Jane, You Ignorant...Part 2: Tyrone Willingham
| 5
|
Part one ( Afraid of Ed Hochuli: Jane You Ignorant... Part 1: Tyrone Willingham) was fun. I hope Joe felt the same way. So we are doing a second. The first ended up leaning towards my side more (due to the writing of it), so I have let Joe retort to me, I will follow up and then we will have closing statements. We have realized that we aren't going to change each other's minds, and we probably won't change yours. There is a rift in Husky-Nation that a blog can not fix. But all we have are facts and conjecture...so we use it.
Part 2.
Joe:
I believe Gilbertson paid the price after one year for his miserable showing. Ty has had 3 years with no improvement. 6 coaches in the history of Husky football have lost to OSU, Nike U and WSU all in the same season. Gilbertson being one of them who was fired. 2007 - Willingham 2005 - Willingham 2004 - Gilbertson who was fired 1973 - Owens1968 - Owens 1941 - Phelan, his last year at Washington
Matt:
Gilbertson was for all intents and purposes an interim head coach, and his record got worse. (6-6, 1-10). And there has been improvement. Maybe not in the win-loss, but that is based on the strength of schedule. You can’t look at win-loss to see improvement. The O-Line is something to be proud of and the Linebackers are very good. True, the Defensive Line and the Secondary left something to desire, but the team itself has come into something that with consistency will be better.
Joe:
I never slighted Ty for poor recruiting. I am saying that players are not basing their choice on coming to UW based on whether Ty is the coach. But you could ask Taylor Mays, Steve Schilling and Jonathan Stewart a few things about his recruiting. It does not matter whether the talent he has on the team, the majority having been recruited by him, is terrible. To call them out and plead for more bullets so you can compete with Nike U and USC is pathetic and shameful. Stanford was loaded with talent, Ty just underachieved on the field and in player development. Despite 7 top 25 recruiting classes in the 90’s. Ty could not get Stanford into the AP top 25.
http://cbs.sportsline.com/u/football/college/recruiting/recruitingrate.htm
Matt:
I apologize if I read it wrong, but in general the “anti-Ty” group gives him credit for the bad but not the good. You have to admit that the more in-state players you keep, the better you are going to be, and we have seen that it is getting better over the last 3 classes. Mays, Schilling and Stewart were HUGE losses, but those were during the rebuilding, and if Ty is gone, who is to say that it won’t start happening again.
Again, they say they are coming here because of the school, but that is something that we can’t know. They could say that they are coming because they went to a great kegger and it wouldn’t make a difference. The point is: They are coming, he is the head coach, so his recruiting is working.
Joe:
The UW did come close in many games this year, valiant efforts to be sure. Close however only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. They led 8 games at the half and only won 4 of them. No one expected them to go 9-4 but when the season developed and games which should have been won; USC, UA, WSU, UCLA expectations change.
Matt:
I admit that after they beat Boise, I felt that they were turning around, and maybe I have rose colored glasses on, but really? Just because they were close doesn’t mean that the Eagles beat the Seahawks. The Ravens were close over the Pats, does that make Ravens fans think that it will turn around?
The fourth quarter losses were killers, though….I will agree with that.
Joe:
What else is out there? Yes Jim Mora the younger is available but I will not go into why he would be an ideal fit for the UW program at this time. Chan Gailey was 44-32 at GT, Bill Callahan was 27-22 at Nebraska before they were fired. Pete Carrol is 75-14 and June Jones is 75-40 at Hawaii. Ty is 11-25 at UW so yes I would take any of those NFL guys over Ty. Also Karl Dorrel who was just fired at UCLA after “5 mediocre years” went 35-27, .565. In order for Ty to reach this level of mediocrity he would need to go 24-2 in the next 2 years.
Joe:
Where is Charlie Weiss now? He currently has the #1 recruiting class in the nation, his record is 22-15.
Matt:
But what about by year? 2005: 9-3 (Ty’s recruits) 2006: 10-3 (Ty’s recruits) 2007: 3-9 (Most of his guys are gone)
His recruiting class is #1 this year, was #8 in '07, #8 in '06 and #40 in '05. So it has gotten better, but the team has gotten worse. And, to use the argument of the “anti-Tys”: It is Notre Dame. These guys would have gone there anyway.
Joe:
Only 5 coaches in the history of college football who have had the same or a worse record as Ty after 3 years have been able to turn their program around. Three consecutive losses to Oregon by 20+ points. Three consecutive losses to Oregon State. Lost both home games to Wazzu. Gave up the most yards rushing ever in Husky Stadium: 465 yards Gave an encore to that running performance by allowing 510 yards the following week. Has allowed the most points ever against a Husky Football team. 1 -5 in bowl games. One loss was to East Carolina 42-35-1 in home games at three storied programs. Three straight losses at home to San Jose State!
Vs. WSU, OSU, & UO Lambright: 12-6 Neuheisel: 9-2 Gilbertson: 3-3 Ty: 1-8 - 8 losses to NW foes with Ty. - 8 losses combined to NW foes: Lambright’s last two years, the Neuheisel era, and the Gilby era.
All three were fired!
Matt:
I won’t /can’t argue with facts.
Joe:
Mark Emmert has been down this road before. He was Chancellor at LSU when he fired Gary DiNardo who was 32-24-1 to bring in Nick Saban. He knows how important the football program is to the University and the Athletic Department. I don’t believe Emmert will stand for the mediocrity that has invaded the UW program. If he does not act then Ty will be back and the UW will go 5-7. 6-6 or 7-5 next year which used to get you fired at Washington, now it would be a huge success and that is just sad.
Matt:
I won’t argue with Emmert’s past, either. What I will close with though, is that how do we know he will go 5-7. 6-6 or 7-5? What if he gets 9 wins against another very tough schedule?
My point to this is that they hired him for 5 years. Give him 3. Why? - Consistency - Recruits - If you fire him, the precedence set for candidates is that they have only 3 years. - If you fire him, you have to pay him close to $3 Million plus what you have to pay the new guy…there goes some of the funding for a stadium. -There has been enough progress made that it is not fair to say there won’t be more as Locker becomes more consistent, they get a better recruited running back in, and they have a couple of solid WRs.
The Defense will be a year older (and in college that is a good thing), the secondary will be matured.
My point is that getting rid of him will create more problems then keeping him another year. The destruction of any sort of progress, the loss of momentum and rebuilding from the ground up has been going on for 6 years. If they try to do it again there will be another decade of frustration. And where does it end? What does someone have to do? If they get to the National Championship one year and doesn't make it the next, will they be gone?
Joe:
In closing the debate over whether to keep Ty or fire Ty will always be divided. Each side has valid points. I believe that 3 years has been enough time to show whether this program is on the upswing.
You can make a case that it is in some areas but not in others. When forming my opinion on Ty I choose to look at the facts surrounding him.
I do not care about “ifs” or base my thoughts on the “hope” that he can turn it around. Other schools have shown that firing coaches after 3 years or less does not necessarily lead to turmoil, it can lead to successful turnarounds (CAL) or national championships (OU).
The UW should not be content with moral victories and mediocre win/loss records. Tyrone Willingham is a man of character and a straight shooter and I respect that, I think as a man he is one of the class acts in college football. I was a supporter when he was hired and even as recently as the victory over Boise State which at the time was looked at as a signature win and a program changer.
That being said, as his 3rd season wore on the same mistakes continued to be made and the results on the field did not improve. I think it is time for a change, the UW cannot afford to further develop a culture of losing that has permeated the program since Rick Neuheisal’s messy departure.
