armchairgm
all sports, all you
+ Add Friends
You are not logged-in.
Sign Up - Log In
Main Page
Sports
Write
Articles
Hot Links
Images
Meet People
Fun
Explore
MLB - NFL - NBA - NHL - College Basketball - College Football - Soccer - Nascar - Other
Article - Locker Room Discussion
All Articles - New Articles - Today's Articles
Submit a Link - Approve Links
Picture Game - Ratings - Polls - Pick Game - Quiz Game - Spring Silliness
Random Page - Random Image - Random Fan
Edit
Page history Discuss pageWhat links here

Hanley Who?

20
Vote

by Brendan.Canney


Hanley Ramirez.
Nice shades.
Nice shades.
The 2006 NL Rookie of the Year has quietly become the NL's best shortstop, and one could say even the best in baseball. With shortstops like Jose Reyes, Jimmy Rollins, and Edgar Renteria, being considered the best shortstop in the NL is no easy feat to accomplish. And like I said, one could argue he's the best in all of baseball, which would mean he would be better than Derek Jeter. If you're a New York Yankees fan you can either ignore that statement or just concede and accept that Ramirez is the best at his position.

The 23-year old Dominican is currently sporting the best BA (.341) among shortstops and places 4th overall in Major League Baseball. During his current 10 game hitting streak Hanley has hit 4 HRs, driven in 9 RBIs, scored 9 Rs, and collected 7 SBs. He leads the Florida Marlins in Runs, BA, and SBs. Without the overweight but very talented Miguel Cabrera, Ramirez would be carrying the team. Not only is he consistent (batted over .300 in every month except May (.279)), he is the definition of clutch. In close and late situations Ramirez is hitting .391, with 4HRs and 15RBIs. With men in scoring position and 2 outs he is hitting .311 and driven in 11RBIs. He however has done this all season to little or no applause because unfortunately he is stuck in America's wang, also known as Florida. Both Florida baseball teams, the Tampa Bay Devil Rays and the Florida Marlins, are the only teams with under 1 million total attendance. The Marlins average only 16,909 fans a game and that's only slightly less worse than the last place team, you guessed it, the Devil Rays.

He does however have one glaring weakness, and that is his fielding. That can be taught and learned though. And with this guys love for the game (wanted to play and finish winter ball on his Dominican team after injuring his arm), that shouldn't too much of a stretch. Now I am certainly not implying anyone who knows their baseball doesn't know about Hanley Ramirez, but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that everyone would be talking about this kid a lot more if he wasn't stuck in "hell".



Brought to you by current Florida resident and East Coast Bias contributor, Brendan Canney. Don't forget to get your SportsCenter anchors spayed and neutered.


Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
TehLokiVarsity Captain
840 days ago
Score -3+-
Far from best. Best is Reyes then Rollins in the NL. With jeter the best overall. Talk to me in 3 years
Permalink | Reply
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 2+-
But he has a better BA than both of them, 2nd to Rollins in runs scored, tied with Rollins for HRs, 2nd to Reyes in SBs, and sports the best SLG% and OPS out of all of them.
Permalink
JimmurroSoccer Kid
840 days ago
Score 0+-
he's talking about right now, not 3 years from now.
Permalink
HappyskinnyAll-American
840 days ago
Score 1+-
Yeah, but this is only Hanley's second year in the bigs. Give him some time before you are annointing him the best shortstop in the game over guys who have been doing it for a while. Thats like saying after the 2000 season that Richard Hidalgo was the best outfielder in the league. Now take a look at him. I know that Hanley has always been a very highly rated prospect, and has played very well in his first two season, but give him some time.
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 2+-
While I do agree with you in regards to Rollins and Jeter, who have been grinding for years now, Jose Reyes has only completed 2 full seasons of baseball yet people have anointed him the best shortstop in New York...
Permalink
Tmil42AAA-er
840 days ago
Score 2+-
These three (Rollins, Reyes, Ramirez)are very close, talent-wise. If you want power, Rollins and Ramirez are tops. If you want a guy to get on base, Reyes and Ramirez are your guys. If you want a stolen base, Reyes is your man. If you need defense, Reyes is the man for that again. It all depends on what you need from your shortstop.
Permalink | Reply
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 2+-
I can't be "on the fence" about anything involving sports but you made a valid point.
Permalink
Tmil42AAA-er
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Thanks. I've actually put a lot of thought into this. It's crazy that 4 teams in the NL East have amazing shortstops.
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 0+-
The NL in general has great SS! Ramirez, Reyes, Rollins, Renteria, Tulowitzki, and Hardy.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 1+-
It's funny how some people actually, at one point in time, added JJ Hardy to those three shortstops...
Permalink | Reply
HappyskinnyAll-American
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Well, look at the post above. Brendan just named Hardy a "great SS!" I'm not sure if he's seen him play lately.
Permalink | Reply
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 2+-
.274BA 20 HRs 66 RBIs All in his first full season as a starter. Looks pretty good to me. I'm sure he'll come out of his post all star slump. And while I did state that Hardy was a great NL SS, I didn't in my article put him in the league that Rollins, Reyes, or Ramirez are in.
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Or Renteria.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 1+-
He has done better as of late, you're right, but I thought you were placing him on the same level with Reyes, Ramirez, and Rollins.
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 3+-
Not at all. I probably should have reserved the word "great" and substituted it with "solid".
Permalink
HappyskinnyAll-American
840 days ago
Score 0+-
I think Hardy has like 4 or 5 home runs since late May, talk about a drop off. His stats since June 1st are absolutely horrendous. I don't think he's going to be snapping out of it.
Permalink
HappyskinnyAll-American
840 days ago
Score 0+-
You can't even call him solid now. He was solid for 2 months...of his career. I realize he is young, but he has been absolutely awful. I know, he was on my fantasy team.
Permalink
JustanzoPee Wee
840 days ago
Score 0+-
We'll see.
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 0+-
I feel your pain my friend. He was also on mine, key word being was.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 1+-
In June and July, he did pretty bad. 18-82 (.220) in June, with 3 homers and only 5 RBIs. In July, he was 21-87 (.241) with no homers and 9 RBIs. At one point in time, in the same month, he dropped .020 in 17 games. If you want stats from April-May 31st, he had 15 of his 20 HRs already, 51 of his 66 RBIs, and a .304 AVG, which dropped down .030 since then...
Permalink
Tmil42AAA-er
840 days ago
Score 2+-
Steve Phillips most likely thinks J.J. Hardy is an MVP candidate. "Well, he had a great April! I suck at my job!"
Permalink | Reply
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 0+-
He made a hell of a GM.
Permalink
Tmil42AAA-er
840 days ago
Score 1+-
I know...he was my GM for a couple years...it was awesome. I miss Benny Agbayani as my left fielder.
Permalink
Anonymous Fanatic #1
839 days ago
Score 0+-
Philips awesome GM? Sarcasm I hope. Tenure started good and went bad. Then afterwards you wonder if it started good because of him or he was just fortunate/lucky for a while.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 3+-
Oh, and BTW, I kinda think Edgar Renteria is underrated as well, both defensively and offensively. Check out the numbers. .336 AVG. 11 HRs, 53 RBIs, 11 SBs, .392 OBP, .487 SLG (remember he only has 11 HRs). He's pretty dang good, and I'd put him over Rollins if I was evaluating...
Permalink | Reply
HappyskinnyAll-American
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Yeah, I'd put him up there as long as he isn't playing in Boston.
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 0+-
No argument here. Without Renteria the Braves would not be in the position they are in now, especially considering the statistical fall off from Andruw Jones.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 1+-
That's true. Both Jones and McCann dropped, and Chipper and Renteria are rising up. With Renteria on the DL, they have to rely on their pitching now, or they need McCann and Jones to fire up soon.
Permalink
Tmil42AAA-er
840 days ago
Score 1+-
I bet the Braves wish Andruw's weight had fallen as much as his batting average.
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 0+-
If I'm not mistaken Andruw Jones is currently out with an elbow injury right?
Permalink
Twins15Varsity Captain
840 days ago
Score 1+-
Hanley is the most underrated player in the MLB... he would probably be my NL MVP right now. It's a crime how little respect he gets for how freakin' good he is.
Permalink | Reply
HappyskinnyAll-American
840 days ago
Score 1+-
He's not an MVP right now. You shouldn't be able to win the MVP if your team doesn't make the playoffs, or at least should be making a run at it.
Permalink
Twins15Varsity Captain
840 days ago
Score 1+-
MVP is an individual award... I have a hard time punishing a guy in an award for the best player in the league just because the team's owner doesn't want to spend more than $20 million on player salaries.
Permalink
HappyskinnyAll-American
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Also, by baseball people I don't think he is underrated. He was the Red Sox number one prospect for a long time, and now people now he has turned in to a really good shortstop so far. The only reason he is underrated in casual fans minds is because he plays in Florida, so they don't know him.
Permalink
Tmil42AAA-er
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Well, unless there are no other clear-cut candidates. Feisty Prince Fielder has to be the front-runner for that award right now. Either that or Murky Matt Holliday, Crazy Chase Utley, or Loser Larry Jones.
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 0+-
The exception being Ryan Howard who won last year when the Mets ran away with the NL East right?
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Exactly. I gotta agree with Happyskinny here. If you mention Hanley Ramirez to anyone, they'd probably say that he's really good. They just don't mention because, like you said, he's playing for a team that no one give recognition to..
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 0+-
No one in Florida cares about the Marlins...believe me.,
Permalink
Twins15Varsity Captain
840 days ago
Score 0+-
OK, fair points... I just look at the media, and coverage of Jose Reyes to Hanley Ramirez is probably like 10:1. And yeah, you guys are right in that it is all because of the markets that they play in, but I at least think Ramirez is undercovered. And while more hardcore fans (like I assume most people on here are) know how good Hanley is, I'm not sure that the casual fan who reads the papers and watches highlights knows how good he is. That is because he plays for Florida, but that doesn't make him less underrated, or maybe underappreciated.
Permalink
Tmil42AAA-er
840 days ago
Score 1+-
I believe you that no one in Florida cares about the Marlins. All you have to do is look how empty the stadium is. It's weird, when I play MLB 2K7, the stands are always full in Florida, and I get very confused.
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Girardi luckily escaped.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
It's not the Marlins, it's Florida. Look at how empty the stadiums are even if they're contenders. For the D-Rays, it's even worse, of course, but other fans come in and root for their teams. Like the Red Sox vs. DRays games. Yankees DRays games. I'm sitting there like... OK, are the Nasty Boys the only fans of the Devil Rays in Tropicana?
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 0+-
I went to see the Devil Rays when they played a series in Orlando at the Disney Sports Complex. Got to see Scott Kazmir close up and got to heckle Sammy.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
NICE!
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Cheapest MLB tickets I ever bought...
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
You haven't been to Canada then...
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Cannot say I have.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Canadian money. It mixes everything up dude...
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 0+-
I'm going to have to take your word for it.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
I'd prefer a Florida game over a Canada game though.. :)
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score -1+-
These are my NL rankings for shortstops (the ones that aren't listed I could care less about):
  1. Jose Reyes
  2. Hanley Ramirez
  3. Edgar Renteria
  4. Jimmy Rollins
  5. JJ Hardy
  6. Troy Tulowitzki
  7. David Eckstein
  8. Rafael Furcal
  9. Alex Gonzalez
  10. Omar Vizquel
  11. Khalil Greene
  12. Jack Wilson
Permalink | Reply
HappyskinnyAll-American
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Yeah, I pretty much agree with that list.
Permalink
Twins15Varsity Captain
840 days ago
Score 1+-
I would probably go something like (based on this year)

1. Hanley Ramirez 2. Jose Reyes 3. Edgar Renteria 4. Jimmy Rollins 5. Troy Tulowitski 6. JJ Hardy 7. Alex Gonzalez 8. Ryan Theriot (does he count?) 9. Rafael Furcal 10. Khalil Greene 11. David Eckstein

12. Jack Wilson
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
That's pretty good as well, but ehh.. Ryan Theriot. I didn't put him but yeah you can. I put Jose Reyes first because he does what a leadoff hitter does best, and that's get on base. Hanley has good power numbers, but that isn't what he should be doing. With Miguel Cabrera on his team he should just make contact (which he is good at which why I put him #2) with the ball, so Miguel Cabrera can drive him in. JJ Hardy, on the other hand, isn't a leadoff hitter. He's in the middle somewhere, and he used to do good driving in runs and getting on base when he needed to. Why is David Eckstein so low though? .300+ average, and he gets on base, and is a really good leadoff hitter.
Permalink
HappyskinnyAll-American
840 days ago
Score 0+-
I agree, even though I love Greene because he's a Clemson guy, at this point I'd say Eckstein has gotta be in front of him.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Would you put him over Rafael Furcal, Happyskinny? He gets on base more than Rafael Furcal does...
Permalink
HappyskinnyAll-American
840 days ago
Score 0+-
They are pretty close, but I'll take Eckstein if I had to pick between the two.
Permalink
Twins15Varsity Captain
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Romiezzo.. Hanley Ramirez gets on base at a higher rate than Jose Reyes does. So if that's your explanation, you're basically punishing Hanley Ramirez because he hits for more power. I guess I don't understand that either.
Permalink
Twins15Varsity Captain
840 days ago
Score 0+-
And Eckstein could probably go anywhere from like 8-11 for me... it's a pretty fluid list. He's not bad, but he hits for no power and isn't that great defensively. But all of those guys are bunched together and I just did pretty quick research for them.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score -2+-
Well, I don't really like leadoff hitters who hit for power, which is why I didn't like it when Jimmy Rollins hit 5 homers in a week in the opening week of the season. Hanley DOES hit for power, and he gets on base more, but in my opinion, I think that Hanley should hit for contact if he's a leadoff hitter, don't you think? I wouldn't say I'm punishing him, but I just think Jose Reyes is a better shortstop because he is more of a "leadoff hitter" than Hanley, PLUS, like you said earlier, Hanley has 16 errors so far in the season. Jose Reyes' 8. Overall, I just think Jose is better at his defensive and offensive position than Hanley is, even though Hanley does have a higher OBP than Reyes.
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 1+-
Isn't that what GM's, coaches, and even fans look at when looking for a good leadoff guy? A high OBP? Even though you said you don't want to seem like you're punishing Ramirez for being a power hitter,you are. Wouldn't you rather be up 1-0 in the 1st inning rather than getting a single then 3 consecutive outs? Just a hypothetical question.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score -1+-
Eckstein has a .290 AVG, and he hits for no power because he's a LEADOFF HITTER. Leadoff hitters should not be judged by how many home runs they hit. I base leadoff hitters on batting average, on base percentage, runs scored, usually stolen bases, and sometimes hits. He's played in only 76 games, but has a .290 AVG, .338 OBP, and 36 runs scored (it is low because the Cardinals aren't the Cardinals they have been over the past 5 or so years). He is very aggresive and puts the ball in play. He doesn't strike out much (15 so far in the season) and has walked only 16 times.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
You're right, I admit it. You can hit a home run here and there, but 20+ homers for a leadoff guy is getting too far, unless you're someone like AROD, who's known for it. And yes, I'd rather see a guy get on base than see him hit it over. If he doesn't come around, then I blame Uggla and Cabrera for not bringing him around. That's their job, and he should do his...
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 1+-
Hanley though is statistically higher than Reyes in every category you stated besides SB (Ramirez does have 37 though).
Permalink
Twins15Varsity Captain
840 days ago
Score 2+-
I certainly can see an argument that Reyes is a better player than Ramirez, because he is better defensively and steals more bases at a good rate. And I know what you're saying w/r/t a leadoff hitter, I just feel that everyone's job in the lineup is to create the most runs. Getting on base is a large part of that... if you can hit for power in addition to getting on base, well, I say more power to you.

Also, keep in mind that Ramirez has over 160 ABs as a #3 hitter. Though curiously he has been a lot better in the leadoff spot. His OBP is actually .432 when he leads off.

Let me also mention that I pay absolutely no attention to the stat of runs scored... it's far more of a function of the rest of the team. Hypothetically speaking, let's say there are 2 guys, who both get on base at the same rate. Player A has better teammates hitting behind him, which drive him in more, which means he scores more runs. That doesn't make him better than Player B at scoring runs, it just means he has better hitters behind him knocking him in.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Defense, dude. Defense. .983-.964 (FP), errors (8-16), Assists (318-269). They're both good offensively, Hanley is better than Reyes with runs scored by 5 runs, and if Reyes hit for power (which he did last year), he'd probably do better than Ramirez in that category. I'll give credit to him for the average and OBP, but I can't give him credit to his defense...
Permalink
Twins15Varsity Captain
840 days ago
Score 1+-
Right, and that's why I said that there's certainly an arguement to be made that Reyes might be the better player than Ramirez. But as a leadoff hitter? I'll take the guy that gets on base more AND hits for more power, even if that is not something a leadoff hitter traditionally does. Rickey Henderson (I believe) has the most leadoff homers in the history of the MLB... that fact that he led off with homers in those games is a lot more valuable than if he had led off with a single, even if leadoff men aren't traditionally power guys.
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Are you constituting that defense has something to do with a palayer being a better lead off hitter or were you replying to Twins?
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
I see what you mean. Hanley Ramirez does put up good numbers, and I could be wrong, now that you've laid out the stats of Hanley as a leadoff hitter. I'm just gonna say that it's a tough call because of the runs scored, BA, and OBP vs. SBs, and better defense. Wouldn't a shortstop best be known for his defense though, if you've got 2 guys that are both good offensively? Look at Omar Vizquel and Ozzie Smith. They are known most for their defense, but look at the offensive numbers they've produced: 2400+ hits for both of them, and top 2 in double plays. Everyone cares about the offense, but no one cares as much about the defense.
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Like I said in the article, I totally agree with anyone who retorts that Ramirez is bad defensively. It's something he really needs to work on, and at the ripe age of 23, he certainly has a lot of time doesn't he?
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
The reason why Henderson was a good leadoff hitter was because he stole bases and got on base. 2nd most walks in a career and was very patient at the plate. Ichiro is another good example. He didn't get on base as much as Henderson, but he still puts the ball in play.

I don't know why we got so much into depth about leadoff hitters when this is about shorstops, which goes to Brendan's question. I'm not referring to leadoff hitters, I'm talking about a defensive position. people underrate how well people play defensively. As long as someone hits well, it doesn't matter how bad they are in the NL at defense, they'll still put a good hitter in the field somewhere.

Shortstops are probably best known for the defense they play, and Jose Reyes definitely does better than Ramirez in that category. He might get on base and hit for more power than Ramirez, but I think that Reyes is a better SHORTSTOP, not hitter than Ramirez.
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 0+-
If this reaches 100 comments I think I will retire from Armchair.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Would you have said that Ramirez was better than Reyes last year? Look at Reyes stats compared to Ramirez's last year:

Reyes: .300, 19 HRs, 81 RBIs, 64 SBs, .354 OBP, .487 SLG Ramirez: .292, 17 HRs, 59 RBIs, 51 SBs, .353 OBP, .480 SLG

...same defense. Reyes played one extra full season than Ramirez before him...
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
And at 24, Reyes already has good defense....
Permalink
HappyskinnyAll-American
840 days ago
Score 0+-
yeah your right. Thats something that takes a lot of guys a long time to learn. A lot of guys never get good defensively.
Permalink
Kwitt11Varsity Captain
839 days ago
Score 0+-
Romeizzo, you have your cause and effect wrong.

You say: David Eckstein is a leadoff hitter => he doesn't hit for power.

In actuality, it is this: David Eckstein doesn't hit for power => he is a leadoff hitter.
Permalink
HappyskinnyAll-American
840 days ago
Score 0+-
MVP...Most Valuable PLayer. I consider value to be getting your team to the playoffs. Just like A Rod should not have won it in 2003. He was the best player, but not the most valuable one.
Permalink | Reply
HappyskinnyAll-American
840 days ago
Score 0+-
My post was meant to go in the above argument. Sorry.
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 1+-
We can finally agree on something.
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 0+-
No worries, I understood what you were referring to.
Permalink
Twins15Varsity Captain
840 days ago
Score 1+-
Most Valuable Player meaning the guy that was the best player. This argument could go on and on with no solution, but I'll just say IMO by definition the best player is the most valuable. How can you be more valuable than someone who is better than you? Again, I have a hard time punishing a guy that's been really good just because (in Hanley's case) the owner doesn't spend money to put a winning team out there. And I know there are different schools of thought here, and I respect the different opinion... I just feel that the best player is ALWAYS the most valuable player, regardless of how good the rest of the team is.
Permalink
HappyskinnyAll-American
840 days ago
Score 3+-
Yeah, this argument could go on forever. I respect your opinion as well, but if you want to give a great player on a lousy team an award, then give him the Hank Aaron or Silver Slugger award.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 3+-
Valuable, in my eyes, always goes to a playoff contending team, whether they're in or not. For example, let's say the Marlins are a qualifying team for the playoffs. Hanley Ramirez has 30 homers, 100 RBIs, .330 AVG, and 40 SBs coming into September (I'm not saying that's going to happen). If he gets injured, and the Marlins fall 11 more games back from the Mets, that shows how VALUABLE he is. On the other hand, there's the 2003 AROD example. You can hit 80 home runs, and hit 200 RBIs, and have a .400 AVG, but if your team is in last place with a 35-127 WL column, he isn't that valuable...
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Exactly. The Silver Slugger and Hank Aaron awards are for something, aren't they. Or no, they're worthless now since Barry Bonds broke the home run record, and the MVP is the same thing as the Silver Slugger Award now...
Permalink
HappyskinnyAll-American
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Exactly.
Permalink
Twins15Varsity Captain
840 days ago
Score 1+-
Again, it depends on how you look at it. What if without A-Rod the Rangers go 0-162? Sure, they're bad either way, but A-Rod was still pretty darn valuable. The fact that he's valuable for a lesser team doesn't make him any less valuable, it just makes the other players on the team worse. Again, I respect the other way of thinking here, but in my mind the MVP is an INDIVIDUAL award... whether or not the other players on the team are any good shouldn't have a bearing on who gets an individual award.
Permalink
Twins15Varsity Captain
840 days ago
Score 1+-
As for the Silver Slugger/Hank Aaron awards, does anyone really pay attention to those? I couldn't tell you who won those last year.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 1+-
I do. So they get applauded by one person in this world...
Permalink
Silencer76AAA-er
840 days ago
Score 1+-
Let's look even deeper into Ramirez's splits:

.196 (9 for 46, 2 HR, 4 RBI, 11 K) against the Mets

I see .348, 2 HR 6 RBI in late inning close game situations and that is according to the Marlins website.

He also is hitting a buck 60 with runners on 1st and 2nd (4 for 25)....250 in 29 day games this season, and over .300 every month since June? There only was June, July and 12 days of August. He'll still help you out chasing bad pitches (71 Ks), and 16 Es at short don't help either.

There are a slew of guys that would get my MVP vote over Ramirez. You have to go back to 1987 to find a MVP in the National League on a team with a losing record, and that was the Hawk Andre Dawson.

IF Ramirez were to come close to the Hawk's #s that year (.287, 49 HR, 137 RBI, 11 SB, 24 2B, 2 3B, plus an All Star appearance and a Silver Slugger), then I would consider giving him a vote. The kid needs to prove himself over an extended period to get the nod however.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Good research. He's not good defensively, and he may not be clutch, but he can help you secure victories, and not blow 4 run leads...
Permalink
Silencer76AAA-er
840 days ago
Score 0+-
True, but securing victories and preventing a team from blowing four run leads doesn't make an MVP, it makes a guy who wants to make sure he still has a job instead of bagging groceries like Kurt Warner was.
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 0+-
He is hitting .304 and .320 respectively however against the Braves and Phillies. Also, what I meant to say and will edit after this, he has hit over .300 in every month except May (.279). Also, against the 19 teams he has played, he is batting .286 or better against 15 of them.
Permalink
Twins15Varsity Captain
840 days ago
Score 2+-
C'mon, you're just cherry picking stats this year. There's certainly fine arguments for other players there, but you can find fault with anyone's game. The fact that he has struggled in 10 or so games against the Mets (small sample size there) doesn't undo the fact that he is 1st in the NL in BA and top 10 in OPS as a SS. And I have a hard time seeing the relevence of him hitting poorly in 25 ABs with runners on first and second... sure, that's bad, but it's one situation and the sample size is really small. In the same situation last year he batted .368. You can't make any conclusions based on that either way.
Permalink
Kwitt11Varsity Captain
839 days ago
Score 0+-
Backing up Twins15 on this one...Let's say Reyes ends up with a .300 BA, a .400 OBP, etc...an MVP-caliber season. And, because this is a hypothetical discussion, let's say Ramirez bests Reyes in every category by 5%, including defense. But the Mets win the division, while the Marlins finish 15 games back. Who is the MVP? If you switch the two players, the Mets will win more games with Hanley than with Reyes, and the Fish will win fewer games with Reyes than with Hanley. So how can you argue that Reyes is more valuable than Ramirez?
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 0+-
A shame really an award tributed to Hank Aaron is given and no one knows who received it.
Permalink | Reply
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
I know it is. But look at the bright side: They're aren't cancelling it and making a Barry Bonds award...
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Would that go to the player who used the most amount of steroids or the player with the biggest ego over the course of a season?
Permalink | Reply
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Most amount of steroids. The biggest ego for a season would probably be Mark McGwire, wouldn't it?
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 1+-
I think Jose Canseco wins out.
Permalink | Reply
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
OH YEAH!! What about an intersports award, for all sports? The Mike Tyson award...
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 0+-
"I'll eat your children!"
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
I'mma plant a bullet in his Mu#*&%in skull..
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
99
Permalink | Reply
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
100. Retire, Brenda. Muahahahhha!!
Permalink
HappyskinnyAll-American
840 days ago
Score 0+-
That is a lot of comments for it being this late. Well its 4:12 on the East Coast.
Permalink | Reply
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 1+-
Well, it's 11:15 here in the MIDDLE EAST coast. ;)
Permalink
HappyskinnyAll-American
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Hahah.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Man, they all left, AND I WAS JUST GETTING STARTED!!
Permalink
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Sorry pal, I had to get to bed eventually. 4am is my bed time.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Why is it that everytime we talk about Hanley Ramirez, we have HUGE debates like this?
Permalink | Reply
HappyskinnyAll-American
840 days ago
Score 0+-
I dunno. This was a good one though. 100 plus comments. Wow.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Yeah, I know. Tell me about. I was kinda stubborn, as you can see. I thought Jose Reyes was better than Hanley. I loved this debate because for once, no one minused anyone for someone who had a different opinion than someone else...
Permalink
NejoshiDiv-I Stud
840 days ago
Score 0+-
We get huge debates because Jose Reyes and Hanley Ramirez continue to shock us and make amazing plays on the baseball field.
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
You guys realize, that if A-Rod were still at short, this wouldn't be a debate...
Permalink | Reply
Anonymous Fanatic #2
840 days ago
Score 1+-
First, let me begin by saying how annoying and old it's getting to mention Cabrera's weight every time he's written about. What a shame that a guy who's the best hitter in the NL this season (Does anyone want to argue with me on this one?) is minimized because he was a little overweight earlier this season. Now, onto Hanley... I'm a Marlins fan (yes, we do exist), and I've seen nearly every Marlins' game so far this season. And yes, Hanley is the best shortstop this year in the NL, period. Let's put it this way: If Hanley and Cabrera played in NY, they'd be gods. HanRam leads Reyes in every offensive category except stolen bases and triples. Defensively, he has improved significantly the last couple of months. You can make an argument that Hanley and Cabs are the 2 most productive players in the NL this season (They're the top 2 players in the NL in Runs Created). Both deserve MVP consideration (Is it their fault Florida's missing 3/5 of their starting pitching?)
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Uhhh...the phillies are also missing 3/5 of their rotation...Myers is now in the pen (and missed time), and Garcia and lieber...and yet their still in contention (umlike the fish)... If we took either cabrera or Ramirez out, then how good would this team (like chase utley)...
Permalink
Anonymous Fanatic #2
840 days ago
Score 1+-
I forgot to add: The Marlins have the 2nd-lowest salary in baseball. But exactly my point, JuTMSY4. Take either Cabs or Hanley out of the Marlins' lineup, and Florida is horrible. Does this not signify how much value a player has for his team? And isn't that what the MVP award is all about? I am of the opinion that players on playoff-contending teams deserve to be looked at first for MVP consideration. But if no one stands out (like A-Rod in the AL), do you go with the less productive player on a playoff team or a superior player on a non-contender?
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
840 days ago
Score 0+-
Is it MVP of the team or MVP of the league? That's a debate for another time...Its great players who will their team to win...

Winning has to hold at least part of it...playoffs is one thing, being a non-contender is another. Cabrera is probably the best third baseman in the NL...but he's got no help and plays on a team that ultimately is going no where until they pny up a little cash...he's gone as soon as he can...

One player drastically reducing the competitiveness of a team because he's absent only goes to prove how much the team truly sucks...
Permalink
Yakob878MVP
839 days ago
Score 1+-
the marlins really got their end of the deal when they got him from the red sox
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
839 days ago
Score 0+-
Anabal sanchez also threw a no-hitter last year...heh
Permalink
Fishfan9703JV Squad
839 days ago
Score 0+-
Not only does hanley ramirez have better numbers than jose reyes,look at where hanley ramirez is at in his career and look at where jose reyes was at in that point in his career compare the numbers
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
839 days ago
Score 0+-
Reyes has one more year of MLB experience? So is hanley as good this year as Reyes was last year?
Permalink
TehLokiVarsity Captain
839 days ago
Score -3+-
I don't undertsna dhow anyone can put a 2 year player as the best NL (and possibly) the best MLB shortstop. If that's the case. Ryan howard is the best first baseman. I know it's not true. I'll say it anyway. Start thinking people. thank you
Permalink | Reply
Brendan.CanneyDiv-I Stud
839 days ago
Score 0+-
You really support your arguments well...
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
839 days ago
Score 0+-
I saw him argue his way out of a paperbag once...it was impressive
Permalink
Anonymous Fanatic #2
839 days ago
Score 0+-
THIS season, Hanley is the best shortstop.
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
839 days ago
Score 2+-
Alright... So i guess the best shortstop isn't going to be in the playoffs then...*sigh*
Permalink
Anonymous Fanatic #2
838 days ago
Score 0+-
Yeah, and that's HanRam's fault, isn't it?
Permalink | Reply
Anonymous Fanatic #3
836 days ago
Score 1+-
A Red Sox scout says in espn "Hanley Ramirez is the best all around player in baseball after Alex Rodriguez." That is saying something. Reyes, Rollins, & Renteria are not mentioned in that category period. He is a superstar. Reyes isn't a great defensive player either. They are six months apart in age and they will both improve defensively. Now & in the future I & most would take HanRam over Reyes. Reyes will always be a valuable leadoff hitter. Never the A-Rod clone HanRam is becoming in a FOOTBALL STADIUM! The Marlins want him to bat third and put Miguel Cabrera in the clean up spot. You can't say that about any other short stop in the Majors. Ken Griffey Jr. (the best player in the 90's by far) says he would pick him over anyone in the league to build a team around. Stop with the money crap cause he's not arbitration eligible for a few years. He & Miggy are the highest rated VORP & WORP (Value/Wins Over Replacement Player) in the NL. The leaders in the AL - A-Rod & Ordonez.You hear that? The two best players in the National League play the same side of the infield on the same small market team that doesn't have a stadium, but 2 World Series Championships in their young existence.
Permalink | Reply
Add your Comment
ArmchairGM welcomes all comments. If you don't want to be anonymous, Register or Login. It's free


Retrieved from "http://armchairgm.wikia.com/Hanley_Who%3F"

This page was last modified 14:28, 13 August 2007. Content is available under the GFDL.

Contribute

ArmchairGM's pages can be edited.
Is this page incomplete? Is there anything wrong?
Change it!

Edit this page Discuss this page Page history

Recent contributors to this page

The following people recently contributed to this article.

Embed this on your site

Main Page About Special Pages Help Terms of Use Advertise