Prayer for the slain at Virginia Tech
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by user Douglasvgibbs
I know this is a sports site, and I am a regular contributor to Armchairgm with my sports opinions. But this is a story that must be talked about, and prayed about.
Prayer for those in the crossfire
I spent most of my day yesterday behind the wheel of a big rig transporting equipment between Orange County, San Bernardino County, and Riverside County in Southern California. When days like this come up where I spend most of my day driving, it enables me to spend a lot of time listening to the radio. I was shocked at the events developing at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Virginia.
A gunman went on a rampage, reportedly killing 32 plus himself, and injuring twenty plus, in the most horrific and worst mass killing in the history of the United States. This campus shooting began, authorities believe, with a killing of two in a dormatory, and then two hours later, equipped with a 9mm and .22 caliber weapon, and a jacket of clips, the gunman went from class to class at Norris Hall killing at will.
On Michelle Malkin's site, an e-mail from a student at Virginia Tech that had been trapped in one of the classrooms, baracaded as the shooter fires shots through the door they blocked only seconds before, gives a chilling first-hand account of the events.
I have no opinion on yesterday's events other than that they are chilling, and that thoughts of my wife who goes to a local university in pursuit of her bachelors degree, and my children who are roughly the same age as the students at Virginia Tech, came to mind. My prayers go out to those slain, to the parents of those gunned down, and to the students who survived, but will be affected by this for the rest of their lives.
Pray with me for their healing.
After 35 died in the Port Arthur massacre in Tasmania, Australia passed gun reform laws. Port Arthur was the thirteenth mass shooting in eighteen years. There have been none in the eleven years since.
Meanwhile, Americans keep claiming their right to bear arms in the name of self defense, and these slayings keep occurring."For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."
I bring this quote up first in regards to the guns debate. To be honest with you, banning guns in the United States today or tomorrow would do more harm than good. First, you take away government regulation and oversight of guns. Second, you are creating a black market for gun smuggling. (Think how lawful prohibition was, and apply that to this situation. It would be bad, real bad). Third, by banning guns, you are not solving the problem, you are just tinkering with an option that could be used. Other instruments of violence are still readily available, and that includes the black-market for guns that would develop if guns were banned.
The real problem here is how popular culture and society views life. Today, popular culture, for the most part, demeans and mocks the individual, and devalues human life. Throw in the fact that many people are emotionally insecure and mentally unstable on top of the culture the celebrates destruction, and this is what you get.
My prayers are with those who lost their lives and their families. This, however, will not be the last such tragedy. Actually, I am surprised that it took this long for something like this to occur. I figured that within a year or two of Columbine, which, by the way also happened 8 years ago this week, this type of bloodshed would hit college campuses. Maybe 9/11 slowed it down. Who knows.
Another area of concern is sporting events. It is only a matter of time before someone 1. goes postal at a stadium, be it for a college or pro event, 2. straps himself with a bomb and blows himself up, along with others near him at a sporting event, 3. uses some sort of chemcial weapon at a stadium, or 4. pilots a small plane into a crowded stadium.
Nonetheless, this is the time to mourn those lost in this mayhem. It is also a time to discuss the causes for such as an event. However, for those who think banning or limited guns will prevent the next tragedy, my friends, you are off base. The real problem is not the gun, rather, the real problem is popular culture and society in general.Again, pre-Port Arthur—13 mass shootings in 18 years. Post-Port Arthur—0 mass shootings in 11 years.
I'll take Alex's word for it that these mass shootings don't occur in Britain, either, where even the police don't carry guns. I read a similar report from the UK on another site.This didn't get much play in the mass media (what a surprise) last week, but Tony Blair made some quite provocative comments. Addressing the increase in crime and violence in London, Blair place blame for this on "black culture." Now, I would not use the term "black culture" like Blair did, but I would agree with him that the gangsta, punk, lie, screw and cheat culture that is the center of popluar culture in the United States these days are to blame for the increase in crime and violence(looks like this is also beginning to hit England, based on Blair's comments).
The sad thing is, nothing will be done about this in the near future. We must first go lower and hit rock bottom before people will say enough is enough. This is because 1. people in power (entertainment industry and media in general) are making mad $$ and don't feel like changing a thing, 2. politicians are afraid to speak up because a. we are trying to live in a guilt free society, so b. to speak up means to place blame, which results in c. folks spending money against you and running against you and d. that means you are soon to be out of elected office.
And don't take this personally, but to be honest, the US gun laws are completely stupid. If Europe can survive without them, USA can too.
Condolenses BigPPup.Gun laws may have prevented what happened at Va Tech, but its not the answer to stop all violence. Alex you know that, you can open any English or Irish history book and read what happened during the Terrors in England. The same kid who shot 31 people in BLacksburg had just called in 2 bomb threats the week before.
Its the people that need to be fixed and helped. Not the weapons.This, however, is the real world. The first shooting occurred at 7:15 am. Police immediately respond. The first order of business is to secure the immediate area, get help for the victims, and then start investigating. The fact that information about the shooting was released two hours after the incident is reasonable.
Now, some are arguing that information should have been released earlier. Well, what exactly should have been released. There was a shooting and ??? Remember, simply reporting something may also have negative impacts - such as causing fear and panic. There are times when it is better to get the facts straight and then make a public announcement. Sure, we live in a world of 24 hour news channels, and people tend to forget that above mention rule when reporting events.
As far as a lock down - are you kidding me? I grew up in Philadelphia. I went to and graduated from Penn, in the heart of West Philly. There is a shooting in Philadelphia nearly every hour, and a murder every day. Does the city "lock down" every time a shooting or murder occurs.
And another thing - does anyone else think it is strange that people are calling for campuses o lock down? Are students prisoners now?
I understand people are upset and angry that such a tragic event occurred. Playing the blame game, however, right now, when few of the facts are publicly know, is not the right thing to do. There will be time to review what occurred, and see what did and did not work.As far as the two hours, it seems appropriate. Shooting occurs, police are called, police respond, crime site is secured, victims are treated, investigation begins. This takes time.
Now, it must be noted that the dorm where the first shooting occurred did go into lock-down immediately. As far as notifying the rest of the university, one that has over 26,000 students, I think it is more appropriate to first get the facts before notifying others about the situation. I think, otherwise, you are risking mass panic and ultimately, it may lead to more harm than good. Simply put, the costs of what you want done far outweighs the benefits that it would produce.The blame also goes to the University for failure to aknowledge a problem.
Read what he wrote:
WARNING: the plays contain profanity and scenes with disturbing content.
That being said, Va Tech can be blamed for a lot of things, ruining my dreams as a UVA fan, having the most vocal alumni base in Virginia, but its not the schools fault for what happened on Monday. People must remember, that a school like Va Tech with 26000 students is like a small town. Matter of fact it basically is the population of Blacksburg. Three weeks from now when the semister lets out that downs population drops to like 10000 people. My point is, its difficult to make a broad sweeping announcement across an entire community. Its not like Va Tech is a High School that has a loudspeaker system in every room. There was a 2 hour lag in the shootings, but when that guy left the dorms I gurantee that no one had a clue he was heading across campus to launch an assault on a classroom.
Va Tech has done a great job maintaining itself in the wake of this travisty. I only hope that prospective students and their parents realize that this incident was random senseless and crazy, but it does not represent the Va Tech or the Blacksburg community.Sounds like lax gun laws are the way to go.
Spare me the rhetoric over the right to bear arms for self defense. Has there ever been an incident when an innocent and responsible gun owner was able to save the day and prevent an attack by wielding their own concealed handgun? The logic for less gun control and vigilante justice is laughable; as if we're living in Tombstone. Does it make more sense to put guns into the hands of 26,000 college students or to take the gun out of the hand of 1 individual? There is heaps of scientific evidence that shows if guns are less accessible there is less violence, full stop. I may be a red-blooded southern American, but I've got sense enough to trust scientists over Charlton Heston.
I'm not interested in hearing "now is not the time." We need to get our heads out of the sand and start taking responsibility for the ethics of our country.I have been around guns all of my life. My dad is still a police detective (in Philly). I am an Eagle Scout. I have fired guns and rifles in the past, and will do so in the future. I have, however, a great deal of respect for what a gun can do and what damage it can inflict.
Now to turn a gun and fire out a fellow human, that is something I have never done, and hope to never do. It takes a lot to fire a gun at a human, with the knowledge of what the end result is likely going to be. And that is the PROBLEM. people know what the harm is going to be, yet they still fire away. Taking away the legal gun may initially slow the murder rate, but it will quickly increase and likely surpass the past murder rate - be it through the use of illegal guns and / or other weapons of violence.But I'm not sure that is the same thing. Violence escalated around Prohibition because people wanted their alcohol. I don't see the same thing happening in regards to gun control. Violence escalates because people want guns? They don't have the guns to commit the violence. I think your case calls for a leap to some degree.
I admit my argument (Australia and the UK) also requires a leap—would the results there be replicated in the US? My defense for the leap is that these are Western countries that are very similar to the US. I think the leap is justified.http://www.w.../detail.html
Now, you are telling me that he would not discover a black-market source for a gun. I think, he would. And even if he did not, he would find another means to do a mass murder. Instead of a gun, he could just head to the local Wal-Mart to buy household cleaners and chemicals, and either make a bomb or a chemical weapon. You know that the recipe for such things are available over the Net.
So again, I will state that stricter gun laws would not have pervented this shooting.Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.–Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790) My prayers and condolences to the victims, their families, and anyone else associated with Virginia Tech.
Handguns, riffles, and whatever else are already all over the US and in peoples households. So putting a gun law is not going ot make all those guns just magically go away. What it actually does is it makes them go under the radar because they will be illegal, and a tracking system for them will not exist.
Gun laws are not the answer. Fix the people not the gun.But that isn't the same thing. You are correct about the guns already out there. What Australia did was have a government run buy back program. Not everyone turned their gun in, but many did, taking all of those guns out of circulation and off the streets.
If not a gun ban (which I have not called for, by the way), can we at least agree on stricter regulation of guns? I haven't checked for updates the past few hours, but last I heard, the VTech perp had a receipt for at least one of his guns and had been identified as having emotional issues and violent tendencies. There is no reason he should have been allowed to buy a gun.I know, your reply will likely be to give mental / emotional tests to individuals who want to buy guns. However, those exams will be made public, and you can easily circumvent them (i.e. - give false answers).
Remember the V-Tech shooter filed out the serial # on those guns. He planned this out long and hard. Stricter gun laws would not have prevented this shooting.Virginia does require a permit to carry a concealed weapon.
Discuss."I think when a guy walks in and shoots 32 people it's going to cause there to be a lot of policy debate. Now is not the time to do the debate until we're actually certain about what happened."
Dear Mr. President: If you are uncertain about what happened, allow me to explain: A guy walked in and shot 32 people.
Luby's, Columbine, Amish schoolchildren, V Tech students and faculty...How many times does this have to happen before we get real action from our policymakers?I do not agree that we cannot change society. Society is a creation of mankind. If we created it, we can change it. It won't be easy, but it is possible.
And you are also correct about parents. One of the core factors as to the increase in violence is a culture and society that is filled with 1 parent or no parent households. Many parents are not parenting, and when their kids screw up, claim that their kids are good. This, however, can quickly change, if peer pressure is increased.Yes, it is true, that he was unstable. However, unless you want to permit the government to obtain all counseling records a person has, it would never come up.
And Dre-Lo - you made excellent points here!2001: 5.6 2002: 5.6 2003: 5.7 2004: 5.5 2005: 5.6
FBI data runs out in 2005. NY and Philly's rates have exploded recently, which may or may not be statistically significant.
I guess my point on the abortion-prevents-crime thing is that each side of the gun-control debate is right -- and wrong. Crime dropped significantly in the early 90's, and nobody knew why. They thought maybe it was tougher gun laws, etc., but it turned out to be the simple fact that abortions became frequent about 15-20 years earlier -- thereby eliminating from the population millions of potential criminals. So, did gun control play a role, too? Maybe. I think the psych record suggestion above (NOT giving access of records to gun dealers, but simply having a red flag come up on their background check, making a sale impossible) is a good one, because mentally unstable people like Cho Seung-Hui should not be able to buy guns, period. But the abortion study indicates that we should mainly focus on the people committing crimes... If you don't change the mindset of violent people (or get them off the street at least), no amount of gun control legislation will make a difference.But how do we fight poverty? I would suggest things such as universal health care, raising minimum wage and fixing the tax code, but these things tend to be opposed by people who are also against gun control.
Thoughts?Universal healthcare sounds great, but a single, gov't sponsored plan will not solve the problems. It would only make things worse. Personally, the best way to solve the health care mess is to move health care from an employee benefit to one that is controlled by the individual (in a similar fashion as car insurance). Have the states regulate the health insurance industry thereafter, and have the state, and to a lesser degree, the fed gov't provide subsidies for the working poor to obtain health insurance thru private firms. (Those in poverty would still be on Medicaid.)
Min Wage Increase - those who receive the most from such an increase are white kids. Earned Income Credit has a greater impact on the poor than a min wage increase.
Taxes - I would blow up the entire income tax system and move to a progressive sales tax - where basic living items are taxed at the lowest level, and luxury items taxed at a higher level. This, however, will nto change, for many lawyers and accountants are making a bundle, and will fight tooth and nail to keep the current system in place.However, the gov't will not be able to change the cycle of poverty and lack of value associated with an education that is found among those living in poverty. Simply put, a faceless bureaucracy will not solve this problem.
What is required is hard-core, in your face peer pressure efforts.Don't see how universal healthcare makes things worse. It gives access to care, particularly preventative care, to everyone. How is this a bad thing?
The Earned Income Tax Credit is great, but has been in effect since 1975 and we still have poverty, so clearly more in needed. Adjusted for inflation, the minimum wage has moved backwards over the past thirty years. And their are plenty of low income families trying to survive at or near minimum wage. It isn't just white kids working at the mall.
I agree with your assessment of the tax system. The government is running record deficits while the wealthy continue to benefit from ridiculous tax breaks. They don't pay their share for a system that allowed them to earn the wealth in the first place.
Not to get overly political, but Christof, you sound like your heart leans left but your ideas are all grounded on the right, probably because of how you were raised. That's exactly where I was two years ago. My advice: don't be afraid of to consider new ideas.Like I said, those working on min wage are mostly white kids working part-time during the school year or summer. You are not going to effect the poor by increasing the min wage.
As far as universal healthcare, universal healthcare will not control the costs involved with the healthcare. Actually, by making a single gov't program and eliminating private insurance, you take away competition that drives efficiency and cost-reductions. So, in the end, everyone may have "healthcare", but the costs associated will be drastically higher. And to pay for that, either taxes will be increases, or the deficit will explode.
Now as far as you saying that the rich are not paying taxes, I disagree. For example, the Top 1% of earners, which begins at $328,000 (adjusted gross income) and is 19% of all income earned, pays 36.9% of the total tax burden in the US.
Expanding to the Top 5%, that includes anyone making $137,000 AGI or above. 33% of all income earned is included here. These folks pay 57% of the total tax burden.
Expanding further to the Top 10%, which includes anyone making $99,100 AGI or more, this group accounts for 44% of all income earned in the US. This groups pays 68% of total US tax burden.
Now for the bottom 50% of income earners, they are responsible for 3.3% of total US tax burden.
The argument over the rich not paying taxes is just political fodder. In reality, it is simply not true.
As far as considering ideas, I am always open to new ideas.Having taken a federal income tax class in law school, I can honestly tell you that the rich are not benefiting from tax breaks. You may argue that their max tax rate is too low, but, tax breaks, they do not exist. Tax breaks are geared to the middle class, actually, are geared toward the swing voters in elections. Those tax breaks tend to decrease and be eliminated as income crosses the $200+ threshold.
Sadly, no one really knows how the yax system actually works. The mass media just provides the basic tax rates or stories about people complaining about the tax rate being too high / too low / unfair in some form or fashion. Politicians don't explain it - they simply parrot whatever comments excites their poltical base. And the real winners - accountants and tax lawyers - who charge $$ to help people file their taxes.
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