The Lockerroom
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Open Forum on the behavior of Manny Stiles
There is currently a bit of a deadlock in the discussion over what to do with Manny Stiles, so we have decided to open it up to the public. This is not a place to list your beefs with manny, but is rather a place to discuss what you think is warranted.
This is not a vote. The final decision remains with the admins, and frankly, given that blocked users can vote (I think), there's no way to ensure that a poll is legitimate and fair. Also, given the rapid proliferation of new users who may or may not be Manny, to open this up to a vote would not be desirable. Plus, who said this was a democracy ;).
Anyways, users may voice their opinion on the subject in the comment section
Like many people on the internet, I have noticed that he is passionate about his opinions and loves a good argument.
Most importantly, I think he is passionate about sports and this little corner of the internet. Like many of us, he would like to see the site be more active and there be more high quality writing. Remember all the recruitment videos he's made over the years?
Without writing, this site is just another comment fest.
If he wants to post, let him post. If he wants to argue, don't engage him.
Being passionate does not mean throwing hissy fits over the slightest disagreement over your own opinion as if it is fact.
Being passionate does not mean "F you you guys are douchebags and I'm leaving" for the umpteenth time only to have it be another Brett Fa**e retirement.
Loving a good argument does not have to be calling someone gay or say they're interested in necrophilia, as has been the case on several occasions since around March.
In an argument you're supposed to say something useful, not reduce it to insults.
"Like many of us, he would like to see the site be more active and there be more high quality writing"
The solution isn't to bitch and moan about the current users and call everyone names and practically say "I'm better than you".
That's the Manny Stiles we've been dealing with for months.
No you're aren't
I am not passing judgment over the "rights" and "wrongs" of this present situation. Please bear with me as I attempt to explain.
However, I do believe in fairness. And I also believe in representation of all parties.
Right now, Manny Stiles does not have representation on this matter.
It seems safe to assume (and if I am wrong then I am wrong)that Manny is/has/will be reading this thread and others.
If Manny Stiles wishes to address the community and requires a voice/keyboardist to do so, then I am offering him my services.
In no way do I wish to be disturbance here. I mean no offense to anyone.
However, I cannot ignore or conveniently forget that it was Manny Stiles who initiated (on his own accord) a petition for my return to ArmchairGM. And despite our historical differences, I feel that I owe him a return of favor if he so wishes.
So if Manny does have something to say on this matter or wishes to address these matters, yes I am volunteering my help. Manny knows my email address. And I will be dropping a note offering help on his profile page here.
For me, this feels like the right thing to do. I hope others understand. And I hope this situation can correct itself for the better in the near future.
If you have concerns/questions/etc., please contact me on my profile page. I do not wish to aggravate this situation. But I do believe that everyone is entitled to some form of communicable representation.
Thank you for your kind understanding of my position on this matter.
Manny Stiles is one of the most passionate guys I've ever met (anywhere). He is a great writer, and a great person, in my personal opinion (and surely in others, as well). He makes people laugh and gives people the opportunity to read great, long [long] articles on ArmchairGM. Without him, we lose a lot of great writing, and a lot of passion, which is definitely what drives this special site.
I have read some of the arguments and the back-and-forth confrontations, and I must say that most of the stuff here is just childish (on both sides). It's like adding salt to a wound... it's like adding gasoline to a fire... it's like bringing back Jamel. If you don't agree with someone, debate... don't argue; there's a difference. Debating leads to many people discussing a certain issue and creating several new ideas... there's no right or wrong. Arguing is denoting verbal exchange in a specific conflict. At first, it could start off as a debate, but then it could lead to something else... let's say personal issues (for instance, insulting someone's mom). People have talked about minuses and how people say they don't care when they really do... blah blah blah.
Come ON! Seriously... I hate to bring this up, but can we all grow up? We all know how Manny Stiles is... why do we have to block him when we all know that he's not going to change. He'll always be that passionate guy who always talk about AGM like it's his second home. He'll always be that guy who writes tremendous articles and comments that deserve to be articles. And he'll always be the guy who retires... and comes back... and retires... and comes back...
And retires... and comes back.
We all know who we're dealing with when we send a comment to someone... ANYONE, never mind Stiles. We know who that person is. We have the freedom to say whatever we want on here, but we all know that some of the stuff people say on here isn't right. If it's getting too out of hand and people aren't involved, block them for the day.... not forever; admins have the eligibility to do that.
And, I can't say this any more than I already have... if there's something you don't like, don't reply, or send [private] messages... or better yet, talk to someone who can actually do something about it. No one likes to see bickering on articles and lockerroom topics. That's not what AGM is about.
So, in conclusion... if I was to my cast my vote right now, I'd say: let Manny Stiles stay. He loves this site more than I do (and that's saying something). Like Mr. Briggs said, everyone is entitled to some sort of communication/feedback on this site. No one agrees with everyone about everything, and Manny Stiles is a pure example of this. If we don't like the way he's acting, just leave... or talk to one of the admins.
He makes people laugh and gives people the opportunity to read great, long [long] articles on ArmchairGM. Without him, we lose a lot of great writing, and a lot of passion, which is definitely what drives this special site.
Sometimes it's funny. But.....
"And a turd by any other name is clearly still a turd. That's not name calling."
"Rawb... you're a dork."
"News flash... Count how many times I said the word retirement. Gee... it's ZERO! Duuuuuhhhhh.... Ban me."
"Good luck to you losers - you will need it."
"You're using too much innuendo and gay sex lingo and not enough Sports lingo for me to follow what you're intentions are."
"And since I'm on AGM around the same times you're (presumedly) surfing through your collection of gay porn sites we're going to keep bumping into each other"
I'm sorry, but those quotes aren't the least bit funny to me. As I said to Cheezer, being passionate does not mean acting like a jerk towards others and generalizing that an entire group is below him.
He was banned because of that. Because of his persistence in not constructing a decent argument that was sports related and instead resorting to saying Rawbeezeitz uses gay sex lingo.
I'm also going to note that all but one of those quotes came from another person's article, LR post, or hot link. That's hijacking a thread.
_________________________________________________________
'We all know how Manny Stiles is... why do we have to block him when we all know that he's not going to change.
That's up to him. The Manny I miss is the one who wasn't posting locker room topics laced with profanity saying he's going elsewhere when he knows he isn't. What was the point of saying "I'm taking my ball bag and leaving the playground" if all you're going to do is come back. That's just seeking and craving attention in a totally unprofessional manner.
It's 55 days just to cool his jets and think for a second that it's not all about him. Because that's exactly how he's acted. Look at his profile. AGM sucks without ME. Come on...
And he'll always be the guy who retires... and comes back... and retires... and comes back...
Again, I don't see that as funny. In fact it's become increasingly annoying. Saying you're retiring when you know you're never leaving AGM on your own is just saying "I want attention so please notice me and beg me to stay". That's childish.
but we all know that some of the stuff people say on here isn't right. If it's getting too out of hand and people aren't involved, block them for the day.... not forever; admins have the eligibility to do that.
Well it's only 55 days and it's not going to kill him. We aren't banning him forever so as I said, we're just telling him to cool it.
He loves this site more than I do (and that's saying something)
There is a difference. I love ArmchairGM and you love ArmchairGM. Do you or I have a disagreement and call each other turds and saying we like surfing gay porn websites?
Manny's version of loving AGM right now is like saying "I love you" to your spouse and verbally abusing him/her.
Romi, Cheezer, and TB make good points that Manny is a great contributor to this site, and for the most part that is true. But nobody is above the rules. If I behaved like Manny has for as long as Manny has, I'd expect myself to be suspended.
If we don't like the way he's acting, just leave... or talk to one of the admins.
Let me say this as if I was talking about an actual team:
SSR, you make some valid points and have shown that Stiles has gone a little over the border. I've seen what he has written, and am well aware of what he has said. Now that may affect the AGM team, in terms of the chemistry of the team or certain person's emotions. BUT, he's still a great player writer and contributor to the team. Like I implied above, some things should be left unsaid. If you don't have anything good to say, then don't facking say it. And if you're a guy like Stiles who has to get things out, don't post degrading insults in public: post them on the other user's board. That's why we have them...
We all know who Stiles is, and that's just Stiles being Stiles. That's why I agreed that if an admin sees stuff like this again, block him for a day or two (depending on how bad it is or if he's done it frequently). Why 2 months? I don't see how that would make any difference. If things are out of control, admins have to take control just like the manager or coach of any sports team.
The thing about how he said "AGM sucks without ME": whether he meant that or not is only what he knows, and it's his personal opinion what he thinks. But I think we all know that one person can't bring down an entire site. One person can't make an entire team lose. He can be a huge factor of a team... like Michael Jordan with the Bulls, but you can't blame one person for bringing down one whole site.
About the multiple retirements, I find it funny that he has done it. Call him an attention seeker, but like I said, he's never going to leave. In all the comments I've posted about his retirements, I've only said, "You'll be missed", and sometimes I elaborate and tell him about how he's inspired me to be a writer and stick with ArmchairGM ("Sports is my crack...AGM is my pipe") that sorta thing. It doesn't matter whether he retires or not... we'll still feel the same way... so why do we have to make such a big deal out of it. Just reply to his posts via message if you feel that way about it and you think it's always "me me me".
I don't know... it just seems like a ban for 55 days is too long. I mean, that's equivalent to the Manny Ramirez ban for taking PEDs. The Dodgers are doing fine without him, but he's surely missed and they could always use a little more offense.
And Rawb... about the Patriots and Red Sox... like I said, "WHO CARES!?" You know that they're still whooping ass and have been whooping ass for quite some time. New England hasn't seen a 'ship in over a year, but just going back and forth knowing that it's just going to lead to something bad isn't the way to go, IMO. I know, most of us Boston fans are huge homers and we can't just let him be sometimes, but it just leads to bad things. Have at it through private messaging and that's it. If admins see something, we'll take care of it.
The way Stiles has behaved makes it seems like he doesn't care if he's suspended or not. And what happened to comment admins? Are people even taking control of the comments anymore? I remember I had a certain comment on one of my Homer of the Day articles, and someone deleted it.
I'm just saying... things can be done and Manny does not need to be suspended for that long.
Your argument kind of helps prove SSR's point. Just because he is who he is, and has dome some good things for this site, doesn't mean he gets to play by a different set of rules. That's actually been the problem that lead us here, him thinking he could get away with stuff because he thinks he's Lord of AGM.
A 2 day suspension these days is a nothing punishment and not a deterrent. Hell, the weekends during the summer see 2 or 3 comments a day. And you can miss 2 days on this site and catch-up in 15 minutes once you've returned.
We all know who Stiles is, and that's just Stiles being Stiles. That's why I agreed that if an admin sees stuff like this again, block him for a day or two (depending on how bad it is or if he's done it frequently).
Not only does it prove my point as Rawb said, but that just implies Manny is above the law. Stiles being Stiles is not adequate enough to justify intentionally flaming threads and hurling insults and whatnot. That's called being rude and a troll, not Stiles being Stiles.
He's been at it for months. Him "doing it again" is pointless because he's just piled it up time and time again like clockwork.
The thing about how he said "AGM sucks without ME": whether he meant that or not is only what he knows, and it's his personal opinion what he thinks
That may be correct to a certain extent, but it's a thinly-veiled slap in the face to everyone else and it's supremely narcissistic.
The way Stiles has behaved makes it seems like he doesn't care if he's suspended or not.
I think the "invincible" statement I made earlier illustrates this. Any other user does this and we're not even having an open forum. But because it's Manny Stiles we're having this discussion. If he loves AGM so much and doesn't care he gets banned, what does that tell you? He's either bluffing and he does care, or he thinks nothing can stop him.
I don't mind when threads meander or wander. Something about steroids in baseball can turn into a discussion about steroids in football, then cheating in football, then SpyGate, then Peyton Manning, then Tony Dungee and Rodney Harrison on TV, then Erin Andrews on TV, and so on. But when a thread is hijacked and turned into ad hominin attacks, and this happens repeatedly, it's too much.
I don't mind being insulted. I don't much like it, but it happens. But it does make the site look like a run-of-the-mill sports message board, with people using phrases like "pwn" and endless pages of personal attacks.
How often has anyone disagreed with Manny, and been called an idiot by him for doing so? I know I have many many many times. I've been called a turd, I've been called gay, I've been called fat, I've been called ugly. And if all this was in a thread called "Manny Insulting Rawbeezeitz," I wouldn't have much of a problem with it. But it'd be in an article about Craig Biggio, or Ryan Howard striking out too much, or the Red Sox being a 21st century dynasty.
I've long thought that he has been treated as an untouchable object that is the be all and end all of ArmchairGM.
Manny Stiles is not above the law. He's not invincible nor is he to be coddled throughout AGM's existence as the victim. Just stop and think. We've banned several users in the past for name calling and insults and intentionally starting flame threads. Manny should be no different. We can't just use his personality and how he acts as a reason to continuously let him get away with treating fellow users like dogcrap.
He has crossed the line on numerous occasions for 3 months and it makes no sense to not ban him just based on name. That's what it boils down to. His name is Manny Stiles and he has a big reputation and he is practically infallible.
I won't deny he has made his contributions as a writer and commenter, but that doesn't give him immunity to criticism and the rules.
I'm with you on the fact that banning him doesn't benefit anyone. What's it going to do? Less great articles, less comments and feedback, less humor. ALSO... less people unhappy and insulted, less degrading comments, etc. BUT... it takes two to tango, if you know what I mean.
You're right, I could just ignore him. But I could also point out his BS.
Remember how this latest drama started? HeywoodJablome (which Manny thinks is me) gave him some crap. Manny tried to get others (including me) to rally around himself in a crusade to force HeywoodJBM off the site. Nobody cared. So Manny threw a hissy fit, posted a lockerroom about leaving, came back as an Anon (as did Kelsdad) ripping both the site and certain users, then he came back "officially" and acted like someone trying to get banned.
He started a flamewar on his own.
But you're right, we ALL need to contribute more if we want AGM to thrive, and that's with or without Manny. I'm almost done with a new article and hopefully it'll be complete by tomorrow.
I don't think anyone here who is pro-suspension has gone so far as to say that Manny is/was bad for AGM. And even if they think that, they don't think that to be the reason for his suspension.
"If you do go through with the ban, though, it seems like you guys have 55 days (actually less than that now) to build the site back up, to recruit and write like hell, or it will just prove Manny's point about being the straw that stirs the drink."
I made the same point elsewhere, and you're right. If in 53 1/2 days articles on this site aren't picked up by national media, if a semi-well known media type hasn't created a user name here, then Manny wins.
Journalism today isn't the same as it used to be years ago, and not that many years. Instead of making phone calls, reading a dozen papers a day, writers now just wake up, pour a cup of joe, and surf the net. Peter King of Sports Illustrated USED to have a AGM user name. Peter Gammons and Rob Neyer and others used to read the 'chair. Now, mention Armchair and it's like, "what?"
Manny doesn't own or manage or otherwise influence this site. Neither does Davis or SSR or Romi or Rawbee, it's the content.
If you want Armchair to be a mainstream media site, then fix it. If you want it to be MySpace, then congratulations, you get what you ask for.
The admins had (are still having?) a discussion about what to do. This is what I said:
"I guess I just can't see Manny being suspended for that long and then seeing how it will work again. He's been away for that long before, and nothing really improved any of the times he came back. This time, we have to prove him wrong and make sure that he's not as big of a factor than he already is. We need to get some recruits (people who we're close with, and make sure that they're going to make a difference for AGM), writing articles and recruiting are the main things we should focus on right now. If we could get a couple of new writers who will write only for our site, that will make people from outside the site want to come to our site and pay more attention to the articles. We don't even need to worry about recruits at that point, since the new users will bring new users in themselves... directly or indirectly.
This is the start of a clean slate, you guys. So let's start working..."
That little axiom goes both ways, Sister.
BTW - you've made 18 comments on this thread already... what were you saying about "threadjacking"??????
PLEASE reference where Stiles called you "gay". Even once. He might have said "if you get offended by it, then it might be true" or he might have said "you act like you're in love with me and you're pissed that I won't let you blow me" or "your behavior seems pretty non-heterosexual to me" when you posted content of a homosexual nature, he might have said "Are you hitting on me again, Rawb?" or maybe he made references that "You can't have me, I'm straight" but show me where he called you "gay" (in a non-Elizabethan "happy and gay" reference). Even once...
because it doesn't exist. You're a baby, you're full of shit and you exacerbate this issue. You continue to spread lies and slander and state that is what Manny does. You aren't who you pretend to be.
I know Manny Stiles doesn't care if you are gay or not. I know he's said that SEVERAL times to you. Just like he dosn't care if you're a whiny little bitch or not. I certainly don't care and I doubt anyone else BUT YOU cares...
Go ahead make your weak-assed rebuttal, Lame-o. (See, I could have called you 'Flame-o' but didn't. And I didn't call you "gay" either!)
When you use your homophobic jokes, it's offensive, and not just to me. Believe it or not, I'm straight. But not all my friends are. If you call someone a "Jew" because they're cheap, it's just as offensive, even to people who aren't Jews. And that type of joke has no place on AGM.
What really pisses me off is that you can't just say "sorry" even if you only say it to yourself and you're the only one who hears it. You can't just admit that using homosexuality as an insult is a form of hate speech. Not the worst form, but still hate speech.
Nothing to see here. Gordon Schumway here should've known after the Frank Stevenson fiasco that you can't just create more accounts after you've been banned.
I don't know why folks are so concerned about this site. There are times when I'm on it daily, making comments or reading an article or dozen, and I'm fine with this. Occasionally, I'll write an article, get a few votes, fewer comments, and I'll go on with my day.
I never feel that this site is any less viable or interesting than it was the day I joined. It's different, sure, but it's no less interesting. My main problem with Manny - besides his seeming inability to concede a debate point (and I say this kind of tongue in cheek) - was that my attention span did not jibe with his ability to churn out words. I think I'd have appreciated Manny's prodigious and singular writing style more if I'd been able to continue reading past the 3,000th word. This problem is my fault, not his.
I think this site is interesting and worth checking out whether or not Manny Stiles is on it. I also think that having a locker room posting about having banned Stiles is a bit...tacky. I realize that this comment may rub some people the wrong way, and I apologize for any perceived slight. Believe me, it is not my intention to bug anyone.
I've asked this before, and I'll ask it again - please stop saying this site is dying. It's not - it just can't think of anything better to do (anyone remember Ferris Bueller's Day Off?) - it's a fine site and I, for one, enjoy time spent here. It's like a great sports bar - just without the beer.
It's been done before. Usually to explain in detail why someone was banned like Tyrone was last year.
I've asked this before, and I'll ask it again - please stop saying this site is dying.
I think you have to consider what AGM was way before you signed up. If you take a look at site scout 100 comments per day is now fantastic.
When I signed up, over the summer, we'd be reaching upwards to 700-1000 comments per day from several different users. It's not the same anymore. People have come and gone and based on statistics and the drop off in contributions, yes, this site is dying. Doesn't mean it will die, it means it needs some help.
I did see Manny's post after I posted my comment, and I was not sure what to make of it. It did strike me as a dare, or a last act of defiance. It's a shame it had to come to that. I think I can guess what was going on. I did see some of the flamewars and pretty much skipped to other articles when it got to be too much.
I also think that the ban is an interesting move. I would wonder if Manny would even want to come back. I know he's up and left before and come back, but I don't get the impression that this will happen this time. If that turns out to be the case, I think this site will lose a good contributor. But then, this site has many other good contributors, so it will go on.
may be for youu but I'm pretty drunk tright noow.
posted 76 days ago And I've already warned him again. You have to understand I last used the account two years ago when I was a freshman and had a poor sense of humor. A buddy who I shared the account with said he wanted to use it again and I didn't bother to ask why and simply unblocked it. Send False Prophet a Message Board-to-Board Delete False Prophet (private) posted 76 days ago Afro man isn't me. It was me when I banned it, but I gave it to a friend who I shared it with at first. Now it's just him so I don't feel bad about having multiple accounts.
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