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Best Relief Tandems

10
Vote

by user Willf123

Rivera to Wetteland. In 1996 this was arguably the most dominating duo of setupman to closer combination in baseball. Wetteland saved 43 games and Rivera had a miniscule 2.09 ERA for 107 2/3 innings that year. Basically, if the Yankees got to the 8th inning with the lead the game was over. So far this season Hideki Okajima and Jonathan Papelbon have been in my estimation the best duo in baseball and the biggest reason why the Sox have a 9 ½ game lead over the NYY in the AL East. I decided to check on other setup/closer tandems to get an idea of who the best might be. The criteria I used was the closer had to have at least 43 saves and his primary setup man had to have at least 100 innings pitched and 61 appearances.

Year Tandem SV IP ERA

03 Gagne/Mota 56 187.3 1.63

98 Beck/Mulholland 54 192.3 2.95

98 Gordon/Lowe 50 202.3 3.51

96 Brantley/Shaw 48 175.7 2.46

96 Wetteland/Rivera 45 171.4 2.36

99 Hernandez/White 43 181.3 3.67

07 Papelbon/Oki 13 35 0.77

'

Other Notable Seasons- Just under requirements

01 Rivera/Mendoza 56 181.4 3.13

99 Rivera/Mendoza 48 192.7 3.41

93 Myers/Bautista 55 187 2.94

86 Righetti/Shirley 49 212 3.73

88 Eck/Nelson 48 184.4 2.78

83 Quiz/Armstrong 48 241.7 2.76

84 Sutter/Allen 48 241.7 2.53

89 Davis/Harris 50 227.7 2.29

The best tandem of at least the last 10 years was Gagne and Mota in 2003. The innings pitched numbers are relatively the same except for the time in the early 1980’s. Look at those innings pitched!


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JuTMSY4Legend
964 days ago
Score 2+-
Beck and Mulholland...hard to believe of them was ever good...

I'm not sure I like your criteria (its your work though, and interesting at that). 100 innings for a setup like reliever is a lot (and if your team sucks, you'll never get that...then again, you probably suck). Also, saves are a bit overrated considering the criteria, then again you work with what you got...

Overall, I think its a good article, sorry to sound like I'm ripping it
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Willf123JV Squad
964 days ago
Score 0+-
some excellent points to consider
Permalink
Willf123JV Squad
964 days ago
Score 2+-
I used the criteria to try to recreate the conditions of the rivera/wetteland in 1996 where rivera pitched 107 innings in 61 appearances and wetteland had 43 saves. That's why i included a few similar ones below. I actually found that high save totals do tend to keep the innings pitched for primary setup guys below 100.
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JuTMSY4Legend
964 days ago
Score 1+-
That would make sense...Obviously, the amount of variables are the reason that things like this make sabremetrics and the like look bad. You're just trying to give the numbers some context...its not accident that the tandems you listed all featured good closers (Except Derek Lowe!) The other problem is that, while ERA does average it out, being a closer and having your spot blown up a few times hurts, but if you give up a few runs in 1 innings ( or even less, like 1/3 of an inning), your ERA grow phenominally, which is unfair consider they pitch so few innings (compared to starters) as is...this is why its hard to get a good solid closer, statistically...
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MetsJetsDevilsDraft Pick
964 days ago
Score 1+-
Isn't Turnbow/Cordero better than Oki/Papelbon this year?
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JuTMSY4Legend
964 days ago
Score 1+-
You didn't watch the Brewers this week did you?
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MetsJetsDevilsDraft Pick
964 days ago
Score 0+-
Turnbow had a bad week, but Cordero is still head over heels the best closer in baseball right now.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
964 days ago
Score 0+-
I'll give you Cordero > Papelboner...
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DNLLegend
964 days ago
Score 1+-
What about the split-closer squads on bad teams? Check out the 1983 Mets. Jesse Orosco and Doug Sisk both threw over 100 IP and ERAs under 2.25. 60+ games too. But only 28 saves. That's mostly because the Mets only had 68 wins.
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JuTMSY4Legend
964 days ago
Score 0+-
THen in the 90s Jesse Orosco was literally a 3 pitch pitcher
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
964 days ago
Score 1+-
No combination out of the bullpen could ever beat Will Ohman and Michael Wuertz for the Cubs. Pure magic there!
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TylersaltAll-Star
964 days ago
Score 0+-
I think I sense some sarcasm there, but Ohman's not all that bad. :)
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TylersaltAll-Star
964 days ago
Score 0+-
I wikified whoever I recognized for you... ;)
Permalink | Reply
Willf123JV Squad
964 days ago
Score 0+-
thank you, I'm still trying to get used to all this
Permalink
ItsinhowyouinflectWaterboy
964 days ago
Score 1+-
i'm not sure i understand the saves requirement of this. it seems pretty arbitrary to limit this to 43 saves, especially in the face of saves not really being all that important of a stat. anyway, getting to the main point of the article. that mota/gagne combo sure did show us the fragility of great relievers, eh? gagne has thrown 21 innings in the last 3 years and mota has the steroid suspension and ended up pitching terribly for about 2 years until the mets picked him up.
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JuTMSY4Legend
964 days ago
Score 0+-
As Willf said "I used the criteria to try to recreate the conditions of the rivera/wetteland in 1996 where rivera pitched 107 innings in 61 appearances and wetteland had 43 saves" His point is, I think, that they were a pretty dominant tandem (especially now, looking at Rivera as an all time great)...seems fair to measure others against it, especially with the current era of relievers...
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
964 days ago
Score 1+-
I think a glaring omission here is Billy Wagner and Octavio Dotel in 2003. Because of Dotel's bad experience as a closer, I think people have forgotten that he was one of the game's best setup men for about three years. In 2003, Dotel and Wagner saved 48 games in 53 chances. They had a combined ERA of 2.13 (Wagner was 1.78) over 173 innings and struck out 202.
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ASwaffAll-American
964 days ago
Score 1+-
Sorry, that was me.
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ASwaffAll-American
964 days ago
Score 1+-
And I missed that 61 appearances and 100 innings was one of your criteria. I don't really understand that one. I mean, I understand there are certain things you're trying to duplicate, but isn't effective effective regardless of how many innings you pitch? Dominance is being able to be dominant when called upon. Why should someone be punished because his team has starting pitching that goes into the 8th, or some other limiting factor? In 2003, Dotel had 76 appearances, but only 87 innings. Why should 13 fewer innings hold him back from a comparison to Rivera when he pitched in 15 more games?
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KelsdadAll-Star
964 days ago
Score 1+-
How far back did you look?
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Willf123JV Squad
963 days ago
Score 0+-
well I didnt have to go back that far because I looked up who had 43 or more saves and the other 2 criteria after that...If I changed the criteria there couldve been all sorts of things that could be measured. I mean there were seasons that Hoyt Wilhelm or Mike Marshall had for example where the closer pitched more than 100 innings. Quiz had 45 saves in 1983 which is the oldest given the criteria.
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Willf123JV Squad
963 days ago
Score 0+-
You can only measure what you are measuring.
Permalink | Reply
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