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Barry Bonds's Place in Baseball's Pantheon

16
Vote

by user Darrel

The overwhelming evidence stating Bonds took steroids has sparked discussion on just how good a player Barry was prior to taking steroids.

Here’s what we know: Barry Bonds started taking steroids after the 1998 season which saw Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa break the home run record.

Throw out everything else. Forget any of your notions of Barry Bonds the ballplayer. You most likely got them from the last few years, when Barry Bonds was nothing like the player he started out as.

Hell, forget that Barry even played past 1998. Pretend as though we’re in an alternate dimension where Barry retires after the 1998 season. What kind of player are we looking at?

The Hitting

<stats> Player=Barry Bonds Type=Batting Years=1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998 Extras=Totals </stats>


Most people see that Barry hit only 411 home runs up until this time period and believe he falls short of the “all time great” status. This is extremely short sighted. Why?

Barry Bonds, like Frank Thomas, differs from hitters such as Mark McGwire or Sammy Sosa who overwhelmingly relied on the home run for offensive value. Bonds contributed to his team in a way that wasn’t sexy – he walked. From 1990-1998, Barry lead the league in walks five times and came in second another four. Compare that to Mark McGwire, who lead the league in walks only twice, but in home runs four times.

Barry’s walks lead to a dominance on On-Base Percentage. In fact, despite leading the league in homers only once, and never cracking the top 3 in batting average, Bonds lead the league in OPS from 1990-1993 and never ranked below third until he “retired.”

The Defense

Plenty of people know about how good of a hitter Barry was, but not many people realize he dominated as a defender, too. Barry won gold gloves in every year from 1990-1998 except for 1995. Most people also don’t know that Barry Bonds came up to the majors as a center fielder. Pittsburgh moved Barry to left field because they had Andy Van Slyke, a defensive whiz and one of the best defenders of his time. The early 90s Pirates, in effect, had two center fielders roaming the outfield. Bonds played left field with amazing range. In fact, Bonds was still an above average left fielder until he “retired” in 1998. Calling Bonds the greatest defensive left fielder of all time would not be a stretch by any means.

In fact, Bill James said as much in his New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract (written after the 2000 season).

“Certainly the most-unappreciated superstar of my lifetime . . . Probably the second- or third-best hitter among the 100 listed left fielders (behind Williams and perhaps Musial), probably the third-best baserunner (behind Henderson and Raines), probably the best defensive left fielder.”

The Competition

Barry’s peak compares to, but ultimately falls short of all-time greats such as Lou Gehrig, Jimmie Foxx, Ted Williams, and Babe Ruth. It’s important to realize the increase in competition that came with integration and the influx of blacks and Latinos, as well as increases in sports medicine. This includes procedures like the Tommy John surgery, which has saved careers of many pitchers. It also includes, ironically, steroids.

“Clean” Barry ultimately lost out on MVPs given to Ken Caminiti and Sammy Sosa, both of which were likely juicing. When we look at measures like OPS+ or WARP, or check to see MVPs and league leader boards, we have to remember that not all competition is made equal. Barry Bonds dominated his league for a 9 year period about as well as he possibly could, given that he was actually at a disadvantage to many of his peers.

Imagine if Barry didn’t have to bat against Paul Byrd, A.J. Burnett, John Smoltz, Eric Gagne, Tom Gordon, Mike Hampton, Cory Lidle, Jon Lieber, or Kris Benson. Sure, some of these players don’t stand out as amazing, but someone has to take their place. How well would Barry have done if he got to bat against those pitchers?

Furthermore, how many more MVPs could Barry have won without steroids in the game? It’s funny to consider Barry a victim in all this, I suppose, but it’s a valid point.

Hall of Fame?

Let it be known that this has nothing to do with Barry Bonds in the Hall of Fame. I stopped caring about the Hall of Fame long ago, and instead just hope that everyone can recognize just how great of a player Barry Bonds always ways. Bill James ranked Barry Bonds as the third-best left fielder of all time, behind Ted Williams and Stan Musial. One could quibble with that and probably place him anywhere from first to fifth, depending on how much credit you give him for his defense, his baserunning, and his competition. This is a far cry different what many people are saying. Bonds ranks, at worst, as one of the top 20 position players of all time. Stop thinking otherwise.


Date

Wed 03/15/06, 6:10 pm EST <pageTools></pageTools>

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Bball3345Draft Pick
1357 days ago
Score -1+-
Beautiful...I was thinking about writing something along these lines but you said a lot of what I would have...good job.
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Juggernaut agmLittle Leaguer
1357 days ago
Score 0+-
Anyone who says Bonds's numbers were built on steroids alone is ignorant, as what you point out here makes clear. But most knowledgeable baseball fans know how good Bonds was before he drank the BALCO Kool-Aid. What's really up for debate is how to view his All-Universe seasons afterwards, when he went from "one of the top 20 position players of all time" to unquestionably the best player of all time (if we'd never heard of steroids). Personally, I'm more disgusted by the puritanical outrage over steroids (Gasp! Who knew!) than I am by Bonds's steroid use.
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Awrigh01All-Star
1357 days ago
Score 2+-
Here's another point on Bonds. He was also facing pitchers who were all juiced up. An extra 2-3 MPH on their fastball makes a big difference. The whole era could be viewed as an arms race between pitchers and hitters enhancing their performance.
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Bball3345Draft Pick
1357 days ago
Score 1+-
This year, amphetamines will be tested for. I think this will create a noticeable drop in player performance. Unfortunately, I also think a lot of the fans will point to steroid testing to explain the drop. This will only add to people being outraged over how much steroids have done to produce these great hitters, when in reality, it is the lack of amphetamines that will cause the recent drop.
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Bball3345Draft Pick
1357 days ago
Score 1+-
Another thing, why do we assume that all of the players pre-Canseco did not use steroids? There is evidence that steroids were around before then in the game of baseball, so why do we isolate it only to the recent era?
Permalink | Reply
ThecrookedcapAll-Star
1357 days ago
Score 1+-
This is a wonderfully written opinion. No matter how you feel about steroids, it's hard to deny the Bonds was already a great player. And you showed it better than I probably ever could.
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EnyboDiv-I Stud
1357 days ago
Score 1+-
The fact is he cheated. Not only did he cheat he is a racist. Barry should suffer the same fate as Pete Rose and Shoeless joe. I give him credit for having tremendous talent, but he gets no respect in my eyes for who he is and how he acted.
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MetsJetsDevilsDraft Pick
1357 days ago
Score 0+-
Cmon people! this is double standardville. You can't live in a vacuum. If what Pete Rose did AFTER he stopped playing can result in his being barred from the HOF than Barry Bonds CHEATING WHILE playing for 8 years has to result in his being barred from the Hall. In what screwed up world does betting on baseball when you are no longer playing hurt the integrity of the game more than cheating for half your career while playing? If Barry Bonds never cheated he would belong in the Hall of Fame. If Pete Rose never gambled he would be in the hall of fame. In my humble opinion, cheating while playing should result in an automatic ban from the Hall but "Charlie Hustle" who unlike Bonds earned every stat he accumulated, should be given a ticker-tape parade!
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DNLLegend
1357 days ago
Score 0+-
Comparing Rose to Bonds isn't a good idea, if you use it as a platform to tout Rose. Rose has his life ban for good reason, and if he only looks good in comparison to Bonds... ye gods.
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MetsJetsDevilsDraft Pick
1357 days ago
Score 0+-
There is no good reason to bar Rose from the HOF. He earned every stat he ever accumulated. The "integrity" of the game argument was silly when Steve Howe was banned for drugs so many times, it is now outright ridiculous when MLB tolerates guys like Sosa, Big Mac and Barry Bonds. Guys with real stats like Pete Rose belong int he hall of fame. People who cheated don't. Its that simple.
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Awrigh01All-Star
1357 days ago
Score 0+-
The reason why Bonds will go into the Hall is because MLB made money off his franchise. Rose, however, caused the MLB to lose money.
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Juggernaut agmLittle Leaguer
1357 days ago
Score 0+-
There is a very old rule saying that any player or manager who bets on baseball will be banned for life. It existed well before Pete Rose even started playing the game. Rose bet on baseball. Rose is banned for life. Is it fair? I'm abivalent. Should a grown man be expected to face the consequences of breaking an established rule? Absolutely. There was no rule against steroid use in baseball -unless you count the one passed by the US government.
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MetsJetsDevilsDraft Pick
1357 days ago
Score -1+-
Are you claiming that there is no rule against steroids or other performance enhancing drugs in MLB?
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DarrelSoccer Kid
1356 days ago
Score 1+-
"Are you claiming that there is no rule against steroids or other performance enhancing drugs in MLB?"


Sure there is. ALl it calls for is a suspension, not a life-time ban. Furthermore, there has to be *a positive drug test*
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MetsJetsDevilsDraft Pick
1356 days ago
Score 0+-
"There was no rule against steroid use in baseball -unless you count the one passed by the US government." My point was there in fact was a rule against steroids in baseball. Are you arguing that it is sensical that a guy who cheated for at least 8 years of his playing career should make it to the HOF while a guy who played fairly his whole life should eb banned based on what he did years after his playing career ended? Should Kirby puckett be barred from the HOF because he assaulted a woman after he retired? Should Steve Garvey be barred from the HOF because there are a bunch of little Garvey's running aound calling him daddy that he does not even know about? How can anyone justify putting a cheater into the HOF and keeping guys who played the game right out?
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Patrickburke1980All-American
1356 days ago
Score 0+-
great thread
Permalink | Reply
Bball3345Draft Pick
1356 days ago
Score 0+-
Rose bet on baseball while he was managing didn't he?
Permalink | Reply
MetsJetsDevilsDraft Pick
1356 days ago
Score -2+-
He bet on baseball while he was managing. taht in no way affects the stats he accumulated as a player. Pete Rose was not going into the HOF as a coach, he was going in as a player. The same way that Ty Cobb who was an mean SOB isn't in the hall of fame because of his demeanor, but because of his numbers. You can't say the same thing about Bonds because for 8 years of his career he cheated to acquire his statistics.
Permalink | Reply
DarrelSoccer Kid
1356 days ago
Score 0+-
Sorry, you can't arbitrarily decide to hand down a life-time ban on someone when the standard punishment is much less.
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Bball3345Draft Pick
1356 days ago
Score 0+-
Yeah but without those 8 years he is still a hall of famer. so he did fairly accumulate enough stats to get into the HOF. Plus, it is still only alleged that he took the steroids, which is not enough to ban someone for life.
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
1356 days ago
Score 0+-
I don't understand this point some of you keep making. If Pete Rose's gamling after his playing career ended can mean he does not belong in the hall of fame despite his hall of fame stats than surely Barry Bonds cheating for 8 years would also mean he does not belong in the HOF despite his hall of fame stats.
Permalink | Reply
DarrelSoccer Kid
1355 days ago
Score 0+-
Except the punishment for gambling is a lifetime ban, while the punishment for using steroids is a suspension.
Permalink | Reply
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
1290 days ago
Score 0+-
How does gambling affect the standard of baseball though!?
Permalink | Reply
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