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Average Joe

17
Vote

by Tyduffy

Joe Torre is the consummate Yankee legend.  He has won four World Series, six American League titles, and eleven AL East crowns.  He has led the Yankees to the playoffs in all twelves of his seasons as manager.  His comprehensive list of accomplishments would make a Hall of Fame voter drool.

However, baseball is a what have you done for me lately business.  And what has Joe Torre done lately?

The Yankees last won the World Series in 2000.  Bill Clinton was still president.  There was a budget surplus.  Britney Spears, NSYNC, the Backstreet Boys, and Limp Bizkit were dropping hit new albums.  The World Trade Center was still standing.

They haven't appeared in the World Series since Josh Beckett owned them in 2003.

Their last four appearances in the playoffs were extreme disappointments.  They suffered the worst loss in the history of sports, after the rival Red Sox came back from a 3-0 deficit to win the ALCS in 2004.   The last three seasons the Yankees have been eliminated in the ALDS 3-2 by the Angels, 3-1 by the Tigers, and 3-1 by the Indians.

The only thing more eerily similar than the results the past three seasons, has been the way that they were achieved.  They had the same star-studded lineup with big contracts and big egos, the same shaky starting pitching and the same overworked bullpen with their arms about to fall off by October.   There have also been the questionable managerial decisions, like leaving Joba Chamberlin to pitch two innings in an 8-3 game.  They played the same lifeless and insipid brand of baseball.

There is also the future to consider.  Is Torre the man to rebuild a new Yankee dynasty?  Is the manager who had to have the Joba Rules enforced from on high to prevent him from abusing his young arm the one you want blooding a group of young pitchers?  Is Torre the one to lead the franchise into the void without the safety net Mariano Rivera?

Most importantly, does anyone seriously see him leading this team to another World Series title?

The late 90's Yankees had fire, character, and leadership.  This Yankees team needs it.  Is Torre the man to provide that?  Or would a more firey figure, who just happened to have played on those winning teams be more suited for the job?

It has been almost a decade since the Yankees have tasted glory.  Sometime around Game 5 of the 2004 ALCS this team lost their swagger, and they have yet to regain it.

Steinbrenner will get blamed for pushing Torre out the door.  Pundits will prattle on about how his expectations are unrealistic and how it is absurd to not be content with making the playoffs every season.  But when you spend about $1.3 billion in payroll, luxury tax, and revenue sharing over 7 seasons, you expect more than a wild-card and an early exit in the ALDS.

Torre has been a great manager and a loyal servant for the Yankees.  He may not be the problem, but he certainly hasn't been the solution either.  Sometimes the same message rings hallow when you have heard it for twelve seasons.  The emphasis for New York should be not on what Torre has done, but what he can do for them moving forward.  From that perspective, a change would probably be for the best.


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DonatevoMajor Leaguer
781 days ago
Score 6+-
I watched Joe Torre as a kid play third base for the St. Louis Cardinals. My parents grew up in St. Louis, and raised me as a Cardinals fan. I was actually devastated as a young boy, when St. Louis trades MVP Orlando Cepeda to Atlanta, for Torre. But Torre turned out to be one of my favorites, even winning the MVP. All the best to him. And thanks for the memories.
Permalink | Reply
KelsdadAll-Star
781 days ago
Score 5+-
Good point, Donatevo. Alot of people don't realize Torre actually played. And, he didn't suck
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JuTMSY4Legend
781 days ago
Score 1+-
the real question is...can you the name the managers who never played in "the show," i believe there are 2 or 3...(i could be way off)
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Silencer76AAA-er
781 days ago
Score 2+-
Actually there are 7 current managers who never played in the bigs: Jim Leyland, Dave Trembley, Fredi Gonzalez, Grady Little, Manny Acta, Joe Maddon, and John McLaren.
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AngeHammJV Squad
781 days ago
Score 4+-
I'm a Red Sox fan. I loathe the Yankees with every beat of my heart and every breath of my body. The name "Derek Jeter" makes my fists clench and my teeth grind.

But they're idiots if they don't re-sign Joe Torre.

What has he done for them lately? How about meld a clubhouse full of superstars into a miraculously selfless ensemble? How about preside over one of the most amazing offenses in history? How about make the playoffs TWELVE straight years, winning the pennant half of those years?

The problem isn't Torre. The problem is getting outpitched in the playoffs since 2000. The problem is giving up four straight to Boston in 2004, a wound that doesn't heal quickly. The problem is too much reliance on old pitchers. The problem is that winning is much harder than Torre's team made it look in the 1990s. And the problem is that Steinbrenner, healthy or no, has lunatic expectations that are passed on to the Yankee faithful as somehow reasonable. The double problem is that he backs his expectations up with an equally lunatic bankroll. You can't buy a championship; I'm a Redskins fan, trust me.

AL baseball is at its best when the Yanks and Sox are both great. Joe Torre makes the Yankees great.
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TylersaltAll-Star
781 days ago
Score 1+-
I like the cut of your jive.
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WoodsmeisterVarsity Captain
781 days ago
Score 1+-
"AL baseball is at its best when the Yanks and Sox are both great."

Can the rest of us come play in your league? Please? Oh - that's right, the rest of us are just there to have teams upon which the Yankees and Sawx can dominate to display their greatness.

Do you work for ESPN? That statement is certainly condescending enough to get you considered for employment in Bristol.
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Niteowl049AAA-er
781 days ago
Score 0+-
Yankees have never been the same since the Red Sox debacle when they couldn't hold a three games to none lead. That to me is the most amazing comeback in sports and David Ortiz was a big part of it and may be one of the greatest clutch players in the history of baseball.
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WoodsmeisterVarsity Captain
781 days ago
Score 0+-
<sarcasm>If the current Yankees were really "True Yankees", then they would have learned from the humiliation of losing to the Sawx and it would have made them stronger and more determined. Therefore, because they didn't they are not True Yankees and therefore we might as well get rid of them all, starting with the manager. Pitching, schmitching! True Yankees would rise to the occasion because they were inhabited by the spirit of Lou Gehrig and Babe Ruth, driving them on to glory despite all obstacles.</sarcasm> It's been 3 years. I don't think 2004 matters a hill of beans any more to anyone but Sawx fans.
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Niteowl049AAA-er
781 days ago
Score 0+-
Joe Torre had 2352 hits..252 home runs..1185 RBI's...297 lifetime average..five 100 RBI seasons..led NL in hitting with a .363 average in 1971 with Cardinals..won 1971 NL MVP defeating second place Willie Stargell who hit 48 home runs that season. He also had two 200 hit seasons and was a nine time All Star.
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DicekmaniaVarsity
781 days ago
Score 1+-
Torre has been a great manager for NY, has handled George and media as well as anyone, which is probably a much harder job than managing the teams he's had. He's always had talent, but has gotten the best of that talent. The only knock on him is his reliance on certain pitchers and the over use of them. Torre has been great for the Yankees, but all good things must come to an end. Putting new blood in that job may work or it may backfire. One thing is for sure the Yankee players on the past and present know Torre knows how to manage a team!
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Niteowl049AAA-er
781 days ago
Score 0+-
As a manager Torre was 286-420 with the Mets...257-229 with Braves...351-354 with Cardinals and 1173-767 with Yankees. Torre had four 100 win seasons with Yankees but only won the World Series in one of those years. The 2000 Yankees only won 87 games but won the World Series. Yankees won AL East in 10 of 12 seasons with Yankees. Managers with a lot worse records than Torre are in no danger of being fired. It is like when the Yankees fired Yogi Berra because he lost the World Series. In contrast Clint Hurdle has managed the Rockies for six years and during the first five years the Rockies never won more than 76 games and had not finished higher than fourth place. It matters a lot what city a manager manages in. Teams with heavy media coverage seem to have less tolerance for losing. Pirates kept Lloyd McLendon despite having four straight losing seasons and finally fired him during his fifth losing season.
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MetsJetsDevilsDraft Pick
781 days ago
Score 1+-
Here is the thing about baseball. Managers basically don't matter. Give these guys the talent to win and more often than not, they will win.

I have no idea if Joe Torre is a better manager than Jim Tracy. What I do know is that Joe Torre had an all-star team throughout his career with the Yankees and Jim Tracy had a pretty good AAA team with the Pirates.

This is not to take away from Joe Torre's accomplishments. He won a lot of games. However, in my opinion, in the years he had the best team, he won (with the possible exception of 2003 when the Ynaks probably should have won). In the years he didn't have the best team, such as the last few years, he didn't win.
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PolostatmanSoccer Kid
781 days ago
Score 1+-
JOE MUST STAY!!!
Permalink | Reply
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