Revisiting Racial Overtones in American Sports - Part I

The title has nothing to do with the article which has nothing to do with sports. Nice Rant, there are more appropriate forums for this stuff where people will HAPPILY engage in pleasuring your ego... Can we raise the old Wendy's lady from the dead to say "Where's the Sports?" for us???

Say 'good night' Gracie!

I've said it before I'll say it again: Keep the Sports-Politics Realm to Jim Bunning, Lynn Swann, Steve Largent, Bill Bradley, otherwise we're here for SPORTS

See my comment below. Manny's little empire is crumbling and he doesn't like it.

If it were crumbling, he'd have lots of minuses, and you'd have lots of plusses surely?

Ivory towers crumble, strong foundations catch them... Maybe you're coming back to earth sometime soon? I'll be waiting graciously...

Yes, and that could certainly go both ways correct?

I don't know who you are, so I have to say no. But even if I did, I can't recall a single article that starts off with something like "The Jay the Joke cretins probably can't read, so I don't know why I'm wasting my time..."

Actually when Manny resorting to name calling (asshole), implication of lying about race and threats of physical violence and receives POSITIVE POINT FEEDBACK from his adoring peers, sometimes the truth albeit harsh must be expressed.

Unfortunatly DNL a few people actually wrote that being a slave was better off than being free- I think Tyrone didn't like that--

Tyrone: Your article reflects poorly on your. Very poorly. And obviously so. I'm sorry you can't see that.

So then are you saying that initial distrust is proper? Actually I am just here for the ride. It is getting humorous to watch supposed intellectuals go at it like grade school kids. I can see some points from both sides. However, If you don't agree with something don't comment. Also, don't assume all of your new posters are all from Jay the Joke or are cretins. See, another "example" of early name calling for no reason. And yes, I know it was an example to make a point.

I don't assume that *anyone* from JtJ is cretins. If I did, I never would have gone over there and invited you/them to write up some pages (e.g. Jay Mariotti) here. That's the point. No one here wrote an article which started off with the type of ad hominem attack that Tyrone's, above, started with. And it reflects poorly on Tyrone.

Yes, but the slave comparisons from yesterday weren't that good either. However, you do have to admit that Jamel made a very good case for beer costing less than $6.

It is not the articles that can be bad. It can be the discussion that is ineffective.

Quite frankly, I would like to hear from a black man what he thinks about racial politics and how it relates to sports since I not being black may have a different view. That has a chance for a strong discussion.

Sorry Dan, but this little rat ship in the past 24 hours has reinforced a positive fiscal argument FAVORING slavery (better than dead?), hurled profanity at my fellow African American counterpart (Jamel) and threatened physical violence (Manny). Currying positive point feedback simply to appease this misguided collaboration of posters probably is going to be garnered but may serve beneficial down the road. And give this series a chance. Minds might actually be broadened and real thought-provoking discussion could be produced. This was just a prelim "pilot". More to follow that hopefully will not disappoint. And no worries about the aspect of sports. This critical component will be installed.

This is pretty deep.

If you'd like to hear what anyone thinks, stop insulting your readers. That's all I'm saying.

Like I said that goes both ways. Comment about the article not the writer. Have we not learned anything here?

See? "Rat ship".

I read that and you lost credibility after that. You may be making a good point but I'm willing to bet that it was lost on everyone because your tone is insulting and has been since the beginning. Most of the users here already have built a rapport with the others. You haven't. Instead, you demand respect and consideration that you haven't earned, and when you don't get it, you turn to insults.

Read your article again. Imagine that you were the subject instead of the author. How would you react?

Damn it. Read my last comment and think.

"yeah, asshole works well

Where do you get off in taking offense to it if it isn't true? "

Dan, the above sentence was quoted from Manny.... so I guess the only people who will be offened by this column are those who think it is true in regards to themselves. Well done Manny.

Dan - For 15 years, Jay Mariotti has treated his readers far worse than anything I've posted here.

Then tell Jay all about it. In all my almost year on the Armchair I never met someone who wanted to argue over ever comment and skewed it every time to fit his game. BUT I don't have to say it every other comment

Your best defense is "At least I'm better than Jay Mariotti?"

A bunch of regular posters yesterday actually post comments that favor slavery and not an eye bats from anyone with authority or responsibility here at ArmchairGM. Yet, I post a little prelude into an actual thought provoking topic that actually HAS REAL MEANING and look at the response. So let me get this right Dan, talk of slavery is okay but a black perspective into the world of sports and racism is inappropriate? Would you have preferred SLAVE ship over RAT ship?

Read above. It's a framing issue. You come in and insult people and you can't expect their replied to be respectful. I'm positive that yesterday's comments were part of an on-going conversation. I'm also positive that in reading the first few lines of your article, you insulted your readership. You asked me on JtJ how I found success as a freelance sportswriter. I should have added "always respect your audience". That's the most fundamental rule. That Mariotti violates it is why his so disliked. Don't be Mariotti.

I have no intention to coddle an audience that includes members threatening physical violence and advocating slavery. There is never a valid excuse for either point.

Dan, I am not trying to take side. I am really not. However, respect should be something that is given a person till they have a reason to lose it. Why should we have to earn respect. By having to earn respect, you are more or less boxing every new comer into the category of lesser until they hit a certian point thus unintentially maybe undermining what you perceive as credibility to an argument. Everry person should be given trust and credibility and respect from the get go until they give a reason not too. Its disrespectful not to do that. Cant we all respect one another?

No need to coddle.

But no need to insult.

You could easily write this article without insulting your readership. In fact, it took a lot more effort to insult than it would have not to.

Dan go ahead and ask any guy from my neighborhood what is more insulting - being called out as an elitist college punk or suggesting the positive merits of slavery. The thin hypocritical hide of ArmchairGM has been exposed.

AF #3: You're right. I should have said "familiarity" or something like that.

Tyrone: You can argue all you want, but you're wrong as long as you insult your audience. That doesn't apply only to you. It's kindergarten: Two wrongs don't make a right.

That's basic, and that's all I've said, and all I've been saying.

I'm going to move onto another article now.

Sure chastise the black guy for calling out the college kids but grant a free pass towards the PRO-SLAVERY faction. Yeah, it is pretty clear that there are no racial overtones here at all.

So why'd you click the link?

To see what mess lay in store.

Curiousity killed the cat. Satisfaction brought him back. Are you satisified now Alex?

Why can't a black guy express a view here at ArmchairGM? I've said nothing profane and showed remarkable restraint even after the suggestion that my ancestory was better off "enslaved". Try making that suggestion in my neighborhood. Fists and concrete physically hurt a heck of a lot more than words on an Internet blog.

the most profane thing you've done Tyrone is Not talk about anything SPorts pertinent

Ask any black athlete if a discussion of racism in sports is relevant. To be discussed in the future. No worries.

Manny, sorry buddy but you are the one that resorted to threats of physical violence, not me. Not anyone else. And that is the truth.

and I'm not evven close to as ANY of the descriptions you list, and just because you can't see beyond race doesn't mean I can't. I've seen more racist people than you will ever (white and black) My white mom lived with a large black man from when I was 12 until I was 22 and I lived with them. And I saw racism and hatred and things painted on my house that you never dealt with. So shut up, you aren't the only person on this planet with something to bitch about and write about effing sports (yes, there is racism in sports, too BUT ADD THE SPORTS) stop teetotalling over ever little comment you can (we can ALL copy and paste too) and GROW UP.

If you're here for sports then you're at the right place, Welcome... maybe now that we understand each other we can have fun!

Plenty of other Wikis down there to check out otherwise

not me. Not anyone else. And that is the truth.

Ah so I suppose you learned through past environmental experiences to manage conflict through physical violence? I get it now, you are just a VICTIM and cannot be held accountable to your threats of physical abuse. Any plans to carry that type of mentality forward?

Where do you get off thinking you had it worse than me???

"I've seen more racist people than you will ever (white and black)"-- how the heck do you know what my life has been like?? How do you know what has come my way?? How do you know that I have been beaten and left for dead on the streets of rich north shore in chicago-- not the south side of chicago--- but a rich white suburb of chicago--- how do you know that my face wasn't beaten so bad I have a glass eye on my left side-- how do you know that 3 of my ribs were fractured and my front teeth were kicked out?-- how do you know that my car was vandilized, flipt, burnt, and had the "N" word written on it? How do you know that I was hit by a baseball bat for making out with a white girl when I was 16? This all happened in a white rich suburb-- so don't tell me you have SEEN more racist people than me- I have PHYSICALLY had it happen to me- how dare you Manny!!!

See this is what I mean-- digging holes you can't possibly get out of

You blame what you know the best, eh?

You don't know what you don't know. Too bad, because you're gonna learn it right as it's too late.

I never threatened you physically. Sure I could beat you to a pulp, but what would I gain? Would I feel better about myself for kicking the ass of someone who like a small child finds pleasure in picking on kids until a bully beats him up and he runs to Mommy? (don't I get enough of this from my 3 year old?)

Dan is not your Mommy.

If your intention is to get ME to leave. Then I can make your wishes come true. See how that goes over.

So, Cowboy, now that you've finally got my attention. What's your move? Oh, you ain't got one?

You want to impress me so much. You clearly haven't read my signals (SPORTS SPORTS SPORTS) it sounds like you got a problem. You want Jay. You can't have him and now you're after me... Sorry pal, you STILL have a problem.

I sure hope you aren't talking about me on that last post Manny-- I sure hope....

I'm mad now. This is absolutely ridiculous thinking-- you know what I was against this column of Tyrones- I thought it was crap and that it wasn't needed anymore-- guess I'm wrong-- damn it-- this sickens me when I still read crap like this-- good for you Tyrone-- damn, why did you have to prove Tyrone right Manny? Why?

You're right. We should respect the experiences of others. There's no contest, no reward, for being the person who had it worse. Manny shouldn't assume that your life has been easier than his, or vice versa. We're all mostly strangers, and shouldn't assume anything about the others. Mutual respect demands it.

I am going to have to agree here. Manny quit stirring it up. Tyrone write the article and let the chips fall where they may. Have a good evening gentlemen. And, yes, I used that term loosely.

DNL- not speaking for Tyrone but that is my point-- I have never started any of this- I never intented my column to generate conversations about slavery, racism, etc etc- who has a bigger penis.... it was all commented first by certain individuals who ultimately stuck their foot in their mouths and couldn't get them out-- just like the above example-- these are the youths of america who will one day run the country that my child will grow up in-- it scares me

You prove your point, Jamel. You show the world. You're bigger than ALL of this. You're still going to sleep in the same bed tonight. Fool.

Think about this; of all the problems you've had (or think you've had) and you never once had to think about where you were getting your drinking water the next day, did you?

Shut up. You just make yourself sound stupider each time you think you're smart.

You don't have problems. You never had reral problems. You are on a computer right now arguing over nothing. That's freedom.

People are dead and dying right now. People have cancer and AIDS and are starving and are dying because they HAVE NO WATER... but You have problems...

You're problem is we don't play the violin loud enough for you...

Got problems with Mom or Dad...??? congratulations, about 3 billion people WISH they had a Mom or Dad still around.

Fool.

Sounds like Manny wants to smack some sense into Jamel...

Manny, why the hostility. That makes you sound dumber yourself. Were you bated, or are you just baiting? Please discuss further a non-sport related issue and enlighten us with the religous brilliance the is the Rev. Manny. Please preach to us oh wise one. Lead us out of temptation and back to the flock of goodness. Manny, you can be just ass full of crap as the next gut. Just because you say it loud and with conviction does not make it right.

Manny is undoubtedly the most hostile hateful profane violent ordained minister I've ever encountered.

Once again you have no idea- I have shared before that my family was very very poor until I was 12-- I lived on the southside so yes I do know exactely what it was like growing up drinking dirty water, having no food to eat, wearing the same clothes day in and day out-- and guess what? My father didn't give up- he didn't say this is who we are- he kept working hard and a nice man gave him the chance he deserved- my father made his money and from then on my life changed-- but don't you dare say I didn't have hardships in my life or experience poorness.

And less I am wrong- are you also not on a computer right now arguing. And no I didn't have problems with my mom and dad- who said I did.

Again, I never brought this up- you did Manny. You are losing your mind.

Don't assume I lived a life that I didn't- don't judge people-- I'm not judging you.

We can get to be ordained ministers out of the back of Rolling Stone or High Times as well.

Kudos to you all. and Jamel, I lost my mind a long time ago.... I just keep it together in a really acceptable fashion to the public. It's not where you've been, it's where you're at... I was in Tampa a month ago in the lockerroom talking to players and blogging in front front of TV cameras, now I'm battling twits with you... how the mighty fall...

Tyrone, I'll be the most honest mirror you'll ever bounce comments off of... I appreciate your display of moderate brain power and motor co-ordination, but you REALLY gotta stop blaming me of things you feel guilty for...

Well I just suppose somebody out there is obligated to pay attention to those tenacious Tampa Bay Devil Rays but how does a stay-at-home dedicated parent have the luxury of time to pal around with such illustrious ballplayers?

Sorry Manny- I just want you to answer one question for me- Who do you think you are telling my what my life was/is/and will be?