armchairgm
all sports, all you
+ Add Friends
You are not logged-in.
Sign Up - Log In
Main Page
Sports
Write
Articles
Hot Links
Images
Meet People
Fun
Explore
MLB - NFL - NBA - NHL - College Basketball - College Football - Soccer - Nascar - Other
Article - Locker Room Discussion
All Articles - New Articles - Today's Articles
Submit a Link - Approve Links
Picture Game - Ratings - Polls - Pick Game - Quiz Game - Spring Silliness
Random Page - Random Image - Random Fan
Edit
Page history Discuss pageWhat links here

Kobe is By Far the MVP

15
Vote

by user The Beast

He has won three NBA championships, been All-Star Game MVP twice, scored 81 points in one game, won two scoring titles, and has scoring over 50 points in four consecutive games. So how can any player with this impressive resume, not win an MVP. Maybe it’s because Phil Jackson is right, the NBA and everybody hates him. For whatever reason, most Hoops fans east of California all seem to despise Kobe in one way or another. On addition, the NBA clearly has moved past the notion that Kobe is not the next Jordan and the LeBron is, despite Kobe being a better all-around player. Whether people like him or not, it is clear he is deserving of the league’s Most Valuable Player.

The league’s two most prominent MVP candidates are Dirk Nowitzki and Steve Nash. Dirk Nowitzki has lead the Dallas Mavericks to an NBA best 56-11 record. The seven foot German is averaging 37.0 minutes, 25.2 points, 9.6 rebounds, and 3.5 assists. Reigning MVP Steve Nash leads the most exciting offensive attack in the league and the Suns hold a 52-16 record. The two-time MVP is averaging 35.4 minutes, 19.1 points, 3.5 rebounds, and 11.6 assists.

Despite leading a team with just five games over .500, Kobe is clearly the league’s MVP. By definition, MVP stands for Most Valuable Player. Kobe is clearly has more valuable to his team than either Nash or Nowitzki. Take away Kobe from the Lakers, and LA is in the Greg Oden sweapstakes. A few nights ago Kobe Bryant beat the Memphis Grizziles. The Lakers didn't beat the Grizzlies, Kobe did. He scored 60 points in just over 45 minutes, while the rest of the Lakers managed to score just 61.

Do you think that if Dirk or Nash was absent for the entire season that Dallas or Phoenix would miss the playoffs? Of course not! Both teams are composed of multiple All-Stars. Dallas has Josh Howard, who became an All-Star this year, Jason Terry, Devin Harris, Erick Dampier, and Jerry Stackhouse. I think that is a lineup that could sneak into the playoffs without Dirk. Phoenix could even contend for a title without Nash. Leandro Barbosa is an excellent backup for Nash and he could still be a poor man’s version of Steve Nash. The Suns are also stacked with a lineup that includes All-Stars Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudamire. No Laker, besides Kobe, has EVER appeared in an All-Star Game. The amount of talent that Kobe works with is far more inferior to the kind of talent that Pheonix and Dallas have on their rosters.

Picture this, as Steve Nash drives the lane he could throw it up to Amare Stoudamire. On the other hand as Kobe drives the lane he can throw it up to Kwame Brown. See the difference. Maybe Kobe could average more assists with a player who isn’t missing a pair of hands.

Others feel the MVP is about being the best all-around player or the most outstanding. Again Kobe is that guy. He has far better stats than Nash and Nowitzki. Kobe is averaging 30.5 points, 5.7 rebounds, and 5.5 assists while playing over forty minutes a night. In addition he has scored over fifty points in four consecutive games. With his ability to be a playmaker, three point shooting, and driving ability, Kobe is clearly an all-around offensive threat. What separates him further from Nash and Nowitzki is his defensive ability. He has appeared on the NBA’s All-Defensive team six times. On the other hand, Nash and Nowitzki have a combined ZERO appearances. In addition to carrying the offensive burden, Kobe is also assigned to guarding the other team’s best player. If the Lakers play Cleveland, Kobe would guard LeBron, Nash would guard Eric Snow, and Dirk would guard Drew Gooden.

Like it or not Kobe Bryant is the best all-around player in the NBA and is by far most valuable to his team.

http://socalsportsblog.wordpress.com/2007/03/24/kobe-is-by-far-the-mvp/



Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
Davis21wylieMVP
981 days ago
Score 2+-
I like to look at 82 Games' stats to see who is truly most valuable. They track every player's plus-minus when they're on the court and on the bench, to see which players make the team play best. When Nash is on the court, Phoenix outscores its opponents by 11.8 points/48 minutes; when he's riding the pine, PHX gets outscored by 2.7 pts/48 -- his net value to Phoenix is 11.8 - (-2.7) = +14.4 points per 48 minutes. Likewise, with Dirk on the floor, Dallas wins by 11.5 pts/48; when he's off, they lose by 2.7 -- a net of +14.3 pts/48. When Kobe is on the floor, LA wins by 1.9 pts/48; when he isn't playing, they lose by 6.8 pts/48 -- a net of +8.7. As you can see, Kobe is very important to L.A. (without him, they'd project to win only 23 games over a full season, based on that -6.8 point differential when he's off the floor), but the difference between Nash/Nowitzki's teams' on/off performance is even more striking. The bottom line is that, according to the numbers, Nash and Nowitzki are more important to their teams than Kobe is to L.A.
Permalink | Reply
TylersaltAll-Star
981 days ago
Score 1+-
Image:Jamesbobbleheadsmall.jpg This user is a Stats Geek.
Permalink
Davis21wylieMVP
981 days ago
Score 1+-
If you like that, you should see these stats! By win shares, Kobe is the third-most-valuable player in the league, behind Dirk and LeBron -- and I don't think WS properly captures Kobe's defensive value. So it's a rich tapestry as to who the best player is. I just think +/- tells us who means the most to their team in every facet of the game (offense, defense, rebounding, etc.).
Permalink
TylersaltAll-Star
981 days ago
Score 1+-
Again, this all comes down to the definition of MVP. Look at how bad the Suns were without Nash earlier this season. They wouldn't be nearly as dominant as they are without him on the court. He makes everyone on the court better, something that Kobe can't hope to accomplish. AND he plays the hardest position on the floor (PG) better than anyone else in the league. Steve Nash is my MVP. Skinny Canadian white basketball players forever!
Permalink | Reply
Davis21wylieMVP
981 days ago
Score 2+-
I would argue that Kobe can make his teammates better as well -- by consuming so many possessions himself (he ends 31.6% of L.A.'s possessions while he's on the court), he commands so much defensive attention that it gives Bynum, Walton, Odom, etc. easier opportunites.
Permalink
Davis21wylieMVP
981 days ago
Score 1+-
...But that ability is reflected in Kobe's +/-, which isn't as good as Tim Duncan's, Kevin Garnett's, Gilbert Arenas', Nash's, or Dirk's. I like plus/minus because it captures everything a player does -- from the high-profile things like scoring, to the "intangibles" like setting picks, or leadership. Basically, if you do something right (or wrong) on the floor, at either end, plus/minus will pick up on it.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
981 days ago
Score 2+-
Davis is right, the value of a player is best measured when he is NOT playing. The key to the Lakers' resurgence is Lamar Odom and Luke Walton being healthy, not ball hog scoring 50. Steve Nash is two time defending MVP and is no where close to being the best player in the league, but he is the Most Valuable to his team. If Kobe passed more, and played a better all round game, the Lakers would have a better record. I've said this many times before, Kobe already has his rings, all he wants now is to be Michael. He could care less whether the Lakers win or not.
Permalink | Reply
Bobman024JV Squad
981 days ago
Score 2+-
There is no doubt that Kobe is very valuable to LA and that if he was not on the team, they would be at the bottom of the barrel. But both Nash and Dirk also elevate their team's play. Stats don't tell the whole picture, but without Nash, the Suns actually have a losing record. I don't believe that the MVP has to go to the best player, or the team with the best record, but Nash ELEVATES the play of everyone around him. So does Dirk. Kobe who?
Permalink
The BeastAAA-er
981 days ago
Score 0+-
Kobe is averaging a career high in assists this year. In fact, he is actually shooting a higher percentage and has taken fewer shots than in years past. Unlike Nash, Kobe gets to feed it into Kwame Brown and Brian Cook. Nash has better scoring options around him than does Kobe. Many of Kobe's potential assists are not converted into points because the players around him aren't that good. Kobe may make a similar play to Nash, but his teamates don't convert the play.
Permalink
The BeastAAA-er
981 days ago
Score 0+-
Kelsdad have you watched the Kobe play at all this week? He isn'tb all hogging his shooting percentage is .545 over this past week. FOr the season it is .467. Not too bad. If he can score over 50 while still shooting above 50% percent than what is the problem.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
981 days ago
Score 0+-
... this week.

IF the Lakers make the playoffs, how far will Kobe's one-man-show take them? Can you say "one and dun" (AGAIN)

I hope they get the 7th seed, so the Suns can sweep them en route to "Three Time" getting his first shiny-shine trophy
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
981 days ago
Score 0+-
first off, Kobe's assists AREN'T "dishing off" or "ceating a play", it's mostly passing out of double and triple teams (on the rare occasions that he actually does). And as such the scorer Kobe is, SHOULDN'T SOMEONE on his team be getting assists TO him???
Permalink
ChristofMVP
981 days ago
Score -2+-
Kobe is having the best year of any player in the NBA. For better or for worse, he deserves the MVP.
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
981 days ago
Score 3+-
The Beast has fallen on his head and suffered brain damage... (and will be changing his mind in a few weeks... when he pays on our challenge)
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
981 days ago
Score 1+-
Shave Nest = MV3
Permalink
Anonymous Fanatic #1
981 days ago
Score -1+-
Its not shooting percentage Beast, its shots attempted. And what is his assist average, 5? I'm not impressed.
Permalink | Reply
The BeastAAA-er
981 days ago
Score 0+-
So what is wrong with shooting a lot if you are making most of them. If he has the hot hand then he can shoot. If he doesn't than pass.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
981 days ago
Score 3+-
Above was me. It took Michael three or four years to realize as great as he was, in the NBA you cant win a title by yourself. Not Russell, not Wilt, Bird, whomever, won a title by shooting on more than half of your teams possessions. And considering how well the Lakers played with Shaq complimenting Kobe, you'd think he'd learn. And Lamar Odom is a better player than Pippen, so why not get him involved? Kobe doesn't care about winning, all he cares about is points. He may be a great scorer, but that doesnt mean he's a great player. And he sure as hell ain't the MVP.
Permalink | Reply
The BeastAAA-er
981 days ago
Score 0+-
What you fail to understand is that prior to this streak of 50 plus games he had been more of a facilitator. Odom and Walton are just coming back and Jackson has asked that Kobe shoulder the offensive load. When did Kobe ever talk about just wanting to score points. He has said that he wants to win championships. I don't take his word for gold, but where does this notion that all he cares is about scoring come from. He is shooting over 50% during this streak and they have won all four of his 50+ games. I'd say he wants to win more than anybody.
Permalink
Anonymous Fanatic #2
981 days ago
Score 5+-
Lamar Odom is better than Pippen? Are you retarded?
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
981 days ago
Score 0+-
I'll even say that he's probably the best basketball player in the world, but he ain't MVP...
Permalink | Reply
The BeastAAA-er
981 days ago
Score 0+-
Why isn't he an MVP? He is very valuable to the Lakers.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
981 days ago
Score 2+-
and Emeka Okafor is important to the Bobcats.
Permalink
The BeastAAA-er
981 days ago
Score 0+-
So then how do you determine the MVP?
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
981 days ago
Score 2+-
just like telling the difference between porn and art. You can't explain, but you just know it when you see it. When the TWO TIME REIGNING MVP takes his team to a higher level and has the BEST Numbers of his career, how hard is it to figure out?
Permalink
The BeastAAA-er
981 days ago
Score 0+-
I think Nash has an easier job, considering who his teamates are. He has Stoudamire, Marion, Bell, Barbosa, Thomas, etc. Kobe's supporting cast is way too inconsistant (Odom and Parker) or just plain suck (Kwame Brown). Nash is certainly worthy of his two MVPs, but it is time to give it to KObe for being most valuable to the Lakers and the league;s overall best player.
Permalink
Davis21wylieMVP
981 days ago
Score 2+-
I think it's pretty easy: the MVP is the guy who makes his team better when he's on the court vs. off. And, as I already said, L.A. is 8.7 points per game better with Kobe. Too bad Dallas is 14.3 points better with Dirk, and Phoenix is 14.4 points better with Nash. That's an MVP's impact.
Permalink
The BeastAAA-er
981 days ago
Score 0+-
I think that Phoenix and Dallas are better with Dirk and Nash because they also have better players surrounding them. When Kobe looks to dish it into the post, he has Kwame Brown. When, Nash looks to dish it in, he has Amare Stoudamire. See the difference.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
981 days ago
Score 4+-
Did you ever stop to think that reason the SUns supporting cast is SO good is BECAUSE of Steve Nash? Look at their careers with and without Shave Nest. Raja Bell... Boris Diaw, Amare Stoudemire, Quentin Richardson, Shawn Marion, Tim Thomas, James Jones, on and on... EVERYONE on the Suns roster is having their career year. WHY do you think that is? Because they're ALL really good all at the same time... or because the play with Shave Nest?
Permalink
Davis21wylieMVP
981 days ago
Score 3+-
That doesn't matter when we're talking about the MVP race. Kobe's teammates are what they are. Should we just give Paul Pierce or Joe Johnson the MVP, because their teammates are even worse than Kobe's? The numbers don't lie -- Kobe is, by far, not the MVP.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
981 days ago
Score 0+-
In the long run, I think being called retarded is better than being a gutless chickensh*t anonymous poster.
Permalink
Anonymous Fanatic #2
981 days ago
Score 1+-
How do you figure that Lamar Odom is a better player than Scottie Pippen? Honestly, that is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard, regardless of whether a 'gutless chickensh*t anonymous poster' or a respected poster where is your logic? Pippen is a six-time NBA champion, is 40th in total points (18,940), fourth in steals (2,307), tied for 16th in steals per game (1.96), 23rd in assists (6,135) in NBA history, was a member of the NBA all-defensive team 9 straight years, was a Seven-time NBA All Star and was named as one of the 50 greatest players in NBA history. Not bad huh? Now what the hell as Lamar Odom done where you can see he is better than Pippen? Yeah you're right, Odom is far superior to Pippen... you can call me but you want but really that's just a stupid comment by you.
Permalink
Anonymous Fanatic #2
981 days ago
Score 4+-
By the way, if you guys check all of these stats determining the number of points added because of a player, than KG is above Kobe, Dirk and Nash. And forgetting all this, Gilbert Arenas is at 20.7+ points to his team... so why no MVP consideration for KG or Agent 0?
Permalink | Reply
Davis21wylieMVP
981 days ago
Score 2+-
Good point. Both of those guys are more valuable than Kobe.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
981 days ago
Score 0+-
MVP isn't "Best Stats"
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
981 days ago
Score 3+-
LeBron is more an MVP than Kobe.
Permalink
Davis21wylieMVP
981 days ago
Score 2+-
These aren't traditional "stats", Manny. They put numbers on what you used to have to rely on your gut for -- how much better a team is with a player than without him. So, at this point, I think the MVP should go to the player with the best on/off court differential. After all, he's technically the most valuable, isn't he?
Permalink
Anonymous Fanatic #2
981 days ago
Score 3+-
Exactly what I was saying.
Permalink
Bobman024JV Squad
981 days ago
Score 2+-
Look the reason why Kobe is not the MVP is because his team is barely going to make the playoffs and although he is having a monstrous run, the Lakers will be one and done. He cannot score 50 points a game in the playoffs and have a shot. Now the playoffs don't count toward the MVP, but common Nash = elevates to Championship caliber team. Kobe = elevates mediocre team to 7th or 8th playoff slot and first round exit. He is number 3 in the MVP race right now in my eyes.
Permalink | Reply
I am a cpcpMajor Leaguer
981 days ago
Score 1+-
Beast you keep harping on this "better supporting cast issue." If a player is truly an MVP, other players will want to come play with him. Kobe had opportunties at having great players around him but scared them all away.
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
981 days ago
Score 2+-
and when Kobe DID have great players around him, was he MVP worthy? No.
Permalink
Anonymous Fanatic #3
981 days ago
Score -3+-
dirk deserves thew mvp look at last year when the mavs were robbed in the finals. Now we have the best record in the NBA. they reached 50 wins the 6th fastest in NBA history. So thats why Dirk deserves the MVP.
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
981 days ago
Score 2+-
there you go, Anon... The best player on the team with best record automatically gets MVP...

or We could just admit that's a pretty stupid idea.

By the Way, the MVP is for the season and voted on BEFORE the playoffs start, so bitching about "getting robbed" in the finals has no merit. Besides, you (the Mavs) were only in the finals because of Raja Bell's freak calf injury.

Enjoy fishing and golfing in June THIS year, Mavs fan.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
981 days ago
Score 1+-
not bad, Beast... you trolled out 3 Anon's!!! Mission Accomplished!!!
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
978 days ago
Score 1+-
Davis, run the WARP for the big 4 (Dirk, Nash, Kobe, LeBron). I believe Kobe is the best player in the league right now. That should have changed with D-wade taking over, but he suffered injuries that set that back. BUT, I feel that the MVP goes to Dirk or Nash. My preference goes to Dirk for the numbers Davis threw out, and because I feel that Dirk does almost as much as Nash does in the non-scoring world, and still scores 20+ pts a game.
Permalink | Reply
Davis21wylieMVP
978 days ago
Score 1+-
Okay, last time I ran stats was the 21st, but they should suffice; Kobe's 50-point outbursts are in there:
WARP Leaders	Team	Pos	WARP
nowitzki,dirk*	dal	PF	10.17
duncan,tim	san	PF	9.57
james,lebron*	cle	SF	9.30
garnett,kevin	min	PF	9.14
marion,shawn	pho	PF	8.64
brand,elton	lac	PF	7.87
stoudemire,a.	pho	C	7.78
deng,luol	chi	SF	7.61
howard,dwight	orl	PF	7.49
martin,kevin	sac	SG	7.16
bryant,kobe*	lal	SG	7.14
wade,dwyane	mia	SG	7.05
nash,steve*	pho	PG	6.89

Defense hurts Nash & helps Dirk, although the defensive measure isn't the greatest -- not unless I tweak it with 82games data, that is. Turns out Dirk, Nash, and LeBron are either average or slightly below-average on D this year when examining on/off and counterpart data, with LeBron being the best of the three. Kobe's defending well, and that should be worth at least one extra win that isn't picked up in the boxscore stats. But is that enough to supplant Dirk or LeBron?

I should say that I think Kobe's probably the most talented player in the NBA, except for (maybe) LBJ and Wade. But the best player isn't the MVP. That's why I keep coming back to plus/minus -- I've gone on the record saying that Gilbert Arenas might be the MVP, given the fact that he's more valuable to Washington than any other player is to any other team, save perhaps for Steve Nash and Phoenix. But the NBA didn't do us any favors by not explicitly defining the criteria for selecting the MVP. Should it be the best player on the best team (Nowitzki)? The player that means the most to his team (Nash/Arenas)? I'm not sure what the answer is.
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
978 days ago
Score 0+-
so appearantly, I forgot Kobe, lemme go run that
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
978 days ago
Score 0+-
I ran the average rank out of Win Shares, +/-, and WARP for what are likely the top contenders(and D-Wade because I'm bias). The only tie was broken by my own bias. Here's the results:
Player	82 Games Rank	Win Shares Rank	WARP Ranking	Average Rank	Final Rankings
Dirk	2	1	1	1.33	1
Nash	4	6	7	5.66	6
James	6	2	3	3.66	4
Arenas	1	4	8	4.33	5
Duncan	5	5	2	3.33	3
KG	3	3	4	3.33	2
Howard	8	8	5	7	8
D-Wade	7	6	6	6.33	7
Permalink | Reply
False ProphetAll-Star
978 days ago
Score 0+-
let's male that nicer:
Player	82G     WS      WARP	Avg	Final
Dirk	2	1	1	1.33	1
Nash	4	6	7	5.66	6
James	6	2	3	3.66	4
Arenas	1	4	8	4.33	5
Duncan	5	5	2	3.33	3
KG	3	3	4	3.33	2
Howard	8	8	5	7	8
D-Wade	7	6	6	6.33	7
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
978 days ago
Score 0+-
sorry, forgot to sort:
Player	82G     WS      WARP	Avg	Final
Dirk	2	1	1	1.33	1
KG	3	3	4	3.33	2
Duncan	5	5	2	3.33	3
James	6	2	3	3.66	4
Arenas	1	4	8	4.33	5
Nash	4	6	7	5.66	6
D-Wade	7	6	6	6.33	7
Howard	8	8	5	7	8
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
978 days ago
Score 0+-
I'll run that tomorrow actually
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
978 days ago
Score 0+-
Player 82G WS WARP Avg Final

Dirk 2 1 1 1.33 1 KG 3 4 4 3.33 2 Duncan 5 6 2 3.33 3 James 7 2 3 3.66 4 Arenas 1 5 9 4.33 5 Kobe 6 2 7 5 6 Nash 4 7 8 5.66 7 D-Wade 8 8 6 6.33 8 Howard 9 9 5 7 9

</pre>
Permalink | Reply
False ProphetAll-Star
978 days ago
Score 1+-
Fixed it all
Player 	82G	WS 	WARP 	Avg 	Final
Dirk 	2 	1 	1 	1.33 	1
KG 	3 	4 	4 	3.33 	2
James 	7 	2 	3 	4 	3
Duncan 	5 	6 	2 	4.33 	4
Arenas 	1 	5 	9 	5 	5
Nash 	4 	7 	8 	6.33	6
Kobe 	6 	2 	7 	6.33 	7
D-Wade 	8 	8 	6 	6.66 	8
Howard 	9 	9 	5 	7.66 	9
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
978 days ago
Score 0+-
so sorry beast and ManRays, neither Nash nor Kobe is MVP, instead, it is Dirk-KG-James
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
978 days ago
Score 0+-
this coming from the Self-"Prophessed" guy who "doesn't know basketball that well and is still learning..." Lesson #1: Steve Nash is the Association's MOST Valuable Player.
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
978 days ago
Score 0+-
I ran the rankings that Dice21 uses, and averaged them together. I would do the same for any sport. I know enough to say that while KG may not be the MVP, he is a top 3 player. Nash is not the MVP, and neither is Kobe.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
978 days ago
Score 0+-
Basketball is played on wood, not silicon!
Permalink | Reply
Anonymous Fanatic #4
655 days ago
Score 0+-
Kobe should just retire and tell everbody to go to hell and then come back out of retirement in about 2 years.
Permalink | Reply
Add your Comment
ArmchairGM welcomes all comments. If you don't want to be anonymous, Register or Login. It's free


Retrieved from "http://armchairgm.wikia.com/Kobe_is_By_Far_the_MVP"

This page was last modified 16:48, 24 March 2007. Content is available under the GFDL.

Contribute

ArmchairGM's pages can be edited.
Is this page incomplete? Is there anything wrong?
Change it!

Edit this page Discuss this page Page history

Recent contributors to this page

The following people recently contributed to this article.

Embed this on your site

Main Page About Special Pages Help Terms of Use Advertise