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Trizz
Officially #10 on the AGM Top Fans List....Xinoph, Crackjg I'm gunning for your spots bwah ha ha ha HA!

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Still cocky, still arrogant, still with a complete disregard for AP writing style...its none other than Trizz

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Trizz vs. The Rooney Rules

by Trizz
created January 10, 2008, last edited February 10, 2009
16
Vote


Ahhh January, the time of year where we don't quite care about college basketball yet, nor the NBA, the MLB's hot stove has cooled off, and its all about the pigskin. First we have the BCS, which we all hate yet we all watch and then its the NFL playoffs, win or go home, and then its one of my favorite things about football when teams grab their best Donald Trump toupee and tell coaches "You're fired."

Then comes the frantic carousel on who will replace him, do you go with the unproven coordinator, the big name college guy, do you go with the old schooler, do you hire from within or do you hire the token black guy. I know the Rooney rules was initially put in place to help black coaching candidates but I think of it as more of a backhanded compliment. Like, hey you're black how would like an interview, you probably won't get the job but we'll humor you.

It's like that Seinfeld episode, where George tries to convince his boss he has black friends. I understand that black coaches wasn't in the norm but we are in a different time, I think interviewing someone because they are black is just as insulting as not interviewing them. I mean sure some people get lucky like Mike Tomlin, who was pretty unqualified but he's doing a hell of a job but then you have Art Shell, who was downright awful.

Take Mike "Always a bridesmaid, never a bride" Singletary, who is often the token black candidate he gets plenty of interviews because of his skin color, but he's only a linebackers coach not even a coordinator. He goes on numerous interviews only to not be hired, is it because he has a sweaty handshake, perhaps, but its because teams don't think he can lead their team to Lombardis but they humor him just to meet their minority quota.

You look at Tony Dungy, Lovie Smith, Romeo Crennel, Herm Edwards they are known as great coaches. If they ever have to look for another coaching gig they will be interviewed because of their talent not because they are black (well maybe not Herm Edwards, he sucks he'll be the token black guy).

Yes, I'm well aware that in SOME cases, racism still exists but it appears every time someone of color gets fired, or criticized they are they are quick to play the 2 of clubs. (Yes, I declare the race card the 2 of clubs, I don't know why but it is) and more often than not its not the case.

{For the record, if Mike Singletary gets hired this year, this post never happened lol}


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The PipDiv-I Stud
704 days ago
Score 1+-
I'm sorry but the rule serves a good purpose and has ahd a good effect. The number of guys that got JOBS that otherwise would not have is unreal. Give it another 5-10 years then it can be dumped.
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Steel TownDraft Pick
703 days ago
Score 0+-
Give it 50 more years, what is the problem with the rule. It's not like it requires hiring quotas. It just says that teams must consider minorities.
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Oh No RomoDraft Pick
704 days ago
Score 0+-
We're not talking about Mr. Rooney are we?
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False ProphetAll-Star
704 days ago
Score 2+-
How about Mike Tomlin, who wouldn't have been considered but for the rooney rule, and he ends up leading his team to the playoffs, where although they lose, it was an amazing game, and they lost their star RB for the season, yet they kept fighting.
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Steel TownDraft Pick
703 days ago
Score 1+-
Yeah, that is an excellent example. Part of the reason he got the Interview was because of the Rooney rule. But once he got his foot in the door he showed he was the best canidate for the job.
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JuTMSY4Legend
703 days ago
Score 0+-
how about Ray Rhodes...who was terrible? Color doesn't make coaches better or worse at coaching...
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Steel TownDraft Pick
703 days ago
Score 1+-
It doesn't mean you have to hire them, it just gets their foot in the door where it otherwise may not have.
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JuTMSY4Legend
703 days ago
Score 0+-
i understand that, but i think its stupid

How many teams just go through the motions...some teams come in with an open mind, but others have already picked their candidates...think about the dolphins for a second...if you don't think Parcells's already knows who he wants, you're crazy...

so while you might be right to some extent, i'd argue that all it really does is force the issue, when in fact teams are already looking for their best fit...

besides, there should be any difference between a white LB coach and a black O-line coach, etc etc...except for their ideas, plans, etc...
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Steel TownDraft Pick
703 days ago
Score 2+-
You know, I think we both feel the same about the Rooney rule, yet somehow we have come to different conclusions. Your right, a lot of teams will just go though the motions (I think that's what the Steelers were doing). But, on the other hand, that token interview may land a guy a job, or at least get the attention of other teams around the league. Parcells may know who he wants to hire, but lets say he is impressed with the minority canidate he interviews. what happens when he tells his peers: "so and so really impressed me, that guy will be a good coach". All I'm saying is that it helps open some doors and I don't see why that is "dumb" as you put it. When I was looking for a job after I sold my business, I took any interview I could get. I even had one guy tell me at the beginning of the interview that they were planning on hiring from within. I've been working there for 5 years. I impressed him enough to get a second interview, and I almost didn't go 'cause I thought they were just going through the motions. It never hurts to get a chance to say your piece.
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Steel TownDraft Pick
703 days ago
Score 1+-
You said "stupid" not dumb. My bad.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
703 days ago
Score 1+-
you're probably right...

I'm also more of an idealist...

IMO, when you're running any organization, you're looking for the best man/woman for the job

Of course, I understand i doesn't always happen this way
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Napoleon15Red-Shirting
704 days ago
Score 0+-
I agree with you, Trizz. I hate political correctness.
Permalink | Reply
GeodanVarsity
704 days ago
Score 1+-
This is often a volatile subject. There are solid points to be made on both sides of the argument. One thing we must remember is the past. Past practices prove that fairness and equitable treatment was not a part of the NFL and by extension, most sports and society at large.

When we live in a society that says a black man can be a blue collar worker (ie. a labourer) and doesn't possess the skills to be a white collar worker, there are injustices that exist. The field of play is not level. This is real not perceived. And the result is no job equity. A paradigm shift is necessary in these sort of matters. A new way of thinking. A way of recognizing wrongs were done and there has to be change. In comes policies like the Rooney Rule. Shouts of reverse-discrimination are heard but steps toward a just society must be taken. Maybe fifty years of hiring only black men would be a better policy.

In my humble opinion it is evident that much thought and consideration was used in taking future steps by the league. Let's give them a chance. Time will prove there actions as even-handed and fair.
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The PipDiv-I Stud
703 days ago
Score -1+-
The term "reverse-discrimination" is a bigot's way of justifying his beliefs. The issue is that someone like Romeo Crennel did not need the rule, however tell me Tony Dungy did. The filed is not quite level enough for my liking.
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JuTMSY4Legend
703 days ago
Score 1+-
"The term "reverse-discrimination" is a bigot's way of justifying his beliefs." - I take offense to that...you, in essence have actually created your own version of stereotyping...
Permalink
The PipDiv-I Stud
703 days ago
Score 0+-
I may be guilty of stereotyping in this respect. I have seen affirmative action type rules go too far: I had a white friend that became a firefighter due to a class action lawsuit based on that concept. So I understand that the law can over-compensate but reverse discrimination implies that the law is intentionally trying to over-compensate. That to me is where the term gets dirtied, because there is no way we are near the point of intentionally writing laws (or any type of non-governmental agency, company, or organization)that are intentionally discriminatory toward white people. It is the inflammatory use of this word to scare white people that makes it the tool of bigots. That is where my prejudice comes into play. Yes I am pre-judging. The difference that should make it ok, is that I am being honest about it and explaining how and why I'm pre-judging the use of a certain word.

But with respect to the NFL: Fritz Pollard 1925 Art Shell 1988

They have 63 years of history to work with. 5-10 more years is the right time frame with which to re-address this policy. There is no way the rule has by any stretch of the imagination over-compensated by giving unqualified people coaching jobs that they do not deserve. It is giving qualified people a chance, and that is fair, just, and acceptable to me.

It is also causing people to talk about the issue, which is also good, for it will prevent things from going "too far".
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
703 days ago
Score 0+-
quick thought... "Take Mike "Always a bridesmaid, never a bride" Singletary, who is often the token black candidate he gets plenty of interviews because of his skin color, but he's only a linebackers coach not even a coordinator. " - Andy Reid was a QBs coach when he was hired...and i'd argue he's a pretty damn good coach...
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JuTMSY4Legend
703 days ago
Score 1+-
To deny that racism doesn't exist is stupid...

but to make it simplied, let's take the microcosm of the NFL, because that's what we're talking about

Here's why I believe the Rooney rule is dumb:

The NFL, within it self is free market and a meritocracy...the teams that are the best rule it and there is little to deny this fact. Even a team that is historically bad can rise up and be the king of the league, making tons of cash and piling on wins and trophies. The New England Patriots are a prime example.

They were, in all reality, never beloved in Boston/New England until recently. Sure they had 2 SB appearences, but they were (and still are, to some extent) a second fiddle (or even 3rd) to the Sox or Celtics...

But they're a top 5 franchise in the NFL, namely through revenues and value.

So what does it take to get there? Well, you gotta win and do it well. So, as an NFL team, when you're trying to build success, do you care what color your coordinators, coaches, GMs and Players are.

I would argue not...its all about results

Now you could argue that certain races have a harder track to be recognized, but in the end, anytime you're searching for a coach, you look for the best fit and the guy who will put you on top...

I think when tampa was looking in the mid-90s, they picked right (Dungy) and look what he rewarded them and then Indy with...
Permalink | Reply
The PipDiv-I Stud
703 days ago
Score 2+-
And in an environment where black coordinators are not getting the chance to become head coaches you would want black coordinators more because you know they weren't going anywhere, which would help your team win. Meritocracies work both ways. Sandbagging is a part of that, and that was the issue. Now my example was extreme and we were not there yet, but the Tony Dungy thing was an example of what would have happened had the NFL not been pressured to act. Tony Dungy should have been a head coach almost 5 years sooner! His record as a head coach is an greater argument for the Rooney rule. Good people were not even getting a chance because of their skin color and that was criminal. The NFL acted, with a fair rule that did not install quotas but rather just gave people a chance, and it has worked out very well! Without the Rooney Rule Marvin Lewis would still be a coordinator. Granted he's not a great coach, but he took the Bengals to the playoffs! The Bengals! The guy deserved a head coaching job.
Permalink
GeodanVarsity
703 days ago
Score 1+-
We're all winners when we can discuss a hot topic such as this without getting singed. We can be part of the solution this way. When the time comes that men (coaches in this instance) are given opportunities based on their merits, with no extraneous attached stigma, then we rejoice in the accomplishment. I fear that that time is still far off. Looking forward to when all the Tony Dungy's of the world get a fair shake.
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
703 days ago
Score 0+-
fair shake?


Well, one thing I've argued is that affirmative action sometimes creates over-representation

For example one would say that the african-american society is underrepresented, which is sort of true and sort of not. For example, there is one Supreme court Justice who is black (Clarence Thomas) and the US population is approx 12% black...so it adds up

Moreover, if anyone should be upset, its women, as there is only 1 female justice and the nation is over 50% female...(hahaha)

So, if we apply this to the NFL, disregarding the vacancies (Skins, Falcons, Dolphins) we get about 20% of NFL head coaches as african-american (Dungy, Lewis, Edwards, Crennel, Smith & Tomlin)...so they could be overrepresented as is...


the counter to this is, of course, that the african-american population in the NFL is proportionally much greater than US overall
Permalink
GeodanVarsity
703 days ago
Score 0+-
How about the disproportion of African-American males in U.S. prisons. We can go on and on. If coaches are drawn from a select pool of candidates (ie. people who play the game or are associated with teaching sports) then let's be reasonable. The numbers are skewed. And not in a good way. Coaches in the NFL should not necessarily be representative of the ratios inherent in the population.
Permalink | Reply
SSreportersLegend
703 days ago
Score 0+-
I tend not to get into this stuff, but it's sad that 40 years later, after all of the "progress" Americans have made with blacks, it's still an issue to have someone of color in power.
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
703 days ago
Score 0+-
whats funny is you ain't seen nothin' yet. Think about this... modern societies have taken literally thousands of years to get women where there are...and these were societies that, arguably, had little influence of color (think like medieval england or something) and it took that long to get women where they are

To me, that argument that about how little progress we've made is unfair...

Its an issue, but its deeper than idealists like you or I to say it shouldn't be...

Yes, you or I could pick the best coach (hypothetically) or manager or president...but the country or the world isn't just you or me

different people, different thoughts, different ideas...

its really philosophical, but there's more to it than saying someone should be equal...

that's the problem...and the answer...
Permalink
GeodanVarsity
703 days ago
Score 0+-
Whether a Clinton or an Obama is the next president of the United States shouldn't matter. Their qualification to do the job should. Does there heart and mind belong to the betterment of all. Can they be trusted. Colour or sex become obsolete.

Americans come in all shapes and sizes, all colours that exist in the world. This fact is something that should be embraced.

This has moved way beyond football.
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JuTMSY4Legend
703 days ago
Score 1+-
that kinda goes back to my point about the NFL being a meritocracy in the end, its who can win...and winning makes money...
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
703 days ago
Score 0+-
And money is good to these people.
Permalink
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Categories: Opinions | Opinions by User Trizz | January 10, 2008 | January 2008

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