Hot Stove: Phillies Acquire Lidge

HUGE! As in a HUGE mistake at this point in the offseason?

care to defend your point?

I'd like to point out that i spent the better part of my afternoon in a management meeting doodling on a note pad and trying to rationalize this trade (talk myself into it being a good move for the phils)...I'm not there yet...

anyways bball...you gotta have more than that ; - )

Ok, I guess I'll expand :P

Myers does not give the Phillies any special advantage by being used in the bullpen, so he should have been moved back to the rotation regardless. Lidge is not going to be a cost-effective closer for very long, so they could have gone after a cheaper, longer lasting solution in the bullpen.

The Phillies are giving up two decent minor-leaguers who would have provided the Phillies good production at WELL below market price. Now, they have to re-sign Rowand.

If this were the end of the offseason, and the Phils NEEDED to make this move, that would be one thing, but there is still so much time they could have used to search the market for a cheaper closer.

Just dwell on the great hitters you have... this team has never been about pitching and probably will never be in the foreseeable future. Any addition of talented pitching is a help, and thats what Lidge represents.

Yeah, I'm hearing 14 mil a year which is way too much... He's a 10 mil...maybe 11 mil a year kinda guy... - I do wonder who will pay that much...Ken Williams has deep pockets, but there's a reason I'm thinking I want A-Rod in Chi-town...

Ed Wade and Aaron Rowand never made contact in Philadelphia...Pat Gillick made the thome trade that acquired him...

I really think Wade's interest was in Bourne anyways...he's an exciting player and a better hitter than people want to give him credit for...

I know that. All I'm saying is that he seems to keep wanting to dip into Philly. And while I never thought he'd make a BIG push for Rowand, the fact that half of the free agents he's interested in come from Philly makes me wonder if he has any vision outside of the world with which he's familiar.

He's not done mentally. For those who watched and really knew him, his decline started way before the Pujols homer. He put up great numbers that season, but his control was off. His walks and wild pitches were up. It really got bad with a couple of weeks to go in the season when the Astros grabbed a late lead against the Cubs, only to have Lidge fall apart and blow it. That was really the beginning, not the Pujols homer. He still throws hard, and he's still got one of the most explosive sliders in the game. I firmly believe that a good pitching coach can get him back on track.

I agree...although I don't believe they gave up too much

Christof and I have differed on Rowand and Bourne for the better part of a year...I like Rowand and preferred the bourne trade (in general) and resigning of Rowand while I think Chris wanted us to Move Bourne to CF as a starter and let rowand walk...

Correct Chris?

My other rational is that its going to be easier to get a top (or good) CF than a top (or good) pitcher...With Hunter, Jones and Rowand available, you have to think the first one signed will set the bar...with the other going above (Jones or Hunter) and rowand falling below...

Phillies have had success with pitchers with control issues Aswaff - J.C. Romero comes to mind (and is a priority to resign)

I totally agree with you on the difficulty of getting a good center fielder. Astros fans are well aware of those struggles, having watched Lance Berkman, Craig Biggio, Chris Burke, Eric Bruntlett and Jason Lane in center the last few years. Even Pence, for all his praise, isn't that great a defender out there. He saves himself with his speed sometimes, but he doesn't get the best jump in the world, and he takes some seriously strange routes to the ball sometimes. So, while I'm happy the Astros have a real center fielder, I'm still annoyed that they basically traded Taveras, Buchholz, Hirsh, Lidge and Bruntlett to get another Taveras.

I should also clarify that when I said Lidge could do well with a good pitching coach, I wasn't making any statements about Philly's pitching situation. I don't even know who their pitching coach is. I was just pointing out that I don't think Lidge is anywhere close to done, and that the Astros could have saved him if they hadn't brought in a pitching coach who'd been a front office guy the year before. That was just dumb.

Oh I agree about Lidge (Rather, I hope you're right)... I'm just pointing out that the Phillies have done well with wild pitchers before and perhaps they are thinking the same can be done about lidge as romero

I hope so, too. I wish him luck just like I did with Lane and Ensberg when the Astros inexplicably gave up on them. I like these guys and feel bad about the breaks the Astros have given them. They used to be one of the most player-friendly organizations in baseball, but then Garner and Purpura took them in a different direction. There was no loyalty whatsoever, and they repeatedly screwed guys after giving them minimal chances. And not just players. After the Astros pitching staff posted the best ERA in major league baseball, they fired pitching coach Jim Hickey, who had been in the organization for like 12 years. They have no scruples whatsoever anymore. I just hope Cecil Cooper and Ed Wade are able to turn that around.

Speaking from experience... It should be interesting...