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No Comparison

11
Vote

by user LouGehrig

No Comparison

by Harold Friend

We all love to do it, we argue about it all the time, and yet, it is meaningless. We try to compare teams from different eras. The 1975 Cincinnati Reds, the Big Red Machine, are one of the great all time teams. The batting order included Hall of Famers Johnny Bench, Tony Perez, Joe Morgan, and Pete Rose (whoops). The team won 108 games while losing only 54. The offense scored 840 runs, but hit only 124 home runs, led by Bench's 28. George Foster hit 23, and Morgan hit 20. Bench had 110 RBIs and Perez had 109. The 1975 Reds batted .271 and slugged .401. Now let's go to a modern team, the 2004 Philadelphia Phillies. The batting order included Jim Thome, Bobby Abreu, Pat Burrell and Mike Lieberthal. The Phillies won 86 games while losing 76. The offense scored 840 runs, hit 215 home runs, led by Thome's 42. Abreu hit 30 and Pat Burrell hit 24. Thome and Abreu each had 105 RBIs. The 2004 Phillies batted .267 and slugged .443. The numbers are remarkably similar, but the 2004 Phillies hit more home runs and out slugged the Big Red Machine, while scoring the same number of runs. Why aren't the 2004 Phillies ranked as one of the great all time offensive teams? Because they weren't.

In 1975, National League teams averaged 4.13 runs a game. In 2004, they averaged 4.64 runs a game. In 1975, National League teams averaged 103 home runs with a .369 slugging average. In 2004, they averaged 178 home runs with a .423 slugging average. The 1975 Reds exceeded the league average in all offensive categories. The 2004 Phillies didn't even lead their league in runs scored, home runs, or slugging average. Today's parks are smaller, the strike zone is smaller, and the ball is livelier.

Just compare the lineups of the 1975 Reds and the 2004 Phillies. Leading off, Pete Rose v. Marlon Byrd. Rose was just a little better.

Batting second, Joe Morgan v. Placido Polanco. You pick.

In the third spot, Johnny Bench v. Bobby Abreu. Close, but Bench was a pretty dangerous hitter.

Batting cleanup, Tony Perez v. Jim Thome. Interestingly, the pick here is Thome.

Batting fifth, George Foster v. Pat Burrell. It's not even a contest.

The sixth position pitted Dave Conception against David Bell. Neither was a strong hitter, but Conception could do more with the bat.

Seventh was Ken Griffey v. Mike Lieberthal. This is close when Leiberthal is healthy, but even then, Griffey was more dangerous.

Finally, batting eighth was Cesar Geronomo v. Jimmy Rollins. The edge is to Rollins. Thankfully, there is no designated hitter.

What kind of game do fans watch today when a team such as the 2004 Phillies and many other modern teams have offenses that are as good, if not better, than a team such as the 1975 Reds? The 1975 Reds' players were clearly superior to those of the 2004 Phillies, yet the Phillies more than held their own with the Reds. Returning to the opening statement, the teams cannot be compared objectively because there are too many differences between the conditions under which the Reds played in 1975 and the Phillies played in 2004. Simply put, we are living in the era of arena baseball. Hit that ball. Score that run.

References:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CIN/1975.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/PHI/2004.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL_2004.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL_1975.shtml


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LouGehrigRed-Shirting
1006 days ago
Score 0+-
That is why so many of the discussion in the media are so ridiculous.
Permalink | Reply
Anonymous Fanatic #1
1006 days ago
Score 0+-
The Big Red Machine was one of the best, but just look at some AL teams with the DH.
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Anonymous Fanatic #2
1006 days ago
Score 0+-
Comparing the Reds of 1975 to the Phillies is crazy.
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1006 days ago
Score 0+-
The 2004 Phillies played in a shoebox for a home stadium...
Permalink | Reply
Anonymous Fanatic #3
1006 days ago
Score 0+-
Which explains a lot and which supports the contention that there are too many variables to compare teams from different eras.
Permalink | Reply
TartanVarsity Captain
1006 days ago
Score 0+-
I've said it before, I'll say it again. 1975-1976 Reds the best 8 everyday players in baseball history
Permalink | Reply
Anonymous Fanatic #4
1006 days ago
Score 0+-
Except for the 1953 Brooklyn Dodgers.
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KelsdadAll-Star
1006 days ago
Score 0+-
Personally, I think the '76 Reds were better than the '75 Reds. The '71 team wasn't so bad either.
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LouGehrigRed-Shirting
1005 days ago
Score 1+-
Now, with respect to the best starting eight players: Which team had the greatest eight players in a single year v. the team that had the eight players who had the greatest season.

The 1930 Giants had a starting eight, almost all of whom had great years, but the 1953 Dodgers and the 1975 Reds had players who had better careers than most of the 1930 Giants.

The 1927 Yankees had Ruth, Gehrig, Lazzeri, Combs, and Meusel, but Dugan, Koenig, Collins were only good. Do the great seasons Ruth, Gehrig, Combs, and Meusel had make up for the average seasons of the others, or must there be greatness for all eight?
Permalink | Reply
KelsdadAll-Star
1005 days ago
Score 0+-
Great point.
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Anonymous Fanatic #5
1005 days ago
Score 0+-
How about the 1939 Yankees?
Permalink | Reply
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