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December 13, 2007: Dark Day for Baseball

16
Vote

by Niteowl049


December 13th was the darkest day for baseball since 1921 when the Black Sox trial was held in a Chicago courtroom. Yesterday Senator George Mitchell finally released the long awaited report he had been compiling for over a year and a half.

To me the biggest revelation was that Roger Clemens was included on the list. Of course he has denied using steroids just like he denied it when Jason Grimsley first mentioned his name as a steroids user. It is strange that only Barry Bonds is mentioned more in the report than Clemens if Clemens is truly not guilty of using steroids.

My personal opinion is that the player's union and the owners share the blame for the escalation of the steroids problem. Bud Selig more than any one person deserves the blame for ignoring the problem. It may have been a combination of him wanting to help his fellow owners line their pockets as fans poured into the stadiums to see their beefed up steroids laced home run heroes hit balls over fence that would have previously been long outs and him not wanting to rock the boat with the player's union.

I think Selig and Fehr both need to hand in their resignations for their part in the proliferation of steroids in major league baseball. Both men acted stubbornly protecting their interests as the owners were counting their money while player's union saw the players on steroids winning more than their share of MVP awards and the higher salaries that went along with the upward spiral in their home run totals.

Fehr scared the players into not cooperating with the Mitchell investigators even though he may not have told them not to cooperate in so many words. He scared them by telling them they may face legal consequences if they talked to Mitchell investigators.

David Justice is one of the surprise names on the list along with Fernando Vina an ESPN analyst for Baseball Tonight. I was also surprised to see Mo Vaughn and Rondell White on he list.

It would be interesting to know the year that the players purchased or used drugs to enhance their performance. Todd Hundley may be one of the earlier users of drugs as he hit 15 home runs and drove in 51 runs in 1995 then his numbers spiked to 41 home runs and 112 runs batted in 1996.

Brian Roberts had hit 12 home runs in four seasons before hitting 18 home runs in 2005 and about a third of his lifetime home runs were hit in that one season of his seven year career.

Yesterday was not part of the dream that Abner Doubleday envisioned for baseball when he invented the sport in Elihu Phinney's cow pasture in Cooperstown, New York in 1839 one hundred sixty eight years ago.

Hopefully, baseball will go on from this lowpoint to being the sport it was before steroids became an easy way to win most valuable player awards and hit mammoth home runs. The effect of steroids on pitchers is less noticeable as they seem to be more susceptible to injury since steroids weaken connective tissue.

Now we will wait and see how Selig handles disciplining players on this list. I doubt he will suspend all current players whose names are on the list all at once so it won't disrupt the first 15 days of the season.

Hot Stove News

Adam Everett who became expendable after the Astros acquired Miguel Tejada and his steroids problems from the Baltimore Orioles has signed a one year contract with the Minnesota Twins. Everett will add stellar defense to the shortstop position for the Twins but his offensive shortcomings will not help the Twins. In 220 at bats he only drew 14 walks for the Astros. His .232 batting average, .281 on base percentage and .318 slugging percentage will land him in the bottom of the batting order. Tejada will be a huge upgrade offensively for the Astros over the numbers that Everett posted.

Kazuo Fukumori who was born in Miyazaki, Japan and played for the Tohuku Rakuten Golden Eagles in Japan last season has signed with the Rangers for $3 million for a two year contract. Fukumori was 4-2 last season for the Golden Eagles with a 4.75 ERA.

Brewers have made some moves to clear up the logjam of outfielders by letting Kevin Mench become a free agent and sending Laynce Nix to their Triple A farm club. This should open up a spot so Anthony Gwynn can play everyday....Philles have lost their centerfielder Aaron Rowand to free agency as he signs with the Giants....Rangers non tendered Akinori Otsuka in a move which makes no sense. Otsuka pitched effectively despite losing his closer job to newly named steroid user Eric Gagne. He had an ERA of 2.51 and allowed no home runs in 2007. Two years ago he had 32 saves for the Rangers.


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Pittsburgh GunnyMajor Leaguer
747 days ago
Score 1+-
I used to really enjoy baseball. The sport lost me though when the player strike occured in 1994. Now baseball exists with this luxury tax thing which is nothing more than a welfare system for some teams. The steroids thing is another black eye but I think if they were this prevalent in baseball I wonder how wide spread they are in other pro leagues.
Permalink | Reply
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
747 days ago
Score 3+-
Major League Baseball* Since Day One.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
747 days ago
Score 2+-
Abner Doubleday? You're kidding right? If he invented baseball, I invented cold fusion.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
747 days ago
Score 2+-
The games will go on! The only thing tht changed yesterday was nothing. Knowing about something today that you didn't know yesterday doesn't change the fact that we already KNEW all about it...
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
747 days ago
Score 2+-
Oh and I bet there's been players in the leagues since the 70's using steroids (Brian Downing, for instance). And all you haughty "I can't believe they used enhancing drugs" people - go back to watching your football with your head in the sand.
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
747 days ago
Score 1+-
Nobody looked like a bigger idiot out of yesterday's ordeal than Bud Selig. What a jackass.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
747 days ago
Score 2+-
Where have you been since 1992? He hasn't gotten any worse...
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
747 days ago
Score 3+-
Now, now....

Really, to tell the press that "I haven't read the report" is just beyond damn stupid.

About that suggestion of yours concerning Peter Gammons....
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
747 days ago
Score 3+-
"This is a call to action" - No, dipshit - getting called in front of Congress might have been a hint that this was coming. He's useless and the owners LOVE him for it. You know they just sit there on their fat pockets and giggle every time he has a press conference...
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
747 days ago
Score 1+-
George Mitchell should've recommended a federal investigation into Selig's office concerning participating in a conspiracy.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
747 days ago
Score 3+-
Ummm... George Mitchell IS PART of said conspiracy. Why else would they have picked such an esteemed diplomat/Senator with baseball experience?

If baseball has done anything well since it's inception it's shoot itself in the foot by making bad problems as glaring as possible then "fix" these problems with pomp and circumstancial sweeping of things under the rug.

I've said it a million times before - if you used baseball's busines model for a real business you'd go bankrupt several times.

That's why I like what Stu Sternberg is doing in Tampa (He was the head of mergers and acquisitions for Goldman Sachs - buy a company, fix it and sell for a tremendous profit). He's building a franchise with a proven business model from the real world. Sure, for the most part it's dressing up a depressed pig (rebranding), but eventually the pig will see it's pretty new self and think it's not such a pig anymore (and win the World Series). Then Sternberg will sell for a tremendous profit to some new owner who will run the franchise like a baseball team again.
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
747 days ago
Score 2+-
I'm not disagreeing. By not making that suggestion (my post above), Mitchell is very much apart of the puzzle to the commissioner's office involvement of this issue.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
747 days ago
Score 2+-
You know who would make a great commissioner in 2009? George W. Bush.

I'm not kidding. It would be killing three birds with one bonehead.

1) Selig would be replaced by someone actually more competent

2) with the same owner mentality.

3) He would somehow lend credibility to baseball - a U.S. president is still a U.S. President. Ask Warren G Harding!

3b) He couldn't start another war. But he'd be the guy who'd actually find the weapons of mass construction (steroids)
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JuTMSY4Legend
747 days ago
Score 1+-
But we just signed Chris Snelling ; - ) God...was does my baseball team keep screwing me over...
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SSreportersLegend
746 days ago
Score 2+-
Stop signing all of these former Mariners!
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Niteowl049AAA-er
747 days ago
Score 0+-
Selig has gotten worse since 1992 when he canceled the World Series in 1994. He should have been fired then but the owners liked him too much.
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Niteowl049AAA-er
747 days ago
Score 0+-
Looks like Manny invented cold fusion because I haven't heard of anyone else inventing baseball.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
747 days ago
Score 2+-
Abner Doubleday never saw a game of baseball in his life - the people who credited him with the invention of the game - a commission in 1907 - knew it was untrue, but it was more romantic then "it just kinda evolved from a foriegner's game". Nice story but completely fake.

Doubleday was attending West Point Military Academy when he supposedly invented base ball in Cooperstown, New York. And he became a famous war hero so like baseball always has done - swept the truth under the rug and went with what sounded best. In fact, one of the people on the commission knew Doubleday personally AND knew Cartwright was the first organizer yet went with the better sounding story because it was for the benefit of the game being attached to a fine, true blooded American man like Doubleday and not a greedy son of a bitch, immigrant apologist like Cartwright.

Baseball evolved from rounders, everyone knows it.

Alexander J Cartwright created the first "base ball club" in 1845 - the first time the game was called "base ball". He also wrote the first rule book but he did not create the rules it was several teams that agreed to them.

Cartwright was the first umpire thus leading to the first official game of "Baseball" in 1846.
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
747 days ago
Score 2+-
There really was no "inventor" of baseball. It developed from the English child's game of rounders. There was no single game of baseball - with the same rules - until well after Doubleday's "invention" in 1839.

The first known written reference to base-ball is actually a 1791 bylaw from Pittsfield, MA stipulating that the game not be played 80 yards or closer to the new public meeting house. Cartwright's 1846 game in Hoboken was the first truly codified game of base-ball.

The Doubleday story is a flat out lie, generated by A.G. Spalding (yes, THAT Spalding) and his cronies in an effort to prove that baseball was a purely American game. It's been perpetuated, despite its obvious lack of truth, because it is easier to say and understand that "Abner Doubleday invented baseball" instead of the reality which is "Baseball developed from rounders and cricket, evolving, changing, eventually being codified in 1846 but nevertheless still changing dramatically over time."

This analogy may not be totally appropriate but the Doubleday story is like creationism for baseball, and the Cartwright/rounders story is like the theory of evolution.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 1+-
Horrible analogy. Evolution explains everything after creation and nothing before it.
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
746 days ago
Score 2+-
Carl Everett: {clears throat} Now lemmme explain....
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 1+-
Manny, if two things were exactly the same, we wouldn't need analogies to compare them, now would we? Your analogy policing is tired.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 1+-
If two things were the same, it's because you didn't read my comment and then said almost exactly the same thing - "baseball came from rounders"

I only know things because I need to find answers to my questions. But credit goes to you because you're a "know it all"...

"Semantic Banter Rawb."

Screw my analogy policing, you think you're smart but you sure are dumb for arguing with me... why don't you ever get tired of that?


By the way - I nearly laugh my ass off every time you respond to anything I say to you. At least you think you think you can win... but win WHAT?

Second Place is all your pal...
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 1+-
wow, easy there, killer.

I've always considered AGM to be a forum for the free exchange of sports opinions and ideas. I was unaware that it is apparently a competition, which you have clearly "won." Forgive me if I do not indulge in such "competition." I know "winning" arguments on AGM is a monumental achievement, but there are other things I'd prefer to do with my time. Besides, it's so clear that you're the best at everything, Manny, so how dare anyone ever disagree with you, or have the unmitigated gaul to critique your comments.

See, I'm a silly sort, I use arguing as a means to arrive at a higher level of understanding something than when I started. I believe that two people disagreeing with each other can reach a superior level of understanding as opposed to one person agreeing with himself. I don't argue for the sake of "winning." Moreover, I don't argue for the sake of GLOATING about winning. I guess that makes me weird.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
746 days ago
Score 2+-
Abner Doubleday DID see baseball in his life, otherwise he wouldn't be erroneously credited with its invention. Baseball was a popular activity with Union soldiers during the Civil War, it was not uncommon for two platoons or battalions to meet up in their travels and stop and play ball for a day or so as sort of a vacation break. Doubleday was a leading proponent of recreation for his troops (he was a Union General) so baseball was a game he was very familiar with.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 0+-
I think that just made me pee my pants a tad... Why argue when you can just act high and mighty, right chum(p)?
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 0+-
That wasn't intended for you, KD... it was for Noah Tall above...

I guess Abe Lincoln's last words were "The game must go on..." right? Because Doubleday was also at Ford theatre when he was shot.

And there is no evidence that Doubleday allowed HIS troops to play baseball, nor is there evidence that he ever saw a baseball game. Wanna compare sources?
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 0+-
So what is it you want to argue about, Manny? Make it snappy, I'm going to Foxwoods in about 5 minutes.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
746 days ago
Score 2+-
slow down pats fans (you're on the same team!)

and to end the argument

"Spygate" - done...
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 0+-
Well I say the Pats WANT to play the Broncos and Rawb says they're afraid of the Broncos.

I think they'll go 38-0 and Rawb only wants them to go 19-0.

Plus how the Pats do has zero effect on my life whereas the Pats are the only thing rawb has in his life.

Other than that, I merely enjoy facking with morons that think they need to use multisyllabic words to indicate their cerebral fortitude.
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 0+-
I never said the Patriots were afraid of playing the Broncos, I said that I would rather not play the Broncos in the playoffs. But if we do play them, I won't be "afraid." I want to see the Patriots win the Super Bowl, and the easier the path is to such a goal, the better. It would be great if we could play Miami, Cincinnati, then San Francisco in the playoffs, but that's not going to happen.

I'm going to take a Belichickian stance on the 19-0 issue. I want the Patriots to go 14-0 by beating the Jets on Sunday, then we'll think about next week's game.

Manny, you don't know me, you'll never meet me, and you'll have nothing to do with the important things in my life. There's so much more to my life than sports, just like I'm sure there's more to your life than sports. Besides, you're forgetting about the Red Sox.

If facking with morons is what you like to do, then be my guest. Frankly, I prefer dealing with intelligent people. Life's too short to waste on things that trick yourself into a sense of superiority.

And regarding my diction, and the occasional $1,000 words I use, I don't do it to make myself appear smart. I know how smart how I am, and how much smarter I could be. And I honestly don't care if you or anybody else has an accurate gauge of my intelligence. I try to convey ideas using the best words I can think of. It might come off as pretentious, but I really don't care. My apathy toward you knows no bounds.

Finally, I recommend that you don't ever attempt to understand why I do what I do. I've spent 23 years with myself and I'm just getting to know me. You read my articles and comments on a sports web-site. Nobody can understand anyone with such a small amount of filtered exposure.

Now I must go to Foxwoods and take money from tourists at the poker tables. I'm sorry I couldn't stick around longer. Have a pleasant evening.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 0+-
Quite a lengthy response for someone with so much boundless apathy towards me... The smarter you think you are, the funnier you get!!! Oh, I'm getting a sidestich!
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 0+-
Explaining a simple concept to a simple man is a complicated endeavor.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 0+-
If you say so, Captain... Didn't you have somewhere to go apathy boy...? If not, I have a place in mind for you.
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KelsdadAll-Star
746 days ago
Score 1+-
As big as you are, Manny, you're still in over your head if you want to get into something with me, but, if you want.....
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 1+-
You keep that kind of attitude up mister and you'll get a rap song made about your extensive collection of A-Rod figurines. Let's put it on a pay site and at least get paid for it...
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
746 days ago
Score 2+-
The natives are growing restless Mr. Stiles.....
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KelsdadAll-Star
746 days ago
Score 2+-
I have a picture of Doubleday watching a game during the war, we'll leave it at that.

I'll write the first two verses for you...

"Why is ARod such a hater"

"Cause he so jealous of Je-tah"
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 1+-
KD, you took that picture when you were in a High School photography class right?

Somehow Jeter got a golden glove, but A-Rod can't get Yankee fans' love

Jeter is "Driven", KD are you kidding?

If Jeter is Most Awesomest Yankee, A-Rod is still MVP

If A-Rod would have left you would replace him with who?

They need to move Jeter away from short because he plays it like a pile of #2

We could do this all night but it's already over

Mr November stunk up the entire month of October

Mr April got you there it ain't that scary

How do I know Jeter's gay? He dated Mariah Carey!!!
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KelsdadAll-Star
746 days ago
Score 3+-
So all you can give me rebuttal wise is some wisecrack about my high school photo class? I expected more from you, but then again, since you're wrong there isn't much for you to say. Nice rap, I love the line about moving him off shortstop. Now, all you need is K-Fed to record it.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 1+-
K-Fed? Thems fighting words...

I'll admit being wrong when I see the picture - I did a google search on the web and found 694 (weird enough) pictures of him of which TWO were actual photographs of Doubleday - yes, I scanned through themm all - both were of him seated in uniform and not on a baseball field.

While it is true that baseball was spread throughout the country by the Civil War, I have a source (an old fashioned book about baseball's myths) that said there was no actual evidence that Doubleday ever played baseball, ever liked baseball or that he ever saw a single game played.

Doubleday wrote volumes of papers and memoirs in his life and never once mentioned baseball. Of course he went crazy in his latter years and shot and killed his wife before spending his final days in an asylum. Maybe he forgot he enjoyed basbeall?

Upload this picture! The internet needs to have this information!
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KelsdadAll-Star
746 days ago
Score 3+-
From the book, "Baseball and the Blue and Gray" by Michael Aubrecht

Doubleday was an 1842 graduate of West Point (graduating with A.P. Stewart, D.H. Hill, Earl Van Dorn and James Longstreet) and served in both the Mexican and Seminole wars. In 1861, he was stationed at the garrison in Charleston Harbor. It is said that it was Doubleday, an artillery officer, who aimed the first Fort Sumter guns in response to the Confederate bombardment that initiated the war. Later he served in the Shenandoah region as a brigadier of volunteers and was assigned to a brigade of Irwin McDowell's corps during the campaign of Second Manassas. He also commanded a division of the I Corps at Sharpsburg and Fredericksburg as well at Gettysburg where he assumed the command of I Corps after the fall of Gen. John F. Reynolds, helping to repel the infamous "Pickett's Charge." Strangely, his outstanding military service has been all but forgotten yet his controversial baseball legacy still lives on. Regardless of really being (or not being) the actual "inventor" of the modern version, Doubleday did apparently organized several exhibitions between Union divisions and was an apparent student and fan of the game. Many of these contests were attended by thousands of spectators and often made front-page news equal to the war reports from the field.

Yawn.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 1+-
Sorry, the guy who credited Doubleday with Inventing baseball - Abner Graves was the one who went crazy and shot and killed his wife, not Doubleday.

Yes, I can also find more books that credit Doubleday with the invention of baseball. That paragraph would be handy if one was writing abook glorifying baseball during the Civil War. Doubleday HIMSELF wrote two books abouit the Civil War yet neither of those books mention a word about these VERY popular games????

I want to see the picture!
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KelsdadAll-Star
746 days ago
Score 1+-
You can't afford to.
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
746 days ago
Score 2+-
Both of you are wrong.

Baseball goes back much further. And here is the pic for proof:

2001-ape-download-movie.jpg

Now lighten up and grab a beer!
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KelsdadAll-Star
746 days ago
Score 2+-
That book does not credit Doubleday with inventing baseball.
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KelsdadAll-Star
746 days ago
Score 2+-
Jamel know you're posting his pictures on the web?
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
746 days ago
Score 2+-
Puhlease, Jamel drags his knuckles on the floor when attempting to walk. As you can see in the pic, this fine young athlete is far more evolved. And deft with the bat if I might add.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 1+-
And it also doesn't have a picture of Doubleday enjoying a game of baseball either - unless it's an artist's drawing of what it might look like! Doubleday might have heard of baseball but all the evidence says he didn't care for it and may have never seen a game played.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 1+-
Oh, and WHY would they pick Doubleday as the Great American Game inventor? Because he fired the first shot at Ft. Sumter in 1861.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
746 days ago
Score 2+-
Doubleday might have heard of baseball but all the evidence says he didn't care for it and may have never seen a game played Not all the evidence Manny, just all you've seen.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 1+-
...and STILL none of what I (and everyone else) haven't. I triangulate, I don't mythicate.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 1+-
Oh, I did find something!

The great Army General Abner Doubleday had a nephew that may or may not have watched and/or played baseball in or somewhere near Cooperstown, New York... What was that nephew's name?

Abner Doubleday.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
746 days ago
Score 2+-
You believe in Noah's Ark? That Moses parted the Red Sea? That dinosaurs existed?

Ever see any of them?

Argument over.



Argument over.
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KelsdadAll-Star
746 days ago
Score 2+-
And....................?
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 1+-
Well, considering the camera was invented after those events yet there ARE photographs of Doubleday (albeit none of him on a baseball field) I guess you're right. I guess there is a picture of Abner Doubleday on a baseball field (but it would be his nephew, Abner)...

Anyway, I don't believe those things happened as literally as they are described. As a student of Joseph Campbell's teachings, I understand the power of myth and how things can happen one very boring, normal way and yet be described in a much more tremendous fashion yet both accounts can be equally accurate.

Maybe I'll channel Mr Doubleday soon and have an interview with him!!?!? I do love the dead guys!

I'll call off the dogs, it's drinking time!
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
746 days ago
Score 1+-
Was his nephew at Gettysburg?
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 1+-
Oh now you did it! I've been to Gettysburg. There was NO way baseball getting played there, at least not in 1863. There was no time for baseball with all of the dying that happened. Nor afterwards when the burying was getting tended to. You're lucky tonight is the annual "12 Bars of Celebration"!!!
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
746 days ago
Score 2+-
Jesus, Manny, you think you're the only guy who ever went anywhere?

I've been to Gettysburg too. More than once.

And I didn't say the game was played AT Gettysburg, I'm discrediting your nephew theory.

Any of the twelve bars on my side of town?
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KelsdadAll-Star
746 days ago
Score 1+-
Abner Doubleday was a military man, so it goes to common sense his books would be about military strategy and thinks like that. No reason for there to be a reference to baseball or anything not military related. My cookbook/diet manuscript won't have a baseball reference in it, nor would I expect your manuscript on unemployment to have one either.
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Niteowl049AAA-er
747 days ago
Score 1+-
Plus Doubleday got the first patent for a streetcar in San Francisco.
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
747 days ago
Score 3+-
and Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone, too.
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MetsJetsDevilsDraft Pick
747 days ago
Score 3+-
And Thomas Edison invented moving pictures.
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
747 days ago
Score 3+-
Eli Whitney invented the cotton gin.
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JuTMSY4Legend
747 days ago
Score 3+-
no, but eli whitney did essentially invent american slavery ; - )
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 2+-
His invention simply made it more profitable. He also applied the concept of interchangeable parts to gun manufacturing.
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CoreyisarealboyMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 3+-
It was so much easier to invent things when there wasn't anything.
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 2+-
There's still plenty of stuff that doesn't exist. Go invent a test for HGH.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 1+-
They have a test for HGH 'Captain Know It All', but it's a blood test - which would violate the CBA. Thanks for popping off.
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 1+-
So Corey, go invent a URINE test for HGH. And that's "Thank you for popping off, SIR!" I'm CAPTAIN Know-It-All Goddammit.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 0+-
Yeah, well I'm your personal Major Headache. Salute your superiors, no matter how haughty you think you are.
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JuTMSY4Legend
746 days ago
Score 2+-
on that note, did anyone hear selig mention holding an HGH summit so...and i quote "they can create a way to detect this undetectable drug"

ooooohhhhhhh...

Please add that to the invisibility solution...thanks
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 0+-
No, Manny. See I'm a Captain in the Know-It-All Navy. Naval Captains are the equivalent to Army Colonels (both are OF-5 in NATO rank code), so you salute me, Major (OF-3). Can you see why I made it so high in the Know-It-All Navy?
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 0+-
In the Navy, eh? Tell the Indian I said "hey" and tell the Cop to stay away from my brother.
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CoreyisarealboyMajor Leaguer
747 days ago
Score 5+-
And Al Gore invented the Internet ... Wait.
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
746 days ago
Score 4+-
i think i hear a whale dying...
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
746 days ago
Score 3+-
Damn heat...
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LASportsblogAAA-er
746 days ago
Score 0+-
He also invented man made global warming... Oh wait I thought this was the forum of things that people DID actually invent, sorry carry on.
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CoreyisarealboyMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 0+-
Well he only won the Nobel Prize for one of those things, so I guess you can take it how you see it.
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LASportsblogAAA-er
746 days ago
Score 1+-
He was given credit as part of a group who won an undeserved peace prize by commercializing a controversial and unproven evnironmental change. But you know, if that's deserving of a prize promoting world peace, I can see where the world is heading.
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LASportsblogAAA-er
746 days ago
Score 1+-
and it's not "how I see it" Corey. It's how it is.
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
746 days ago
Score 2+-
Argue all you want, but Al Gore definitely deserved a Nobel Peace Prize..... for discovering ManBearPig! Serial!
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Desert WahooJV Squad
746 days ago
Score 2+-
Baseball did this to themselves. When there are commercials promoting the game with pitchers hitting batting pratice homeruns and saying idiotic things like "chicks dig the long ball", you knew there was going to be a problem.
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JuTMSY4Legend
746 days ago
Score 2+-
yeah, but maddux and glavine weren't named
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The oldest manVarsity
746 days ago
Score 2+-
Using something to make the playing field uneven or unfair is something that has been going on in baseball since the beginning. Cutting the balls, dirt/sweat whatever you name it has been done, but drugs makes the playing field completely unfair and in my humble opinion WRONG. Is there a difference between spitting up a baseball and steroids and the answer would be a total correct-yes-out of line whatever you want to call it. But by definition breaking the rules is wrong and whether you do it one way or the other it is then wrong for both. Both ways helps you win but one isn't natural and in the long run could kill you. Moral conflict with this whole idea. Purist so one thing and others say the other thing and nobody is absolutely right or wrong. My way of looking at this whole situation is if you can do it during the course of the game, cutting the ball etc.....,then maybe that is the only right and fair way to happen these two wrongs. Steriods and HGH do it in the long run and help your body do things later and longer in your baseball life. Teams cheat by stealing the other teams signs looking for something that will give them an edge. But the one thing that always remains here is that the drugs allow individuals to do better at what they do for longer periods of time then is natural. It doesn't make you a better hitter but it does make you hit it harder and farther they is normal. This problem is not going to go away soon and it would seem that we will be writing and talking about it for many days to come.
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Smmonroe2Varsity Captain
746 days ago
Score 2+-
Mo Vaughn was my favorite player when I was little, I thought he was diffrent
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LASportsblogAAA-er
746 days ago
Score 1+-
How could you exclude Mo Vaughn from your guilty list? I always thought he had to take steriods just to counter balance how much grease and fat he took in. At 250 lbs you gotta take some roids just to stay in the "below average fitness" zone with his body frame.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
746 days ago
Score 1+-
I've heard some GREAT "Mo Vaughn at the Strip Club" stories from multiple sources.
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Smmonroe2Varsity Captain
746 days ago
Score 1+-
I guess they are all the same
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Niteowl049AAA-er
746 days ago
Score 0+-
Have been away from computer for 19 hours so had no idea what a ruckus I had started about Abner Doubleday. I did know that Alexander Cartwright had lined out the dimensions of the baseball field and I am in awe of his intelligence. If he had put the bases two feet further apart there would be very few stolen bases and if he had put them two feet closer there would a lot of 100 stolen base players except for Johnny Estrada who still couldn't steal a base since he has never stolen a base in his career.
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Niteowl049AAA-er
746 days ago
Score 0+-
Manny, Rawbeezeitz and Kelsdad made some very good points about who may or may not have invented baseball. I don't claim to be an expert on baseball so I am still learning. Selig as commissioner makes me wish General Eckert was back in charge of baseball...at least he was independent but Selig didn't even mention Eckert was in same cemetery when he was at National Cemetery honoring Abner Doubleday.
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