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LouGehrig
I have been a Yankees fan for many years. Thanks to what has occurred during the last few years, I am beginning to wonder.

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The 1953 Brooklyn Dodgers Were Better Than the 1975 Cincinnati Reds -- Or Were They?

by LouGehrig
created July 15, 2008, last edited February 10, 2009
11
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By Harold Friend

One of the greatest teams of all time, a team that lost the World Series in six games, a team that was better than the 1975 World Champion Cincinnati Reds, was the 1953 Brooklyn Dodgers. Brooklyn's eight starting players included Hall of Famers Jackie Robinson in left field, Duke Snider in center field, PeeWee Reese at shortstop, and Roy Campanella behind the plate. Gil Hodges, who should be in the Hall of Fame, was at first, Jim Gilliam played second, Billy Cox played third, and Carl Furillo was in right. The Dodgers won 105 games while losing only 49 (.682), finishing 13 games ahead of the runner up Braves. They hit 208 home runs and averaged 6.16 runs a game. Brooklyn's Achilles heel was the pitching staff.

The Great 1975 Reds

The 1975 Cincinnati Reds were a similar team. Their eight starters included Hall of Famers Johnny Bench behind the plate, Tony Perez at first base, and Joe Morgan at second. Just as Brooklyn's Gil Hodges belongs in the Hall of Fame, so does Pete Rose. The irony is that their characters were so different. The 1975 Reds won 108 and lost 54 (.667), winning the Western Division by 20 games over Los Angeles. They hit 124 home runs and averaged 5.19 runs a game, but like Brooklyn, their pitching staff was suspect.

Comparing the Infields

Gil Hodges was better than Tony Perez. Yes, Perez is in the Hall of Fame, but Hodges and Perez are extremely close statistically. While both were great leaders, Hodges was the greatest right handed defensive first baseman to ever play the game, which gives him the edge. Joe Morgan has a great advantage over Gilliam at second, although the latter was a fine player who was an excellent lead off hitter. At third base, Billy Cox was light years ahead of Pete Rose defensively, but Pete was a better hitter and added a dimension of intensity to his team that few ever matched. PeeWee Reese was a notch below Dave Concepcion with respect to defensive range, but Reese was steady in the field, a better hitter than Concepcion, and like Hodges, one of the great quiet leaders in the game's history. Thanks to Morgan and Rose, the infield edge goes to Cincinnati.

The Dodgers' Outfield Was Better

Brooklyn's outfield of Robinson, Snider, and Furillo was clearly superior to the Reds' Foster, Geronimo, and Griffey. Despite a few great seasons, Foster wasn't close to Robinson. Snider was one of the great centerfielders of all time, and while Geronimo was a great defensive outfielder, he usually didn't hit much. Furillo and Griffey are close. Carl had more power, Griffey had more speed, and both were great defensive outfielders. Brooklyn gets a substantial edge in the outfield.

Roy Campanella was as Good as Johnny Bench

Johnny Bench and Roy Campanella were both great catchers. Bench's first full season was 1968, but after catching 105 games in 1980, he played other positions. Campanella was a major leaguer for only 10 seasons, but it was not his fault that he wasn't allowed to play in the big leagues before 1947. Bench batted .267 and Campanella batted .276. Bench averaged 29 home runs and 103 RBIs over a 162 game season. Campanella averaged 32 home runs and 114 RBIs over a 162 game season, which probably surprises some individuals. When comparing the two, it's pick 'em.

Brooklyn and Cincinnati Lacked Strong Pitching

Likely Page Break Brooklyn's pitching or lack of pitching is what cost them the 1953 World Series. Except for 20 game winner Carl Erskine, the staff was average at best. Russ Meyer, Preacher Roe, Billy Loes, and Johnny Podres had decent, but not outstanding careers. Cincinnati's pitching staff was similar. Jack Billingham, Gary Nolan, Don Gullett, Fred Norman, Pat Darcy, and Clay Kirby have never been confused with Sandy Koufax or Don Drysdale.

What If They Played Today?

The 1953 Brooklyn Dodgers were a little better than the 1975 Cincinnati Reds, but it is acknowledged that so many variables exist that it could very well be the other way around. However, despite the variables, wouldn't it be fascinating to see either one of those team face the best of today's teams? With apologies to those who keep Pete Rose out of the Hall of Fame, put your money on the Dodgers or Reds.

References:

The 1953 Dodgers on Baseball-Reference

The 1975 Reds on Baseball-Reference

Roy Campanella on Armchairgm


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KelsdadAll-Star
485 days ago
Score 0+-
Pete Rose should be out of the Hall of Fame, and Gil Hodges is not a Hall of Famer.

The Dodgers starting OF in '53, by games played were Furillo, Snider and Don Thompson. Robinson played 76 games in LF in '53, not all of them starts. By all accounts, he was a below average outfielder in all aspects, including his arm. There's no questioning his status as an infielder, as an outfielder he was below average.

On the other hand, while Foster, too, had a below average arm, he covered alot of ground and made only three errors in over 300 total chances in left.

Foster may not have been a Gold Glover, he was, however, a far better outfielder than Jackie.
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The oldest manVarsity
485 days ago
Score 0+-
Lou I agree whole heartedly with your comments and article. Right down the line the Dodgers are a better ballclub. Both lacked the pitching but like the man says "Put your money on the Brooklyn Dodgers. If they had had good or great pitching the end result of the series would have been Dodgers 4-1. Yes, I would pick Campy over Bench anyday anytime, Campy was a better catcher and called a better game behind the plate. Behind the plate Campy had few peers and Bench wasn't one of them. Bench made a lot of mistakes and his one handed catching style isn't what makes great defensive play
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LouGehrigRed-Shirting
484 days ago
Score 0+-
I saw most of Campy's career, but what is different is that I am a Yankees fan. Evaluating players when you want to beat them is quite different from evaluating your players who you want to win.

Campanella was one of the all time greats. He was as good a defensive catcher as ever played the game, and offensively, he was a tremendous threat. Few remember his injuries, which seemed to occur in alternate seasons, but when he was healthy, he hit for average and for power. And as I stated, his career was shortened because of his pigmentation.

I love Berra, but after seeing them, there is no doubt that Campy was Yogi's equal.

Hodges was the greatest right handed defensive first baseman in the history of the game. He was as great an all around player as Tony Perez. To me, NEITHER is a Hall of Famer, but if Perez gets in, Hodges gets in.

And sadly, for me, Hodges led the team that pulled off the greatest miracle in baseball history. The Mets not only came from ninth in 1968 to World Champions in 1969 -- they overcame a 9 1/2 game lead beginning on August 9 to do it.

The Red Sox finished ninth in 1966 and won the pennant in 1967, but when it comes to the Red Sox and Mets, it's no contest. The 1967 Red Sox couldn't finish it off. The 1969 did. Hodges was the manager and he had as much to do with their winning as Seaver and Koosman. Just ask Cleon.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
485 days ago
Score 0+-
Furillo too, was a below average OF. While he may have had the best throwing arm in the National League, his range was poor. Playing in the short right field at Ebbets Field made him look better than he was, in larger parks like St. Louis and Milwaukee, Furillo struggled to make even routine plays.
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The oldest manVarsity
485 days ago
Score 0+-
Hodges was one of the best first baseman of his time. Defensive and at the plate. More power than Rose and you didn't have to worry about his friends and gambling problems and the only chemical or substance he used was tobacco and I don't even know if you used that. Rose hit the ball on the ground 80% of the time on artifical surface that allowed grounders to go for hits when in natural turf it was mostly an out. Below average hardly Robinson put something in the game that needs to return CLASS and a love to play the sport that is missing today. Today it is money money money bottomline what can you give me to play. 300 chances for what to keep the ball in play because you can't throw out the runners going from first to third. He threw behind the lead runners most of the time where as Snider was the best of all the center fielders and Furillo was no Snider but he made the throws that had to be made and was a great clutch hitter and understood the game..
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The oldest manVarsity
485 days ago
Score 0+-
Kelsday, I watched the Brooklyn Dodgers play a lot of games and Furillo was far better than Foster. Playing in Ebbets was harder than in Cincy and the larger parks just made it harder for Foster even his speed could help him if he couldn't deliver the ball where it was supposed to be. Furillo as he got older did struggle as you say on routine plays but he was more than average in LA the first year but got real old real fast after that.
Permalink | Reply
KelsdadAll-Star
485 days ago
Score 1+-
Just taking everything into context with the article, meaning we are only talking the '53 Dodgers v the '75 Reds....

Foster over Robinson, Snider over Geronimo, Griffey over Furillo.

The fact Hodges was one of the better defensive first baseman of all time doesn't make him a Hall of Famer. Certainly not with less than 2000 hits and a .273 BA, (in 18 years).

I'm going to disagree with one statement, sir. Playing in Ebbetts was easier than playing in Riverfront. The "real estate" he had to cover was smaller, thereby covering his main weakness (range). In Riverfront, Griffey had to deal with the turf, which, coming from experience, is a bitch to play on. It makes the field seem bigger because of how the ball skids instead of bounces.
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Baltimoresports247All-American
484 days ago
Score 0+-
Interesting perspective...i like it...nice work, man...
Permalink | Reply
KelsdadAll-Star
484 days ago
Score 0+-
And as I stated, his career was shortened because of his pigmentation. I'm not really sure I understand the context of what you mean by that, Lou.
Permalink | Reply
KelsdadAll-Star
484 days ago
Score 0+-
And for the record, not that it matters, but the '76 Reds were better than the '75 Reds.
Permalink | Reply
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Categories: Opinions | Opinions by User LouGehrig | July 15, 2008 | July 2008 | MLB Opinions | Brooklyn Dodgers Opinions | Cincinnati Reds Opinions | Pete Rose Opinions | Jackie Robinson Opinions | Gil Hodges Opinions | Duke Snider. Opinions

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