I want hockey to remain in Pittsburgh.

Don't get me wrong. I understand WHY it would be nice for them to stay. It will not be the same without them. It sucks. However, unless the rest of league wants to financially support them, the Pens cannot survive in the Steel City. Not without an arena that the people don't want to pay for, and the board just voted away. They've been holding on by a thread for what, 5-10 years now?

No I understand the logistics of it all. I just cannot believe that the city of Pittsburgh and the state of Penn would allow this to happen.

At what cost? Should the state spend a quarter of a billion to save the Pens, rather than improving schools? Hell, have you ever driven the Penn turnpike? The money is better spent there.

I agree, schools roads and all that good stuff are very important and thats where tax dollars should go. However, the state could help, to give the Pens some wiggle room in regards to zoning, and breaks on other things in getting a new stadium.

Whats with you and Australia? I mean that country does nothing for the world as a whole, why the hell would we want to strengthen ties with them?

Maybe coz Australia is one the few allies that United States still has left?

And Australia's image is squeaky clean: http://www.m...;in_page_id=

Why do that for? The Pens have to earn their own cash. There's no such thing as a free ticket in the American Empire.

Its a nice gesture, but what's your plan to make them economically soluble long term? You'd have to have a million people donate $250. Pittsburgh's population as of the 2000 census? 334,563. It would be roughly $747 per resident.

Don't get me wrong. It must be horrible to lose your team. I shared a dorm room with a Browns fan when they moved. Unfortunately for you, that was because their ownership was a jerk. This is pure economics.

Mario said today "The team is off the market, and we will begin to explore relocation offers in cities outside Pennsylvania." ... "I'm not sure about Plan B. Plan B, in my opinion, is going to use taxpayers' money. I've never heard of a government turning down $290 million in private money to build a public facility. It's unheard of. At this point, frankly, I'm really not sure of what's going to come of it."

He's trying to let you down easy. If he can't save the team, it's not going to be done. It sucks, but perhaps its time to become a ducks fan? (Easier said than done, I know)

Gotta love it, theres not loyalty in sports it all comes down to money. The NHL has made some poor moves in the past and as Ive said before losing a team in Pitt would be up at the top of that list.

But what's the option? What can you do? Is your beef with the gambling comission? Frankly, I don't even think a new arena would be profitable enough for the Pens. As far as I can tell, it's not about loyalty, it's about the sad decision that they either go out of business or move out of town. Either way, they are gone.

A new arena should be profitable. Explain why they don't make profit even by selling out every game again? I know its true I just don't get how its possible. And where the hell is Mark Cuban. He wanted to buy the team, why not buy them an arena and buy the team? It would double the value.

Who pays the operating costs of the Arena? Who does the team have to pay for the rights? Who gets the profits? What portion goes to the team. It is not just that it's there, its where do the revenues and costs go. If the state builds it, the state wants to get paid for it, through rent, concessions, etc. It wont be free. It costs more to run a team than just what the Pens can get from their portion of stadium proceeds, licensing, and so on. In smaller markets, some times the numbers don't add up, even if the Arena is full.

Games at MCI..er Verizon are ALWAYS full opposing fans, because D.C. is full of tons of out-of-staters. I went to U of MD and I was at every Rangers game there. D.C. is weird that way. I take the opposite side. I know it sucks, but if the team goes elsewhere and thrives, it helps the league overall, and right now the entire league is in dire need of help.

I know if the team leaves and does well then theres egg on my face, and everyone looks great for moving the team. I just am not sure how well moving a NHL team will go. We are talking about a sport that is basically functioning as a startup league right now. To lose one of its mainstay markets is a huge risk.

I'll go back to the move of the Nordiques. Certainly, the league has been better off with them in Colorado than Quebec. By the way, Las Vegas Population? 545,147 and growing rapidly. Pittsburgh is shrinking.

You are right though, DC is a screw sports city since no on is from here.

The population is grow, but hockey is a different product. Its not a mainstream sport despite what people say. Hell even MLS gets more coverage than hockey now. Im not saying all that is right but its the way it is.

Still, more people equals more fan opportunities. If there were no gambling in Vegas, it would have 2-3 teams by now. It's where the Nats would be. It might even be where the hornets would have wound up.

If there was no gambling in Vegas, it would be a street in the desert. Colorado took to a hockey team because it has a hockey climate. People ski and snowboard and they are used to winter activities. People living in the desert dont skate and spend that time doing those sort of things. Not saying it cant work, but creates yet another uphill battle for a struggling sport.

You mean like in L.A.? Anaheim? Atlanta? Florida x2? Dallas? Those teams are very popular.

Or Phoenix? Dammit I forgot Phoenix.

I knew you were going to say that, like I said not impossible for hockey to take root Vegas. However LA had Gretzky, Anaheim had massive money backing it. The Florida teams caught early success but their numbers have fluctuated same for ATL. Again I know it can work, just not sure you want Hockey to be the experimental sport for Vegas.

Gambling or no, Vegas should at least try an NBA team and see how that goes. If it goes well, try another sport. NBA is so corrupt anyways the gambling shouldn't matter.

Kings came into the League in 1967. Gretzky didn't arrive until 1988. Come on man. Admit it could work. Vegas is Phoenix with more money and a faster growing population.

Never said it cant work. I think it has a shot. But I also think theres a good chance it could fail. Id like to see another sport take root in Vegas first, something thats more mainstream and well known.

Whoa. Phoenix is a crappy hockey town. And there's more "money" in Arizona than in Vegas and Phoenix is MUCh bigger and faster growing than Vegas. Don't assume...

Except if you look, Vegas is growing faster than Phoenix. Check the Census. Yes phoenix is bigger, but the Coyotes do better financially than the Pens. Point is Vegas, a growing city almost twice the size as Pittsburgh, a shrinking city, will do better.

Vegas could either go to the Central or better, the Pacific. (If they go to the Pacific, the Stars move to the Central) The could move Nashville to the Southeast and The Caps back to the Atlantic where they belong. The Atlantic would be the I-95 division again with 5 teams within 5 hours drive!

That's what I'm talking about. The longest in-division trip you would have would be a trip to the Isles. I could then resume HATING the caps again, rather than just being disinterested. I certainly can still have some more hate after the Flyers, Devils, and Fishermen.

Very true, cant say Im making that trip up north to watch another team, but at least I have more of a reason to hate them when the come down to Chinatown.

two faced*

I am only going to assume that you are kidding. If you just seriously called him a bum, you deserve to have your fan license revoked. I know you are too young to remember the championships, but that's insane.

You've said some stupid things in the past, but this might just be the worst. To say Lemieux is a bum and always has been is rediculous! Did he not fight and beat cancer to come back and play for the Penguins? Did he not lead them two Stanley Cup championships? Not to mention buying the team out of bankrupcy in '99. Those are just a few things on his resume. But yeah you're right, he's done nothing for the Pittsburgh organization...

And I quote "Mario is a teo faced bum. He never saved hockey in Pittsburgh, because he never built an arena. Just like when he played for team Canada and was to tired to play the second half for the Pens. hes a bum and always has been." He has been fine off the ice, trying everything he could to get the team more money and a new arena. Blame the city, blame the world, blame modern economics. Do not blame Mario Lemiuex

bought the team?

He was given a share of ownership in lieu of pay they owed him. He didn't buy it exactly, but he did take some ownership.

Dukie name one thing HE specifically did wrong. If you really want to blame Mario Lemiuex for the Pens problems, you really are even stupider than I thought.

I have to keep reminding myself you were born in 1988 in order to have some perspective. If you really consider yourself a sportswriter, you have a lot of studying up to do.

For one taking the team off the market. Keeps them from getting an owner with real money to back the team. Two, he is not looking for other options for a stadium despite what he says. And third, he showed his real character when he played for team Canada, promised he would return to the NHL after the Winter Games, and didn't because he was to tired. Myabe you shouldn't hide behind an AF and be a real man.

That was me kiddo, didn't log in. You have really entered Pnatt levels here. Just admit you are wrong and gains some respect back.