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I Love...Helmet

16
Vote

by Editoratlegendofcecilioguante

Originally posted here.

"Brick, are you just pointing to things in the office and saying that you love them?"

"I love helmet!"

He's one of the more likable guys in the majors. And it's great to have something new to talk about in the sports landscape. I'm one of those who's staunchly in the "Craig Biggio is a hall-of-famer" camp. His stats are arguably HOF-material on their own merit, regardless of era. He'll finish up with around 3,100 hits, and he's got four gold gloves to his name. Check out a few more of the numbers cited below pulled from Wikipedia :

  • Is the only player in Major League Baseball history with at least 600 doubles, 3,000 hits, 250 homers and 400 steals
  • Led the majors in runs scored in 1995 and 1997 and in doubles in 1998 and 1999
  • In 1998 became the second player to have 50 stolen bases and 50 doubles in the same season. The only other person to accomplish this is Hall of Famer Tris Speaker
  • Holds the National League record for most lead-off home runs in a career with 52. He is 2nd in MLB behind Rickey Henderson (81)
  • Is a 7-Time All Star

His all-time lead in the HBP category, while not HOF criteria, speaks to the way he played the game. Not to go overboard, here, but the guy was the consummate "baseball player." He could play multiple positions and never looked awkward, because he understood the game and was a straight-up ball player. He slid hard, didn't get doubled up, hustled all over the field and did it all the right way.

Now, I didn't live in Houston. He could be the biggest a-hole around. This is just the superficial observation-based opinion of a Northeasterner. But, based on that surface exposure alone, he's the kind of guy you'd want on your team. And if Sosa, McWire and Bond are "punished" by the allegations and doubt that swirls around them, who benefits? How about guys like Craig Biggio? It seems like justice to me.

So, what really immortalizes Biggio? It's the helmet, of course. C'mon...have you owned anything for 20 years? People can do an archeological dig on this thing. Sure, it's a bit disgusting, but I love it. Vlad and Manny have both been rocking their original helmets for quite awhile, but they're not in Biggioland yet and it's questionable whether they'll get there. By the way, did these guys freeze-dry motor oil on their hard hats? What in the...

Anyway, Biggio's helmet should be placed right beside his shrine in the hall. It symbolizes everything he was about. Here's to Craig and all of the crap that's accumulated on that skull-protector over two decades.


Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
MetsJetsDevilsDraft Pick
858 days ago
Score 2+-
I think Biggio is a 1st ballot guy, but I might be in the minority.
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JuTMSY4Legend
858 days ago
Score 3+-
First ballot is stupid...who cares, Hall of famers are hall of famers...but I will say this His case for the best second baseman ever is strong and he is clearly one of the best (arguably better than Morgan and Sandberg)...and certainly the best during his career...
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Baltimoresports247All-American
858 days ago
Score 0+-
He SHOULD be a first ballot HOFer...the question is will those who have the votes allow him to sneak in? I think that they have enough baseball sense to let this guy in the HOF....
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
858 days ago
Score 2+-
He may or may not be a Hall of Famer, but no way in hell is he the best second baseman ever. Rogers Hornsby played 23 seasons with a career .358 average. He didn't get to 3,000 hits (he had 2,930), but he hit .400 three seasons, he hit over .380 in 7 full seasons, he played a good part of his career in the dead ball era but still managed to hit 301 homeruns. He knocked in 1,584 runs, and had a career OBP of .434. He won the Triple Crown in 1922 and 1925. He won the MVP in 1925 and 1929. He won 7 batting titles, is 10th all-time in OPS, he also played every infield position.

Joe Morgan: 10 time All-Star, 2 time MVP, 5 Gold Gloves

Napoleon Lajoie: one of the deadball era's finest hitters. career .338 average, 3,242 hits, 1,599 RBI, 1,504 runs scored, won the Triple Crown in 1901 with an impressive 14 homeruns. Although he only hit 83 career HRs, he finished in the top 10 in homers 9 times, was so good that the Cleveland team he played for was called The Naps.

Biggio might make it into the Hall of Fame. He's got the 3,000 hit mark, career batting average of .282 isn't bad, he's got a lot of steals, the fact that he played catcher might help him, he won a Silver Slugger at Catcher, and 4 more at 2B, 4 Gold Gloves, 7 All-Star bids, but no MVPs, no World series rings. There is no way in hell he is the best 2nd basemen ever. Not even close.
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ASwaffAll-American
858 days ago
Score 0+-
I agree that he's not the best second baseman of all time, and I agree with your case for Rogers Hornsby. A while back I made an all-time all-Texas team, and I was really glad to have Hornsby at second base.


But, I disagree that he's not even close to being the best second baseman of all time. I truly believe he's top 5.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
857 days ago
Score 0+-
If he was such a great second baseman then why did he play so many games at C and CF?
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Kwitt11Varsity Captain
857 days ago
Score 0+-
Catcher is a tougher position than 2B, so he played there for as long as he could. If Chase Utley could catch, the Phillies would move him there in a heartbeat.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
857 days ago
Score 0+-
then why did they move him from Catcher? (We can do this all night...)
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Kwitt11Varsity Captain
857 days ago
Score 0+-
He probably wasn't good enough to be a catcher, but he was good enough to handle 2B. What are we arguing about here?
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KelsdadAll-Star
858 days ago
Score 4+-
There's no difference between second ballot and fifteenth ballot. There's a huge difference between first ballot and the rest. Legends are first ballot, (with the exception of Puckett, he was a sentimental choice). Ripken and Gwynn are the 39th and 40th FG HOFers out of the over 200 players in the Hall. I disagree, Justin. Biggio is a true example of a guy hanging on to reach some certain statistical milestones. He was a good player for a long time, no doubt, but could never be considered a great player. He was never even the best player on his own team. He accomplished alot with his skills and broke his ass every day for 20 years and that's why he's going to Cooperstown, but comparing him to Morgan and Sandberg is disrespectful to their careers.
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JuTMSY4Legend
858 days ago
Score 1+-
Look at their careers...look at the numbers...Biggio is as good as or better than both... I was suprised too...
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JuTMSY4Legend
858 days ago
Score 0+-
Morgan also played 22 years...and was never the best player on that team...ever
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Davis21wylieMVP
858 days ago
Score 2+-
What are you talking about, Morgan was the best player in baseball on multiple occasions (dude won two MVPs, and probably should have won in '73 as well)...
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JuTMSY4Legend
858 days ago
Score 1+-
You mean those Reds teams that had Johnny Bench and Pete Rose?
Permalink
Davis21wylieMVP
858 days ago
Score 2+-
That's exactly what I mean.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
858 days ago
Score 3+-
too many people remember A's and Phillies Joe Morgan. Joe was the gas pedal on the Big Red Machine... and the brake pedal on ESPN Baseball.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
858 days ago
Score 0+-
I would take Rose on my team over Morgan...any day of the week... And Bench, at catcher...ridiculous...
Permalink
Davis21wylieMVP
858 days ago
Score 2+-
Then your team would lose.
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JuTMSY4Legend
858 days ago
Score 1+-
Don't you have some numbers to play with D21Dubs ; - )
Permalink
ASwaffAll-American
858 days ago
Score 0+-
Dude, get off this knocking Biggio trip. Those who truly know baseball know what a phenomenal second baseman he was. I wouldn't agree with making the argument for him being the best all-time, but you can't truly look at his numbers and think he was just okay. You're like the people who saw the last three years of Nolan Ryan's career and concluded he wasn't worthy of the Hall. Biggio put up great numbers, has always been a leader on some good Astros teams, and ONLY wasn't the best player on his team because he played along side a guy who put up some of the most gawdy numbers in the history of the game. Look at Bagwell's career OPS. Totally off the charts. Don't fault Biggio for having a good teammate. It doesn't diminish his talent in the least. And if we limit the "elite" to players who won the World Series and/or won MVPs, you'll be leaving a lot of phenomenal players in the dust. Biggio wasn't good. He was great. Just because you can't remember when he was a 40-50 steal kind of leadoff hitter doesn't mean he wasn't great.
Permalink
ASwaffAll-American
858 days ago
Score 0+-
Oh, by the way, tone it down on the rhetoric just a bit. Honestly - comparing Biggio to two second basemen who have comparable numbers is disrespectful to their careers? Give me a break.
Permalink
JamelAll-American
858 days ago
Score 1+-
Did you know that Biggio had sex with the entire cowboy cheerleading squad of 1998? It's all right there on my fan club site http://www.j...wthread/528/
Permalink
JamelAll-American
858 days ago
Score 1+-
I thought this said "head"- sorry
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
858 days ago
Score 1+-
Whenever you tout achievements like "he led his league in 2Bs and runs scored, twice!" you conjure thoughts like - Tim Raines was a better player than Biggio. (Higher lifetime AVG - also a 7 time all-star that led his league twice in runs scored and once in doubles with over 800 SBs)

Biggio in the Hall makes it reasonable to argue for non-Hall guys like Ray Durham and Derek Jeter and (God forbid) Johnny Damon if he hangs on long enough to get 3,000 hits... ugh.

Biggio may be a great person, but he is NOT and never was an All-Time great baseball PLAYER. Sorry. Accumulated numbers only say what you want them to. Put him in same wing as Mazeroski if he gets in.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
858 days ago
Score 0+-
and (ahem) Raines also got a RING.
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KelsdadAll-Star
858 days ago
Score 2+-
Here we go again, Jeter's not a Hall of Famer? Don't you have to go prepare Elijah Duke's defense or something? I see the Rays game started at 9:30, they down ten runs in the second so you decided to take out your frustrations on the 'Chair?

Ruined an otherwise great comment. Which I voted for, by the way.

Pain in the ass.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
858 days ago
Score 1+-
Yeah... Harold Baines, Will Clark, Don Mattingly, too. I forgot to add how similar Durham's numbers are to Jeter's. Hey, don't worry, Jeets will hang on too long enough to get his 3000th hit as a Tampa Bay Ray... then He's a lock like Biggio is
Permalink
ASwaffAll-American
858 days ago
Score 0+-
Man, you keep putting guys like Ray Durham and Robin Ventura in the same sentence as Biggio, you lose credibility. Seriously Manny, you have no credibility when you make comparisons like that. That's absurd.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
858 days ago
Score -1+-
And people who call Biggio a lock Hall of Famer lose their credibility. You like him, you are really familiar with him. I get it. But he wasn't a great player. He played hard, took lots of HBPs and never got hurt. Nice career, not a Hall of a Career.
Permalink
ASwaffAll-American
858 days ago
Score 1+-
Haha...yeah, he never did anything more than take a lot of HBP without getting hurt. Man, how can you honestly think that sums up his career? You're killing me, Manny.
Permalink
Davis21wylieMVP
858 days ago
Score 1+-
http://www.b...mp;st=career
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
857 days ago
Score 0+-
Thanks for shining a flashlight in the dingy corner of truth there to expose the roaches for what they are, Davis! Kudos!
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
857 days ago
Score 0+-
I wonder what Durham's numbers would look like with a career of Yankees lineups protecting him???
Permalink
Kwitt11Varsity Captain
857 days ago
Score 0+-
I don't really know why Durham and Jeter are good comps...first off, Durham plays 2B, Jeter plays SS...second of all, Jeter has 35 points on Durham in OBP and 25 points in SLG for his career. Plus Jeter's still two years younger, and he doesn't really seem to be starting to decine yet (Durham actually had a career year last season, but he hasn't been good this year). Jeter will reach 3,000 hits easily, and might hit 3500 if he plays into his 40's.
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Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
858 days ago
Score 0+-
One hell of a username!
Permalink | Reply
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
858 days ago
Score 2+-
Reminds me of a place I've been to in Wales called Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.
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KelsdadAll-Star
858 days ago
Score 3+-
Are you kidding? The Reds were a good team and only became great when they added Morgan. Maybe you're right, from a talent aspect he wasn't the best, but all great teams win as much due to intangibles than play on the field. Morgan was the difference on that team, on the field and off.
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Davis21wylieMVP
858 days ago
Score 2+-
And it wasn't just intangibles he brought to the table -- Morgan led the Reds in OPS every year from 1973 to 1976, and won the NL gold glove (and, for the most part, deservedly so) every year from 1973 to 1977. He was probably the best player in baseball throughout that period.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
858 days ago
Score 1+-
Kelsdad is right! Joe Morgan was what everyone tries to make Derek Jeter out to be...
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JuTMSY4Legend
858 days ago
Score 0+-
And Biggio has better stats then morgan in everything except OBP, Slugging, Steals, and triples...

Biggio has a .985 career fielding %...Morgan's is .981... Biggio also played 2 less years...

I'm not trying to make him out to be god...but Morgan and Sandberg are comparable hall of famers...that's my point
Permalink
Davis21wylieMVP
858 days ago
Score 1+-
"And Biggio has better stats then morgan in everything except OBP, Slugging..." Oh, you mean the two most important hitting stats in baseball?
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JuTMSY4Legend
858 days ago
Score 1+-
The most important stat in baseball is wins...
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Davis21wylieMVP
857 days ago
Score 1+-
And guess which stats correlate best with wins...
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JuTMSY4Legend
857 days ago
Score 2+-
Losses have the highest correlation with wins...
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Davis21wylieMVP
857 days ago
Score 0+-
Huh?
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JuTMSY4Legend
857 days ago
Score 1+-
Given a 162 game season consistantly (or any number for that matter...consistantly) losses would have the highest correlation to wins...

I'm just being a jackass...

I also hate sabremetrics...what ever happen to the days when hitting .300 meant something
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
857 days ago
Score 1+-
"The most important stat is wins" - then Biggio wasn't very important often, was he?
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
857 days ago
Score 0+-
and JuT forgets the 2002 All-Star game - ties means everyone loses - there's your freeking correlation!
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Kwitt11Varsity Captain
857 days ago
Score 1+-
JuT, Biggio played in a completely offense-dominated era, whereas Morgan played in the pitching-dominated late '60s and the relatively neutral 70s. Looking at era-adjusted stats like OPS+ is much more helpful (Morgan = 132, Biggio = 113).
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JamelAll-American
858 days ago
Score 0+-
I started up the Biggio fan club over at jaythejoke a long time ago- I sing the B.I.G.G.I.O song to my daughter all the time http://www.j...wthread/528/
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JuTMSY4Legend
858 days ago
Score 3+-
You know what's great...

This is one of the better and most recent conversations that we've had, in a long while that

  1. isn't lame
  2. isn't about banning people or being an admin
  3. is about the good stuff in the game
Permalink | Reply
JamelAll-American
857 days ago
Score 0+-
Jew Man I can ruin this thread at any time- don't tempt me
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TyduffyRed-Shirting
857 days ago
Score 2+-
Anyone who compares Biggio to Morgan is a fool. Morgan kills him in three categories .OPS, MVPs, and Rings. You can keep your precious doubles. Biggio is a nice guy and a good player. But, I believe I wrote about this before. If he is black and has Sheffield's personality, is he considered a lock for the HOF?
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
857 days ago
Score 0+-
Has anyone ever considered Biggio as a steroid user? He was tight with Caminiti and Bagwell is pretty suspicious, too...
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
857 days ago
Score 0+-
Where are you going with this "if he was black" exactly?
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
857 days ago
Score 1+-
If Biggio did steroids and HGH, he only did so to increase the probability of getting hit in the head while at the plate.
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JamelAll-American
857 days ago
Score 0+-
He DOES have a pretty big melon- that's probably why his helmet is so big- so he could GROW into it- my momma bought (stole) extra big shoes for me when I was little- Biggio's on drugs!!! Wow, I never would have thought- however, one of the 1998 Cowboy cheerleaders did say he had little balls
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EditoratlegendofcecilioguanteJV Squad
857 days ago
Score 0+-
would agree that a Morgan/Biggio comparison is a bit overboard. Biggio was never an MVP-caliber player. All-Star, yes. MVP, not really. This is one of those times where the stats don't tell the whole story. Not sure about the Sheffield comment. So, you're saying if he wasn't a scrappy, white, team player 2B, but an African-American hothead who is consistently spewing crap would he be heading for the HOF?
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
857 days ago
Score 0+-
If you put Biggio in based on career productivity from a 2B, then Jeff Kent is the best 2B ever... Biggio's numbers are illusory. Biggio may compare to great players, but that doesn't make him great. It's like saying Puff Daddy is a better musician than the Beatles because his song was a number one hit longer than theirs...
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Kwitt11Varsity Captain
857 days ago
Score 1+-
How the hell can numbers possibly be "illusory"? His career numbers tell you everything that he did on the baseball field. Your subjective judgements of Biggio are most likely much more "illusory" than his stats.
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TyduffyRed-Shirting
857 days ago
Score 1+-
Biggio did have a power surge at the end of his career...though I would think that that might have been more to do with a ballpark shift.
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
857 days ago
Score 0+-
another farcity in the armor of the Biggio Worshippers. Nice guy. So was Fred McGriff. And Fred led BOTH leagues in something other than whoop-de-damn-do doubles... (Oh, and a ring)
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
857 days ago
Score 2+-
Biggio needs to find a better dental hygienist.
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
857 days ago
Score 0+-
you know what, Thanks TB - I've been meaning to say this forever - So does Beckman! Dude gets $250 mil and has teeth so crooked he can chew corn on the cob through a chain link fence!!!
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JuTMSY4Legend
857 days ago
Score 2+-
Do i even have to say it... BRITISH
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
857 days ago
Score 1+-
"Lisa, let's take a look at this..."

(opens the Great Big Book of British Smiles)

2 "Lisa needs braces" references in one day!
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
857 days ago
Score 1+-
For a dude that probably dyes his pubes twice weekly, you would think that Beckham would visit an orthodontist.
Permalink
InsanMajor Leaguer
857 days ago
Score 0+-
Braces hurt like a bitch. No point in getting them at 30 years old.
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
857 days ago
Score 1+-
Actually it is a hell of a lot better and more advanced than it used to be 10-15 years ago.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
857 days ago
Score 2+-
All Great players have shining moments - Willie Mays, the catch; Barry Bonds - not nailing Sid Bream at Home, Roger Clemens - Jeez, how many? What is Biggio's shining moment? What image will we have of him? Either none, or a dirty Helmet. That's it. No postseason heroics. No MVP season, bland, dull, empty. Jeez, even Mazeroski had a moment.
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
857 days ago
Score 2+-
Biggio has made a career out of killing the Cubs. Biggest moment? Probably deliberately getting hit in the head with a fastball over and over again.
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JamelAll-American
857 days ago
Score 0+-
That takes practice Tyrone- still that's my new strategy for the Bonds situation- just keep beaning him- again record safe- everyone happy- hell how much do you want to beat that ratings will sky rocket
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
857 days ago
Score 0+-
He's only two HBPs behind Hughie Jennings All-Time... he'd better get leanin' like a cholo, elbows out side to side
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TyduffyRed-Shirting
857 days ago
Score 2+-
How can you say that someone made a career out of killing the Cubs? One would expect most players to perform well against the Cubs.
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
857 days ago
Score 0+-
Hah! (point to you). Let's just say Biggio is the long standing Cub killer for the Houston Astros, fair?
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
857 days ago
Score 0+-
Long Standing does not a Hall of Fame career make.
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
857 days ago
Score 0+-
I have thought long and hard, and written a very lengthy argument both for and against Biggio being inducted into Cooperstown. I made my conclusion, and would like to hear youz guyzes conclusions as well. The article will be put up on this site tomorrow.
Permalink | Reply
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