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Golden Bat

13
Vote

by user Redsoxfaithful38

There used to be a time when the Gold Glove Award meant something. When it was an honor to receive it. What happened during the course of baseball history to change this and alter its value? I can tell you that 1992 was the last time this award meant something. Why, you may ask. Ozzie Smith won the award as a SS for the St. Louis Cardinals. What made this year the final year? Is there anybody who can honestly tell me that the Gold Glove is based solely on fielding. If you can, you are lying. You know something is wrong when the best fielding shortstop in all of baseball has never won ONE Gold Glove. I grantee very few of you can name him. If you can you are one of the select few. His name is Alex Gonzalez. This award has just lost so much value. If you look at the winners each year, almost all of them are top hitters at there position. They need to find a solution to this award. You can tell me Andruw Jones is a great fielder and you would be absolutely right, but hitting wins him that award. They need to find a new formula to solve this problem. Somehow combine fielding percentage with a subjective vote. The voting is required because there are those players that cover so much ground to get to a ball but just can't make the play and get called for an error, while the people who can't even get to the ball do not get an error.

I once read about an idea called the plus/minus system. It occurs when someone charts every time a ball is put in play. Players get a point for making a play on an event that at least one other player did not make. They also lose a point if they do not make a play that at least one other player did. It is a very interesting concept and I would be interested in seeing who has the most points.

Here is a list of the plus/minus winners for 2006:

  • P-Johan Santana
  • 1B-Albert Pujols
  • 2B-Jose Valentin
  • 3B-Brandon Inge
  • SS-Adam Everett
  • LF-Dave Roberts
  • CF-Corey Patterson
  • RF-Randy Winn

Yes this system may be flawed, but still it is better than our present system. There is only one played on this list that won a Gold Glove. If you don't know this you obviously have not payed attention. Yes, it is Albert Pujols. Why? Because he hits. That is what the Gold Glove has become.


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Awrigh01All-Star
896 days ago
Score 2+-
I think your right. I remember when Palmiero one a Gold Glove while he was on Texas. He played as a DH for most of the games . . . it was ridiculous.
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InsanMajor Leaguer
896 days ago
Score 1+-
Gonzalez has a .958 fielding percentage. You're going to tell me thats good??? His career fielding percentage is .969 Not to mention he's fifth in the league with most errors.
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TylersaltAll-Star
895 days ago
Score 3+-
Yeah, because shortstops in general have lower fielding percentages than other players because they get so many opportunities. Fielding percentage is overrated as a measure of defensive skill, if not entirely worthless.
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Redsoxfaithful38Waterboy
896 days ago
Score 0+-
did you happen to watch him last year in his years with Florida. I watched the guy like everyday. He was amazing last year and Jeter got it and he had twice as many errors.
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InsanMajor Leaguer
896 days ago
Score 0+-
He was with the Sox last year...
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Redsoxfaithful38Waterboy
896 days ago
Score 0+-
yes and ...
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InsanMajor Leaguer
896 days ago
Score 0+-
I'm pointing out that he played for the Sox, not the Marlins like you said. He played for the Marlins the year before. In Boston he had a .985 fielding percentage and in last year at Florida he had a .974 fielding percentage. With Boston he didn't qualify for the award and with Florida in 2005, he finished 15th in fielding percentage (Vizquel, who won the award, finished 1st), and had 8 more errors than him.
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Redsoxfaithful38Waterboy
895 days ago
Score 0+-
I know he was with the Marlins. Yes Vizquel is a great fielding shortstop. I just saw him play very well consistently through the years. But I understand what you are saying
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JuTMSY4Legend
896 days ago
Score 0+-
Its an interesting point...my thoughts:

In order to stay in an everyday lineup, realistically, you've got to have a decent bat unless you're a good fielder or the rest of your team has great bats (for example, Abe Nunez gets starts at 3rd for the phils, basically because of Chase Utley). Secondly, range has a lot to do with it...its one thing to be able to cover some territory effectively and another to stretch the territory out and get a glove on balls...if you've ever played, you know that sometimes you really gotta reach to make a play and its clearly harder to make a play that way (does this make sense?), i know there's some stat about range...and while jeter makes errors, i think he has a big range...anyone else know or provide a better explanation?

Is the golden glove slightly offensively driven...yeah, but you gotta have a respectable bat to get on the field, for one and star power drives awards...golden gloves fit it...Agon didn't play a lot and IMO, he kinda sucked...
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AngelaSJV Squad
895 days ago
Score 2+-
According to Hardball Times, Jeter's range actually isn't all that great.
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JuTMSY4Legend
895 days ago
Score 0+-
yeah, i really didn't know... but jeter wasn't my point...
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AngelaSJV Squad
895 days ago
Score 0+-
Yeah, I just like linking that page. :)
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
896 days ago
Score 1+-
How about a Silver Glove???
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JuTMSY4Legend
896 days ago
Score 2+-
Regardless, its a pain in the ass to field with either...
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AngelaSJV Squad
895 days ago
Score 1+-
I think the problem is the effect a player's reputation has on gold glove voting. Players get good reputations for being good defenders and for being good hitters, and it seems like the cumulative reputation is what gets guys votes. It's pretty much the same famous guys getting votes year after year, whether they're famous for hitting or defense.

Another hypothesis is that bad defensive moves are more excusable from a player who is not frustrating the audience on the other side of the ball. People are less upset by poor defense if they think the player is probably going to make up the difference defensively. (This is fun to watch with notoriously bad (or "bad") defenders, like Jhonny Peralta. People complain about his defense a lot more when he's not hitting, even though he makes the same defensive mistakes all the time.) Given our tendency to heavily value offense, as well as our tendency to magnify single anecdotal observations and let them cloud our beliefs about a player (especially since we can't seem to agree on an objective metric for defense), a player who is more offensively gifted might be less likely to give Gold Glove voters a bad taste in their mouths.

wow. so that was pretty much a novel. Sorry.
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Redsoxfaithful38Waterboy
895 days ago
Score 1+-
I think these are all great points. I just felt that their are some flaws in the Gold Glove. Don't get me wrong, Jeter is a great fielder, I just think he isn't the best fielder at shortstop. He never won a Gold Glove there till A-rod moved. They are both good fielders, but A-rod won because of his offense and thats wrong.
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Kwitt11Varsity Captain
895 days ago
Score 1+-
What? A-Rod was a great defender when he was at SS. Any statistic will tell you that. His hitting may have given him some recognition in the voters' minds, but he was pretty deserving of the Gold Gloves he won. (Jeter did not deserve any of his, however.)
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KelsdadAll-Star
895 days ago
Score 0+-
Defense in the old days meant something. I had a chance a few months ago to participate in a MLB Alumni event, one of the guys I got to meet was Bobby Knoop, a 1960's second baseman with the Angels and I think White Sox, among others. He was a career .236 hitter yet played nine seasons as a regular because of his defense. A three time gold glove winner, Knoop held several season fielding records for second baseman which have since been broken by Ryne Sandberg and Roberto Alomar, and I believe he still holds the season double play record, I would have to check. And arguably the greatest third baseman in history, at least defensively, had a .247 career average and he's not in Cooperstown because of his bat. Awards now are popularity contests, just like the All-Star voting.
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
895 days ago
Score 0+-
The Gold Glove has definitely been downgraded. Jeter, Bernie Williams are great Yankees but just average fielders at best. The solution is to look at range factor and fielding percentage then anectodotal evidence. For example, even Willie randolph has mentioned that Jeter has no more than average range. Kelsdad should realize that because of increased scoring, teams think they have to stack their lineups instead of playing all-glove no bat guys like Knoop.
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KelsdadAll-Star
895 days ago
Score 0+-
You think one of the reasons for increased scoring might be defenders with lack of range? AF should realize pitching and defense win games.
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Niteowl049AAA-er
895 days ago
Score 0+-
It seems like certain players get a reputation for good fielding whether deserved or not and next thing you know they win Gold Gloves several years in a row. Liked the point Red Sox Faithful made about players with great range reach balls that players with less range wouldn't reach and wind up making errors forcing a throw or bobbling a ball while they are off balance.
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RomiezzoLegend
895 days ago
Score 0+-
Good topic. Yeah, the Gold Glove is not worth what it used to be. You know who got overlooked during his career? Mike Lowell. When he played for the Marlins back when he was in the NL, Scott Rolen won all the GG awards for third base, and now in the AL, Eric Chavez is winning all the awards. Don't get me wrong, 12 errors so far in the season is NOT that great, but before this season, in his first 1100 games, he beat Brooks Robinson in the least errors made by a 3B, by a landslide as well (104-68; 68 being for Mike Lowell). Mike Lowell is also known for his range, but for some reason this season, Lowell has been having some trouble this year when it comes to errors. Lowell also has a .975 Fielding Percentage (including the 12 errors he's made in 2007), which beats Robinson's .971, and Rolen's .967 AND Chavez's .968. I hate to be considered biased because I'm talking about a player from the Sawx, but it's the truth; those are the stats. All I can say is this about Lowell:

At least he won the 2006 Best Fielder Award from the People's perspective

And now, I could care less about the Gold Gloves. All I do is just look at the results that an (usually) undeserving player gets on a baseball card; how many errors he gets, and his Fielding %age, as well as other things that contribute to the Gold Glove Award.
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WizardmanRed-Shirting
894 days ago
Score 0+-
You could argue Omar Vizquel as a bright spot then, from a purist perspective. 11 time gold glove winner, won it the past two years, he's definitely not a power hitter at all. (His most powerful season, 2002, he didn't win a gold glove in either, go figure). Still, Ozzie won 13 Gold Gloves, so that's not too bad.
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