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Greatest Market Drop Ever!!!

Posted by JuTMSY4
407 days ago


Actually, I'm kidding (for those of you who remember the "Greatest such and such Ever" article)

But seriously, Look at the dip. At one point 700 points in the Dow (which is a pointless measure for most of us). The S&P (a more accurate measure) is down over 6.5% which is roughly a 700+ point drop in the DJIA (with the DJIA currently down over 550 points or about 5%).

But sadly (well, not sadly...thankfully) this still pales in comparison to the tech stock bust post-9/11 which saw a three month drop of almost 30% of the DJIA.

And remember, thanks to the Depression era stopgaps, it'll take a 10% drop to close the market for an hour (20% for 2 hours and 30% for the day).

Why's this happening? The emotion is probably due to the failed bailout, but the fact of the matter is, the whole world is struggling with credit issues...we (we meaning America...sorry Alex) might actually be ahead of the curve.

On that note, the Tigers and White Sox are on rain delay, so if you're in Chicago, things are particularly grim.

Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
Behbigben15All-Star
407 days ago
Score 0+-
Maybe the Tigers/Sox game should be played in a dome, cuz they really gotta get the regular season over with ASAP.
Permalink | Reply
Steel TownDraft Pick
407 days ago
Score 1+-
Vote this man out of office:


"We're all worried about losing our jobs," Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., declared in an impassioned speech in support of the bill before the vote. "Most of us say, 'I want this thing to pass, but I want you to vote for it — not me.' "

Now thats the words of a public servant if I ever heard them before. Selfish sons of...
Permalink | Reply
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 5+-
Everybody involved in this thing seems to have screwed up at some point. The amount of finger pointing and politicking is simply disgusting. I listened to a Pelosi rant this morning about how this was all George W. Bush's fault. This is everyone's fault. Clinton, Bush, Democrats, Republicans, avaricious lenders, right down to me and the way I use my credit card as a magical "Drink for Free" card at bars.


The Treasury also didn't do anything to market this so-called "bailout." It's not a bailout. It's a buyout. The government wouldn't just give a $700,000,000,000 check made out to "Wall Street."


Of course, this is a crappy time to put a measure like this on the floor of the House. EVERY House member is up for election in a few weeks. As always, they're doing what is best for them to stay in power, not for America.


I used to scold my mother for not doing enough investing with her retirement fund. Now it looks like she outsmarted everybody.


The House is happy, the American people are happy (right now) that the "bailout" didn't get passed. But when they try to buy (or sell) a home, or a car, or secure a student loan for their kids, they'll be asking "How come the government didn't do anything?"
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
407 days ago
Score 2+-
Oh man, so many talking points:

1) I agree, lots of finger pointing and politics at work...makes me wonder what happens if Bush calls a special session during prime campaigning season...

2) You are correct about the bailout...in fact the govt is getting said securities and stakes in companies in return

3) In theory the reps are just representing their constituencies...

4) Depends when your mom was investing...more money is lost timing the market than accepting the losses...besides now's a great time to buy
Permalink
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
407 days ago
Score 2+-
I can see why it failed. If one of us was bankrupt, the banks wouldn't bail us out. So for the public to bail out the banks when they go bankrupt stinks of double standards. I can understand why they voted against it. I would have done the same.
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 1+-
Alex, that word has been horribly misapplied to this situation. The government is going to buy the assets of banks so they will be less spread out. And they're going to buy them at a cut-rate.


And if I go bankrupt, I don't hurt the economy much. If I go bankrupt, people can still buy houses.


Jut: timing wise she's very near retirement, so if she had a mutual fund or something, and was going to cash it out in a few months, it would be bad.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 2+-
Ummm... When you go bankrupt, WHO buys your debts?? Who credits your creditors? The government!!!
Permalink
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
407 days ago
Score 4+-
One thing that I don't understand... US Banks loaned money to people who were very likely to ever be able to pay it back, and as a result, they lose all their money and go bankrupt. The world, and bank owners are surprised they're suddenly bankrupt. Why? A 10 year old could predict that.
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
407 days ago
Score 2+-
its a hair more complicated than that...

With rates adjusting compounded by a dip in housing prices, you simply can't escape the mortgage now...

You've got a mortgage you can't pay...so you sell your house. Problem is, even if you sell your house, you'd only get less than what you paid...meaning you can't pay the mortgage still...

There were also deceptive loan practices (ARMs and what not) and the availability of said capital in part due to selling them as securities...
Permalink
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
407 days ago
Score 2+-
Yeah, negative equity.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 1+-
Don't kid yourself, British youngster... what's bad for America is bad for ALL economies worldwide!


Too bad this is all emotion and non-logic (We Americans really seem to THRIVE on non-logic)
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 3+-
People also get surprised when they buy a scratch ticket and lose.


The banks were also encouraged, and to some extent forced, to make so many bad loans thanks to the CRA. (http://en.wi...vestment_Act) But the banks didn't hesitate to try to get rich off of it. The well run banks are smart enough and diverse enough to withstand the impact of all the defaults and bankruptcies.


This is a financial asteroid killing the fiscal dinosaurs. It's corporate evolution.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 3+-
Enron was just a meteorite giving us a warning?>??
Permalink
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
407 days ago
Score 2+-
Bradford & Bingley and Northern Rock have been nationalised here, meaning the state now owns them. I never thought I'd own two banks by the time I was 19... I just want to know where I can sell my shares in them...
Permalink | Reply
Steel TownDraft Pick
407 days ago
Score 3+-
Well, we here in the states are the proud new owners of Man U's sponser AIG. I wonder if we could sell the sponsership and get some of our money back.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
407 days ago
Score 2+-
about 80 shares a piece I believe...

though I'm curious how to distribution would work exactly...is it based on how much you pay in? Yearly?

Plus, it was just a loan (an expensive one at that!) to create and organized and effective sale, rather than a massive, cheap and crushing firesale...
Permalink
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
407 days ago
Score 3+-
Yes, you have 8 banks and an insurance company! That's just showing off! :-P
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 5+-
And a hotel on Baltic Avenue.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
407 days ago
Score 4+-
Anyone else eagerly awaiting the stock CNN photo of random trader on the floor either sighing or holding his head in his hands... Do they take a new photo every day, or once every few years or what?
Permalink | Reply
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 2+-
My favorite part of the nightly news is the "financial" segment right before commercial. Flash the Dow Jones average and how much it went up or down. I don't think many people know what the Dow actually is.


But the photo of the token distressed trader is why the NYSE is better than NASDAQ.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 2+-
True, true... I bet 99% of people in the U.S. couldn't name more than 5 of the DJIA's 30 components! I bet 98% don't even know that it's ONLY 30 companies that comprise the DJIA.
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 3+-
99% of people would think DJIA was a techno mix artist.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 2+-
RAWB is on a hot streak today!!!
Permalink
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
407 days ago
Score 2+-
"Anyone else eagerly awaiting the stock CNN photo of random trader on the floor" Slow day, huh?
Permalink | Reply
AmphibiousSportsDuoVarsity
407 days ago
Score 2+-
I remember when Charlotte had two major sports franchises and two of the largest US banks. Sigh.
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 2+-
Yawn. Call me when the cell phones don't work anymore...

E-mail me when telemarketers and spammers are in the bread line...

Nudge me when Hollywood can't afford to make movies...

Tap my shoulder when lap dance prices drop...
Permalink | Reply
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 2+-
I agree with you there. The stock market is falling, not the sky. Even the term "economic crisis" is blowing things out of proportion. This is simply an economic change.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 2+-
The American Populus is too Media Sensitive anymore...

People see the stockj market go down and they think it's time to cash out regardless of their investment horizon.

People also forget that "circuit breakers" called stop losses drive the market more than trading does... when those get triggered it sends a waterfall of selling as the market makers grin at not giving a damn at those stop prices...


The government SHOULDN'T bail out Wall St. when it's the SEC that set this off and not REAL market indicators...

The "government" (a bunch of dipshits who have mastered the art of winning political campaigns and popularity contests) BETTER think LONG AND HARD about what they are spending OUR money on before they spend OUR money on it!

Personally, I DON'T want a band aid to fix now what a amputation would have solved ten years ago... this "bailout" is only going to encourage more "bailouts" if they don't put measures in place to prevent history from stuttering over itself!

Employment numbers and inflation are still relatively stable despite the ridiculousness of oil and consumer emotions... a drop in your investments ISN'T REAL!!!

The Dow dropping 1,000 points is no different than when you bet on a ten point spread and your team is down 21 points in the first half!

The MONEY - gains, losses, washes - isn't real until you CASH OUT... A drop is not a realization until you panic and make it so! And then other idiots see you do it and do the same...

As a former stock broker/sheepdog I learned ONE important lesson in investing... A severe majority of investors are mindless, emotional sheep while educated investors/market makers ones are wolves!!!

We're paying the price for policies that were established in the 1990's while we blame the 2000's Bush... who oddly enough was not only the President with the LOWEST confidence rating of any President yet but also the HIGHEST of any President yet... (see: 2002) - isn't THAT an indicator that the media is NOT worth trusting???

Americans!!!! KILL YOUR TELEVISIONS!!! The news that is given to you to impact your "World" has little to do with what impacts your personal WORLD...

If you had to deal with a serious financial matter this week, I'm sorry for you if you didn't plan ahead like a wolf. But by th end of the week, things will be less emotional and much more logical and the market will rebound before you know it...


Like I said before... by Christmas, people will have forgotten about "the economy" et al...


Emotion is NOT what you should use to make wise, logical decisions concerning your future! That goes for YOU too, Congress!!!
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 2+-
I learned a similar lesson in poker. If there weren't bad players, then nobody would make money.


Although I like the idea of a bailout, I'm not nearly financially savvy enough to understand all of its ins and outs. And morally speaking, I've always liked capitalism because of its survival of the fittest. But "The new law of evolution in corporate America seems to be survival of the unfittest. Well, in my book you either do it right or you get eliminated." So this bailout thing irks me.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 2+-
The bailout stabilizes things... BUT, what happens when the next round of dipshits fuck up? They will want a bailout too!!!
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 3+-
It really is nothing more than a tourniquet. Things have to change in order for America to remain the economic superpower that it is. Outsourcing, rising cost of health insurance, and wealth discrepancy are all minefields awaiting us down the road.


With the morons running this country (and their apathetic/uninformed constituencies), I'm worried that this "bailout" will eventually pass, and none of the problems that caused this mess will be solved, and no lessons will be learned.


Although maybe, just maybe, some people will learn some lessons. And some other people will fix the problem. There's always that hope.
Permalink
LASportsblogAAA-er
407 days ago
Score 1+-
It all started going down hill long before there were A.R.M.'s and banks failing and housing markets collapsing...

It all started going to shit when the banks were no longer required to hold deposits on location. If your not forced to hold the currency you're reporting as having then it's all numbers. (So technically) If I walk around the corner to Santa Barbara Bank and Trust or Montecito Savings and Loan and make a run on the bank with all the other residents they can't hand me the money I request.

When we became a digital world that did banking electronically we sealed our own fate. Unless we can revert back to the gold standard or some other precious metal to back our currency (or in my opinion just nationalize the Fed like it should be and then revert to the gold standard) we will never escape the practice of printing paper of decreasing values.

It's odd in this country that those who are responsible for the money, it's management and it's allocations (the congress) don't control how the money is made, leveraged or valued (buying gold to support currency). The whole system is ass-backwards to have the money privatized and until we can get shit on the same page we are going to be running in circles and supporting our economy with smoke and mirrors.
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 2+-
That is over-simplification.

1) we will NEVER revert to the GOLD or silver standard for one simple readon - we'd COMPLETELY devalue it. When we were on the gold standard, there was as much gold in the world as we mine per YEAR now... it's NOT a rare metal.

2) They DO control how the money is made but fail to have any ethical reason for regulating it. When the people making, regulating and upholding the crimes are the most prolific criminals, what is there? If we took the money that was poured into Washington interests and media coverage of Washington - THERE'S your bailout!
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
407 days ago
Score 4+-
uhhh...so you supported President Cleveland?
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 1+-
ooops - "upholding the crimes" was supposed to be "upholding the rules" - eh, what's the difference?
Permalink
LASportsblogAAA-er
407 days ago
Score 2+-
Good points, but screw off on the over-simplification. I only described it as best as I can articulate it what I see. I'm no money manager or "sheepdog" as you put it. I don't have the arsenal or terms and experience you're holding in the field. And anywho you can't deny that having no responsibility to hold deposits reported allowed the banks to feel comfortable in giving away "Bad money" hand over fist.
Permalink
LASportsblogAAA-er
407 days ago
Score 1+-
I support Cleveland like Harry Reid supports good ideas...
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 2+-
The ONLY "bad money" a bank ever had is money they couldn't clear a spread on...
Permalink
LASportsblogAAA-er
407 days ago
Score 2+-
You mean like Sub-primes?
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 6+-
Second time I've been able to sneak a Simpsons quote in this thread:


"Grover Cleveland spanked me on two non-consecutive occasions."
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
407 days ago
Score 4+-
its ashame that quote's going under the radar...
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
407 days ago
Score 5+-
If you hang around those street corner Mexican 24 hour take out joints, or frequent Asian restaurants, you most certainly have eaten someone's pet.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 3+-
Americans need...NEED a real reminder what FREEDOM means.

We're bitching about a war in another country yet NONE of us have ever had a militia walk into our house and kill our oldest brothers and Dad... none of us have ever had to sleep in a bathtub to protect us from night time shrapnel...


None of us have ever starved for a single day or had to eat our family pet to make it through another day.

NONE of us have ever died from dysentery because we could no longer walk ten miles for a gallon of clean drinking water...

No, we bitch about the "News" yet fail to realize the "News is 99% of what someone else has an interest in having us hear" and about 1% of what is REALLY going on in this world.


When pharmaceutical companies and cosmetic companies and movie rental companies start going out of business - when the papparazzi photogs are looking for real work - instead of finacial institutions (who always seem to make a profit on greed and not business) suffering THEN let's get "worried"...
Permalink | Reply
LASportsblogAAA-er
407 days ago
Score 3+-
NONE of us have ever died from dysentery because we could no longer walk ten miles for a gallon of clean drinking water...

Nope! I survived my bout with dysentery, and now I'm here to tell you about it.

It all started with a glass of Mexican tap water...
Permalink
LASportsblogAAA-er
407 days ago
Score 2+-
When pharmaceutical companies and cosmetic companies and movie rental companies start going out of business - when the papparazzi photogs are looking for real work - instead of finacial institutions (who always seem to make a profit on greed and not business) suffering THEN let's get "worried"...

Now THIS is real talk!!!

I got up this morning, the food places were open, the market was taking customers... The buses ran on time and when I ran peoples credit cards at work they were approved...

...For the most part daily American life hasn't been altered and won't be altered... but does that me we are truly OK in the long run? Or that we have found ways to buy time to keep our facades looking pretty and our money looking green?
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 1+-
Well, all I know is when America votes for the guy that says "our primary concern is the economy" (even though they BOTH have a hand in the current situation) and he "can fix the economic mess" then we will find ourselves in a nuclear fiasco with Pakistan and/or Iran... and a weaker economy because WE'RE ALL GETTING TAXED regardless!!!
Permalink
LASportsblogAAA-er
407 days ago
Score 2+-
3 constants in this world:
  • Death
  • Taxes
  • Manny MutherFacking Stiles!
Permalink
DRE-LOAAA-er
407 days ago
Score 2+-
Pharmaceutical companies will NEVER go out of business. Health care is the biggest hustle out there. They won't be getting a dime out of me. It's amazing how they make money by prescribing all of these "amazing" pharmaceutical drugs only to find out 2 months later than people have either suffered heart attacks or liver damage from taking these drugs. If anything needs to be reformed in this country, it's the FDA.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 2+-
LEGALIZE WEED AND there's YOUR BAILOUT, Congress...

Crush the black market, eliminate the need to house petty criminals and amuse tha masses all in one fell swoop. They can make ethanol out of the stalks and foodstuffs out of the seeds...

Problem solved!!!

Plus we can all get stoned so we can laugh at how how laughable this situation really is!
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 4+-
Legalize weed and Frito-Lay stock will skyrocket.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
407 days ago
Score 5+-
Trust me...without liquidity, American Life will be interrupted...wait till the local bar can't get the credit to buy beer, oil companies to drill for oil (or research), gas stations to buy gas, your own company to pay to at the end of the week

We run on credit...not debt, but credit...

It is a problem...

If you think this is just a financial services issue, you're very very wrong.

Am I for the bailout? Not necessarily (though we're hardly "bailing" them out). But I think y'all need to understand that this will effect you...and not 401k effect you, but ability for your employer to pay you, ability to use credit card, ability to get a loan for school/house/business/etc effect you...

All of my friends are losing their jobs...not 6 figure salary jobs, but people who have 6 figure debt from school and are living on 40k (with a rent and what might as well be a mortgage in school loans)...

To boil this down to the collapse of Wall Street Giants and rich white men is a gross misrepresentation of the facts...
Permalink
DRE-LOAAA-er
407 days ago
Score 2+-
I honestly think that we should fire more than half of the people in Congress and replace them with cartoon characters.

Congress is so broken it's a damn shame.

http://longi...;TM=67059.85

Read this article ABOVE. I'm not bailing out these greedy people who've carried the practice of deregulation to an incredibly insane level and thus caused this mess. How Phil Gramm hasn't been told to step down yet is beyond me.
Permalink | Reply
LASportsblogAAA-er
407 days ago
Score 2+-
Like Bugs Bunny playing baseball at every position? Now starting for California: Bugs Bunny, for Nevada: Bugs Bunny, New York: Bugs Bunny...
Permalink
LASportsblogAAA-er
407 days ago
Score 3+-
Graham, Pelosi, Reed, you name it, they are all media darling, whiny crooks!
Permalink
Oh No RomoDraft Pick
407 days ago
Score 1+-
Dre, if you want to get rid of these clowns, then vote! Vote to get your representatives out of congress. You might not get rid of the other leaders, but make a difference in your own district.
Permalink
Oh No RomoDraft Pick
407 days ago
Score 2+-
In short, VOTE DAMN IT!
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 0+-
Yeah, because votng will do more than any assassination attempt ever did!
Permalink
Steel TownDraft Pick
406 days ago
Score 3+-
Actually, I'm attempting to oust those clowns by running for office. Obviously I'm starting at the local level though, so it will be a while before I get to the federal level (if I do). But, I bet I can achieve more at the local level than in the federal govmt anyway.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 1+-
Everytime one of those "idiots" says the number "1929" remind them that that "the Great Depression" was as much driven by nature (see: The Dust Bowl") as it was an Econoimic Issue...

Until we have ten years of drought... (which started BEFORE the "Crash" on Wall St.)... well, it doesn't matter because we're simply not as economically driven by farming as we were in the the 20's and 30's...

SENSATIONALISM drives ratings... not economies!
Permalink | Reply
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 3+-
My favorite buzzline on the crawler was "$1.2 trillion was lost in the stock market today?"


Lost? Money? Whoever finds it will have a Merry Christmas. Or maybe it just disapeared.
Permalink
LASportsblogAAA-er
407 days ago
Score 2+-
My dad likes to spin this hypothetical on me sometimes about money and the economy:
  • Part 1

Son I dropped a 1 dollar bill in 1971. Today that 1 dollar bill is worth 10 dollars. You found that 1 dollar bill and only bought 1/10 of what I would of bought with it in 1971.

Did I lose 10 dollars? Or did you find 1/10 of what I lost?

  • Part 2

On the other hand, you lost a 10 dollar bill today and buys the same things my 1 dollar bill did in 1971. Did you lose 10 dollars or did you lose 1/10 of what I lost in 1971 since you only lost that same original "1 dollar worth of buying power"???

I don't know if either question is logical or able to be related to the subject on hand - but I DO know that when I try to figure it out it makes my head hurt.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
407 days ago
Score 2+-
Much ado about nothing, really. Ever watch Animal Planet? The weak are killed off so the strong survive. Squirrels horde acorns for the winter, they won't share or even eat until they now for sure they have enough, then gorge for a month. Come January, this will all be a distant memory. Just like the 100 times this has happened before, and the countless times it will happen again.
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
407 days ago
Score 1+-
Differnt name, same story... It's 2008 = Election year x More Hype than EVER!!!
Permalink
Agent0Red-Shirting
407 days ago
Score 1+-
Stocks are too confusing.

Economic crash and whatnot...does this mean they'll stop building Yankee Stadium II and make them play in some little league ballpark? That would be grand.

I have an idea to help America...lets take all the overpaid Yankees salaries pay them what they deserve and that should dig us right out of this hole.
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
406 days ago
Score 2+-
And in the surprise story of the week... the DOW had it's third biggest jump "ever"... up 485 points.It'll probably end up for the week by Friday... See why it sucks to panic and remove your assets???
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
406 days ago
Score 1+-
The "surprise" is 100% sarcasm.
Permalink
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