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DNL
I'm a long-time sports fan and one of the founders of ArmchairGM.

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Improve ArmchairGM: January 2008

by DNL
created January 07, 2008, last edited February 10, 2009
39
Vote


When we first cooked up the idea for ArmchairGM, the encyclopedia was the major goal. Why? Because at the end of the day, it's where ArmchairGM can succeed where no one else has.

Most sports news and opinion is homogeneous. That's not why ESPN and others have thriving websites. The Associated Press and various newspaper beat writers are the ones who drive the news, not Buster Olney, Stephen A. Smith, or Sean Salisbury. And most big news stories can be boiled down to a sentence or two, e.g. "The FBI is investigating Michael Vick on suspicion of running and illegal dog fighting ring" or "Peyton Manning leads the Indianapolis Colts to a Super Bowl victory over the Chicago Bears." And as we all know, ESPN et al did not make it big because Stephen A, Woody Paige, et al are smarter than we are. Opinions are like noses -- everyone has one, and most of them smell. So while the "Articles" section of ArmchairGM is great, and for most people, the best part of the site, it's not something that is going to ever make our humble website into the exceptional resource it can become.

Where ESPN thrives, ArmchairGM cannot. That's the live scoring updates; GameTracker and things like that; access to players and front office types, etc. We knew that from day one.

Where we can thrive, though, ESPN cannot touch us: the encyclopedia. ESPN's biggest asset is its brand as the worldwide leader and the "professionalism" that such a brand dictates. Amateurs like ourselves -- and I use that word in the sense that we do it out of passion, not for pay -- have no business writing for ESPN.

Imagine if we were the sports encyclopedia. Imagine if, when someone wanted to know more about a player whose name they heard on the radio or read on Yahoo or saw on ESPN, they said "let me check ArmchairGM." That -- that -- is when we becomes the Buster Olney's of the sports world. And there's really no other way to do it.

And there's no way I can do it alone. In fact, I can't do it with five of you helping, or even 25. It will take hundreds if not thousands of sports fans to help -- but we'll start with the 500-1000 sports fans who visit ArmchairGM's main page every day.

What I need you to do is simple: Cast 100 fewer votes a day. Write one fewer article. And write 20 fewer comments. Instead, take that time to edit one or more of the pages in to help me reach some goals.

What goals? Two big ones:

#1: Create a Really Freaking Incredible 2008 NFL Draft Guide

I am going to spend the week after the Super Bowl contacting anyone and everyone who is going to talk about the NFL Combines and Draft online. If I see a mock draft, the author will get an email from me.

Why? There's no excellent, established guide for all the top prospects out there; no one-stop place for draft information, etc. I want all the bloggers and other small sports sites to link to our draft page; but to do that, we need great player profiles. Right now, we have about 30. We need about 100.

Step 1: Go to the 2008 NFL Draft page and click a few player names. Put up bios, scouting reports, images, video clips, etc. Make them pages that we all should be proud of. Fill in the blanks where others left off.

Even if you're not a college football fan -- even if you have no idea who the player is -- you can help. The information is out there -- it's just scattered amongst dozens of sites. Go out there, gather it together, and write a comprehensive, readable entry. It's easy, really, just takes some legwork.

If you know of a guy that should be on the list but isn't, add him.

Participation: Everyone, honestly. The more player pages that turn out like Darren McFadden's, the better.

Step 2: Help with the Mock Draft Directory. It's at 2008 NFL Draft#Mock Drafts. This is an easy job -- just add to and update the table. This step is also much, much less important. I figure that if we become the clearing house for mock drafts, we'll gain attention for our soon-to-be-great encyclopedic content. But that's just a guess and it's no replacement for encyclopedic content.

What I'd like here is three to five people to volunteer to create the index (I can give you two starting points) and keep it updated from now until the Draft.

Step 3: Make the 2008 NFL Draft page better. I put this low on the list because I'm not sure what else to put on it (other than to update the page as the draft order changes), but like any other page, it is editable and your additions and improvements are welcome.

Step 4: Make pages for the other drafts. If you scroll down the 2008 NFL Draft page, you'll see a menu with a lot of red links. Just for sake of completeness, you know?

#2: Build a Legitimate MLB section

This one requires a bit more explanation.

The current MLB page is awful, as are the team pages. They're a relic of an idea we had back in December of 2005 (wow), where the focus of the league/team pages would be news and opinion with featured encyclopedic information mixed in. But as you've all come to see, the opinion stuff is seen perfectly well on the main page of the site, making these secondary pages redundant and stale.

I want to refocus the pages, making the encyclopedia the main thrust. Here are the steps:

Step 1: Pick a team to work on. Each team is going to need a LOT of people, unless you're insane like me and can research and write about the New York Mets history for hours on end. Feel free to use the comments here to coordinate, and I'm of course glad to help set up the pages. Use me as a resource. That's why I'm here. I can find you sources, help with wiki text, whatever. It's really not an issue.

Step 2: Help improve the MLB page. I'm working on it at UserWiki:DNL/MLB, and you're welcome to help there, but that's not where I need the focus of your time. Instead, there are a lot of sub-topics off that page that are going to need pages of their own, and I need help making them. For example, I created a page for the 1876 National League Constitution and have red links for five things already. Send me a board note pledging your help, and I'll give you a topic.

Step 3: Work on each team-year page; e.g. 1977 New York Mets. You can, and should, add the Video and Image template into those pages (again, ask me for help!, that's why I'm here), as you make really great pages. The 77 Mets page stinks right now, so don't use it as an example.

Step 4: Make pages for minor league teams, like in Step 1. As you can imagine, this is a low priority.

Everyone's Help is Needed

Building a sports encyclopedia is a huge project. It will take all of your help and the help of countless others. But it makes ArmchairGM a better place. We all want to see this site reach its potential, and it is going to take everyone's help to get there.

Oh, and as Pean suggested, we'll make those people who help a lot into ninjas -- really. We have a new user class here called "ninja", and right now, ninjas have no special powers. But they may later, and this is your first chance to join the ranks.

Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
701 days ago
Score -2+-
Some of us are trying to create a really good snooker section, but nobody is deleting the videos on the Stephen Hendry page!
Permalink | Reply
DNLLegend
701 days ago
Score 1+-
I'll have it fixed in about 2 minutes. But leave these comments open for my projects, please.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
701 days ago
Score 3+-
Yeah, "some of us."
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
701 days ago
Score 1+-
I'll finish with Andre Caldwell today, then start to work on formatting and stuff for the Minnesota Twins and their historic pages so that everyone I find to help has an easier job
Permalink | Reply
DNLLegend
701 days ago
Score 1+-
Just do the Minnesota Twins page itself. Having 25 pages on Twins history is a great project for another month :)
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
701 days ago
Score 1+-
I'll just create two of them (2002 and one that I can't remember) because when I did work on WP, I created a start for two seasons that I can dig up.
Permalink
DNLLegend
701 days ago
Score 1+-
They're already created -- 2002 Minnesota Twins -- pre-populated with some information.
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
701 days ago
Score 2+-
This is so moving, I wish I could do more but I have school....but darn it for the sake of ArmchairGM, I will write fewer articles, vote less (now that Falcon nailed me in the points thing), comment less, and edit some articles!! This is ArmchairGM, and we will strive to be #1! haveadream.jpg
Permalink | Reply
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
701 days ago
Score 2+-
Good work with saying "fewer" instead of "less" for articles. Why did you scrap it for the other words though? They're still countable objects!
Permalink
DNLLegend
701 days ago
Score 2+-
"often" is implied.
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RomiezzoLegend
701 days ago
Score 1+-
I have school too, SS. I'm gonna fail my exams. :P jk. It's so ridiculous. They make me take finals 2 weeks after winter break. But it's all good; I'll still maintain my pace for points, but I don't know if you'll see me as often.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
701 days ago
Score 1+-
Just tell me what to do. I'll help Falcon with the Red Sox page, and False Prophet with the Pats page if you want.
Permalink | Reply
DNLLegend
701 days ago
Score 2+-
Up to them. :) The Red Sox page takes priority -- football season is almost over and no one is going to be searching for that stuff after February. I want to be ahead of the curve, not behind it.
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
701 days ago
Score 1+-
I'll see what I can do with the NFL Draft.
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
701 days ago
Score 1+-
I'll start off with NFL Mock Draft websites.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
701 days ago
Score 2+-
I finished adding all the owners, managers, Rookies of the Year, Cy Youngers, and MVPs for the Red Sox. Hope that helps. Now, all I need is Falcon to give me a heads up on what he wants to do.
Permalink
Falcon02520Legend
701 days ago
Score 1+-
its a work in progress...
Permalink
DNLLegend
701 days ago
Score 2+-
Sorry Romi, I should have said "it's up to you". We're all leaders here -- just make changes and others will edit them.
Permalink
SalmanpourVarsity
699 days ago
Score 1+-
Im in kuwait and romi lives near me as well. I think we can both sit togther and build up Boston redsox section, with its years, players and etc....i think we should do a team leader for each team and the guys that will help him, and do like some kinda of chat room for them to talk and agree what they want to do???
Permalink
CrackajgDraft Pick
701 days ago
Score 1+-
Starting the 1903 National Agreement as we speak. And if I could get signed up to help with the Red Sox as well, that'd be awesome!
Permalink | Reply
DNLLegend
701 days ago
Score 2+-
No need to sign up -- just do it!
Permalink
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
701 days ago
Score 1+-
One thing, citing sources. This applies to your projects, and mine. I assume we need it a la wikipedia, or do we need to bother, since this is written by sports fans? Or do we need to cite the factual stuff, and not the opinionated stuff?
Permalink | Reply
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
701 days ago
Score 1+-
I tried experiementing with the wikipedia way, and I ended up being led down a road of templates that didn't work. Is there a simple way we can do it? If we need to?
Permalink
DNLLegend
701 days ago
Score 1+-
Yeah:


<sup>[URL GOES HERE]</sup>

Permalink
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
701 days ago
Score 1+-
Thanks - it works better than ref!
Permalink
DNLLegend
701 days ago
Score 1+-
No problem.
Permalink
Anonymous Fanatic #1
701 days ago
Score 1+-
Once a month myself or someone from my crew who is wiki-literate come in here and bump up the content in the minor league side of all of your sports. We'll continue to do that for you. Great site!
Permalink | Reply
KillingpabloJV Squad
701 days ago
Score -5+-
Be a good guy and register so we don't have to read idiot anonymous fanatics blabbering and using the word "niggas". Thanks a bunch.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
701 days ago
Score 2+-
I see what's going on... I guess there's little need for a Manny Stiles-like character around here anymore. I thought the "opinion" section was a great place to share fun and entertaining experiences of fandom/journalism. Guess I was mistaken.

Yeah, blame me for empowering the troll people to act like jerks. Blame me for trying to get people to push the envelope on creativity. For every rhyme there is a reason, for every time there is a season... things keep changing while people essentially remain the same. People as a whole are assholes.

I understand that the encyclopedia is "important", but where's the draw? I mean, I'm a writer/creator/artist, not an editor/data entry specialist - editing doesn't exactly get me revved up, ya know? And the years I spent as an accounts processor in the 90's were enough for me... Maybe it should be called ArmchairSportsEncyclopedia.com instead?

Eh, I had a good run... When you get too fat for the old pants, it's time for new pants. I never really felt that confortable in these pants anyway... They're kinda dorky for my Stiles. Oh well, I tried!

If you can't be good, at least be safe. Peace and good tidings!
Permalink | Reply
Falcon02520Legend
701 days ago
Score 2+-
Manny, its you and others that write articles which allows others to edit the encyclopedia... if you aren't writing, others have to step up and do it... plus, imagine how bad the writing could be without the man of many Stiles...
Permalink
DNLLegend
701 days ago
Score 4+-
The draw is in the credibility.

Whenever an ESPN author mentions a player, you can learn more about that guy a click way. We want to be able to do that here. We want to be able to be a one-stop place for sports information -- news, opinions, history. We want to be the resource that comes up when someone pops a question into Google about sports.

That really can't happen without the encyclopedia. The encyclopedia is the key to the game.

As for the draw, well, people come to where the good content is, and they stay there. Imagine if Wikipedia had layered our blogging software on top -- it'd be twice as big, because people are already using it for a reference. I want people to find the site because they wanted to know who Kosuke Fukudome is, or because they wanted to learn more about the New York Mets, and I want them to stick because as they read, they keep learning more and more.

And then, I want them to participate. I want them to participate by adding their knowledge, be it by adding to the encyclopedia or by writing an opinion, or by voting/rating players, whatever. I want ArmchairGM to be the hub of sports information that it can and really should be. And I want it to attract new fans on the strength of its character and content, because that's the only way it ever will.
Permalink
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
701 days ago
Score 2+-
I think Wikia must be offering DNL a pay per edit payrise. :P
Permalink
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
701 days ago
Score 1+-
Why not boost the number of points for editing then? Falcon voted his way to Number 1 last week, and as you say, you'd rather him edit instead for the time being. So if you increase the points for an edit, then you'd get more edits.

Why not have a "Featured Article" system, a la Wikipedia, and then the creators of the Encyclopedia entry get a big points bonus? That might increase the motivation of some people?

Just ideas...
Permalink | Reply
False ProphetAll-Star
701 days ago
Score 1+-
we have a featured article section (I think) on the main page...
Permalink
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
701 days ago
Score 1+-
Hmmm. Fair enough then. But I meant, for instance, that after an article were completed, one of the admins could do it the once over, and then decide if it is FA worthy. Then perhaps the quality of the encyclopedia would improve.
Permalink
DNLLegend
701 days ago
Score 2+-
We don't have the the Featured ___ any more. We replaced it with Inthenews :)
Permalink
TrizzAll-American
701 days ago
Score 1+-
yea well i admit i came to armchairgm so i could write articles and random rants and have an instant audience, i see why Dan is coming from you can get sports stories from ESPN, FoxSports, Yahoo, AOL just about anywhere. I'll help out with the encyclopedia, i added to ray rice and xavier abidu already but whats with the whole switch up on goals here
Permalink | Reply
DNLLegend
701 days ago
Score 3+-
I don't think it's a switch. It's just an evening out. The vast, vast majority of stuff here is opinion-type... but the encyclopedia is basically empty.

The encyclopedia makes the rest of the site better because it gives some basis to your articles. If you're talking about a player, you can link to him instead of drudging up his entire history -- much like you'd do on any other blog. People can find your articles through Google if they do a search and land on an encyclopedia page because the home page features your articles, not the encyclopedia.

But it's pretty bare right now, ya know?
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
701 days ago
Score 2+-
we need something that ESPN, Foxsports, Yahoo, etc. can't offer, which is History and bios
Permalink
KillingpabloJV Squad
701 days ago
Score 1+-
I'm confused here ladies and gentlemen. I haven't been here that long but I thought this was a place to read and write about sports. Now it appears that it's an encyclopedia area for people to look up stats and player information. That's sort of boring to me. Why not a happy medium? Half and half. People like Manny Stiles who wants to write can write, people like DNL and can play with his Wikia things. Both are happy. Everyone is happy.

What's ArmchairGM? ArmchairGM is the community for sports fans where you rule. Fans like you write and comment on articles and rate and vote on the best and worst things about sports.

Why does Armchair rock? The ArmchairGM sports community is powered by passionate sports fans like yourself. You and your friends know more about the sports world than the so-called "experts."

How much does it cost? ArmchairGM is absolutely free.

We respect your privacy

We are serious about keeping your private information private. We do not disclose your email address to third parties.
Permalink | Reply
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
701 days ago
Score 1+-
You're right about the half and half thing. But the point is that at the moment, is that it's nowhere near half and half. I think snooker is one of the best covered things in the Encyclopedia, personally. But you'll understand by bias... But that said, considering that I am principally the only person that has ever done anything towards it (Romiezzo has helped lately, JuT helped fleetingly), it's pretty sad that I can do better than the thousands of people that could have helped out with the US sport. You can do better than that. :)
Permalink
DNLLegend
701 days ago
Score 2+-
Yep, that's exactly right -- I want a bit more balance.

Right now, we're heavily tilted toward the opinion mill, which is great because we're able to get a lot of goof opinions. A lot of junk, too, but a lot of good ones :)

My concern is that we're only an opinion mill right now -- a place to read and write about sports *happening right now*. Well, what about the rest of it? When I talk about the 2007 Fiesta Bowl (you know, the Oklahoma/Boise State game), something should come up. That game is one of the greatest in BCS history -- and there's nothing there.

So, I picked a couple of projects that would help make our encyclopedia reputable. Both, you may note, are timed to hit in April, as both the NFL Draft and MLB season happen then. With all the people here, even a small amount of help from each of you will make the project easy.

If we can attract attention in April as being a sports resource that includes opinions and reference, we're going to roll through this year as a premier sports site. That's my goal.
Permalink
KillingpabloJV Squad
701 days ago
Score 1+-
I hear what you are saying but this sounds more like a job for the creator of this place and maybe some of the administrators. I'm just being honest but I come here to blow off some steam and go back and forth while I am working on boring stuff. The wikipedia stuff sounds like work to me and rather bland. You have to ask yourself: "Why do people come to armchairgm?". Is it for the wikipedia information or to discuss sports with others? Do you want the recognition and fame and being linked by ESNP.com, yahoosports, etc, or do you want this to be the biggest sports "blog" on the internet? I came here because this site seems to have a lot of posters and it seems like people are always posting. Other sites you wait 2 hours to get a response.
Permalink
DNLLegend
701 days ago
Score 1+-
Well, no one is saying you have to leave :) You're obviously welcome to stay... and I'm glad you like the opinion aspect of the site. I'm sure there are many people out there who would like the encyclopedic aspect, too. Maybe I just have to find them!
Permalink
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
701 days ago
Score 0+-
I think all the administrators help out with the wikifying section of the site, because they need the powers to do some of the more intricate tasks.
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
701 days ago
Score 0+-
that creates a question Dan involving the Moments page. Take for instance, the 2006 Rose Bowl. Should info go there, or should This keep its info?
Permalink
DNLLegend
701 days ago
Score 0+-
Probably redirect the specific to the general?
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
701 days ago
Score 0+-
Are we ditching the ratings? OR should it just be a summary with the info on the general?
Permalink
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
701 days ago
Score 1+-
Since we appear to have digressed to a more general topic, I have a few general things to point out:
  • I have no interest in this particular topic. Say, others felt the same way. Would it be acceptable to aid in another project, such as the ones I have worked on already? They are slightly more manageable.
  • I do think DNL is spot on. This is why I complained about the lack of points going to editing, I felt that that side of the site was being neglected. I think MLB and NFL shouldn't be that hard, since a bot automatically did some of the leg work. Other topics need huge builds, because there isn't a bot.
  • Anybody new to the site will always naturally tend to the article section. It's the most striking part of the site. What is really required for the AGM veterans is help with the wiki side, because most new users will post the articles that we would be anyway.
  • Getting to Wikipedia's standard is easy, it's a copy and paste away. Just remove all the non-sporting wikifications. It shouldn't be too hard to then build it up a bit.
Permalink | Reply
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
701 days ago
Score 1+-
One final thing - it's a great way to learn about a new sport - Just ask Romi.
Permalink
KillingpabloJV Squad
701 days ago
Score 0+-
I'm bored. I'll be back when we start talking sports again. I see your point DNL and Alex Holowczak, but as you pointed out I'm new here and I'm more attracted to the articles. And who really cares anyway? For those who want to help DNL help DNL, if you don't don't. No need to cry over spilt milk. DNL maybe in the future I will help out with your wikification thing, but for now sorry.
Permalink
DNLLegend
701 days ago
Score 1+-
You can absolutely work on other projects. The projects I listed are my goals, and I don't expect them to be everyone's. But I will take all the help I can get! :)
Permalink
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
701 days ago
Score 0+-
That's alright then, because I quite like my projects. :) Also, anyone can do your stuff, in theory, you get US users all the time, and I'm one of the few English that have remained, so I think I'm more valuable in the non-US sport section. That's also why I think Erooster has done a great job. It's a shame Pnatt couldn't have been more useful with Aussie Rules Football.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
701 days ago
Score 1+-
Alex, why am I the only example in this case? jk. Seriously, learning about a new sport and being open minded just makes that sport that much fun. It encourages you to learn more about the sport quicker.
Permalink
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
701 days ago
Score 1+-
You were the one that sprung to mind off the top of my head. Night all.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
701 days ago
Score 1+-
It's almost good morning for me. :P
Permalink
CityhockeyfeverVarsity Captain
701 days ago
Score 0+-
This is a great plan, Dan. What I could do is once the New York Rangers page is set up, I can help work on that. If any of my fellow fans of the Minnesota Wild and Phoenix Coyotes need help, I'll be glad to contribute to those pages as well.
Permalink | Reply
Ccampbell34All-American
701 days ago
Score 1+-
I can do MLB depth charts for pretty much every team if that helps
Permalink | Reply
DNLLegend
701 days ago
Score 1+-
It does. Go ahead!
Permalink
DRE-LOAAA-er
701 days ago
Score 0+-
I'll help in any way I can!
Permalink | Reply
DRE-LOAAA-er
701 days ago
Score 1+-
I'll do what I can on the Mets/Yankees pages as well as any NY teams. I'll also help with the NFL stuff. I've already edited the Mets page and added Gold Gloves to the Awards section.
Permalink | Reply
RomiezzoLegend
701 days ago
Score 0+-
Well, just so that you know, DNL said before that he would definitely prefer helping out on MLB teams than anything else. NFL season is over, NBA and NHL is still going on, and we're a couple months away from Spring Training. This is the best time to start editing/updating/adding stuff on AGM for baseball.
Permalink
Pittsburgh GunnyMajor Leaguer
701 days ago
Score 1+-
I am still plugging away with this Arsenal F.C. :-) I rather like the encyclopedic aspect of this site, one of the main reasons I joined.
Permalink | Reply
DGMurdockIIILittle Leaguer
701 days ago
Score 1+-
While surfing randomly, I came across this Wikipedia Article Checker - http://iceyb...rojects/wac/ , which will check an article for various common mistakes.

Since you just paste the article's code into a text box to check it, it could actually be used with any Media Wiki article, assuming you had the same standards as Wikipedia.

The code is also released under GPL, so if we wanted to, we could change it to conform to our own standards.

What's even neater though, is that since you have to paste the code into a text box, it's just acting on a string variable, so you could probably rig this up to be called when you preview a page.

I realize that Lucky is reluctant to do any PHP hacking, but perhaps we could turn this into a Media Wiki plugin? I have no experience with that myself, but if we're willing to use it, I'd be willing to look into it.

I think that if we were to use this, it could dramatically improve the quality of our articles.
Permalink | Reply
RomiezzoLegend
701 days ago
Score 1+-
Oh, DNL. I didn't catch the ninja thing. I didn't catch that the first time I "read" your article. I SO wanna be a ninja!
Permalink | Reply
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
701 days ago
Score 0+-
Are there any current ninjas? I need to be on the lookout for fear of my life...
Permalink
EroosterMajor Leaguer
701 days ago
Score 1+-
As you know, I am currently working on the CFL. I have a little bit of help, but more could always be used.
Permalink | Reply
DGMurdockIIILittle Leaguer
699 days ago
Score 0+-
we need bettwe Sport wrestling coverage and pro wrestling
Permalink | Reply
Cornfed78Draft Pick
699 days ago
Score 0+-
Working on the Colt Brennan NFL Draft Page.
Permalink | Reply
EstebistecVarsity
699 days ago
Score 0+-
I'm working on an overhaul of the K.C. Chiefs' page for anyone interested. I believe it will also be the first port of an NFL team page to DNL's new format that you now see for the NY Mets. http://www.a..._City_Chiefs
Permalink | Reply
False ProphetAll-Star
697 days ago
Score 0+-
I've been working on the Twins Ballpark page. I'll finish with that today, and hopefully finish Andre Caldwell tomorrow
Permalink | Reply
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Categories: Opinions | Opinions by User DNL | January 7, 2008 | January 2008

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