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F*** The World (CUP)

12
Vote

by user Marcvsxiv

I searched for it, and cannot seem to find an opinion here about of f-awful soccer is and how stupid is this world cup.

There isn't much to add on top of http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/384qgmke.asp, but I'll pepper in a few more notes

(a) One thing an american sports fan is going immediately miss when watching soccer (besides, of course, the chick-in-bikini commercials) are (relavent) statistics. The two most frequently posted statistics seemed to be the number of appearence a player made for the national team and the national team's historical record in this or that circumstance. As if what france in in nineteen dickerty two tells me something about the game I am watching. If you are really, really lucky and pay close attention, you may catch a time of possesion number at some point during the game (as if I care how much time or the other team took passing the ball around the backfield, and to and from the "keeper")

(b) Given that we idolize athletes who shrug off injury -- Kirk Gibson, Donavan McNabb et al -- its odd to watch a sport in which players seem to be supposed to pretend to be injured.

(c) The whole learn-to-use-a-frucking-stop-watch thing.

(d) Finally, a comment on the broader context. This is, of course, one of those opportunities for Americans to bash the silly europeans and for europeans to, once again, confuse themselves with "the world" (see for example http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=E1_SDPSVJD ).

Which I wouldn't care about except I'm still bitter that they took baseball out of the olympics for not being "international" enough. But baseball compares rather favorably to soccer. Certainly, world class baseball players are a more diverse lot then world class soccer players.

(e) It is often said that the World Cup is a metaphor for international war. It is probably more true that soccer is a metaphor for, or a re-enactment of, colonialism. It is basically only played by europeans and their former colonial subjects. And for whatever reasons, it seems that, with an exception or two, the formerly subjugated never stand a chance.





Date

Fri 07/07/06, 8:12 am EST


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ThecrookedcapAll-Star
1278 days ago
Score 6+-
Not only idiotic, but factually incorrect too.
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Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
That's because football doesn't keep hundreds of statistics like baseball does. Frankly, no football watcher or player cares. They just want to be entertained by the game.
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Davis21wylieMVP
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
The Actim Index would be cool, though, if they'd ever explain the methodology...
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
1278 days ago
Score 2+-
Yes, that's certainly an opinion! +
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1278 days ago
Score -1+-
Great article - I appreciate that it had stuff I didn't expect to see
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1278 days ago
Score -4+-
and I'm ALWAYS down with the F***ing stars!!! LONG LIVE THE 1ST F***ING AMENDMENT!!!
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
1278 days ago
Score -4+-
You can't hit someone with a soccer ball like you can a baseball bat! another reason to LOVE America!!! USA! USA! USA!
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MarcvsxivSoccer Kid
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
Oh come now -- you they don't wear cups in soccer, right? And they do wear cleats, eh? So that Wayne Rooney?? You don't have that in baseball.
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ThecrookedcapAll-Star
1278 days ago
Score 2+-
The most idiotic statement is that "world class baseball players are a more diverse lot then world class soccer players." Um...the best baseball players come from North and Latin America. The best soccer players come from all the continents (My top 10 would have players from Europe, South America and Africa). Especially given that one finalist is represented my a multicultural group of people of European, Afro-Caribbean, and North African backgrounds.
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Anonymous Fanatic #2
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
It's not really fair to give France credit for having "Afro-Carribean" and "North African" players on its team and then claim that MLB has only North and Latin American players. What are Cuba and the DR is not Afro Carribean?? And don't forget the huge coming influx of baseball talent from Asia.
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ThecrookedcapAll-Star
1278 days ago
Score 1+-
There's lot of Asian players in the top flights over soccer, oplaying with teams like Manchester United, Bayern Munich, Celtic. Soccer players come from a larger group of backgrounds.
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Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
1278 days ago
Score -2+-
Every country in the world has a football team. I don't think San Marino has a baseball team...
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Sayhey-rodSoccer Kid
1278 days ago
Score 3+-
http://www.i...anmarino.htm
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Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
Now if only they had something other than an address, and a "play international baseball" logo on their page, they'd be getting somewhere. Go on, try somewhere else... Malta perhaps? Liechtenstein? Andorra? All three have football teams...
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MetsJetsDevilsDraft Pick
1278 days ago
Score 3+-
You gotta admit it was pretty cool when Ghana's star player (who plays regularly in the Israeli League)waived the Israeli flag after their surprising victory over the Czech Republic.
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Sayhey-rodSoccer Kid
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
Go Mabs! http://www.b...llmalta.org/
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Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
I don't see Liechtenstein or Andorra at least...
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MarcvsxivSoccer Kid
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
The proof of the diversity of talent is in what happens when you play internationally. The final four in a soccer tourney is pretty much always going to be 75% european. In any baseball equivalent, you are going to have a lot more variety.
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Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
Cuba, Japan, United States and probably some other Latin American country is 75%, so that argument is a bit faulty.
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MarcvsxivSoccer Kid
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
There were 16 teams in the WBC http://en.wi...ball_Classic. Any of the top 8 (basically excluding the europeans and china) could have won it.
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Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
The last four were South Korea, Japan, Cuba and Puerto Rico. A 50-50 between N&C America and Asia. That can easily happen in soccer. Argentina & Brazil usually get to a Semi Final. South Korea and Brazil made it to the last 4 in 2002. It was 3-1 to Europe in 1998. 1994 was another 3-1 Europe. Baseball may have more variety at the peak, but whereas over 200 countries have football teams, I'd find it hard to believe that more than 100 have baseball teams.
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MarcvsxivSoccer Kid
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
That shows how well you know your own sport. Argentina and Brazil have made it to the semifinals together exactly once. I guess if you don't want to allow numbers to get in the way of your enjoyment...
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Patrickburke1980All-American
1278 days ago
Score 1+-
why such a hateful article?
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ASwaffAll-American
1278 days ago
Score 1+-
Hateful, offensive, stupid, ignorant...I know we like to allow varied opinions within this forum, but seriously, is there any way we could get certain articles that degrade the site pulled down?
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MarcvsxivSoccer Kid
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
To Alex, re: That's because football doesn't keep hundreds of statistics like baseball does. Frankly, no football watcher or player cares. They just want to be entertained by the game.

Thats just the point the weekly standard makes. We are used to sports that have a point, a narrative, an arc, if you will. Statistics, numbers, are what gives what goes on on the field context and meaning. Its what makes baseball (which is otherwise as boring as soccer) interesting.

And if you "just want to be entertained by the game", you ought to be watching basketball. Unlike soccer, things happen in basketball.
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Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
But football has tradition over here. Every Saturday, hundreds of grounds all over the country are filled to capacity watching it. It's our national game, the game we love. Whereas basketball has barely scratched the surface. The only statistics we truly care about are Wins, Losses, Draws, Goals (For and Against) and Points. Football is a simple game - the easiest of all games to play - all you need is a ball. That's why Siera Leone has a football team - it can afford a football, but not a baseball bat and ball, basepads etc. Football is meant to be a simple game, that doesn't need statistics to over complicate it.
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MarcvsxivSoccer Kid
1278 days ago
Score 1+-
Thats the knub of it. You guys have built this whole culture around this game. But its all much ado about nothing. The game is, as you say, simple. The weekly standard, less sympatheticly, called it pointless. An american, not part of that culture, is going to look at it in disbelief wondering "All that?? Over that?????!"
Permalink
AndersedJV Squad
1278 days ago
Score -1+-
Frankly, who cares what the weekly standard says about sports?
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MarcvsxivSoccer Kid
1278 days ago
Score 1+-
To Alex re: Go on, try somewhere else... Malta perhaps? Liechtenstein? Andorra? All three have football teams...


You've just illustrated my point about europeans confusing themselves with the world. Your examples of "countries in the world" all seem to come up European! Yes, it is, indeed, clear, that europeans do not play baseball. It is furtherly clear that on this account, they do not consider baseball an International Sport. But it is european solipsim at work here.

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Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
1278 days ago
Score -1+-
Alright, they were just the smallest countries I could think of at the time! Try Lesotho. Nigeria perhaps. Er... Rwanda, Reunion. There are African countries with International Football teams. I can't think of an Asian nation obscure enough, but try Yemen. South America... try Argentina. Oceania, try the Solomon Islands, or Tonga. Both of which have football teams.
Permalink
FornelliTee-Baller
1278 days ago
Score 1+-
Alex those countries don't have adequate plumbing, let alone baseball teams.
Permalink
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
But they have football teams! That's my point.
Permalink
MarcvsxivSoccer Kid
1278 days ago
Score 4+-
To ASwaff, re is there any way we could get certain articles that degrade the site pulled down?


careful what you wish for. It seems to me that all this fawning over soccer degrades the site. Without actual numbers as a ground, conversations about soccer degenerate into "ohhh-isn't-he-beautiful??!". This of course has a place on the internet -- and there is nothing wrong with it -- but it degenerates a sports site

Its also predictable that, with apparently one exception, its not like you folk can even justify yourselves. Its not like you can respond to any of the arguments presented with anything more intelligent then "shut-up!"

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Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
As opposed to your faultless explanation...
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Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
I think this is ideal for a showdown...
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MarcvsxivSoccer Kid
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
Thats the sound of my glove hitting your face!! Bring it on!
Permalink
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
Ok, tomorrow. I'll set it up though, and you can have first whack. The title will be "The globalisation of Baseball and Soccer." Agreed?
Permalink
MarcvsxivSoccer Kid
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
Oh come now, that narrows it rather heavily and skews it in your corner. After all, it was one of many arguments -- far from the thrust -- and all I claimed was "baseball compares rather favorably to soccer".

How about "Does soccer suck?", or perhaps, it be about the weekly standard opinion, where you critique it and I defend it.

Permalink
MarcvsxivSoccer Kid
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
Also, tommorow I am out -- has to be another day
Permalink
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
No probs - The page is faulty anyway - look at it on the homepage!
Permalink
Awrigh01All-Star
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
I fixed the show down page. You should be able to set it up. Small bug in the code, sorry for the inconvenience.
Permalink
Sayhey-rodSoccer Kid
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
When it comes down to it, does any sport make sense in the eyes of these authors? I mean, just because you use your hands and/or a stick to move the ball, that makes it more credible?
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Sayhey-rodSoccer Kid
1278 days ago
Score 1+-
And I love the arguement that soccer can never catch on because it is low scoring, while in NHL a goalie is revered for keeping the puck out of its net and an NFL team like the Ravens is lauded and it's strategy duplicated because it is so efficient at keeping oppsosing offenses out of the end zone. So 'average american sports fan' doesn't mind a team that wins not due to offense, but due to Ray Lewis scoring them defensive touchdowns or due to a good place kicker. Idiotic, the more I think about the arguement.
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Sayhey-rodSoccer Kid
1278 days ago
Score 1+-
Regarding (e), US is a former colony of England, is it not. So how does that support your arguement.
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Patrickburke1980All-American
1278 days ago
Score 1+-
remember when the US rebelled and kicked the crap out of england in the war for american independence? that was awesome.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
ohhh touche...btw...if you really wanna go that far back, i believe that portions of the current USA were once, spanish, French, Portugues and Russian. The english are really only responsible for the northeast...oh, and we won that little war thingy...twice...
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MarcvsxivSoccer Kid
1277 days ago
Score 0+-
Unlike most of africa and asia, the US wasn't still a colony of a european power when soccer began spreading (end of the 1800s into the early-mid 1900s).
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DRE-LOAAA-er
1278 days ago
Score 2+-
I cannot help but feel that if the U.S were playing in the World Cup final, you'd be singing a whole different tune. You've even said yourself you can't find any opinion about how awful soccer and the World Cup is. You're in the minority, my friend.
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SteaksammichRed-Shirting
1278 days ago
Score -2+-
Anyone who hates on soccer gets a vote from me....even if he does come off sounding like an idiot.
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UfgatorsDiv-I Stud
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
I propose a showdown between alex and marcs...that is, if what we read on here isnt already a showdown
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UfgatorsDiv-I Stud
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
oh nevermind, its been suggested. ill be watching it though!
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Jgov05All-American
1278 days ago
Score 1+-
I actually agree with the first point about limited statistics. Stats can really make following a sport more interesting, I spend more time looking up stats about baseball than actually watching it. This brings up another point: lack of fantasy teams. You can't really make fantasy soccer very entertaining, and fantasy sports have really increased sports interest. So while I disagree with the tone of the article, the writer did bring up some interesting points.
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Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
1278 days ago
Score -1+-
I think fantasy soccer sites do exist. They just aren't used as we are not so fanatical about it.
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WrightsmyboyTee-Baller
1278 days ago
Score 0+-
He can't hate on soccer all he wants, he can be a ignorant country-centric conservative all he wants, because whether he likes it or not soccer is still the most popular sport throughout the world and he can't change that
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MarcvsxivSoccer Kid
1277 days ago
Score 1+-
I love those arguments. As if I am supposed to love soccer for no other reason then the fact that the *whole* world, evidentally, loves soccer. And I am some sort of xenophobic hick if I don't.

If thinking for myself makes me a conservative, well, then...

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Anonymous Fanatic #3
1274 days ago
Score -1+-
good god what an idiot. football is the greatest game in the world. how can you compare it to baseball?
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