NFL is disappointing and unamerican

"God Bless America" is even worse. And now we have these big-time "singers" coming in and emoting like they do during the National Anthem. No disrespect to anyone at all, but the overwhelming faux patriotism is annoying.

And seriously, if you think singing a song is the ultimate example of patriotism you're just as delusional as half of this country. Too worried about rubbing our noses in our own asses to see what really matters in the world.

Who are the 3 douchebags who thumbs up'ed this???

I thought you had left.

My sponsor told me to stay

I = Confused

I never put my hand on my heart. Big deal.

And the symbolism it represents has nothing to do with the Steelers or the Dolphins or the shitty field they played on that night.

So we enjoy some freedoms, but apparently not the freedom to not sing the National Anthem or place our hand on our hearts when it is played.

The NFL doesn't pay for advertising, the advertisers do. If anything the NFL and ESPN would benefit from a longer game. This decision was about getting a game in the books before it was too late, particularly on the East Coast.

If you think it is unpatriotic, well, I disagree, but I can respect that opinion. Tying it to money is a stretch.

And what is so bad about not putting your hand over your heart during the anthem? This is all ritual, not true patriotism. Show me your patriotism by helping someone in need, with your time or money. I could care less about what you sing or your posture while you sing it.

I believe the word you were looking for was ssssssssssymbolism.

I don't place my hand on my heart either, to me it is a silly gesture that means nothing. But that's just me.

But you're right, it's great that we live in this wonderful country, and we should show our appreciations for our freedoms by doing what we're told.

With all due respect Corey. Proper courtesy during the playing of the National Anthem (even though I don't like the song) is about respect. To me it's about respect for the people that have made personal sacrifices so I can sit here and debate whether or not we have the freedom to not sing the National Anthem or place our hand on our hearts when it is played. (We do have the freedom by the way.)

Just because you have a freedom doesn't mean you need to exercise it.

And as per your earlier comments with regards to the rest of the world, I do pay attention to the rest of the world. I also pay attention to things right here at home. We have enough worries without trying to help out everybody else.

Amazing great refernce Raw

Cheezer, you have the freedom to respect the anthem. I have the freedom not to put my hand on my heart (I don't do this out of disrespect, I do it out of respect. To me, it is a meaningless gesture and simply doing it because I'm supposed to is disrespectful, in my opinion), others have the freedom to not face the flag. In the end, trying to convince someone to perform a ritual is a silly endeavor.

You know, if you disagree with me, have some balls and present a counter argument, don't just minus my opinions and disregard them. I have nothing but respect for the anthem, for the flag, for this country. But putting my hand over my heart means absolutely NOTHING to me. Just like saluting means nothing to me (I'm not in the military), and crossing my fingers means nothing to me. If putting your hand on your heart means something to you, by all means do it. But don't do it just because you're supposed to and because everyone else does it. That takes all the meaning out of the action.

What's happening to you Raw is what happens to me all the time here- I never get a counter arguement back-

To be fair, he is not the first. I've heard this kind of complaint here and there. I've also heard that the guy who was supposed to sing the anthem didn't show up. Fun fact: anthems at most stadiums are recorded about an hour before the gates open to the public. This is to ensure there are no sound difficulties or slip ups. The recording is played while the singer(s) pretend(s) to sing.

Not Shea. I was at the game once when the singer stopped, mid-Anthem, after she skipped a verse. She said "I can't do this" and walked off.

Geez Raw, you mean to tell us that Rosanne had to actually practice and pre-record her rendition?  :)

The singer was there, he was ready and ESPN pulled the Plug not the NFL.

Steel Town just hit the nail on the head. It's not the NFL's fault what ESPN decides.

DNL, TB, incidents like that are why many major sporting events prerecord.

another good point. I don't think that risking the stadium lighting on fire is really worth singing the national anthem.

you don't have to have someone sing it... You could just play a copy of the national anthem...and don't tell me they don't have it...its bull

What's wrong with you FP?

A million thumbs up to you Steel Town-- Corey- a million thumbs down to you- shame on you, shame on Happy, shame on you FP, shame on ALL OF YOU!!!!

And this has what to do with the anthem being played before sporting events? I mean, thanks for the history lesson, but why do we have to show our respect to our history before sporting events?

tradition...same as the 7th inning stretch or to break it down for you corey...sausage races!

WTF???!!!! I go to WORK conferences who play the National Anthem beforehand- believe it or not the NFL and MLB and others represent more to this country that just entertainment- is there nothing to be said about tradition and respect anymore???!!! One reason alone to play the national anthem is this: because we have ALWAYS PLAYED THE NATIONAL ANTHEM!!!!!

Why was the tradition started? Rawb hit it right on the head when he compared it to the fact that in England "God Save the Queen" is never played before soccer games, and guess what? The games still go on. Amazing, I know.

This ain't ENGLAND DOUCHEBAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I like that. Rather than answering the question and justifying the tradition you call me a douchebag. You're real smart, Jamel.

he's right...it isn't england...

National anthem

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search For the Radiohead song, see "The National Anthem". A national anthem is a generally patriotic musical composition that evokes and eulogizes the history, traditions and struggles of its people, recognized either by a country's government as the official national song, or by convention through use by the people.

Anthems rose to prominence in Europe during the nineteenth century; the oldest national anthem is "Het Wilhelmus", the Dutch national anthem, written between 1568 and 1572 during the Eighty Years War. The Japanese anthem, Kimi ga Yo, has its lyrics taken from a Kamakura period poem, yet it was not set to music until 1880.[1] God Save the Queen/King, the national anthem of the United Kingdom, was first performed in 1745 under the title "God Save the King". Spain's national anthem, the "Marcha Real" (The Royal March), dates from 1770. La Marseillaise, the French anthem, was written in 1792 and adopted in 1795.

During the rise of the nation-state in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, most remaining nations adopted an anthem upon attaining nationhood. Because of European colonial influence, many were influenced in a similar way to adopt a national anthem, and thus several anthems outside Europe are in the European style. Only a handful of non-European countries have anthems rooted in indigenous traditions, including India, China, Japan, Costa Rica, Iran, Sri Lanka, and Myanmar.

An anthem can become a country's national anthem by a provision in the country's constitution, by a law enacted by its legislature or simply by tradition. The majority of national anthems are either marches or hymns in style. The countries of Latin America tend towards more operatic pieces, while a handful of countries use a simple fanfare.

National anthems are usually either in the most common language of the country, whether de facto or official. India's anthem, Jana Gana Mana, is a highly Sanskritized version of Bengali. States with more than one national language may offer several versions of their anthem: For instance, Switzerland's anthem has different lyrics for each of the country's four official languages (French, German, Italian and Romansh). On the other hand, South Africa's national anthem is unique in that five of the eleven official languages are used in the same anthem (each language comprising a stanza). Another multilingual country, Spain, has no words in its anthem, La Marcha Real, although in 2007 a national competition to write words was launched[2]. Former military dictator General Francisco Franco replaced the original words with words considered fascist, which were dropped after his death.

Corey this is why according to Wkipedia n 1916, President Woodrow Wilson ordered that "The Star-Spangled Banner" be played at military and other appropriate occasions. Although the playing of the song two years later during the seventh-inning stretch of the 1918 World Series is often noted as the first instance that the Anthem was played at a baseball game, evidence shows that the "Star-Spangled Banner" was performed as early as 1897 at Opening Day ceremonies in Philadelphia and then more regularly at the Polo Grounds in New York City beginning in 1898. However, the tradition of performing the national anthem before every baseball game began in World War II.[1]Today, the anthem is performed before the beginning of all NBA, NHL, MLB and NFL games, as well as in a pre-race ceremonies portion of every NASCAR race.

Jamel, if you knew the history of the Star Spangled Banner, you'll know it hasn't "always been played" and it hasn't even been our national anthem for most of our country's history.

Steel Town, thank you for your history lesson, it was straight out of a 6th grade textbook, nothing but glorifying the "American Dream."

Half the people who signed the D of I had slaves. All the people who signed the D of I were filthy rich. All of them were rich, white men.

If you're gonna go through American history, you can't just touch on the happy spots. How about our wars of extermination against Indians? How about the purge against Communism? How about the "aid" we send to guerrilla fighters in South America, Asia, and Africa? American history isn't all about people shedding their blood for truth, justice, and the American way. There's a lot of bullshit there.

But that has nothing to do with why I don't put my hand on my heart. I take my hat off, and stand at attention, but I don't put my hand over my heart because it means nothing TO ME. When I hug a loved one, it means something to me. When I stand at attention it means something to me (to me it means, something important is going on, let's all pay attention). But putting my hand over my heart is so trivial and stupid to me. It's disrespectful to go through the motions and perform meaningless rituals. That isn't respecting the flag, the anthem, or the country. That's respecting a RITUAL.

Jamel is right, this isn't England. It's just a country that speaks English, is predominately WASP, has a court system based off England's, and has a bicameral legislature similar to England's. But we have absolutely nothing to do with England, it's all coincidences.

Corey, I never said you HAD to. By all means, you have the right to sit there in silence with your hat on. I was simply trying to tell you why you should. If you are to ignorant,faux defiant/rebelous, lazy, or whatever to do so then that is your choice. If you had some sort of moral or Idealistic reason then I would probably have kept my mouth shut, but "It's my right" is a worthless argument.

Another history lesson that fails to answer the question of why the tradition of playing it before games was started.

wait...

are we arguing over putting our hands over our hearts?

Who cares...it doesn't matter...Just stand and be quiet...ideally, reflect

""It's my right" is a worthless argument."

?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

After your history lesson, you still don't get it. Saying "it's my right" is the only thing anyone needs to explain to justify their behavior. It's my right to own a gun, it's my right to assemble, it's my right to vote, it's my right to protest, it's my right to say what I want. That is the fundamental "why" of our society.

ha....you show me where you have a right to own a gun... I have no problem with it...but there, to the best of my knowledge, is no such right...

It's my right to think that anyone who disagrees with playing the national anthem before a game is an facking idiot asshole

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." ehhhhhhhh

2nd ammendment, JuT.

the argument has always been...is that a clause of a well regulated militia or not?

Your right Raw, our history isn't all peaches 'n cream. What America and well the world, did to Africans was dispicable and cannot possibly be undone or made up for. What the Americans did to the Native Americans is equally disgusting. But I beleive yoiu said you don't put your hand on your heart because it is a ritual. You didn't mention anything about America's dirty little secrets at first. In fact you still don't actually give any sort of reason other than I don't feel like for not putting your hand on your heart. You probably have a lot of respect for your nation, and I'm in no way questioning your "patriotism" I just feel strongly about paying our respects and part of that is ritual I guess, but to me that doesn't make it any less meaningful. If you had told me that you don't say the pledge and refuse to stand for the national anthem because of all of the awful things that America has done, I would have not said anything. But saying you don't do it cause it's stupid, wreaks of NASCAR logic.

Steel Town, I never said "I don't do it because it's stupid." I do a lot of stupid things. I personally choose not to do it, because it is meaningless TO ME. It is subjective. Rituals like standing up and shutting up for the anthem show respect, which is why I do them. But to me, a hand on my heart means nothing. If it means something to you, then do it. Rituals performed for the sake of performance are silly. For me, putting my hand on my heart doesn't show my respect because this gesture has no meaning to me.

"After your history lesson, you still don't get it. Saying "it's my right" is the only thing anyone needs to explain to justify their behavior." Yes Raw that's what I am saying. "It's my right" would be enough if we were debating the legality of the issue. But we are debating the reasons why. So it will take a little more than "it's my right" to get an intelligent point across.

Actually, "It's my right" is the most powerful argument you can have, and almost positively would make our founding fathers smile. Exercising your right to do something is doing your patriotic duty as an American.

"It's my right" is a simple minded argument. It lacks any sort of logic or reason. We are trying to have a debate here and if your most powerful argument for why you choose not to partake in the National Anthem traditions then your intelligence is seriously in question.

Apparently you haven't reached the part in school where they discuss the First Amendment.

I fail to see how the first amendment relates to logic and reason. I said that it's my right is a simpl minded argument. I didn't say the freedom of speech is simple minded. Saying "it's my right" is like saying "cause I can" or "because I feel like it" in a debate. for some reason you seem offended that I disagree with you. You shouldn't. you should want to present your argument in an intelligent manner. that three word phrase sounds like the type of argument I would here from "the decider".

The First Amendment isn't supposed to, in the context of this argument, relate to reason and logic. It's supposed to relate to a person's inalienable right to not stand, not put their hands over their heart, or simply not play the National Anthem prior to the start of a sporting event since there is no other amendment or law that requires us to do said activities.

Funny how you're the one preaching about respect.

I respect my country Corey- I dont' respect some individuals- mostly people who post here- but I do respect tradition, respect my ancestors, respect does who have lost their lives for my freedom (remember we did have slavery once), and respect the men and women who continue to fight for our freedom- RESPECT- something apparently most of you lack

I respect my country, too. Shouldn't I have the FREEDOM to do it the way I want?

Actually I dont' think you do respect your country- and funny thing who you guys are agreeing with Steel Town but not me- You guys always make things personal

I don't respect the people that run the country and the hatred they breed, but I respect my country. Who are you to say that I don't?

please, lets not go there...

corey is right...i may disagree with him, but i won't deny him the inalienable right to say anything like the above... then again, if i see him turnaround or not stand during a national anthem, i'll be superpissed! ; - )

It's difficult to put myself in such a mindset, but I imagine a soldier fighting in Iraq last Monday night would probably more upset at his best friend getting blown up, or having to kill 10 insurgents, or not being home for Thanksgiving, as opposed to there being no national anthem at the Steelers game.

i guess its just special for me...i just think of my family...

Ju- the way things are going and the way our youth respect this country in a few years people WILL be NOT standing for our national anthem- because "it's their right and they are free to do as they want"- unbelievable-

i've seen it happen already... I think its incredibly disrespectful...

Probably was Corey

Probably was. The American flag stands for different things for different people. Some look at it and see lives given in the name of freedom, other people see the injustices done upon the country's own people and in many times the same people who give their country to defend it. What if I sat down or turned my back to the flag but belted out the anthem, are you going to call me disrespectful? The words mean a fackload more than the gesture of standing, facing the flag, taking off your cap, holding your hand to your heart, etc.

Than move out of the States and live somewhere else

Typical line from a myopic conservative. No, I won't move out. I like it here. Like I said before, I respect my country and am thankful for the life I live. Let me choose how I give those thanks and how I respect the people that gave them to me.

It's always somebody else, isn't it?

Manny you can't honestly agree with this?

You're the one disagreeing with me exercising my right of freedom to respect my country the way I want to.

I'm sorry. Ignore what now?

(awakens from slumber)

(rubs eyes for clearer vision, yawns and clears the cobwebs of a late morning nap)

Manny (somewhat perturbed looking): Jamel's here? What the fack?

Jamel: says something dumb and uninteresting adlib and mildly coherent about non-sports than says "it's a double standard douchebags"...

Manny: I'm sorry, Jamel... ignore what now?

this stuff writes itself!

Way to cop out of a great debate Manny- it's like you not to participate in meaningful things and just act like "Jamel" as you say it- you're pathetic

You cop out of every great debate by calling your opponents douchebags every chance you get. Nobody takes you seriously when you start you name calling, and rightfully so. You want to talk about respect? You can't even respect difference of opinion.

Problem with you guys is that you don't read what I write- you only focus on what you want to focus on- and sorry but the fact that this is a debate.... well it just means you are a douchebag- sorry but this should be a non-issue-

The Network made a mistake- 100% of people as far as I'm concerned should agree- if you don't you're a douchebag- This isn't a conversation like "should we have traded X for Y" or "why did he call a timeout twice in a row"...

Some things are cut and dry- this should be cut and dry- you Corey- are an idiot

Jamel, the problem is YOU don't read what you write.

Another statement by Manny that doesn't contribute anything- that's about 10 comments for today

i think we're on the same page TB...

because we just lumped hockey in with all the other sports at the time...

Don't forget Finns, MJD.

Ta ta.

oh they play it before every college and semi-pro game I've played in as well

Well said

Also another note on the singers, when they play the music, I sing the words to myself quietly, cause I actually know all the words, and you shouldn't need a singer cause every American should know all the words. If you don't, rexamine yourself.

Like Tyrone said and I've witness it myself when I've gone to Toronto- I've watched a Leafs game and I've seen a Blue Jays game live- all of them get up and belt out the words-- and they KNOW THEM- wished this went on more here at home

The national anthem isn't about politics. The anthem is a song about a flag, not a politician. The particularly flag being sung about was flying over Fort McHenry, which was under attack by the British. It isn't about George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton. It's about a country.

Again well said

Lastly- notice see how eventhough I don't personally like LA right now I agree with what he is saying and can look past this-- some need to work on this

Well said Raw.

Why is it up for debate? Because a lot of people view the singing of the anthem at the beginning of games a substanceless theatrical act, and it's your problem for not seeing and respecting that point of view.

You know what, if you don't want to put your hand on your heart, don't. It's your right. Just stand up and be respectful. The ritual has meaning to other people and having common courtesy and respect for your fellow man means you don't denigrate their traditions because they don't mean anything to you.

Can't I choose how to respect people? Forcing me to stand isn't very patriotic. You have your way. I have mine. It's the melting pot all over again.

You know what? I'm not going to pay taxes anymore- it's my right-- and when I go and get food and the market I'm not going to pay them- it's my right as well- I'm free- free to do as I please

This is exactly what I've been trying to say.

agree with the over blown "experience" they are making out of the anthem- honestly- I would be better if they just played a tape and kept it simple-

I don't think that is an arguement here- what's an arguement is that they should play it-

And COrey- what Yourboy and you have been sayin are NOT the same- if this is what you were TRYING to say than I'll accept that

No, actually Jamel, I can't get any clearer, what he said is precisely what I was saying. I really don't care if it's played before the games. I may question its relevance to a sporting event but I'm by no means saying that it shouldn't be played. I also have been arguing that the "5 minute medley" is tacky and substanceless. Whether you like it or not, the "Boys" are on the same page.

What??!!!!

Look- it's as simple as this THe NFL network made a mistake and the anthem should have been played-- end of story The anthem should be played at each and every game- end of story

Are they overdoing the anthem and making it more about the star who signs it than the meaning of the song? YES!

But to say you don't care about the national anthem and if it's played or not- that's the problem I have

To say you don't want to stand up during it and how that doesn't mean anything? I have a problem with that

And what's with the "boys"???

Jamel, reread what I said. I never said I didn't care about the anthem. In fact, I said before "The words mean a fackload more than the gesture of standing, facing the flag, taking off your cap, holding your hand to your heart, etc..." so, therefore, if you're having trouble with the definitions of these words, I do care about the anthem.

I'm with you 100% LA on this topic- and I agree that they are overdoing everything- they are MTVing the national anthem- But everything else everyone writes--- WTF??!!

Actually, Corey doesn't want to stand either. He thinks the tradition of standing while the anthem is played is unpatriotic. Corey states, "Can't I choose how to respect people? Forcing me to stand isn't very patriotic. You have your way. I have mine. It's the melting pot all over again."

Is that so wrong? You're trying to suppress difference of opinion.

Corey is just arguing to argue at this point. He has been backed into a corner and probably doesn't remember half of the crap he has written. I choose to respect other religions by burning the koran, tora and bible in a beautiful fire. If anyone finds that disrespectful, well then shame on you for not appreciating how I respect other religions.

Why do you feel I've been backed into a corner? Just because you fascists don't appreciate a difference of opinion? It's my inalienable right to decide how I do things, and if you want to burn religious books go ahead, it is your right.

As for your accusation that I don't remember half of what I've said, I haven't contradicted myself once. I'm standing up for First Amendment rights and haven't swayed from that once.

that my friend is an Ad Hominem attack...weaksauce...

steel town, rather...

I feel you have been backed into a corner because I thought you had a point in the beginning of the argument, but now it seems you're just full of angst.

Citing my copy of the constitution that I keep in my planner (don't ask), The First Amendment states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people to peacably assemble, and to petition the government for a regress of grievances."

I really don't want to pile on Corey, but which first amendment right are you standing for?

I'm not a Constitutional Law attorney, but it appears to me that all the first amendment does is limit the power of Congress.

BTW corey, if you are angry at your government and full of angst and that is why you don't stand up for the anthem, then more power to you. I disagree with your form of protest, but that my friend is America.

The right of the people to peaceably assemble...I thought that would've been obvious.

I'm trying to cite a different form of respect and you're telling me it's wrong. That's suppression.

I'm not suppressing anything. I'm listening to everything you have to say. That's the great thing about freedom. We can have an open discussion when our opinions differ.

I respect the fact that you don't want to put your hand on your heart. If you choose not to stand, I'm not going to stop you, but at the same time, I'm not going to respect that. Tradition dictates that you stand while the National Anthem is played. I choose to stand and respect that tradition. You do not.

I don't understand, why you choose to not stand. To me that's a silent act of protest which you are entitled to, I just don't understand it.

However, when I'm at a game, the people near me (whom I cannot ignore) that don't stand for the Anthem are usually too busy drinking, talking, or ogling the cheerleaders to pay attention. To me, that action is not an exercise in freedom, it is an act of neglect or disrespect.

That probably should have been asked a long time ago.

whoops, Country*

I actually do stand. I don't put my hand on my heart, and it makes me sick when some singer turns the National Anthem into a four minute American Idol tryout.

I've often thought about not standing but am terrified to do so because, in this day and age, people will read it the wrong way and call me unAmerican or unpatriotic. I'm not, believe me. I love the country, but I don't appreciate some of the things the flag has stood for in the history of the country.

If people weren't so tied up in political correctness, not standing for the anthem wouldn't seem so disrespectful. I believe that if a person can find their own way that gives them the best connection with their ancestors during the anthem then so be it, and I think it's unAmerican and unpatriotic to tell them otherwise.

Respect to that Corey.

Sorry- I was trying to quote Steel- he said this