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NL MVP Race Debate

9
Vote

by Audino237

Hey, after a long layoff for me, I'm back writing here on ArmchairGM.com. I'm just getting acclimated to college life and I am comfortable enough now to get back into the game. My return post will be on a pretty hot topic: the race for the NL MVP. There are a number of candidates, but only two legitimate ones in my opinion. However, there are enough choices so that many will recieve first, second, and third place votes.

The players:

Jimmy Rollins, SS, Philadelphia Phillies

Matt Holliday, OF, Colorado Rockies

Jake Peavy, SP, San Diego Padres

Prince Fielder, 1B, Milwaukee Brewers

Ryan Howard, 1B, Philadelphia Phillies

Chipper Jones, 3B, Atlanta Braves

On the outside looking in:

Hanley Ramirez, SS, Florida Marlins

David Wright, 3B, New York Mets

Derrek Lee, 1B, Chicago Cubs

Albert Pujols, 1B, St. Louis Cardinals

Eric Byrnes, OF, Arizona Diamondbacks

Brandon Webb, SP, Arizona Diamondbacks

Ok, that list might be a little lengthy, but I have to give props to those guys who deserve it. Here is the argument for the guys who are really in contention.

Jake Peavy: Peavy will not win THIS award. He will win the Cy Young. In a fair world, though, he'd be right up there in the MVP voting. Peavy is the winner of the NL Triple Crown, as he led the league in K's (by 22), wins (he posted 19), and ERA (2.54, nearly half of a run better then Brandon Webb). Chris Young struggled with injury and consistency late in the season, and the Padres led the majors in almost every pitching category. The only thing Peavy couldn't do to help the Padres was bat cleanup in their anemic offense.

Prince Fielder: As of about 2 weeks ago, it looked like Prince was going to lead the Brew Crew to the promised land. Now that they are getting out their golf clubs, however, it is unlikely Fielder will take home the prize. His accomplishments should not go without notice. With a .288 batting average, he found other ways to get on base with a .395 OBP, which was good for 10th in the league. He led the National League with a .618 slugging percentage. The core numbers, homers and RBIs, were astonishing. His 50 dingers, many of them long enough to count as 2 home runs, led the NL. He tied for 3rd in the NL in RBIs, but that should be taken with a grain of salt because no one expected the Brewers to score many runs at all, but he put them on his shoulders (along with midseason call-up Ryan Braun) all year.

Chipper Jones: Chipper Jones is the definition of a "ballplayer". He flies under the radar and does not attract much attention. He definetly deserves some after one of the best years of his career, though. In a year where Andruw Jones was in a contract year and expected to put up MVP-type numbers, Jones picked up the slack and carried the young, over-achieving Braves (even after acquiring Mark Teixeira) as far as they could go. Jones batted .337 and was good for a .425 OBP, which is unbelievable considering he is only a good-but-not-great power threat (29). The face of the organization finished with a 1.029 on base plus slugging percentage, 4th best in the majors. If Atlanta had made the playoffs and not faded down the stretch (to no fault of Jones, he batted .375 in September), he would be in the running.

Ryan Howard: The big fella struggled early with injuries and production. Believe me, I gambled that he would carry my fantasy team and went heavy on pitchers and speed early in my draft. Even though Jimmy Rollins was the straw that stirred the drink in Philly, Howard teamed with Chase Utley and Pat Burrell and willed the Phils to the playoffs. In my opinion, their offense is the only one in the NL playoffs that can go tit for tat with the big boys in the American League. Howard may have been a rally killer because of his high K total (a major league record 199), but he did more then his fair share. He was 2nd in the NL with 47 home runs, and that comes with a trip to the DL early in the year and a terrible April. If not for his teammate and good friend Jimmy Rollins, Howard might be in line for his second straight MVP award.

Now here are the 2 heavyweights:

Matt Holliday: If you did not like the sight last night of the Rockies celebrating after making the playoffs, you are not a baseball fan. the way they finished the season gives me chills, and how they knocked around one of the best relief pitchers ever was electrifying and encouraging, considering the ripe young age of the team in general. Todd Helton takes up 30% of the team's payroll and must be the reason for any revenue the team brings in, but he has been relegated to 2nd fiddle in the Mile High City. He is only 27 years old and already a feared middle of the order slugger. He quietly won last year's NL OF Silver Slugger Award, but that meant nothing to him as he was on a mission from day 1. He played in 159 on his teams 163 games, and belted 36 home runs with 137 RBIs in the process. The RBI numbers are all the more impressive because at the beginning of the year, a lineup card beginning with the likes of Troy Tulowitzki, Kaz Matsui, and Willy Taveras seems less then appetizing. Holliday won the NL batting title, and found other ways to get on base at a .405 clip. Depending on your definition of the MVP award, there are 2 schools of thought on how many votes Holliday should recieve. If you are looking for the biggest numbers, most media attention, and an appealing name, the sexy picks would be Howard and Rollins. However, Holliday, Garret Atkins and the mainstay Todd Helton brought this young and talented team that no one expected to compete from the ashes and into the playoffs. Holliday showed leadership in the one game playoff (whether or not he touched base is another debate) but the dazed and bloodied Holliday shows how much this young man has matured as a leader. Since Larry Walker left, Helton has maintained his status as a superstar, but Holliday is the missing piece. The L-R combo in the 3 and 4 spots is enough to strike fear into any pitchers heart, even the great Jake Peavy and Trevor Hoffman. Holliday will get his due recognition, but just not this year. Rockies fans should be extremely greatful that #5 is in Denver for many years to come.

Jimmy Rollins: In the last few weeks when my friends or dad would argue with me about AL and NL MVPs, Cy Youngs, and Rookies of the Year, Rollins almost never came up in the conversation. However, the Phils' recent surge to the NL East Crown and many online articles (the best one was a September 30th ESPN.com article by Jayson Stark) turned my head and made me realize that Rollins not only should win the MVP, but that he had one of the best years EVER. That's right. Philly's offense ranked right up there with the Yankees, Angels, Red Sox, Tigers, and Indians. Despite their pitching shortcomings, they came on like gangbusters to overtake the free-falling Mets. Rollins's stats boggle my mind. He set a major league record for at-bats in a single season, an INCREDIBLE 716. Despite his miniscule frame, the slick-fielding, big-talking Rollins belted 30 home runs and had 94 RBIs. It is amazing that he gathered that many ABs, collected that many RBIs, and had pitchers willing to throw strikes against him considering that he batted leadoff in the National League, where pitchers batted in front of him and weak hitters batted 7th and 8th. As pointed out by Stark, he absolutely obliterated the NL records for runs scored and extra base hits by a shortstop in the NL. The 88 extra base hits and 41 steals are products of his 70 speed(on the scouts scale of 0-80). He is only the 4th member of the 20-20-20-20 club (steals, homers, doubles, triples) in which Willie Mays is a member). The fact that Rollins backed up his claim of being the team to beat and shouldered much of the load when Utley was hurt and Burrell was not producing solidifes my claim that Rollins is the Most Valuable Player in the National League and that his play should not go unignored.

If you have any comments or suggestions pertaining to this post, add a comment or send me an e-mail to audinoa2@union.edu. Feel free to also give me advice for another post.

--Audino


Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
Audino237JV Squad
794 days ago
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leave me some ideas
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TrizzAll-American
794 days ago
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J-roll, Prince Felder, and then Howard
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InsanMajor Leaguer
794 days ago
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Howard's batting average sucks. No way he wins.
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JuTMSY4Legend
794 days ago
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Why not David Wright? ; - )
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TylersaltAll-Star
794 days ago
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Did you not see the Mets over the past few weeks? ;-p
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JuTMSY4Legend
794 days ago
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sorry....

[/Sarcasm] Why Not David Wright? ; - ) (How was this not clear?!)

Actually...Wright was the Met who played hard and called the team meeting...he wanted to win...
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KelsdadAll-Star
794 days ago
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If the voting was a week ago, I would have voted Rollins. But Holliday's performance the last ten days virtually cinched the award for him. Rollins had a great year, no doubt, but the key drivers for the Phillies stretch run the last month were Aaron Rowand and Pat Burrell. Holliday virtually lifted the Rockies on his back and carried them the past two weeks. As much as I love J-Roll as a player and the Phillies in general, I can't see Holliday not winning the award.
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JuTMSY4Legend
794 days ago
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Although... Rollins is in Philly...and Holliday is...well...in Denver...
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Audino237JV Squad
794 days ago
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Thats why I think the system is partly skewed because of the perception of where people play i think jroll wins the award anywhere, but when people say Oh he plays in new york-philly-boston i think thats crap good to c morneau win it last year
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InsanMajor Leaguer
794 days ago
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It's definitely Holliday. His collection of numbers surpasses everyone.
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KelsdadAll-Star
794 days ago
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Don't forget his 198 strikeouts.
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InsanMajor Leaguer
794 days ago
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Ummm... Holliday has only 126 strikeouts. Far less than a lot of other people.
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Silencer76AAA-er
794 days ago
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I think Kelsdad was referring to Howard with the K total Insan.
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InsanMajor Leaguer
794 days ago
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Well then he STILL has it wrong, Howard has 199 strikeouts.
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Kwitt11Varsity Captain
794 days ago
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*Coincidentally*, he plays in the best hitter's park in baseball. Why does everybody act like this doesn't matter? I'm not saying he isn't a great hitter, and he may deserve the award...but adjusted for the park, David Wright's OPS is just as good, while playing a tougher position.
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InsanMajor Leaguer
794 days ago
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Where is plays is his fault?
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Kwitt11Varsity Captain
794 days ago
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What? How does that have anything to do with what I said? He plays in a hitter's park, so you have to take that into account when evaluating numbers. I don't see why that's a problem.
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InsanMajor Leaguer
793 days ago
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Oops, I meant to say "Where he plays is his fault?" meaning, you can't penalize someone just because they play in an easier ballpark.
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Silencer76AAA-er
794 days ago
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Since I posted on the other one, not knowing the article was done twice...

As much as I am a Cubs fan, Derrek Lee is not even the MVP of the club. Aramis Ramirez hit over .300 slammed 26 homers and drove in 101 runs despite missing 30 plus games. Holliday carried this team on his back in September, without him they don't make the playoffs.

Matt Holliday flat out deserves to be MVP. End of discussion.
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InsanMajor Leaguer
794 days ago
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Still Derrek Lee is the best 1B in the majors.
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Silencer76AAA-er
794 days ago
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Not disputing that part, but as a Cub fan, Ramirez is the one that had a lot of the key hits...the two run homer off Cordero in June, the two run triple off David Weathers last week in a game the Cubs rallied to win in the ninth, the three run homer off Brandon Lyon in July to seal a win over the D Backs...and onward.
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InsanMajor Leaguer
794 days ago
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Yea true. I agree with Holliday. He leads the league in hits, rbi's, and batting average. Fourth most homers. It would be a shame if he didn't win.
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Kwitt11Varsity Captain
794 days ago
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Best 1B in the majors? Have you never heard of Albert Pujols?
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InsanMajor Leaguer
794 days ago
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Who's that?
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RomiezzoLegend
794 days ago
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What about Doug Mientkiewicz? I heard HE was good too. </sarcasm>
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KelsdadAll-Star
794 days ago
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Who is the class act who minused me for being one off on Howard's K total? Hope you're proud of yourself.
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KelsdadAll-Star
794 days ago
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Thanks, Insan. You're on a roll with the minuses today. What day this week is your plus day?
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InsanMajor Leaguer
794 days ago
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Woah, take it easy there with the accusations.
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KelsdadAll-Star
794 days ago
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Didn't get there by itself.
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InsanMajor Leaguer
794 days ago
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Why would I minus a fellow Yankees fan? Even if you are annoyingly pesimistic...
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KelsdadAll-Star
794 days ago
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Its not pessimism, its realism.
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
794 days ago
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/Checks out Joba's statistics... 24 IP, 34 K, 1 ER, 0.38 ERA... Yup he is overrated/hyped up/sucky...
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InsanMajor Leaguer
794 days ago
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^That was me
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KelsdadAll-Star
794 days ago
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He's also the Yankees third rated minor league pitching prospect. How come the top two didn't get the same publicity? Because they're not named Joba? Because neither throws 96? Because neither is full blooded Indian? Because neither pitched in A ball and the majors the same season? I'm not saying he doesn't deserve the attention, just not all of it.
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InsanMajor Leaguer
794 days ago
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Yea, that was the minors. This is the majors and he's proven himself far more than the other guys. What does him being an Indian have anything to do with anything? And actually, he's pitched 100, and 91 for a slider! He deserves every piece of attention out there. I'm still waiting for the Joba the Hut t-shirts to come out.
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Kwitt11Varsity Captain
794 days ago
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There was no publicity around Phil Hughes?
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InsanMajor Leaguer
794 days ago
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Thank you Kwitt. I just don't understand how a guy in the majors is called a prospect. I'm completely stumped on that one.
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KelsdadAll-Star
794 days ago
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Nice talking to you.
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InsanMajor Leaguer
794 days ago
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Stumped?
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KelsdadAll-Star
793 days ago
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OK, guys, pay attention here, a scenario for you, hopefully this explains how this works.

Mr. X. is a scout for Team A. Through the grapevine, he hears of a high school kid, John Doe, who reportedly can do it all. John Doe is 17 years old, and a junior. He cannot be drafted until his high school class graduates, so this scout will follow him for two years. Scouts use a scouting scale to rank players. No 17 year old is major league ready, so this scout is projecting what this kid will be doing in five years, and then ten years. He may be 6'1" 175 now, but the scout will project him maybe to be 6'4" 210 when he's 23.

Two years down the road, Team A drafts the kid based on the scouts report and the projections he has given on the report. He goes first to rookie ball, then A, and so on.

Until he reaches his expected projections, he is considered a prospect. There are other considerations to which he wouldn't be, such as slower development, being in Double A when he's 25, and so on.
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InsanMajor Leaguer
793 days ago
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Nope, doesn't do it for me. Chamberlain is not a prospect. Once you're in the majors (and you stay in the majors), you're no longer a prospect. And Chamberlain is fulfilled everything that was expected of him. Also, your love and trust for scouts reminds me of something. Wasn't it you that said that according to scouts, Chamberlain was not going to be available in October? Really? Looks like he'll be right there pitching 1-2 innings every night.
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KelsdadAll-Star
794 days ago
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Not at all. Arguing with you is like arguing with a broad. Got to always have the last word, even when its apparent you're wrong. So the easiest thing for me to do is go do something else.
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InsanMajor Leaguer
794 days ago
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How am I wrong? My arguments contain stats, your's contain third top prospect in minors and he's indian.
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KelsdadAll-Star
793 days ago
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No, what I said was when he was first called up it was to be temporary. Had nothing to do with a scout saying that, Brian Cashman did. He pitched much better than expected, some other guys in the bullpen struggled, so why not?

So if he ends up in the minors again, does he become a prospect again?

How can Chamberlain have met expectations? I don't get it. Unless they were really, really low. Which then explains him being ranked third, not much is expected of him, right?
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InsanMajor Leaguer
793 days ago
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Nah, it was definitely around the time of Chamberlain's streak (when we were all actually paying attention).

And how is 24 innings and 1 ER not rising to expectations? The problem is that you have his expectations way too high. He's doing exactly what he was brought to the majors for and more. Holding games (what he's expected), and bringing a whole nother level of energy to the clubhouse (more than he's expected). And yes that counts.

And yes, if Chamberlain goes back to the minors (which he won't), then he'll be a prospect again.
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KelsdadAll-Star
794 days ago
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What's a stat? A fact.

Third rated prospect? A fact.

The Indian reference was to why he gets so much attention, its not just what he does on the field. Also a fact.

Chamberlain pitched in relief. An inning and he's gone. Easy to gas it out. Kennedy and Hughes are starters. Pitch five scoreless innings then get lit. Odds are pretty high if Chamberlain started he would have followed the same pattern.

I've been a Yankee fan for over 40 years, I've seen alot of guys get publicity out the ass and end up being nothing, like this guy. So you'll have to excuse me if I'm not on the Chamberlain bandwagon yet, because, despite his success so far, it's only 24 innings, which is the equivalent of two complete games and a six inning stint. Big deal.

You're not wrong, Insan, because you're offering your opinion. Just realize other people have them to, and maybe you'll learn something instead of shooting them down.
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InsanMajor Leaguer
794 days ago
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Third rated prospect is a fact of the minor leagues, stats were based on what he did in the majors. Indian reference doesn't matter because prior to you saying it, I didn't even know he was Indian. I'm sure a lot of other people don't know either. (And I read newspapers everyday). Him being Indian has nothing to do with his hype, his scoreless inning streak had everything to do with his hype.

Kennedy isn't proven yet because he hasn't pitched enough games and Hughes has been up and down. I don't know who that guy is that you mentioned, but it looks like he suffered through a career ending injury?

It's not about only numbers. When you watch the guy pitch and the emotion he displays, you know he's a beast. I've been a Yankee fan for a long time (not nearly as long as you), long enough to notice that a player hasn't been this embraced by the New York crowd/media as much as Chamberlain in a long time.

And I'm not shooting your opinion down. It's called an argument, a debate. You get annoyed because I'm arguing my side and you feel like you have to win and force me to embrace your opinion. False. It's a friendly argument, that's all, I'm just bouncing the ball back on your side of the court.
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KelsdadAll-Star
793 days ago
Score -1+-
I'm not the one with the expectations, Insan. The guy's thrown 24 innings and you've already started his Hall of Fame speech.
  • 1 He was never to be a relief pitcher, thus was never an expectation
  • What Jared Weaver did last year exceeded the Angels expectations. He jumped into the rotation and won his first nine starts. He was expected to be a starter and he was. He was expected to be a good pitcher, and he was. Chamberlain was recalled because everyone else bombed, so, they figure what the hell? You're right, in this situation, the Yankees had no expectations, so he exceeded them. But it's really, really hard not to exceed nothing.
This is where the realism, not pessimism comes in. I know what the Yankees think of him, because I've seen the scouting report. I know what his projections are, because I've seen them. And they're nowhere close to what you think they are. He will struggle to be a .500 pitcher. He may have a couple years around 15 wins, but not much more.
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InsanMajor Leaguer
793 days ago
Score 1+-
His expectations this year was to relieve for the Yankees. Hes done that and done an excellent job.

You're trust in scouts is annoying. Scouts know everything? Really? Is that why a lot of hall-of-famers end up getting passed up on by every team for 20+ rounds? News for you, scouts know as much as the media. It doesn't require taht much talent to assess a guy based on what you see. Everywhere is a different situation.

I don't care if Chamberlain is expected to be a minor leaguer for the rest of his life. What I saw from him in the majors is incredible and he will continue that. You're assessment of him based on scouting reports when he's actually played in the majors numerous times makes you sound ridiculous.
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KelsdadAll-Star
793 days ago
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No, Insan, it doesn't. I won't be swayed by an overzealous fan who doesn't know better.

How do you know he will continue? Based on what? Tell me what you know.

No one is perfect, Mattingly was drafted in like the 45th round or something. But they get paid to make recommendations is all, if we were right all the time guys like Dustin Pedroia or Melky Cabrera would never have been signed.
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RomiezzoLegend
794 days ago
Score 2+-
Thank you very much for the people who believe Matt Holliday deserves to be MVP. There's absolutely no way he's NOT going to be MVP. First off, there has been some talk about Howard and Utley being MVP, which reduces the chances for Rollins to become MVP. Secondly, look at the numbers:

1st in the NL in batting average with .340 1st in RBIs with 137 1st in hits with 216 1st in Total bases with 386 1st in extra base hits with 92

3rd in runs with 120, 3rd in slugging percentage with .607, and 7th in OBP with .405.

Now, the Rockies are in the playoffs. If it wasn't for Holliday, the Rockies wouldn't have a chance to make the playoffs. He has definitely led his team to the playoffs in my opinion, and he is the most VALUABLE player.
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DicekmaniaVarsity
793 days ago
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Matt Holiday should be the MVP of the NL, not only do his stats back this up, his team made the playoffs, which seems to be almost a must in today's game. Jimmy Rollins has had a great year and his team is in the playoffs as well, but Rollins also has Ryan Howard on his team, those guys are going to steal votes from eachother. Holliday for MVP!
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KelsdadAll-Star
794 days ago
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I'm annoyed because you're not seeing the other side. You're a college student, so the "long time" you've been a Yankee fan is what, fifteen years? So here's a hyped player for you. He got more publicity in five minutes than Chamberlain has had total to this point. And what did he do? Nothing!!

Scouts know more than you and I. If he's rated third it's for a reason, likely more than one. I have a dish, I've seen Chamberlain pitch, and, yes, he's impressive. But no pitcher, ever, has not gone through adversity. There are Hall of Famers who have lost 20 games in a season, like this guy.

The media doesn't know shit. 90% of those losers go to baseball games to chow on the free buffet in the press box. 90% of them couldn't tell a curve ball from a slider. 90% of them likely never even played the sport, so I could give a rat's ass what the media says about him. I know far more than any of them, so why should I listen?

And I've been to Yankee Stadium well over 300 times, and while it's true there hasn't been the hype its because we trade all our top picks. But I remember Mattingly and Munson and Mike Pagliarulo and Jay Buhner and Mike Blowers and Ross Moschitto and Steve Whitaker every other prospect from the last forty years and I know enough not to get overly excited over 24 innings or 24 at bats.
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InsanMajor Leaguer
794 days ago
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Again, you're constrating on the minors when we're talking majors here. Brien Taylor never made it to the majors. And so what if Chamberlain is the third best rated prospect, he's one of the most important players on the Yankees right now. Far more important than Hughes and Kennedy.

You can't use Carlton in the argument because he didn't lose 20 games because he sucked, he had a 3.9 ERA that season. He lost 20 games, because his team sucked.

A lot of scouts also work for the media. So when you say scouts know more than us but the media doesn't know shit, is kinda like an oxymoron. And you don't have to play the sport to know it. All you have to do is watch, pay attention, and understand.

Chamberlain isn't a prospect anymore so get that word out of your head. He's a major leaguer. If he was still in the minors and we hyped him up this much, then you would have a point.
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KelsdadAll-Star
794 days ago
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See, you totally missed the point, again.

First of all, Brien Taylor was a better pitcher than Chamberlain. And a better prospect. And someone who was hyped beyond belief. The fact he didn't make the majors isn't the point. I agree that Chamberlain is more important to the Yankees right now, but that doesn't make him a better prospect, or a better pitcher.

Carlton is a perfect example because it justifies my point about adversity. Everyone is on Chamberlain's bandwagon now and he hasn't done squat. Carlton is one of the all-time greats and had bad years, as will Chamberlain.

I don't know any scouts who work in the media. Scouts are paid by ML organizations or by the scouting bureau.

There are idiosyncracies in every sport, especially baseball, that can only be learned by playing. I have no respect for some beat writer or broadcaster who never played trying to sound like an expert, because they're not. Why are former players the color analysts on broadcasts? Because someone in the booth has to know something. John Sterling and Michael Kay talk, Ken Singleton and Bobby Murcer explain. Big difference.

As long as Chamberlain is still a rookie, or until he reaches his potential (established by the media, he will be, and still is, a prospect.
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