armchairgm
all sports, all you
+ Add Friends
You are not logged-in.
Sign Up - Log In
Main Page
Sports
Write
Articles
Hot Links
Images
Meet People
Fun
Explore
MLB - NFL - NBA - NHL - College Basketball - College Football - Soccer - Nascar - Other
Article - Locker Room Discussion
All Articles - New Articles - Today's Articles
Submit a Link - Approve Links
Picture Game - Ratings - Polls - Pick Game - Quiz Game - Spring Silliness
Random Page - Random Image - Random Fan
Edit
Page history Discuss pageWhat links here

Jim Rice, Cal Ripken, Tony Gwynn, Mark McGwire and Steroids

13
Vote

by user Josh Q. Public

Josh Q. Public: Ain’t that a shame? My tears fell like rain. Ain’t that a shame? You’re the one to blame.

Public Service Announcement:

OK, here we go! The Baseball Hall of Fame. Coperstown. Hallowed grounds. Preserving history, honoring excellence, connecting generations. Gwynn is in like Huckleberry Finn. So is Cal, I see the rationale. No problems there. None whatsoever. What’s worrisome is the McGwire thing. If he wasn’t voted in due to his performance, enhanced or otherwise, fine. But if he is being blackballed due to the steroids, be careful. Be very, very careful. You gotta think just about everybody was doing them. Everybody. And until there’s proof, we cannot pass judgment. Palmiero, he was caught. You Judge Wapner away with him. Bring Rusty with you. Heck, you can even drag Doug Llewelyn along for all I care. But as for Big Mac: No proof, no dice. There’s plenty of holier than thous out there complaining that McGwire shouldn’t even be on the same ballot with Gwynn and Cal. And, therein lies the problem.

Who’s to say those cats weren’t on the juice. Murder by numbers, 1-2-3. Here we go. In 1988, at the age of 28, Gwynn hit .313. The next year, his average went up to .336. Ok, we know. But after that, he hit .309, .317 and .317. Ya, big deal? Well, check it check it out. Out of nowhere, at the ripe old age of 33, Tony becomes a tiger. He’s grrrrrreat! Miraculously boosts his average to .358. At 34, he hit .394. At 35, 36 and 37 he hit .368, .353 and .372. Hmmm. Curiously strong. A 37-year-old Tony Gwynn hits 59 points better than a 28-year-old Tony Gwynn? Interesting. Very interesting. Arte Johnson interesting. And what about your boy Cal? The year Brady Anderson hit 50 bombs, Cal racked up more total bases and posted a higher slugging percentage than he had in the five previous seasons. Things that make you go hmmm. To play all those games in a row sure does take some cheerleader like recovery. Heroes style. Don’t you think? I’m just saying. Who the hell knows? That’s just it. We don’t. We assume. We conjecture. We hypothesize. We surmise. We speculate, contemplate, guesstimate, ruminate and excogitate. The one thing we don’t do, is know. And until we do, we need to be very, very careful.

Now, the obligatory Big Jim Ed Rice plea. I’ll make this brief. How does this cat not get in. In his day, he was the best hitter in the American League. Bar none! In 1978 he was the best hitter in baseball. C’mon fellas. Jokes over. Enough is enough. Jim Ed deserves to be in Cooperstown. This voting is a travesty. It’s a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham. How do you not select this cat. Here are some stats:

In 1977, he led the league with 39 home runs. He also had 206 hits. The first of three consecutive years with at least 35 homers and 200 hits. Are you kidding me? He was the first player ever to have accomplished that feat. He also led the league in total bases for three straight years, becoming only the third A.L. player - after Ty Cobb and Ted Williams - to do so.

Jim Ed won the MVP award in 1978. In 1978, he accumulated an astounding 406 total bases. 406! The only guy ever in the American League to do so since 1938. The last guy to do it before Rice? Super Joe DiMaggio. No one in the AL has done it since Rice. Not even the juicers. Simply unbelievable. EMF style.

Jim Rice was so strong that his ordinary grounders would be into the outfield before the infielders could react to them. So strong he would break bats on check swings. Some kids piss their name in the snow. Jim Ed Rice can piss his name into concrete.

Of the 17 players with 300 homers and a career average as high as Rice’s .298, Rice is the only one not in Cooperstown.

Free Jim Rice!

Peace out homies. Six Two and Even! josh q public

Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
Bball3345Draft Pick
1053 days ago
Score 1+-
Good article, I don't agree Jim Rice is a Hall-of-Famer, but good article nonetheless.
Permalink | Reply
Anonymous Fanatic #1
1053 days ago
Score 1+-
hey thanks, if you'r a boston guy you want rice in. i could have written the same thing about gossage. How is Bruce Suter in, and Goose not. Suter, at his best, was a Tad Hamilton better than Gossage. But the Goose was better for so much longer. Another shamockery.
Permalink
Bball3345Draft Pick
1053 days ago
Score 1+-
Goose being in I am fully behind. There is no excuse for Gossage not being in the Hall.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1053 days ago
Score 0+-
GOOSE Goose Gossage
IS a Hall of Famer!!!.
Permalink
ChristofMVP
1053 days ago
Score 1+-
If Jim Rice has not made it into the Hall by now, he never will.
Permalink | Reply
Anonymous Fanatic #2
1053 days ago
Score 0+-
Not necessarily. The next couple yrs will be weak with first timers. Raines is borderline next yr, Rickey Henderson is a lock the yr after. Goose and Rice will have their best chances then.
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
1053 days ago
Score 1+-
Steroids generally = injuries so that devalues the argument about Cal. Is it possible? I guess, but it's not bloody likely. He's had no other symptoms reported (Giant head, etc).

As for Gwynn, there's been a correlation between steroids and HRs, but hits? If the ball stays in the park, it shouldn't change much, unless he took those special "hit it where they aint" steroids. If there were some numbers showing an increase in extra base hits, you might have an argument. Average alone would be a weak predictor of steroid use, I would imagine.

Jim Rice is just on the outside in my opinion, but you could almost put him in. Gossage's omission is definitely a Travishamockery, but it will be rectified next year.
Permalink | Reply
JoshkrossDraft Pick
1053 days ago
Score 0+-
And oh yeah, look at the Ripken family and their ties to baseball played traditionally. Look at his dad. I just don't think it is in Cal's makeup, whereas the Bondses are a little different.
Permalink
Josh Q. PublicVarsity
1053 days ago
Score 1+-
gwynn- you don't think steroids help bat speeed?

Ripken- Steroids clearly help muscle recovery time

I'm not saying these guys used. That's just it. I'm saying we just don't know. we can discuss what we think adnauseum. bu we just don't know
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
1053 days ago
Score 0+-
Gwynn - they might, but there hasn't been a correlation there. I understand thats a weaker point

Ripken - They also lead to injury. I fervently believe that there is no way he could have broken that record if he was roiding. I think thats a reasonably safe belief.

Additionally, like i said before, they showed NO other symptoms, whereas all you need to do is chart the head and acne growth of McGwire, Bonds, Sosa, etc to see other signs. There's no proof that Ichirio isn't using weird japanese roids, but common sense dictates otherwise.
Permalink
Josh Q. PublicVarsity
1053 days ago
Score 0+-
wait a minute. dont go by looks. floyd landis? Armstrong? Ryan Franklin? Alex Sanchez?
Permalink
JoshkrossDraft Pick
1053 days ago
Score 0+-
The bikers use different techniques than what baseball players would use. The drugs that make you able to bike at for 3-4 hours are different than those to build bat speed or those that make you recover from injury faster.

As for Sanchez and Franklin, I don't know enough to know if they showed other symptoms and I don't have an injury report in front of me. I'm willing to bet that with some looking around we could find a reasonable expectation. Sanchez does seem to have a history of muscle injuries. Let me check out their hat sizes :)

Seriously, while there's no way of 100% of knowing they didn't, I find it disingenuous to say that because we don't know if they did, we can't condemn people who obviously did.

Honestly, all arguing aside, do you really think Cal and Tony did?
Permalink
EnyboDiv-I Stud
1052 days ago
Score 0+-
I heard that there is a correlation between steroids and better eye sight. Although, it's much easier to justify/believe a player can become a better hitter in his later years than a more powerful hitter.
Permalink
Anonymous Fanatic #3
1053 days ago
Score -1+-
Next year is Rice's last season on the ballot. But thats what the Veterans Committee is for, to take care of the guys who were left out by writers who never played the game, and only go to the ballpark half the time for the free buffet. After all, the Veterans Committee is made up entirely of living Hall of Famers. And NO closer is Hall of Fame worthy.
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1053 days ago
Score 1+-
If by "Closer" you mean "pinch runner", then I agree!
Permalink
EnyboDiv-I Stud
1052 days ago
Score 2+-
How can you say no closer is hall worthy? Just because the game has evolved doesn't mean players with superior talent who happen to get slotted into the end of games should be left off the ballot.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
1053 days ago
Score 0+-
Above one was mine, damn logouts
Permalink | Reply
Phoenix SuperfanVarsity
1053 days ago
Score 1+-
Next year's hall class is very weak. No way anyone gets in on the first ballot. Could be a good year for Rice, Gossage, and Dawson.
Permalink | Reply
EnyboDiv-I Stud
1052 days ago
Score 0+-
HAWK Andre Dawson should be in the Hall of Fame.
Permalink
Add your Comment
ArmchairGM welcomes all comments. If you don't want to be anonymous, Register or Login. It's free


Retrieved from "http://armchairgm.wikia.com/Jim_Rice%2C_Cal_Ripken%2C_Tony_Gwynn%2C_Mark_McGwire_and_Steroids"

This page was last modified 15:54, 11 January 2007. Content is available under the GFDL.

Contribute

ArmchairGM's pages can be edited.
Is this page incomplete? Is there anything wrong?
Change it!

Edit this page Discuss this page Page history

Recent contributors to this page

The following people recently contributed to this article.

Embed this on your site

Main Page About Special Pages Help Terms of Use Advertise