Chris's 2006 MLB Mid-Season Awards

You're saying that even after Liriano's most recent start? Not to take anything away from Liriano's performance, but Papelbon was amazing with a lot more playing time. I don't know about giving him the Cy Young for the first half, but I think that at this point, I'd give him the rookie pitcher award over Liriano.

I believe Liriano still leads the world in ERA by over .50 at 2.12, not to mention his 10-2 record and 1.01 WHIP. While I'm not trying to take anything away from Papelbon, he's been incredible, you also have to look at the fact that he's fourth in the league among regular closers in blown saves. He's played more like a rookie than Liriano in some inoppurtune times. Granted he has a great ERA, but he hasn't played enough innings to compare him to the ERA of Liriano.

If everything progressing similarly for Liriano and Paps in the 2nd half, the awards definitely go to Liriano. ALthough, I would not want to see a Rookie win the Cy Young. Don't ask why, I just don't like the idea of it.

First of all, he's in a three-way tie for fourth (with Todd Jones and Bob Wickman) among regular closers in blown saves. And part of that is because he leads the league in save opportunities with 29, so that makes the stat pretty misleading. Let's see if Rodriguez, River, Otsuka and Putz have just two blown saves by the time they get to 29 chances. Or if Ryan and Ray still have just one blown save by the time they get to 29. I think you also have to consider the circumstances of Papelbon's three blown saves. In one, he inherited runners, and one of them scored. It wasn't even his own baserunner. He pitched 1.1 innings in that game and went on to record the win. In each of his other two blown saves, he allowed just one run. So, even in his blown saves, his ERA is just 3.85. Compare that against Jenks, who has just one blown save but allowed 3 runs in 0.2 innings in that game. Or against perhaps Rivera, who has an ERA of 12.00 in his two blown saves. When you consider the circumstances, I think he's still the best closer in baseball. You can't just dismiss the man that's tied for the AL lead in saves that easily, based on the very surface stat of blown saves.

I agree that right now he's the best closer, but he's not better than Liriano when you look at their stats. The blown saves thing was something I just threw out there. Also, look at the difference between the two teams. Liriano doesn't have an offense behind him, but still has managed to win 10 games in just 11 starts (he's won nine of those games in the 11 starts). Plus, relievers generally don't win Cy Young awards, starters do.

Well, when you're pitching as well as Liriano is, I don't really see what offense has to do with it. He hasn't won or lost any games based on run support. And the Twins are averaging 5 runs per start for Liriano, just above their season average. 5 runs per start isn't bad support. As for being a starter, I agree. That's why I said I wasn't sure about giving Papelbon the Cy Young for the first half. Relievers shouldn't get the Cy Young. It's an award for starters. But I do think he should get Rookie of the Year for the first half. Can't that be our dimplomatic solution? Give Liriano the Cy Young and Papelbon the Rookie of the Year. It can be like Vince Young winning two awards for best QB balancing out the fact that he lost the Heisman.

Yeah, it's really too hard to compare a starter and a closer because they are different beasts.

I don't think anyone said that his being from Boston trumped Liriano. And I won't speak for the author, but just a guess for the "duh" comment would be that, even for a guy that faces batters just once per game, a 0.59 ERA is absolutely breathtaking. As is a 0.79 WHIP. None of this is to take away from Liriano, just saying this isn't a Boston versus Minnesota argument. Papelbon's numbers are stunning. So are Liriano's. An argument could be made for both, so I don't think you're doing yourself any favors by acting like a person's an idiot for recognizing that Papelbon has been outstanding.

What I meant was that we've seen a whole first half's worth of performance from Papelbon, whereas we've only seen 11 starts for Liriano. Again, not to take anything away from him, but things can change drastically after 11 starts. For example, Wandy Rodriguez had a 3.95 ERA after his first 11 starts of the season. Now it's 5.14. I meant that it's a lot easier to be sold on the performance of a player when you've seen him in his role for the duration of the period you're talking about. Papelbon started the season as a closer. Liriano had just 10 starts in the first half, while most other starters had 17 to 20.

I know there's a big difference between Liriano and Wandy. The point is that 11 starts isn't nearly indicative of a pitcher's performance as 17 or 20 starts. And I don't know why you're saying Liriano hasn't gotten much national attention. Ever since his start against Clemens, he's gotten huge amounts of coverage. I've heard people talking about him during games he's not playing in. You've got no grounds for complaint when it comes to coverage, especially when it comes to recent coverage. By the way, his numbers as a reliever aren't almost the same as his numbers as a starter. As a reliever, his ERA was 3.22, and it's 1.77 as a starter. As a reliever, his WHIP was 1.39, and it's 0.89 as a starter. As a reliever, opponents had a .402 slugging percentage against him, and it's .279 as a starter. And finally, his batting average against as a reliever was .323. It's .242 as a starter. I would argue that the fact that those numbers are better as a starter are magnified for the reason you stated, that as a starter he's facing batters three or maybe four times a game. But, the point is that he actually didn't stand out that much as a reliever. Aside from his strikeout rate, which has predictably decreased as a starter, he was quite mediocre as a reliever.

Actually, that doesn't clarify. His more significant role? Is that just because he's a starter? Because I don't think that being a starter makes you more important by default. Nor do I think importance is necessarily a factor in ROY voting. ROY allows for a lot more leeway on voting purely personal stats than other categories, such as MVP.

Yeah, I can't believe anyone would say that starters are necessarily more important than closers. That's pretty ridiculous. How important they are to their team depends on circumstances, not whether they're a starter.

That doesn't piss me off, but I do think it's totally illogical. That would be like giving rookie of the year to a second baseman instead of a left fielder because the second baseman's defense is more important. Or giving it to a guy that bats leadoff because his role is more important than a guy batting fourth or fifth in the lineup. All the parts are important. I don't think that such a subjective statement as one position being more important than another should determine who gets an award.

All things equal, starters are usually more important than relievers just because they pitch so many more innings. In this case, all things are not equal, because Papelbon's numbers (ERA, WHIP), etc. are better than Liriano's. Now, is that more valuable than the fact that Liriano has pitched twice as many innings (at this point, that will go up) as Papelbon has? Depends on the person. I'd tend to think Liriano has been more valuable with the more innings, but that could be up for debate. I do think that if the numbers stay the same, only with Papelbon throwing 80 innings and Liriano throwing 200, Liriano deserves the award. IMO.

And about the 2B/LF thing, it's like a LF being a little better offensively, with the 2B being much more valuable defensively.

Excuse me, Rookie pitcher. Also, I'd put up a vote for Nomar as NL Comeback Player of the Year.

Agreed about Ortiz... he's having another fantastic year, but his nubmers are just not as good as Hafner's.

I really wouldn't consider Hafner the alternative.

Although Ortiz may be launching himself into contention again for the MVP - his July average so far is .340, so he may get above .300 by the end of the month. If he keeps his average growing, he could definitely finish the season in the Top Twenty in average, if not Top Ten - so who knows.

Hafner means more to the indians than ortiz does to the sox...secondly they're both DHs...and as far as nomar...quit being a homer xinoph ( i see that sox allegiance a mile away ;) ). Nomar hasn't nearly been as valuable or improved as rolen...i would argue nomar started his comeback last year while rolen hasn't had that time...rolen is the pickj...plus he carried the cards w/ pujols

Verlander has been excellent this year and should definitely be considered. However, I don't think that I would give him the edge over Papelbon or Liriano.