Is Tony LaRussa REALLY that good?

by user Manny Stiles

It's widely assumed that Tony LaRussa is a lock for the Hall of Fame. He's coached two teams to a World Series including this year's team which had the worst record of any World Series champion.

I'm not saying he's a BAD manager, I just don't think he's that good, and I can name 15-20 managers I'd rather have if I owned my own team.

I know he's third in wins (but 33rd in win pct. and will be third in losses early next year) and has won FOUR Manager of the Year awards ('83, '88, '92 and '02 - note: none of those teams won the Series). It seems his BEST quality is simply 'not getting fired'

I'll admit, I can't help but have a bad taste left over from the '88 Earthquake Series and I don't think he really helped his team win this year in as much as the Tigers (literally) threw the Series away... Jeez, Cito Gaston won two World Series' too...

Maybe it's just me, and I hope someone can explain this to me... but besides the fact that he has no personality and his work with animals is endearing, he just doesn't seem like a Hall of Fame Manager to me... WHAT has he done so spectacularly (bat a pitcher 8th?) that he is a lock? I can't help but see him as a benefactor to managing a LOT of really good teams (11 first place finishes) that underachieved while he recieved credit for it.

Can someone PLEASE explain to me WHY is Tony Larussa generally percieved as being so "good"?

Date

Thu 11/02/06, 1:40 pm EST

I am a cpcpMajor Leaguer

1142 days ago

Score 0

Some insight into LaRussa can be gained by reading Three Nights in October (or something like that) that came out last year. LaRussa has the respect of all his players (not named Scott Rolen), knows the game and keeps his team playing together.

I don't think any manager is really great because when it comes right down to it, the manager doesn't do a whole lot and that's why nothing much changes most times a team tries to shake things up with a managerial change.

There are good managers, managers and bad managers. LaRussa is one of the good ones.

Permalink | Reply

Manny StilesMajor Leaguer

1142 days ago

Score 1

I disagree. I think there are GREAT managers. They are guys that get every little bit out of each player and the roster altogether. great managers handle pitching staffs, doesn't tinker with every little thing and lets his players play. Bobby Cox would be an example. Joe Torre has done that in New York (not so much at other stops)

People always say that this coach or that coach does this or that well... Tony LaRussa "has a lawyer's background and loves checking his piles of data and spreadsheets"

Ok, which is it? Is he a tactician/mathmetician? Or is he a deliberator and judicial being? You can't be both. I think he gets credit he doesn't deserve...

I guess the only thing that sets Tony LaRussa apart in my mind is that he always turned the other way while guys on his team were 'roiding up... Oh yeah, the two BIGGEST, most notorious cheaters - Canseco & McGwire

Permalink

I am a cpcpMajor Leaguer

1142 days ago

Score 1

"the manager doesn't do a whole lot" = "doesn't tinker with every little thing and lets his players play"

Permalink

Manny StilesMajor Leaguer

1142 days ago

Score 1

I forgot to say great managers know WHEN to make the moves and step in... LaRussa just seems to tinker all the time - his legacy will be the invention of the one-out relief pitcher. Yeah, like that was good for baseball...

Permalink

JoshkrossDraft Pick

1141 days ago

Score 0

Sorry, Torre is not a great manager. He was mediocre with every other team he managed, and fell into a team in 96 that would have one if Isaiaiaih Thomas was the manager. If Showalter was given one more year, we'd be talking about him instead. That team was incredibly well built and as it's an A.L. team, it's not thaaat hard to mange. Cox is a great manager however.

Permalink

Manny StilesMajor Leaguer

1142 days ago

Score 1

9 times he's had teams with 95 wins or more - 4 over 100 wins... he's been swept from the World Series as many times as he's won it - 103 wins and 105 win teams SWEPT from the Series by teams with worse records... and the 104 wins A's were whooped by the inferior Dodgers... hmm!

Permalink | Reply

I am a cpcpMajor Leaguer

1142 days ago

Score 0

I'm really not sure whre you're going with that. What does number of wins have to do with anything? If it was about the number of wins in a season they wouldn't have the playoffs. LaRussa is now 9-9 in World Series games, Bobby Cox who is "great" is 10-14 with one less championship.

Permalink

LeftyloonJV Squad

1142 days ago

Score 1

Larussa has coached 28 major league seasons and made the postseason 12 times. Not too bad especially considering only 4 of 26 teams made the playoffs for the first half of his career. He's won two world series with two different teams, been to 5 world series, and taken 3 teams to the playoffs. His teams have had winning records in 20 of his 28 seasons. However, I think his biggest contribution--and more specifically his pitching coach's (Dave Duncan) is his track record with taking veteran pitchers off the scrap heap and turning them into stars. Dave Stewart, Bob Welch, and Chris Carpenter are 3 that come to mind.

Permalink | Reply

Manny StilesMajor Leaguer

1141 days ago

Score 0

Look, all I'm saying is he's going to get the credit for winning with an 83 win team, yet NO ONE will blame him for NOT winning with FOUR 100+ win teams... that just doesn't make sense... Maybe I just don't like him, his haircut, his lack of personality... but overall, I just never thought he was that good of a manager. And I'd rather pick 20+ or so other dudes WELL before I'd pick him to manage my team...

Permalink

BigPPupMajor Leaguer

1142 days ago

Score 1

Manny I agree with you on this one, Ive been wondering teh same question about Larussa for a few years now, and actually did not want him to win the Wold Series this year because of the "genius" tag that would be placed on him

Permalink | Reply

EnyboDiv-I Stud

1142 days ago

Score 1

I don't know that anyone is calling him a genius, but the fact is he took an underrated team and did what no one thought he could do. Not one "expert" picked the Cardinals to win any of the series. They beat the best NL team in the Mets and they beat the beat the hottest team in the postseason in the Tigers. He did it all with arguably one of the worst teams he has coached in St. Louis. As for Manny, how can you call Torre a great manager with what he has accomplished lately. He has had more talent than he has ever had and he continues to come up short. The fact that you can call Torre great and Larussa bad is ridiculous.

Permalink

Manny StilesMajor Leaguer

1141 days ago

Score 0

If he was such a great manager, they wouldn't have been so horrible in the second half (yeah, I know about the injuries) And yes, I HAVE heard several references to his "genius", how he has a law background, "He's so judicious out there" and also his number crunching, batting certain guys with the spreadsheet averages (how he was the forefather of lefty-lefty matchups and specialist relievers)

Permalink

BigPPupMajor Leaguer

1142 days ago

Score 0

See... its all about the image Manny Think George Canstanza when he realized that if he looked frustrated then the boss would think he is busy

Permalink | Reply

ASwaffAll-American

1142 days ago

Score 1

I've felt for years that he was overrated. He's benefitted from teams with outrageous talent, and still didn't win in a lot of years that he should have. He's obsessed with double switches and utility players. I really think he's just okay.

Permalink | Reply

Anonymous Fanatic #1

1141 days ago

Score 0

So is Joe Torre overrated? What about Phil Jackson? Or Jimmy Johnson? Plenty of coaches screw it up with talented rosters.

Permalink

Manny StilesMajor Leaguer

1141 days ago

Score 0

I agree with you ASwaff. Anon - it's not about screwing up, obviously Tony's best talent (as I alluded to in the article) is NOT getting fired. And I'd take all 3 of the guys you mentioned above over Larussa, all day, all night...

Permalink

The sharkDraft Pick

1141 days ago

Score 1

I'm sorry, but outside of Pujols, this year's Cardinals team did not have "outrageous talent". In fact no other manager in history has ever battled his team through an entire post-season to a World Series title with an 83-win team. He's not among the best managers ever, but LaRussa is a Hall-of-Famer, and deservedly so.

Permalink

Manny StilesMajor Leaguer

1141 days ago

Score 0

I'll certainly take Torre's playing career over LaRussa'a ANY day...

Permalink | Reply

LastRowAll-American

1141 days ago

Score 1

Manny, I'm disappointed surely Dusty Baker is better...Why he did a hell of a job in Chicago. But really, aren't all baseball managers overated? Who can't fill out a lineup card? Who can't make a call down to the bullpen? Who can't tell when a pitcher change is needed? Who can't argee with umps? Why there hardest job is to see who can spit the sunflower seeds the furthest.

Permalink

The sharkDraft Pick

1141 days ago

Score 2

Sure. But give me a $200 million payroll and I'll win more than zero World Series titles in a six-year span.

Permalink

The sharkDraft Pick

1141 days ago

Score 1

Only two managers have ever won a World Series title in each league: LaRussa and Sparky Anderson. Surely there is something to be said for that, no?

Permalink | Reply

TartanVarsity Captain

1141 days ago

Score 1

Sparky Anderson won half of that duo with probably the finest 8 everyday players in the modern baseball era. This box of Cheez-its next to me could have managed that team to win the 1976 series.

Permalink

Manny StilesMajor Leaguer

1141 days ago

Score 0

No, that box of Cheez-its already coached the Eagles and Jets in the '90s

Permalink

Manny StilesMajor Leaguer

1141 days ago

Score 0

If there's something to be said fo that, then there's something to be said for Fred McGriff leading both leagues in HRs steroid-free... BTW I don't think it's that impressive to manage teams in both leagues to a title- most good coaches stay with the same franchise for decades and never switch teams, let alone leagues

Permalink

Manny StilesMajor Leaguer

1141 days ago

Score 2

I played baseball for a bunch of different coaches/managers back in my day (from coaches in their 20's to coaches in their late 80's), and I'll be the first to say a good coach DOES make a difference. I don't know that LaRussa would have gotten very much out of me. Of course, I am a whack job.

Permalink | Reply

Manny StilesMajor Leaguer

1141 days ago

Score 0

Lookee here, LaRussa goes Hollywood... Seriously!?!?! Would this have been green-lit if they would have lost the division lead in the last two weeks??

Permalink | Reply