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This is a the place to discuss the site, community issues, discuss ideas for opinions, and other things related to the community but not specifically about sports. You can add something to the locker room by clicking the link.

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BigPPup and JuTMSY4 Propose the ArmchairGM Code of Conduct

Posted by JuTMSY4
638 days ago


As you can see, BigPPup and JuTMSY4 are proposing the following Code of Conduct for the site. This CoC is not meant to simply be an honor code, but a a guide to how users should conduct themselves.

Please read over it and make edits through the comments. Please do not edit the document itself, as we'd like every user to see it in it's original form. Once everyone has had their opportunity to read it, we will then propose a final copy that will be approved by the users.

Please note, that Cornfed78 wrote the Personal Attack section.

As always, if you have any questions, please let any of us know:

[edit] ArmchairGM Code of Conduct

[edit] Introduction

While we are a wiki, and do value freedom, and no matter what the status of a user is, they have agreed to uphold the Terms of Service that they agreed to when they first started. Users should be reminded that no matter their true intent, it is the duty and decision of an Administrator to decide any consequences for questionable actions. Users are expected to respect the decisions of the Administrators, and Administrators are expected to not make decisions on events that they were involved in. Questionable content, as listed in the Terms of Service (ToS), includes: [content] that is tortuous, threatening, harmful, hateful, unlawful, libelous, defamatory, harassing, abusive, fraudulent, vulgar, obscene, contains viruses, or is otherwise objectionable or potentially damaging, as reasonably determined by ArmchairGM.com and its Administrators.

With that said, presented below are the five (5) major points of which all ArmchairGM user's are expected to abide by:

Special Thanks to: Users: Tylersalt, The Beast, False Prophet, Kelsdad,Sasha as well as Wikipedia, who's framework we utilized and numerous other forums, such as ESPN (as cited).

[edit] User Accepted Practices:

Please see Terms of Service.

Since inception ArmchairGM has been a sports wiki dedicated to “All Sports, All You.” But ArmchairGM has grown beyond simple editing and writing and has become what you've decided to make it.

Because of this collaborative culture please note the following Principals of User Accepted Practices:

1) The Good Faith Assumption - Much like Wikipedia, ArmchairGM assumes all users are attempting to becomes better, more involved or more informed writers. No user should be here to damage, destroy or break apart the community

2) The Golden Rule - Treat others the way you expect to be treated

3) Civility - We are all fans. We (most of us) all have favorite teams. We all will argue over different sporting concepts, but keep civility in mind. There may not be one true answer. Maintain logical arguments, do not use ad hominem attacks and focus on the issue at hand. Do not resort to personal attacks. If no agreement can be reached, please agree to disagree. While arguments, disputes and challenges are welcome, keep them focused on the issues at hand and not each other. In maintaining civility, it's important that you always be the proverbial “Bigger Man (Or Woman).” No matter what level the other person takes it, always try to keep the issue more civil, so that you do not contribute to it. If an issue gets out of hand, let the other user know right away, rather the reverting to “fighting back.” If this does not work, contact an administrator.

4) You're Not Always Right - No one is, so be prepared to apologize.

5) Forgive and Forget - If something happens and the issue has been handled, move on.

6) Understand Yourself - You are who you are. You have your own biases, agendas and thoughts, as do other users. Know that when an issue comes up that you have an opinion on, others probably will too and they may be different. Understand this. If you're in a heated debate, consider taking a break. Many users have done this and have mediated discussion successfully.

7) Be a Mediator - You will see other disputes. Do your best not to stop them, but to ensure they remain focused and fair.

8) Follow Larry Sanger - Larry Sanger was a Wikipedia founder who provided a few words of advice prior to leaving Wikipedia, consider some of them:

  • Be open and warmly welcoming, not insular,
  • Recognize and praise the best work, work that is detailed, factual, well-informed, and well-referenced.
  • Treat your fellow productive, well-meaning members of ArmchairGM with respect and good will,
  • Attract and honor good people who know a lot and can write about it well
  • Show the door to trolls, vandals, and wiki-nihilists, who, if permitted, would waste your time and create a poisonous atmosphere here.
  • Be Part of the Solution
  • Don't play games and utilize the policies to damage the community
  • Ensure the community runs smoothly
  • Don't attack specific users

9) Keep it closed - If an issue has already been handled, leave it be

10) Stay away from users you don't like - If you don't like someone, don't talk to them

11) Disputes - Try to avoid heated arguments with other users. Whenever possible try to settle your disputes privately with the party involved. If a solution can be made than it is encouraged that you discuss this with an administrator.

12) The Kelsdad Corollary - "If you would not submit your article and/or comments to a future employer, or to any other journalistic medium, then do not submit it here."

13) Welcome All New Users - You were once new too. Welcome each user with open arms, as he or she could become a valuable editor, contributor or commenter. Bring them, welcome them, help them, integrate them.

Appealing to (or claiming support from) the policy for some action or stance, which the user knows does not reflect the true intent and spirit of the policy, or Misrepresenting policy in a way which the user knows will harm ArmchairGM or its users will not be tolerated

Remember, ArmchairGM's ToS allows for members 13 years of age and older, therefore, if you would not want your 13 year old child, sibling, cousin or related person seeing what you wrote, than do not write it

[edit] Commenting:

Commenting on articles, topics, links, polls and so on has become an integral part of ArmchairGM. Commenting is also the easiest way to display a point, argue a topic, promote a thought and develop ideas. It has also become the easiest way to: "flame" "spam," "flood," "troll," and any other synonym for such items on the internet. None of these will be tolerated.

Comments related to spamming, advertising or illicit in nature will not be tolerated

The following types of comments will also not be tolerated:

(a)Defamatory, abusive, harassing, insulting, threatening, or that could be deemed to be stalking; (b) bigoted, hateful, or racially offensive; (c) vulgar, obscene, or overtly sexually explicit (language or images); or that (d) encourages or advocates illegal activity or the discussion of illegal activities with the intent to commit them. (e) copyright, patent, trademark, or other proprietary rights; (f) right of privacy (specifically, you must not distribute another person's personal information of any kind without their express permission) or publicity; (g) any confidentiality obligation. Remember, this applies to the degree of which a thirteen year old could witness. [1]

If a user finds a comment to be:

  • abusive in any way
  • off-topic
  • an ad-hominem attack
  • promoting hate of any kind
  • excessively foul language
  • blatantly spam

Then the user should request to remove the comment if s/he deems it necessary. This should be directed at an Administrator, who will then attempt to handle the situation.

[edit] Articles:

Articles are the basis of the Armchair GM community. They are the place where users can express their ideas, voice opinions and show their wit and knowledge on any variety of sports and sports related topics.


  • Articles should be original content created by an AGM user.
  • Articles should contain proper citations if an outside source is referenced.
  • ArmchairGM's ToS allows for members 13 years of age and older, therefore, if you would not want your 13 year old child, sibling, cousin or related person seeing what you wrote, than do not write it
  • While most users on Armchair GM are amateur writers, articles should be written with the user's own level of professionalism
  • Articles should be sports related; they are not a platform to attack other users or Armchair GM as a web site.
  • Plagiarism will not be tolerated. Any potentially plagiarized article should be noted by a user, referenced by an administrator and deleted. The plagiarizing user will then be subject to suspension and repeated offenses will result in an infinite ban.


[edit] Encyclopedia Entries

Other than sports articles, no feature is more vital to the success of Armchair GM than the Encyclopedia. The sports encyclopedia is the place for AGM users to find every detail of every team, athlete and any sports related question they may have.

  • The Encyclopedia is a reference tool.
  • Users can update and add any factual needed to a profile.
  • The Encyclopedia is to remain neutral at all times
  • The only agenda of the Encyclopedia is to spread knowledge.

[edit] The Locker Room

The locker room is a place for ArmchairGM members to discuss among themselves community issues, sporting news that does not warrant a full article, and other issues of the day. Like the locker room of any sports team, we expect members to treat each other with civility. While inevitably, minor disagreements will occur, we expect you to do what anyone else would do: keep it in the locker room, and keep it from becoming a full-blown war.

The locker room is the community's clubhouse. As such, it is everyone's responsibility to ensure that the locker room remains a hospitable place for community members. It is is a place to express ideas and opinions that may not be full blown articles or ideas that may not be completely sports related.

  • Caption contest, name games and other such ideas fall into the locker room category.
  • The Locker Room is a place where non-sports related debates can play themselves out.
  • The Locker Room is not a place for a flame war to play itself out.
  • Like all good locker rooms, what is said in the locker room stays in the locker and does not spill out into other sections of the web site.

[edit] Hot Links

The Hot Links section is a place to link to other web sites that have interesting, funny, rumors, etc.

  • Hot Links are used when another site is reference but no original content is generated.
  • Hot Links should be submitted to link administrator for review before posting.

[edit] Editing

Because Armchair GM is a wiki, every user has the ability to edit articles, news, headlines, encyclopedia and many other aspects of the web site. Editing should be done with the intent of improving the overall quality of Armchair GM. Every Armchair GM user has the ability to edit, and should look at that as a privilege that should not be abused.

Acceptable Edits:

  • Wikifying keywords and terms
  • Correcting spelling or grammatical errors
  • Correcting formatting errors
  • Adding a related picture to an article
  • Updating or adding an encyclopedia entry.
  • Helping another user to enhance a project.

At no time is it acceptable to edit any part of Armchair GM with malicious intent. Destruction of another user's work will be considered a violation of the policy. When editing, only edit an article to the degree you would like someone to edit your article.

[edit] Violation of the Code of Conduct:

1) Violation Layout

  • A Singular Egregious Violation of one of the above issues, noted by a user and verified by an administrator will result in a verbal/written warning directly to the user via private message only. The noting user may or may not be identified or told of the warning.
  • A Second offense (after the warning) over the same issue will result in a twenty-four (24) ban from the site. This includes additional flaming, fighting, picking, etc as well as bringing issue to other areas (such as a lockerroom post) or continuing to be a concern after the warning. This also includes repeat offenses that are not directly related, but similar in nature.
  • A Third Offense will result in a one (1) week to one (1) month ban depending on the severity of the issue, the history of the user and the damage to the community.
  • A fourth Offense may result in a ban from one (1) hour to an infinite ban, at the discretion of an administrator. Any ban of more than one month, must be corroborated by at least two administrators and a permanent ban must be corroborated by a founder/high level administrator.

Multiple egregious violations in a small time period will be considered a singular violation (i.e. a flame war on a single article). The administrator reserves the right to enforce a one (1) hour to twenty-four (24) ban, as needed, to end a flame war and/or calm a user. This ban will be used judicially.

Any ban beyond 24 hours will require a second administrator's (non-affiliated with the issue) corroboration of the concern.

When reviewing a violation, the administrator will take in to account previous violations (regardless of type) when considering a punishment. This does not mean that a user who once caused a significant issue will be elevated to a second offense, but rather the timing, type and regard to the previous issue will be considered.

These rules do not apply to non-registered users, whose rights are at the discretion of the administrators.

2) What do you do it you see a violation?

If you notice a situation that is or develops into a violation, you may wish to diffuse the situation yourself. As a self-directed wiki, ArmchairGM encourages this, but please be aware of that participation in such an issue may result in personal/user harm. If you wish not to be involved, but are concerned about the issue, please contact at administrator.

If the violation is directly related to you, private messages are the first defense in controlling an issue with administrator alerts being an alternative option. Please be aware that once an administrator is involved, s/he will consider the violation/issue as a whole and punishment may be forced upon all involved.

As a general rule, please consider whether you'd like an administrator to act/react on all actions of the violation. If it is a clear and egregious violation on one users part, then the fact will stand for themselves.

3) Disputing a Violation

Administrators are people too. They make mistakes and they also have difficulty understanding the entirety of the situation. If you are accused of a violation, the administrator's goal is to ensure the community remains intact, not to punish you or promote the other person. If you feel the punishment is unfair, contact the administrator. If you still disagree contact another administrator or optionally a founder, who will be glad to hear your grievances.

[edit] What is a Personal Attack:

Personal attacks are a rhetorical strategy of attacking one’s opponent personally rather than attacking their views, argument, or stance on an issue.

Threats of violence, including death threats against other users and members of a users family (this includes posting pictures of violence or links to websites related to violence).

Posting personal information about a user or a user's family (names, addresses, phone numbers, photos, email addresses).

Racial, sexual, homophobic, ageist, religious or ethnic epithets directed against another user. (Disagreement over what constitutes a religion, race, sexual preference, or ethnicity is not a legitimate excuse.)

Profanity directed specifically against another user.

Continued ill treatment and berating of users who have previously been punished/banned/disciplined by the Administrators in cases where the user has changed their ways and learned from their mistakes.

Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
638 days ago
Score 5+-
This is awesome work - congrats guys!
Permalink | Reply
Anonymous Fanatic #1
637 days ago
Score 1+-
That's great, but which "Tyrone" is this, Patrick or Matt?
Permalink
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
638 days ago
Score -10+-
Let's talk sports.
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
638 days ago
Score 15+-
The code of conduct is important. More than an "awesome work" it is a framework for the community to alter and adapt. It is not a completed work as of yet...

Perhaps you should take longer than two minutes and re-read it again. Perhaps you should read ALL articles you feel the need to post comments on?

Also, kindly consider that "talking sports" requires more than saying "Let's talk sports"...
Permalink
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
638 days ago
Score -12+-
Let's talk sports.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 18+-
listen frank...if you can't at least talk about this in the context its meant, then don't talk about it at all...
Permalink
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
638 days ago
Score 2+-
I'm all for you guys coming up with a code of conduct. Just be careful with new users and don't go too hard on them if they make a mistake (such as posting in the wrong spot- if it's a locker room, or an article, or a hot link for example).
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 11+-
13) Welcome All New Users - You were once new too. Welcome each user with open arms, as he or she could become a valuable editor, contributor or commenter. Bring them, welcome them, help them, integrate them.
Permalink
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
638 days ago
Score 0+-
I see it. I'm just saying when I first started here I did post things in the wrong spots. I got blasted by certain people about it. That's all.
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
638 days ago
Score 1+-
Good point Frank. New users need to be educated upon the new rules and regulations governed and enforced by the admins here on the site. This is the key to foster a growing culture of positive forward thinking individuals that share and respect each other's opinions regardless of diversity void of profanity.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
638 days ago
Score 3+-
I remember when you guys came to this site for the first time.


[edit] I remember VERY well

the first words I ever said to you....

What were you saying about new users??? How would you suggest we treat new users that act like that?

Funny how some things never change.
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
638 days ago
Score 2+-
I bursted out luaghing at cpcp's comment" "You can come up with some really interesting sentences if you slowly scroll down this thread and pick out random words. "
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
638 days ago
Score 1+-
My favorite 3:

#3 - when Roblefko first pointed out that several users came through with the same IP address - bet you can't guess who?

[http://www.a...omment-72036

  1. 2]
"Only 2 more months until we get another season of overhyped Patriots articles ending in the usual post-season excusefest." my favorite #1
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 2+-
i liked the part where FP talked about his penis...
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
638 days ago
Score 3+-
haha, yeah, I assumed they were just random trolls that were passing by, and decided to try and incite them to block them, but all it did was make things worse
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
638 days ago
Score 4+-
Manny, I'm stunned that your favorite 2 were your own. Absolutely stunned.
Permalink
CheezerAll-Star
638 days ago
Score 9+-
I will take some time to read this in detail. I'll say that per my first perusal, I have several items that, I think, require clarification.

Please allow me some time to give this it's due diligence.

Thanks for the effort.

(sharpens red pencil)
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 6+-
that's fine cheezer...that's exactly what i was hoping for...this isn't my policy or BPP's...its the community's...
Permalink
Sj-hypocycloidAll-American
637 days ago
Score 1+-
I was just looking at the code of conduct. Nice work. I wanted to mention a few things. Even though I can't spell Favre, I think I spotted a couple of typos: "1) The Good Faith Assumption - Much like Wikipedia, ArmchairGM assumes all users are attempting to becomes better," (I think this should be become). Another one I saw was this: "11) Disputes - Try to avoid heated arguments with other users. Whenever possible try to settle your disputes privately with the party involved. If a solution can be made than it is encouraged that you discuss this with an administrator." (I think this should be 'then' ). And this one is a question: "Hot Links are used when another site is reference but no original content is generated." (wondering if 'reference' should be 'referenced'). Other than these small items, it's a great document.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
637 days ago
Score 0+-
thanks, i'll look into those...
Permalink
BigPPupMajor Leaguer
638 days ago
Score 7+-
The goal of this is to have a basis on which we can build what is already a great community. It is both JT's and my goal to make the chair the best sports web site in the world, and that is done by building the greatest community in the world
Permalink | Reply
CheezerAll-Star
638 days ago
Score 4+-
Preachin' to the Choir
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
638 days ago
Score 4+-
Perhaps there could be a part that defines representing AGM in public - at sporting events, in the press boxes, on other mediums such as TV and video, in marketing, promotional and commercial applications... what have you. In case anyone were to ever lead this site into those realms?
Permalink
BigPPupMajor Leaguer
638 days ago
Score 4+-
That goes into a whole different realm of making bloggers reporters and journalist, and thats an uphill fight that I deal with everyday and am not ready to bring it to the Chair just yet.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 2+-
that's all you manny...do it up yourself...
Permalink
EkomVarsity
638 days ago
Score 2+-
I've been outspoken and vocal about accepting new users for a long time.

If someone wants to edit the "Beat_Writer" finer points.

I'm more of a storyteller and soothsayer than textbook writer...

But my writing does tend to stand the test of time!
Permalink
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
638 days ago
Score 5+-
Good work guys. Just make sure the CoC is placed neatly in a place it can be easily accessed. Rather than a lockerroom post that will shortly disappear, and be traditionally awkward to search for. :)
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 1+-
correct alex...this is a review post...

Dan's aware one is being drafted and I'm sure he (and the other founders) will want a look at it too...

my goal is to gather input prior to presenting a final copy for voting and such...

Then I hope to ask the founders to not only will give it a prominent spot, but also present it when a user signs up...
Permalink
BigPPupMajor Leaguer
638 days ago
Score 2+-
Oh the founders will read it accept it and post it on the site and send it to all new users. And if they dont, then I predict pain. AGM Linebacker pain.
Permalink
DNLLegend
638 days ago
Score 1+-
Yeah, we'll put it somewhere easy.
Permalink
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
638 days ago
Score 4+-
DNL dodges a bullet... or at least a lot of pain.
Permalink
BigPPupMajor Leaguer
638 days ago
Score 2+-
Even a founder isn't safe from the wrath of the AGM Linebacker
Permalink
Yakob878MVP
638 days ago
Score 1+-
to questions if adding pictures is an edit than so is adding a video, two can some one explain the link thing inposted one last saturday and it was never put up
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 2+-
first of all...can you retype that...not quite sure what you're saying...

secondly, I think there's only 2 link admins as of right now...and I've only been doing it since Tuesday...so You'd have to ask dan...

Generally, its because its either a duplicate or doesn't belong...but i can't speak for him...
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 1+-
Yeah, we should add a section for videos...perhaps vids and pics should be together?
Permalink
BigPPupMajor Leaguer
638 days ago
Score 0+-
Yeah Vids and pics can be lumped together and talked about.
Permalink
Yakob878MVP
638 days ago
Score 1+-
ok, so i am guessing with your 2nd comment you got what i was saying correct?
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 0+-
yeah...sorry...the "to" threw me off...
Permalink
Yakob878MVP
638 days ago
Score 0+-
thats ok, i as many on this site know i might be the worst at spelling and grammer, but to my surprise alex has never corected me on it.
Permalink | Reply
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
638 days ago
Score 0+-
Getting back to the part where people can access the document. It should be the first page after someone registers as a user. The new user reads the doc then clicks "I agree" in order to proceed to the front page and post/write/edit/etc. as an ArmchairGM member.
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 3+-
we have a terms of service...and that's something, Dan, Pean, Aaron and Rob will have to decide on...

I think their goal was for the community to do this...

anyways...
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
638 days ago
Score 0+-
I am simply offering a suggestion as a follow up to Alex H's astute point. Yes, it is indeed reasonable for the placement of this document to be the decision of the founders.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 1+-
i think the placement is an administrata thing...its just something we don't know about (none of us made those pages)...
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
638 days ago
Score 1+-
TB, You do realize it's because of people who act like yourself and "Frank" that they had to create this document in the first place? There was never even an ignore button until you came here.

AGM used to be about sports...

Sorry I had to muck this up with so many comments, guys. I'm out...

We'll always had the times we shared, AGM. They can't take THAT away!!!

Best of luck skimming the turds out of the pool, all.
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
638 days ago
Score 0+-
In addition JuT, I might suggest drafting a concluding statement that in the set forth honor code that the terms are subject to change by the ArmchairGM community. This allows the opportunity to re-visit the document and edit/modify/add.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 0+-
yeah...i'll add one shortly, because I'd like you guys to look at it...
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 3+-
Please, everyone, make some edits/suggestions... remember, in comments only please
Permalink | Reply
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
638 days ago
Score 0+-
As to the issue of profanity...

"Profanity directed specifically against another user."

Does this website have a profanity filter? Registered users would be dealt with by the admins/founders. No problemo. However anons have left some pretty profane/racist statements here at the 'Chair on ancient threads that nobody here might visit in quite sometime.

The point? These articles and threads might be read by visitors that think the comments left by anons were accepted by the website (which of course were not).

Just asking.
Permalink | Reply
BigPPupMajor Leaguer
638 days ago
Score 1+-
If it comes to editing old articles and post or whatever, that is a different issue than addressing the actual use of profanity in a post. We can clan up those old post in a number of different manors.
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
638 days ago
Score 1+-
I think an additional line in the document that addresses such anon comments is warranted with respect to instructing a registered user to site the concern to an admin/founder rather than "deal with it directly". Such unilateral action seems to cause unnecessary flames. Just a sincere suggestion.
Permalink
BigPPupMajor Leaguer
638 days ago
Score 1+-
Well noted, thanks TB
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 1+-
these rules do not necessarily apply to the non-registered...admins can take care of those guys without prejudice As far as removing comments...there aren't many of us who can do it...
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
638 days ago
Score 0+-
I think you've identified an important feature that should be added for the betterment of the 'Chair, JuT. Admins should be allowed to remove Anon comments that contain profanity/racism/etc.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 0+-
there's a reason people can't remove comments except high level admins (Arnold T Pants, whats his face is a wikia guy, who i believe can as well)... Perhaps anons only though TB...its a thought and probably a bitch for pean to implement...
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
638 days ago
Score 0+-
Some of these anon remarks are highly offensive. And undoubtedly read by visitors of the site. No easy solutions there, I admit.
Permalink
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
638 days ago
Score 0+-
Sorry but why do you allow anons to post here again? Why can't they register like everyone else?
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 1+-
yep...my crowning achievement of the day is that someone got that joke... still on fire bobbyjim...
Permalink
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
638 days ago
Score 3+-
Even if you reply to the wrong place, if it's a comment about me, I'll find it :)
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 0+-
ha, thanks!
Permalink
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
638 days ago
Score 5+-
I think when it comes to banning people for violations, it should be approved by two or more admins. No offense to them, but FP and Beast have banned people perhaps prematurely before, and I don't think that's okay. I'm not saying they should lose their privledges as admins (did Beast get his back? I can't remember), because they both are great users, but I think it should be clear that someone deserves to be banned before they actually are banned for any amount of time. Really good work though guys.
Permalink | Reply
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
638 days ago
Score 1+-
BJ45 brings up a terrific point. Mistakes do happen of course but at the complete expense of the accused/deemed "guilty". Perhaps anything longer than a 24 hour ban should agreed upon by a community consensus determined number of administrators. And any admin directly involved in a dispute, should not be permitted to block another party under any circumstances.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
638 days ago
Score -1+-
I vote for that number being one.

An Admin is an Admin. Don't give them a gun if you don't want them to shoot it. Get a second guy in there for backup and then you do an investigation if needed.

If you don't need two for spam, you don't need two for trolls.
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
638 days ago
Score 0+-
Well, that is one singular opinion.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 4+-
Any ban beyond 24 hours will require a second administrator's (non-affiliated with the issue) corroboration of the concern.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
638 days ago
Score 4+-
so are your minuses. As is your constant need to have the last word.
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
638 days ago
Score 1+-
That sounds good, JuT.
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
638 days ago
Score -1+-
The minuses are unfortunate. Here is a "plus"!
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 0+-
that's what i can up with... the general gist of banning is...1-24 hours can be done by an admin...more than that requires a second admin...over a month requires a 3rd and an indefinite ban requires a founder...
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 4+-
i mean, its in the document...
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 3+-
and my theory behind that is this: (hypothetically) Tyrone, lets say you use some racial slur that offends BPP...then you get a warning...then you don't stop and its 4am... I can ban you asap...and then if need be...i can bring in admins later to determine the appropriate response...the goal is to prevent one admin from going nuts and banning, but still giving them the ability to end a situation...think of it as a check/balance
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 3+-
special: Log/Rights Yes, Beast does...
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
638 days ago
Score 1+-
"Any ban beyond 24 hours will require a second administrator's (non-affiliated with the issue) corroboration of the concern."

Yeah, it is right here.

And seems okay. What do you think BJ45?
Permalink
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
638 days ago
Score 0+-
What's the point of the thumbs down. Can't we just have thumbs up?
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
638 days ago
Score 1+-
"I can ban you asap...and then if need be...i can bring in admins later to determine the appropriate response...the goal is to prevent one admin from going nuts and banning, but still giving them the ability to end a situation...think of it as a check/balance"

Gotcha JuT. But what happens if a situation arises where two admins are going at (with each other?)

Sounds stupid maybe. But it could happen.
Permalink
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
638 days ago
Score -2+-
24 hour ban? How about a 3 hour ban?
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 3+-
I was afraid this would happen...

well...worse case scenario, they ban each other...and i'd say defer to a high level admin on that...

With that said...would someone (anyone?) mind coming up with an admin code of conduct...

I don't think it should mean, you need to be a super-user...but that basically you won't be (as tyrone would say) facktard on AGM...
Permalink
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
638 days ago
Score -1+-
How do I say this nicely.... I think the problem here is TOO many admins. If you narrowed them down to say 5 everything would be better. 5 people we know and that we trust. Do the 24 hour ban, anything more is seconded by another admin. This would elimiate a lot of problems currently being brought up. With only 5 admins this would eliminate the percentage and possibilities of them going at it, eliminate the happy go crazy ban admin, etc, etc. What do you think? Why do we need 20 or so admins?
Permalink
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
638 days ago
Score -1+-
mo' admins = mo' problems.
Permalink
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
638 days ago
Score 7+-
Oh okay, I missed the part about a second admin for 24+ hours. That's fine with me. If two admins go at it and can't handle their problems privately, then they don't deserve to be admins.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 3+-
Why don't you just say, eliminate the admins I don't like?

What you're failing to realize is that people like False Prophet (example) clean up a lot of crap...plus, rarely can multiple admins be on, if there are only 5...

5 would be: DNL, Pean, Awright, Roblefko and a wikia person...they don't have time for that...
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 4+-
more plusses if i could BJ45
Permalink
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
638 days ago
Score 3+-
And I have to say I kind of agree with Frank on this issue. There are too many admins. Problem is, you can't really strip admins of their privlidges now.
Permalink
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
638 days ago
Score 3+-
Maybe only a few other than the founders should have the ability to ban people. But this is a problem that can't be fixed in this code of conduct.
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
638 days ago
Score 1+-
Looking at this objectively, I don't anybody is suggesting anyone in particular for doing a poor job/abuse of power with admin status (at least I don't believe that is the case). However, perhaps distinguishing between "editors" (edit wiki related materials) and "admins" (monitor the threads/posts/articles) is necessary?
Permalink
Captain SarcasticWaterboy
638 days ago
Score 7+-
The problem isn't too many admins, it's too many trolls!

JuTMYSY4 went out of his way to help the community with the framework. Stop acting like a moron with him. Read the document, and take his suggestions, and you'll act like a normal person who accepts responsibility, of some form, and won't need to worry about what happens if you cross whatever lines, may be there.

Stop acting, like have violated the terms of service, you need to act, at least, 13 years old, too!That's all I've got to say, about that.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 1+-
There are 13 current active (relatively) admins on the site, not including the founders: Alex Holowczak, BigPPup, Coreyisarealboy, Davis21wylie, Enybo, Erooster, False Prophet, JuTMSY4, Romiezzo, The Beast, The shark, Thecrookedcap, Tylersalt

There are also 6 high level admins (founders/wikia): ArnoldTPantsEsq , Awrigh01 , DNL, Pean, Roblefko, Sansse

3 semi-active ones: Patrickburke1980, Christof and I am a CPCP

A 5 inactives:

Bball3345, JLew1122, NationInChicago, Ufgators, Xinoph
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 3+-
As far as the number of admins, its kinda beyond the scope of this...

You have to remember (bear with me) only Corey, Romi, Erooster and I (i believe) were voted via the system (which still isn't set in stone)...everyone else was in the "before times" where you just had to do a good job and ask...

I think its a bit unfair to ask them to reapply...and save a few blips on the radar, they've all done great jobs...
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
638 days ago
Score 1+-
I am a CPCP is now considered inactive... I think. He publicly declared that he isn't going to be on at all due to the fact that there have been too many trolls/wars/whatever...
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
638 days ago
Score 0+-
I can only hope that all the trolls out there take CS's post to heart.

Well said!

Is there any code of conduct for admins? I was under the impression that Xinoph was blocked indefinitely from the site.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 0+-
ok...lets not split hairs guys...sorry
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 1+-
he did comment after his retirement speech (who else does that?!)...
Permalink
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
638 days ago
Score 1+-
GET IT RIGHT, JUT!!!
Permalink
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
638 days ago
Score 0+-
Since you broke down the admins then that looks good to me. I'm sorry I wasn't implying this because I don't like certain admins. I have no problems with any of them. I was just people kept talking about the admins and I thought that you could eliminate all these problems if fewer existed. I think the major issue people have is with banning. The rest people are okay with. So, perhaps you should eliminate the number of admins who can ban people. I think everyone trusts and won't argue with the 6 high level admins.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 1+-
Lemme find that Jimmy Wales article, then I'll finish proving me point ; - )
Permalink
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
638 days ago
Score 1+-
I think it could be changed, but this argument is definitely beyond the CoC.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 0+-
I agree BJ...this CoC isn't about admins, its about what is expected of a user...ideally admins are impartial...and i've even added clauses such that involved admins may not ban users for said incidents... Plus, you guys are recruiting...so the place is getting busier (that's right...there's a reason there's so many more philly fans now ; - ) )
Permalink
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
638 days ago
Score 1+-
Funny how the Jimmy Wales wikipedia page doesn't mention anything about the Jimmy Wales scandal...
Permalink
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
638 days ago
Score 1+-
Alright! Two conversations at once!
Permalink
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
638 days ago
Score -5+-
Can't we all just resolve this by using commen sense. If a person is acting like a jack-off and an admin sees it have them send that person a PRIVATE message. A warning. If they do it again 24 hour ban. 3 strikes and you're out.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 6+-
Seriously frank...stop talking out your ass and read the damn thing...its in there...
Permalink
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
638 days ago
Score -3+-
Ju I'm sorry. I know it's in there. I'm just saying it feels like this is getting complicated. That's all.
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
638 days ago
Score 1+-
if admins get into a fight, only the founders can do anything, because admins have the power to unblock themselves. In order to block an admin effectively, you have to take away the admin powers, and then block them.

By my count, there are 8 (I think?) active admins:

  • Myself
  • Justin
  • The Beast
  • Alex
  • Erooster
  • BigPPup
  • Romiezzo
  • Davis
I think that's it right now as far as active ones go besides staff
Permalink
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
638 days ago
Score 1+-
The shark is still active? I haven't seen around in a long time...
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 0+-
i thought i saw him as recently as a month ago...i dunno...
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
638 days ago
Score 1+-
Back to point:

"7) Be a Mediator - You will see other disputes. Do your best not to stop them, but to ensure they remain focused and fair."

The overall message here needs to be clarified perhaps. The key word is "disputes". For some, "disputes" equals "trollism". For others, "disputes" means "spirited discussion".

That might need to be refined somewhat. A suggestive edit:

"7) Be a Mediator - You will read contrary opinions here at ArmchairGM. Animated and fact driven statements of opinion are welcome. However, we all need to be good team players mindful that differences in opinion should be respected. As a member, encourage others to stay thread focussed on the topic at hand without resorting to personal, inciteful attacks.

Does that work better?
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 1+-
I knew that would happen...and you're dead on...

The issue is, everyone should have "spirited discussions"...but not bickering...

So yeah, we'll fix that...
Permalink
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
638 days ago
Score 1+-
It's kind of a fine line there between a spirited discussion and a flame war. I like Tyrone's version that says as long as you stay within the topic it's fair game.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 0+-
yeah...there's also a part where you can control a discussion by telling the user you're uncomfortable...i know its not easy...but its the first option...

So yeah...but that's also where an admin's discretion comes in...I'm not saying every time should be a warning either...

I could send you a message BJ, saying, hey, you're getting rough, be careful...and that'd be it (hopefully) but if need be, its an official warning...
Permalink
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
638 days ago
Score 0+-
Yeah, there's certainly a difference between personal attacks and jokes with good intentions that may seem like a problem to an outsider. It needs to come down to the parties involved.
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
638 days ago
Score 2+-
Another point that might need to be addressed.

The terms "troll" and "flame".

These get thrown around here quite a bit as part of the admin lingo.

And perhaps, "troll", "trollism", "troll-{insert ending}" should be clarified for the benefit of newly registered user to the site.

My suggestion would be rephrase the final segment of the CoC.

Change from "What is a Personal Attack:"

to

"What is a Personal Attack, Troll Activities and Flame Related Misconduct"
Permalink | Reply
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
638 days ago
Score 1+-
I know "troll" and "flame" are briefly mentioned but I am suggesting further clarification.
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
638 days ago
Score 2+-
Looks like I missed a lot....
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 2+-
nope...

Please read the CoC and offer suggestions...

I'd like to give people an opportunity...
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
638 days ago
Score 1+-
A lot of good conversation developed here that should be helpful towards producing a final draft of a CoC. Read it over and share your thoughts. JuT and BigP worked hard on this document.
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
638 days ago
Score 1+-
I would also like to address the Anon situation. I think it is time that anons only have commenting (voting is a given) rights.

JuT just blocked an anon for creating a page that said "Mike Minter is really stupid". And almost all of the "articles" deleted are written by anons, ditto with spamming.

Some anons can make good comments....but obviously everything else is just to goof off clearly not knowing their IP address will be recorded.
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 0+-
That's a separate issue...i've also included a clause that allows admins to get rid of those issues quickly... but, just so you know, that issue of anon's abilities has been debated a lot..
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
638 days ago
Score 0+-
I understand that they had virtually the same rights as regular users, but noticing the anons following Leslie Monteiro in the past....eh....I think it should be reduced to commenting only.
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
638 days ago
Score 0+-
Perhaps wording on blocking issues needs to extend towards anons and not just registered users. Unless I'm mistaken, I see no references towards "anonymous fanatics" in this context. Perhaps it is necessary to include "anons already blocked indefinitely cannot register as a user to gain access to the site". I tell ya, those trolls are sometimes a little too clever.
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
638 days ago
Score 0+-
Good point, that would help as well.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 1+-
perhaps...but admins have the option of block acct creation as well during a block...

I also included this clause: Its a catch all

These rules do not apply to non-registered users, whose rights are at the discretion of the administrators.

If you're not registered though...then you didn't agree to this
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
638 days ago
Score 1+-
Now we need a lawyer for any loopholes. (Looks at Kelsdad, DNL)
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 0+-
i think its a non-binding agreement ; - )
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
638 days ago
Score 1+-
yeah, they don't get the ability to consent to this because they're not registered.
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
638 days ago
Score 1+-
Why would you be banned for at least a week on the third offense but for at least an hour on the next offense?
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 0+-
i just tried to cover all the bases with that...what if the 4th violation is seperate?
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
638 days ago
Score 0+-
.....DAMN YOU JuT!!!!


Sure.
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
638 days ago
Score 3+-
A few questions/observations:

JuT, when you said to me today "seriously rawb...no one likes you or your smug arrogant ass city...stop being such a tool..." was that a personal attack?

It seems like banning is the proverbial death sentence punishment in this policy. But what about users who are banned only to sign up with a new username, and possibly a new IP address? This policy does not affect him. I mean them. And these users tend to be the most troublesome. So what's the point?

Can there be some sort of a "tattle-tale" amendment to this policy? I like the idea of this site being self-policed, but at some point, you will get users telling on other users simply out of spite for the user, not actual offense to what the user said.

I don't think users should be encouraged to be mediators at all times. Certain things, like an argument that just crossed a line and can easily be pulled back, could use mediating. But other things, like the latest battle in a raging flame-war, would best be left alone.

This is an extension of the mediating thing. When a conflict has gone beyond the scope of an argument and is threatening to engulf the entire community, why not allow the two combatants to duke it out in some way. Can there be a "War Room" where two or more people involved in a conflict (and ONLY the people involved in the conflict) can exchange insults and just let loose on each other?

Will the term "fack" be considered profanity? I'm serious. Would it, or any other obvious pinch expletive (F*ck, @$$, sh!t, etc.) be considered profanity?

Can we make it possible to get rid of a user by popular demand? Let's just suppose there is a user that doesn't contribute anything positive, but hasn't broken any of the rules. By consent of the community, can he/she be banned? Maybe hold a vote, then let the admins decide whether or not to veto it. The offending party can then defend themselves, and representatives of the community can let it be known why they feel the person should be banned or allowed to stay.

And finally, good job with this so far. And good luck.
Permalink | Reply
False ProphetAll-Star
638 days ago
Score 0+-
community bans really should only be for those who flirt with the rules (basically, if someone breaks the spirit of the rules, but not the letter) over and over, then maybe...
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
638 days ago
Score 0+-
Pean is (say it quickly) the tech geek...perhaps he can find a way to prevent hidden proxies from making it here.
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
638 days ago
Score 0+-
Can we bring back challenges? Or set up a template for rock 'em sock 'em robots?
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 0+-
uh, thanks...yeah...you pissed me off with that comment...my fault, I apologize...

But, we also have a report...so its hard to say...I think it comes down to you saying either "Hey justin, you offended me" or hey "FP, tell justin he's going to far"

Good point about tattle-tales...anyone else have thoughts? I will say, there's a reason an uninvolved admin gets involved though.

That 2 person argument exists...or...did exist? - But it think that's a bad idea...what good could come out of it? But you're right about mediating in general, its tricky

Honestly, you can pretty much say any word on this site...generally "fuck" is not approved of (hence "fack")...but everything else has been let go...So i don't know...

And, i personally don't like that community idea...but..i mean, imagine that Lockerroom discussion...ugh
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
638 days ago
Score 1+-
And, i personally don't like that community idea...but..i mean, imagine that Lockerroom discussion...ugh How about setting up a template for that?
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 0+-
how about you set it up?
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 0+-
oh and FP, we got that: Appealing to (or claiming support from) the policy for some action or stance, which the user knows does not reflect the true intent and spirit of the policy, or Misrepresenting policy in a way which the user knows will harm ArmchairGM or its users will not be tolerated
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
638 days ago
Score 0+-
DAMN YOU JUT!!

Sure.


Wrong reply.....
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 0+-
I also received this comment privately, but I am keeping it anonymous as he requested:

Hey, I didn't want to talk about this one in the comments cause the rule had someones name attached to it (which may be a bad idea).

"If you would not submit your article and/or comments to a future employer, or to any other journalistic medium, then do not submit it here."

This is a little discouraging to those who don't think they write as well as a journalist. The intent to encourage excellent writing is on point, but that seems a little extreme. I guess I just think it should be toned down a little. to something like "remember, you work is a representation of you" or something a little more creative than that.
Permalink | Reply
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
638 days ago
Score 0+-
How about....

"If you would not read your proposed article to your wife/husband, kids or parents, then do not send it here"

Does that work?
Permalink
LASportsblogAAA-er
638 days ago
Score 0+-
People should be able to understand implied intent. If your dumb enough to take the corollary word for word at face value then you should be discouraged. Obvious implied intent: If you would be ashamed to show this to someone with your name on it, then don't put it out.
Permalink
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
638 days ago
Score 1+-
I think saying something like that is an excellent idea. Any way we can up the quality of the work is a good thing, because not only is every article a representation of the author, it's also a representation of AGM as a whole.
Permalink
Steel TownDraft Pick
637 days ago
Score 2+-
That was me. But, I have been told Kels is a big boy and he can handle the critisism. I understand what you are saying LA. But, on the other hand, I feel it is better to spell out what you mean instead of saying it should be understood properly by everyone. I imagine a similar conversation many moons ago.

Founding Father #1: If they don't know what a "well regulated militia" is, then I don't want them owning a gun anyways.

Founding Father #2: Yeah, that's what I thought.

200 years later...
Permalink
LASportsblogAAA-er
638 days ago
Score 1+-
I'm generally pleased with the CoC and the active suggestions given (for the most part). Nice work by all who contributed to the CoC, I'm laughing at the Kelsdad Corollary, properly titled.
Permalink | Reply
TylersaltAll-Star
638 days ago
Score 1+-
FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Permalink | Reply
BigPPupMajor Leaguer
638 days ago
Score 0+-
Some interesting banter here, but thats good I like what I am seeing.
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
638 days ago
Score 1+-
yeah, i wanna sift through it later...but i'll wait till everyone's had their shots... Plus, Trent Reznor just released a new album...so i've got that going for me...
Permalink
BigPPupMajor Leaguer
638 days ago
Score 0+-
No worries its been a long day, so take your time and we can look at it tomorrow. I need the rest.
Permalink
Yakob878MVP
638 days ago
Score 0+-
man, i can't believe i missed all of this good work Jut,BJ45 and others
Permalink | Reply
Tmil42AAA-er
638 days ago
Score 1+-
Hey, I won't be around much the next couple days, but I've spent some time going over this, and it looks like it's going to turn out really well.

Great job on it by everyone, especially JuT and the AGM Linebacker.

Could we perhaps add a provision where anyone who breaks the CoC gets a personal visit from the AGM Linebacker? Because that would be awesome.
Permalink | Reply
BigPPupMajor Leaguer
637 days ago
Score 1+-
We can send something up the chain, so that AGM covers my travel expenses and I could be knocking on your door someday soon.
Permalink
Niteowl049AAA-er
637 days ago
Score 3+-
Extremely well written Code of Conduct. I appreciate the time you both took to write it.
Permalink | Reply
Steel TownDraft Pick
637 days ago
Score 4+-
I think it's a shame that it had to come to this. One question. What would happen if say, JuT were to call Rawb a "tool". Although Rawb is often disagreed with by some users on here, he always seems to be able let such things roll off his back. Would something like that warrant any attention at all if Rawb doesn't make a complaint to an admin, or can an admin act without being alerted by the offended party?
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
637 days ago
Score 3+-
Well, lets extrapolate...

1) If I refer to someone using some type of racial slur, then clearly the reader (regardless of who its directed at) is offended...that's pretty cut and dry

2) I guess with regards to words of a much lesser degree its contingent on the read...once again, defer to the admins...either because a) Rawb thinks i'm going to far, b) the admin thinks its going to far or c) anotehr user thinks its going to far...

in all three of thoses cases, it would require an uninvolved admin's discretion...and odds are, at most, a verbal warning. Think about it...if it looks bad and you already have warnings, then odds are it probably is...
Permalink
BigPPupMajor Leaguer
637 days ago
Score 1+-
It was bound to happen that at some point AGM would need a document of this nature. It's not a knock on the community or anything like that, just aone of the growing pains that everyone goes through.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
637 days ago
Score 0+-
What if I just hate everyone? Is that cool?

Seriously - get rid of scout site except for admins and you'll drown out the trolls.

Think about it.

PEAN! PEAN! PEAN! PEAN! PEAN!!!
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
637 days ago
Score 3+-
BigP and JuT did a remarkable job on this document. And kudos to everyone else that provided positive contributions.
Permalink
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
637 days ago
Score 2+-
Hear hear for BigP and JuT. I don't even want to know how long this took and all the energy required but it's well done. And it's a job that I'm sure a lot of us wouldn't want to do ourselves. Thanks guys! It's appreciated! To all: To a new beginning! To a great new year! And to Armchairgm! The best sports site around!
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
637 days ago
Score 1+-
Kudos to Tyrone for cheering everyone on and providing the neccessary kudos to get this project underway.

Awesome job, Tyrone!

Don't worry, I'll thank myself on the way out!
Permalink
Steel TownDraft Pick
637 days ago
Score 0+-
Your right Pup. I guess it was bound to happen as AGM gets bigger. I've only been here a short while so I really don't know a Trolless AGM. I hope we don't eventually have to get like other sites and start limiting comments and who can contribute and what not. I really like how this site lets everyone "play". If the CoC can be followed, it will continue to be heads and tails above the competition.
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
637 days ago
Score 1+-
Plus I am a tool.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
637 days ago
Score 1+-
I'd like to leave this thing open for a few more days...some users only come by periodically, and they are equal members...I want as much input as possible before a final draft is presented...
Permalink | Reply
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
637 days ago
Score 1+-
Good idea. Just wondering if the founders have read the proposed draft yet?
Permalink
BigPPupMajor Leaguer
637 days ago
Score 1+-
The founders are fully aware of this document, and they will get a copy of the completed draft once it done.
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
637 days ago
Score 0+-
Who gets to carry the stone tablets up the mountain for their review? ;) {couldn't resist}
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
637 days ago
Score 3+-
15....10 commandments!
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Captain SarcasticWaterboy
637 days ago
Score 4+-
I only come by, periodically. I wonder, if all these jerks commenting, have read the proposed draft yet themselves? they don' t seem to get it through there thick skulls. Stop acting liek, and treating each other like, jerks!
Permalink | Reply
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
637 days ago
Score -3+-
I'm with you on that one Captain. I've read it 3 times. Treat others like you'd like to be treated. If you have nothing nice to say than don't say it at all. Would you say that to your grandmother or mother? What if your 10 year old daughter read some of the stuff posted here?
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KelsdadAll-Star
637 days ago
Score 2+-
Would you, Frank?
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Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
637 days ago
Score -1+-
Would I what? I've changed. I'm turning over a new leaf. Did that with my shoulder growth plate article.
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KelsdadAll-Star
637 days ago
Score 1+-
I've been here just over a year and this is like the fourth or fifth attempt at a code of conduct, so pardon my skepticism. I'll believe it when I see it
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Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
637 days ago
Score 1+-
Ouch. That's not very nice considering these guys spent all day yesterday on this. I think they deserve a lot of credit.
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JuTMSY4Legend
637 days ago
Score 1+-
that's fine...actually that's not true though

Other's tried an honor code - you worked on some of it KD...

This is a code of conduct...and i believe the goal is not simply something users agree to adhere to, but is part the sign up process...
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Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
637 days ago
Score 2+-
Admin on aisle: To my new friend Yakob.
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JuTMSY4Legend
637 days ago
Score 1+-
the other thing i'd like to do...and this might be an administrative mess, is insure that each user (currently) agrees to it as well... We'll vote soon (next week)...but some people may not vote at all or dissent (my goal is 0 dissenters, as we've provided this forum to handle that)...i want these users to understand that they must abide by it as well...
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BigPPupMajor Leaguer
637 days ago
Score 1+-
Ah geez that is one hell of an administrative commitment.
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JuTMSY4Legend
637 days ago
Score 0+-
kinda a problem...i'll talk about it then....But maybe since dan has everyone as a friend, he can just boardblast them all and call it a day...
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BigPPupMajor Leaguer
637 days ago
Score 0+-
Well theres the problem of how long is the vote open, how do you tabulate the vote. I have some ideas actualy using some resources from here at work. I can talk with you and DNL about it and see what we come up with.
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Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
637 days ago
Score -1+-
I'm still fuzzy on why we allow anon posts? For reasons of what is currently going on right now on the article: to my new friend yakob. Why not make this register?
Permalink | Reply
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
637 days ago
Score -1+-
Sorry: "Them" register.
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JuTMSY4Legend
637 days ago
Score 0+-
I'm impartial too it, but the founders (well, dan i know for sure) doesn't want to limit people...i think because it'll limit growth...i tend to agree...
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Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
637 days ago
Score -1+-
Why would people not comment on here if they have to register a user name? Look at the comments being left as we speak. We don't need that. All I'm saying is that it feels like 90% of the anon comments are extremely in bad taste. If people want to post they will register if need be.
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KelsdadAll-Star
637 days ago
Score 1+-
It all goes to interpretation. When I worked for Marriott, their employee policy was called the "Code of Conduct". When I worked for Morgan Stanley, theirs was called "Honor Code".

They are all one in the same. But the point here isn't having one, it's enforcement.

There are trollers and flamers here. They have been warned. They should be gone. Period.
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JuTMSY4Legend
637 days ago
Score 0+-
yeah, i'm sorry...i wasn't clear about that...

The honor code was something users agreed to...the code of conduct is users must adhere to...

that being said, the old honor code was not enforceable...the goal in this one is to not only have some ground rules...but ramifications...
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Falcon02520Legend
637 days ago
Score 3+-
Honestly, I did not read this. I mean, it seems like you guys did a good job, and obviously a lot of work went into this, but like Kelsdad said above, "The point here isn't having one, it's enforcement." btw, if I break one of these rules or whatever, just tell me what I did wrong before I get banned because I was never good at reading the manual...
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JuTMSY4Legend
637 days ago
Score 1+-
Well...the code is only designed to stop users with malicious intents...and registered users will have plenty of warning...at least i believe so...
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
636 days ago
Score 0+-
plus, my goal was to keep any rogue admins from being too powerful...hence the approvals for over 24 hours...
Permalink
EroosterMajor Leaguer
637 days ago
Score 2+-
Great job guys! JuT, you know my stance on some of the negative users.
Permalink | Reply
Steel TownDraft Pick
636 days ago
Score 4+-
I have a suggestion. Can we make a ban on proposing bans publicly. I think that always adds fuel to a fire here. Make a rule that says you cant threaten to ban or even suggest a ban on a public thread. Keep those types of comments in private threads only.
Permalink | Reply
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
636 days ago
Score 1+-
Ban demanding bans? Sounds good.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
636 days ago
Score 1+-
yeah, i don't wanna see that...
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Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
636 days ago
Score 3+-
I think we should ban suggesting a ban on those proposing bans. That means YOU, Steel Town!
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JuTMSY4Legend
636 days ago
Score 1+-
err...no one should be publically demanding a ban...

this is also the reason i don't think we should have any type of public trial...i really don't see the value in that other than allowing/making flames...

I'm not opposed, just letting you guys know there will be some distrinct ramifications...
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False ProphetAll-Star
636 days ago
Score 2+-
unfortunately bobbyjim, I think you're guilty of the same thing by calling him out publicly. It's a paradox that cannot end unless someone chooses not to respod
Permalink
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
636 days ago
Score 3+-
I just want you guys to ban anon comments. I still say making them register weeds out the idiots who post (like last night on the To my friend Yakob article). If they are serious users and wish to contribute here they will register. I did. And look at all the love and joy I've brought to this site! :)
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
636 days ago
Score 0+-
way to ruin it ; - )
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JuTMSY4Legend
636 days ago
Score 0+-
frank, why to you message dan, pean, rob and aaron...they are decision makers over that...anyone else has 0 power unless the founders would like to decide via referendum...
Permalink
Steel TownDraft Pick
636 days ago
Score 1+-
Wow, that's my favorite comment yet (even though it's a rerun), I got my point across to JuT and someone picked up on my poor sense of humor (thanks Bobby).
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
636 days ago
Score 0+-
I like the way you think about the Anons, Frank. But honestly, many people might not be interested in signing up because they just don't feel like it, or maybe because they feel that they won't be on it ever again. Anon comments sometimes cause good debates in sports. The more different opinons we have, the more conversation we have, which is definitely a good thing.
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
636 days ago
Score 0+-
fack, third times the charm:
09:04, 7 March 2008 False Prophet (Talk | contribs | block) blocked "Bobbyjim45 (contribs)" with an expiry time of .000001 seconds (anonymous users only, account creation disabled) (proposing bans on proposing bans lol)
09:03, 7 March 2008 False Prophet (Talk | contribs | block) blocked "False Prophet (contribs)" with an expiry time of .000001 seconds (anonymous users only, account creation disabled) (proposing bans on proposing bans on proposing bans lol)
09:03, 7 March 2008 False Prophet (Talk | contribs | block) blocked "Steel Town (contribs)" with an expiry time of .000001 seconds (anonymous users only, noautoblock) (proposing bans lol)
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
636 days ago
Score 0+-
sorry...not a comment admin...
Permalink
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
636 days ago
Score 2+-
I thought someone told me that all the admins have never been banned and that's why Tyrone can't be one?
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Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
636 days ago
Score 1+-
Finally... it took you guys long enough to ban me. I've had it coming :)
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
636 days ago
Score 1+-
I thought you were, Justin. I think Alex is, but he's never online during the day here (stupid england <insert emocation here>) Frank, this ban is not serious, hence it not even totalling a second. Tyrone was blocked for real shortly before applying for being an admin
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
636 days ago
Score 0+-
yeah, they weren't banned for realsies!
Permalink
EroosterMajor Leaguer
636 days ago
Score 1+-
I got you FP, I am a commentadmin.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
636 days ago
Score 1+-
Let's just get one thing set on the record: No one on AGM should do anything to make another AGMer angry or hurt or stupid. This means no idiotic, useless, or degrading comments, no suggesting bans publicly (thanks for that Steel Town), etc. In other words, don't do anything that an admin (who is considered an AGM role model here) wouldn't do.
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
636 days ago
Score 1+-
after talking to kelsdad...i think he'd prefer your idea ; - ) That's the point romi...but in my professional experience, sometimes you gotta cover all the bases...
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
636 days ago
Score 1+-
Yeah, I agree with you there, Jut. You have to cover all the bases to people in order for them to understand where they're coming from. Maybe we should write something in the code talking a little about what has happened here at AGM and why we have set these rules.


OR

We could have them agree to the terms of the code in order for them to sign up...

(Just an idea)
Permalink
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
636 days ago
Score 2+-
I just hope that people understand the difference between debating a point vs arguing or degrading someone. Debating is great! Discussion is great! Opposing views are great! I've never understood some peoples points on this. For example if I write an article that brings up a controversal debate and I respond back to peoples comments that isn't "trolling".
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
636 days ago
Score 1+-
Romi: I think that's the goal... Frank: Yeah, that will be an issue...i mean any one of us could have a heated debate...I'll use race because the moment of crossing the line can be easily and distinctly presented...that is to say...you and I argue about race in sports and I call you a name (the "N" word)...that would merit at least a warning...
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
636 days ago
Score 1+-
You can ask Rawb or Corey. They've been in situations where they defend their favorite players/teams. It's all good. It's just that I'm sure AGM doesn't want name calling or anything like that. That crosses the line.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
636 days ago
Score 0+-
It also takes common sense...once again...major bans take more than one admin...so any issue like that will require multiple sets of eyes...
Permalink
Steel TownDraft Pick
636 days ago
Score 0+-
"You can ask Rawb or Corey. They've been in situations where they defend their favorite players/teams." This is something I was getting at before up above. I feel like action shouldn't be taken unless someone alerts an admin that they have been offended. I find it funny when a good debate makes JuT loose his composure and call someone a tool. so long as the other guy isn't mad and doesn't want to take action it should be left alone. I know that leaves a lot of gray area, but it's only fair that those who can play within the spirit of the rules and not be forced to follow the letter of the law get to keep playing.
Permalink
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
636 days ago
Score -2+-
Yeah well Pittsburg SUCKS Steel Town. And so did Mario :)

What do you think about that? :)

And Jagr needs a hair cut! :)
Permalink
Steel TownDraft Pick
636 days ago
Score 0+-
Pittsburgh, PA added an "h" at the end around 1900 I think. That separates us from the Pittsburg you are refering too.
Permalink
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
636 days ago
Score -1+-
:) :) :) :) I need a drink!
Permalink
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