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A Sincere Thought Concerning "Negative" Comment Feedback

Posted by Tyrone Briggs
895 days ago



0218math.jpg


I have always thought it rather peculiar about ArmchairGM's +/- system for grading comments on posted articles and columns. Opinions, no matter how controversial or unpopular, tend to derive a "-" rating for simply being such. Why? And furthermore, where is the fairness in a system that allows these ratings to be anonymously posted without any reasoning or explanation? Personally, this seems to promote trolling activity and other attached problems already expressed more eloquently and detailed by other posters.

As a regular posting member to this community, I suggest that only "+" feedback be recorded. Or rather if "-" are deemed necessary by the admins, that the "-" evaluator be identified along with an explanation for its purpose. A rash of "-" without explanation promotes hostility but even worse most likely discourages new members from posting comments simply out of intimidation to express an opinion that may run contrary to the majority. That should not be an issue at an open forum for expression of free thought such as the 'Chair.

It was suggested somewhere on this forum that "-" be calculated as a statistic for each username. However, it would seem that the real benefit of such a tabulation actually calculate the number of "-" judgements for each member on other members instead.

I have taken to heart the concerns of several fellow members here at ArmchairGM who do actually work hard, contribute posts and build the encyclopedia. By no means has my past conduct here been saintly nor would I blame more than a few out there for finding this discussion rather trite considering its author. I shall attempt to turn over a new leaf. However, an intelligent discussion on this topic as one measure to reducing trolling inciteful behavior here at the website might be of benefit. My concerns on this issue are not for my self-benefit but rather to help expand the membership of this sporting blog community.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Thanks for taking the time to read this post.

Sincerely,

Tyrone Briggs Chicago, IL



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Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
895 days ago
Score 4+-
Well, minuses are ignored on the User Statistics. I.e. the scoring. Minuses were once used in the calculation, but it got bad abused, so was removed from the calculation. The minus is needed though. It's our way of rebutting a comment that says "Soccer stinks" or some other unreasoned comment. Or spam. Rather than resorting to the type of Myspace/YouTube style rudeness.
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JoshkrossDraft Pick
895 days ago
Score 2+-
WHy not add a button that says "Spam/Trolling" and if it hits a certain number, it gets nuked.
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
895 days ago
Score 1+-
Thanks for responding Alex. I appreciate it. Is it not possible to automate the system that forces a "-" grader to respond with a reason?
Permalink
Patrickburke1980All-American
895 days ago
Score 2+-
excellent idea kross... would love to see that implemented.
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
895 days ago
Score 2+-
Mind you, I find the fact that I can't "-" an article frustrating, but I think you have a pretty decent point. I would suggest perhaps a "garbage" or "troll" button instead, that if enough people clicked it, a post would get nuked. Minuses have benefits, but in the grand scheme, I think you're spot on. A post staying at 0 should be feedback enough. An alternative would be to display pluses and minuses separately.
Permalink | Reply
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
895 days ago
Score 3+-
Again, they once were separate. I like the idea. The thing is "-" comments are I supposed used for badly thought comments, or comments that miss the point, or rude comments etc. Keep the minus!
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
895 days ago
Score 1+-
Good alternative idea Josh. IMO - some people here tend to automatically assess a "-" based upon the commenter rather than the actual comment itself. That seems to increase trolling activity.
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JoshkrossDraft Pick
895 days ago
Score 1+-
I definitely think it increases trolling. Think of just not voting as a negative. More of a +/"not +" duality. Staying at 0 means no one really thought your post was worth reading.
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
895 days ago
Score 1+-
I agree there with Josh. I think a "0" equally reflects any number of accumulated "-" without aggravating troll-like behavior.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
895 days ago
Score 3+-
Definitely hit this one, TB. Minus a comment because you don't agree, don't minus because you don't like the author.
Permalink | Reply
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
895 days ago
Score 2+-
Thanks for responding Kelsdad. An observation of mine lately is the habit of others recording a "-" to a poster simply because of: A. who that poster is, B. because of an allegiance to a team, or C. a difference of an opinion. In all 3 scenarios, I really don't understand the logic of the "-" feedback. For instance (and I am just making an example, not reflecting on anyone specific) but where is the value of a "Red Sox" fan providing a "-" to a "Yankee" fan for simply making a point about their baseball team simply because of a rivalry? And from what I am gathering from others here, that is not the intention in the first place. Does not a "0" do just the same as a bunch of "-" scores anyways?
Permalink
JamelAll-American
895 days ago
Score -1+-
Tyrone- who gives a crap about minus or plus or if someone calls you a douchebag or a loser or if I post half naked pictures of girls or if doubledee is really you or Manny or me or you are me or if I am you or if Clayton is an Esquire or if Ju is a jew or if Alex likes my articles or not or if Manny is gay? WHO CARES??!!!

Seriously this community at armchair cries and whines like they are french! No one here can take a joke, no one here has any sense of humor, most of everyone feels the need to comment on everything, most of everyone takes everything WAY TOO SERIOUSLY!! If you don't like a poster don't write to them, if you don't like an article don't comment, if you don't like a comment ignore it. Why is this so complicated? Why does this need to be discussed? Who cares if I heard of this blog because of jaythejoke? Who cares who cares who cares whoe cares? God I can't wait until football starts! Go Bears!

lingerie_bowl13.jpg
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
895 days ago
Score 2+-
I agree that some posters here are far too overtly serious about a sports blog but that really was not the point I was trying to make concerning the feedback system. The community here has expressed concern of trolling behavior. I believe this particular feedback grading system contributes to part of the problem, have offered my two cents and asked what others thought on the subject. Thanks for the hot pic however. The NHL should run that type of event during intermission. It would boost ratings significantly and probably get the sport back onto a network that everyone can access.
Permalink
JamelAll-American
895 days ago
Score -2+-
BULLCRAP!!! The only "trolling" they are talking about concerns ME!!! They bitch and moan about me and people who come from jay the joke. NO ONE TROLLS HERE!!! The problem here is that people for some strange reason can't control the urge to COMMENT back on something they don't like.

Now....... I love debating. I think people should argue back and forth about topics they may disagree on- I also love to make a little fun of people- however, the problem that arises here is that certain people stick their foot in their mouths get called on it and then start the name calling game If everyone did what I do- drink a beer, smoke a joint, relax, and then post- Here's another pic for you

MOD-210818_LingerieBowlIII-PressPhoto.jpg
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
895 days ago
Score 2+-
Actually Jamel, I've observed this "-" anonymous feedback on matters unrelated to your posts. And judging by the comments left here from posters that have more miles on the ArmchairGM odometer than either you or I, it seems to be a problem that has been here for awhile now.
Permalink
JamelAll-American
895 days ago
Score 2+-
What now?? I'm sorry I have better things to do than worry about if someone gives me a minus. Like this picture? 3146923.jpg
Permalink
Patrickburke1980All-American
895 days ago
Score 4+-
Tyrone - it's great to see stuff like this from you. I've had some harsh words for you, but you can be a great contributor when you want to be. Keep up the good work.
Permalink | Reply
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
895 days ago
Score 4+-
No problem. It is understandable based upon prior experience. Let's look forward ahead and move on.
Permalink
Patrickburke1980All-American
895 days ago
Score 2+-
Tyrone - glad to see you taking these steps. You can be a tremendous contributor when you want to be. I know I've had some harsh words for you, but I like what I'm seeing...keep up the good work!!
Permalink | Reply
Patrickburke1980All-American
895 days ago
Score 1+-
crap, didn't realize my first comment went through.
Permalink
JamelAll-American
895 days ago
Score 0+-
What's so great about bitching and moaning about a useless feature? What is this an AA meeting? "Let's look forward ahead and move on"- what is this?

"Tyrone- glad to see you taking these steps"- this is stupid- as soon as Manny shows up and responds to something Tyrone writes all hell will break lose again and a "You're a fraud", "No you are a fraud", "I hate you", "No I hate you" debate will begin. But hey, I don't want to be all negative so "KEEP UP THE GOODWORK TYRONE, THE FIRST DAY IS ALWAYS THE HARDEST BUT JUST TAKE IT DAY BY DAY-- SOON IT WILL BE A WEEK, THEN A MONTH, THEN A YEAR-- CALL ME ANYTIME IF YOU NEED ANY MORAL SUPPORT- I AM HERE FOR YOU- GOD BLESS"

http://www.v.../02/Lingerie Bowl 4.jpg
Permalink | Reply
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
895 days ago
Score 4+-
Nah, I'm done with the mudslinging.
Permalink
Patrickburke1980All-American
895 days ago
Score 3+-
Jamel - these messageboards are an extended form of conversation. No one wants to talk to or be associated with an asshole in real life. The same goes here. So, when someone says something offensive or brings down the rest of the conversation, the "-s" are the community's way of saying 'fuck off, you are adding nothing to this conversation and just pissing people off who are trying to have a normal discussion'.
Permalink
EkomVarsity
895 days ago
Score 3+-
yeah, you minusing minushead!!! Go minus yourself!!! (from now on, 'minus' is my new word for 'fuck')
Permalink
Patrickburke1980All-American
895 days ago
Score 3+-
Bucky "-" Dent? Aaron "-" Boone?
Permalink
EkomVarsity
895 days ago
Score 3+-
I think it's funnier if you spell it out...

Aaron Minusin' Boone - see? ...or how about -

Bucky "M-ing" Dent if you want to censor you use of the minus?
Permalink
Patrickburke1980All-American
895 days ago
Score 5+-
"-" you Manny "-"ing Stiles. "-"ing jerk.
Permalink
EkomVarsity
895 days ago
Score 2+-
Yes! Exactly! Jeez, what the minus did I do? Gives a new meaning to "I didn't minus you! I accidentally hit the minus button", eh?
Permalink
Taytay 24All-American
895 days ago
Score 4+-
Tyrone, please correct me if I am wrong, but aren't you one of the prime offenders of this? I realize you are on the receiving end, too--seems I spend half my time here trying to undo pointless minuses on both sides--but it goes both ways.

Take the problem on step further, though. If the namecalling stops, the minuses will, too. As you acknowledge in the article, you don't have the best rep here. But as others have said in the comments, you can be a great contributor when you choose to be.

My observation on a recent article: You played nice early. Unfortunately, you still received a couple minuses, based on rep, and that was wrong. But then you got pissed about it, started calling names and so on, and got a lot of minuses, all earned.

You have said before you don't care about minuses, but your actions show that you clearly do. I think you are going to have to ignore it for a bit and get past it.

This is not to say that I don't think some of the ideas above have merit. I just think the minus issue is only a symptom of the real issue.
Permalink | Reply
JoshkrossDraft Pick
895 days ago
Score 2+-
I think the fact he was part of it was part of his point. I think the minuses are a bigger issue than you think, if only because so much time is spent by a lot of people asking or complaining about them.
Permalink
Taytay 24All-American
895 days ago
Score 2+-
Josh, as I said, I agree it is a problem, I just think we would do well to look at what is causing the minuses, too. I've got a cough right now and have been sucking down cough drops like candy, but it's time I go to the doctor and get the real problem taken care of.
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
895 days ago
Score 3+-
This issue with the comment rating system is far more reaching than the actions of one or two frequent posters. And it is more significant than any situation specifically relating to myself. In general, my comments and suggestions here are reflective upon anonymous posters simply applying a "-" for trivial assumptions such as a team rivalry (ie. Red Sox vs Yankees) or because of the unpopular identity of the poster regardless of what is actually said. That hardly seems to be contributory towards building a sports community. And yes, I do acknowledge that my credibility on this situation is in likelihood suspect and that is not without warrant. However, I do respect the work put forth by several of the admins along with DNL which includes attracting new members to the website. And I would much rather be a contributory positive factor here than a negative influence which discourages others from participating or quitting all together. For those that are skeptic on these intentions, I don't blame you. Anyways, I think of said all that I can say on the subject and am willing to let "the case rest" with those who govern the website.
Permalink
EkomVarsity
895 days ago
Score 5+-
I'll be honest, I have ALWAYS minused people whenever they bitched about being minused, mostly because I think it's hilarious to do that! But I also hand out a TON of +'s... even some undeservedly so. I like to +!!!

I also agree with Alex's "keep the minus" campaign but I want to one up him and say "add minuses to articles"!!! Some of them deserve negative tallies!

As I said long ago -'s cause cancer...

Also, Jamel is right... there are a few things worth worrying about more than -'s, but I'm all about looking to and moving towards the future!
Permalink | Reply
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
895 days ago
Score 2+-
I only suggest to the admins that if "-" feedback are to exist, that an explanation from the grader be provided. I think it would add to the website's legitimacy for peer evaluation.
Permalink
EkomVarsity
895 days ago
Score 4+-
is 'cause I felt like being a World Class Prick' an acceptable repsonse? I'll just copy it now so I can paste it later...
Permalink
PeanMajor Leaguer
894 days ago
Score 5+-
The plus / minus feature (later morphing into thumbs up / down) has been here since day 1. AFs even had the ability to do it -- we quickly realized that mistake (along with counting how many minuses you got in the user rankings). Anyway, I think the initial goal was for a way to suppress the spam/flaming/what have you -- but its tough because stuff gets voted down for different reasons, and good comments would get hidden. So, we never really created a way to suppress comments based on negatives, so that just leaves the nice little score in the comment box. While I could care less what my comments get (they are usually nonsense / non sport related anyway), some people obviously have a problem with them. So where does that leave us? Basically its up to you guys. Should we just nix out the thumb down? Expose how many negs someone gives out?
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
894 days ago
Score 2+-
Personally, I am interested in learning from you if it is possible to force a "-"er to identify themselves by having to write a reason. And definitely I think it is worth exploring who doles out the most "-" feedback.
Permalink
EkomVarsity
894 days ago
Score 0+-
Yeah, there's times I say stuff on purpose that I know will get minused JUST to be a smart ass... "Why talk Cubs when we can talk about REAL baseball/Every Yankee fan born after 1920 is a bandwagon jumper/*yawn*/etc." Hey Pean, I bet I know who has given out the most +'s!!!
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PeanMajor Leaguer
894 days ago
Score 2+-
i think it would be possible, but unfortunately not something that we have time to do in the near future. As for the most "-". There was the infamous "Comment Bandit" back in the day (Wtt2005 or something) who followed a few users around and went back and minuses every single one of their comments..like thousands...guy was a winner
Permalink
EkomVarsity
894 days ago
Score 0+-
no, it's not me, it's Manny Stiles! But I can catch him!
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
894 days ago
Score 1+-
leave it how it is. It balances out eventually.
Permalink
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Categories: Lockerroom | Lockerroom by User Tyrone Briggs | July 5, 2007 | ArmchairGM lockerroom

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