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Jakeblloyd

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Suns look out of sorts with O'Neal

by Jakeblloyd
created March 04, 2008, last edited February 10, 2009
13
Vote

The more I watch the Phoenix Suns play basketball, the more I can't help but question the blockbuster trade that sent Shawn Marion to Miami for Shaquille O'Neal.

I hate to say this, but the Suns are no longer the NBA team I enjoy watching the most. They're not even in my top five.

Not that G.M. Steve Kerr or anyone within the organization cares about my viewing interests, but they do care about finally getting to the NBA Finals. If I were them, I'd worry first about making the playoffs in the brutal Western Conference.

Phoenix has lost its identity. If it wants to make the postseason, it better rediscover it or create a new one ASAP. That's where the trade gets in the way.

Think about it: What, before the trade, made the Suns such a dangerous team?

1. Their ability to run. Steve Nash would get the ball with four options spaced to his right and left. Now, when O'Neal is on the floor, there are just three players racing downcourt in front of Nash. Big difference. The Suns' transition baskets have dipped big-time.

2. Room to work for Nash in the half-court offense. This is huge. Nash used to be able to dribble from the top of the key down to the baseline, along the baseline, and then back out top -- all the while looking for the open man. Now, "The Diesel" gets in the way. He's simply too big, and he's not nearly as agile as Amare Stoudemire. Phoenix's half-court offense -- which pundits said would improve with O'Neal -- has gotten worse.

The Suns say they made the deal for defense. But here's the problem, and I'm surprised that the former champion Kerr didn't realize this: Defense is more about a team's attitude and mentality than its makeup. Sure, the Pistons haven't been nearly as good defensively sans Ben Wallace, but the reason for this has been that Flip Saunders doesn't stress "D" to the extent that Larry Brown did.

As long as coach Mike D'Antoni doesn't make defense a huge priority -- something I don't see happening -- the Suns are not going to be a good defensive team. Period. They certainly haven't been since O'Neal's arrival.

Phoenix is 2-4 with O'Neal, and five of their opponents have scored at least 113 points. Only an anemic 77-point showing by the Celtics made the Suns' defense look good. Otherwise, it's appeared even more vulnerable than pre-Diesel. In other words, very bad.

The Suns' ability to stop people has been so poor, the Grizzlies scored 113 points and the 76ers put up 119. Any time you allow Willie Green 17 points, you know you're doing something wrong.

The Suns are giving up 104.9 points per game this season. I'm sure this number has gotten a ripe boost over the last two weeks.

Kerr n' company might not admit it, but they might be realizing just how much the team misses Marion's versatility. O'Neal is the opposite of Marion. At his old age, he is limited in what he can do. He's slow to run up the court, you can only post him up on offense, he can't shoot free throws, and on defense he's not a great shot-blocker.

Marion, on the other hand, is a high-flyer who can do it all -- finish on transition, shoot the 3-pointer, guard shooting guards and power forwards, rebound.

Most important, Marion was a perfect fit in Phoenix's system. He and Nash had a great working relationship, and the rift between him and Stoudemire was overblown. Plus, he was young. At 29, Marion probably has another good six or seven years in the NBA. O'Neal, 35, might be out of the league by 2010.

I don't question O'Neal's desire. I know he truly wants to prove that he can be the man to push Phoenix over the top. And come playoff time -- if there is a playoff time in the desert -- he'll do whatever it takes to make that happen. But whether that's enough is another question.

The more I see the Suns play, the more I view the trade as a panic move. The Lakers had taken a huge step forward by acquiring Pau Gasol for close to nothing. The Spurs are, well, the Spurs. Kerr thought that a change was needed. I tend to disagree.

It's not as if the Suns haven't come close -- really close -- to getting to the finals. Consider last season. If not for the suspensions of Stoudemire and Boris Diaw for Game 5 of the conference semifinals against the Spurs, there's a decent chance Phoenix would have won that game and the series. Then, they certainly could have beaten the Jazz in the conference finals.

Go back two years. If not for a huge Dallas comeback in the Mavericks' clinching Game 6 victory, the Suns would have taken the Mavs to a winner-takes-all Game 7 with a finals appearance on the line.

The Suns have been on the brink of making the finals -- so close that a personnel shift wasn't needed. All they needed was a few more big plays. A block by Stoudemire here, a few more midrange jumpers by Diaw there (which he's provided this season), a little more defense by Nash everywhere.

It's still too early to write off the new-look Suns. We'll likely have to wait until April or May to do that.

But early indications are that they made an unnecessary trade that not only will hurt them in the long run, but isn't paying off in the present either.


Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
SSreportersLegend
619 days ago
Score 1+-
Wonder who said that one.
Permalink | Reply
TwinsTerritoryVarsity
619 days ago
Score 1+-
I still can't believe they made this deal. I changed their whole style of play. Not as fun to watch as they were running up and down the court...
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
619 days ago
Score -1+-

[edit] Somebody hold me back!!!!

The "more you watch the Suns"???

WHAT????

Which Phoenix Suns are you watching????


SHAQ is NOT the problem!!! Not at all!!!

Shaq and Leandro Barbosa have been the only 2 guys in purple and orange to show up each game over the past two weeks.

If you want the rest of my analysis, it's gonna cost you - because I'm not ripping Steve Nash's effort, HORRIBLY PUTRID turnovers or calling him old and easily abusable on defense, I'm not ripping the Suns COMPLETE lack of urgency, utter disregard for hustle and nightmarish shooting the last 3 weeks and I'm not calling Shawn Marion's stats the biggest myth in sports without payment!!! Ooops...

Seriously - if anyone blames the Suns recent performance AND says "I've been watching them" is a liar. Because I am a Suns fan with objectivity. I watch the games, every minute, not just the boxscores. And I'm very, very disappointed of analysis based on anything prior to the past three weeks...

The Suns are a target. EVERY team brings their BEST against the Suns. NO ONE was making these pop-off comments when the Suns smoked the Celtics...

Shaq has been everything he was supposed to be, the rest of the roster is what's letting us down - Nash, Hill, Bell, even Diaw and Amare have been "cruising" along.

And Shawn Marion wouldn't have made an ounce of difference - not a single ounce...

If they won't play hard, they will lose, period.
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
619 days ago
Score -1+-
"blame the Suns recent performance" on Shaq - is what I meant to type...
Permalink
Taytay 24All-American
618 days ago
Score 2+-
I'm not saying if I agree or disagree. But I don't think anyone would confuse you with an "objective" Suns fan.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
618 days ago
Score 0+-
As long as there's a Dukie on the team...

Last year, I agree with you. This year, I'm just a very closely observing guy that wants the Suns to do well so my wife can be happy.

I've got nothing riding on it otherwise, so yes - I consider myself very onjective.

I know the difference between "want" and "is" quite well...
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
619 days ago
Score -1+-
I seriously could not possibly disagree with this article more...
Permalink | Reply
IbeargRed-Shirting
618 days ago
Score 1+-
I'm gonna put it right out there... i haven't watched too much of the suns with or without shaq, but i didn't like the trade to begin with and from what little i have seen i think it's backed up my misgivings...

i think the problem with your analysis manny is that while shaq may be playing well he doesn't help the team overall. the idea behind getting shaq was to get better defensively... but you're right the rest of the guys aren't good defenders... so consequently the team won't be good any good defensively with or without him. the suns that i know, where still pretty good in the half court before the trade with nash and stoudemire running pick and roles and everyone else spacing the floor. They may be better in the half court now, but i can't imagine it's that much better and i can't imagine they're as good fast breaking with shaq on the floor. the suns could never defend anyone but at least without shaq they could out run/outscore people.

it's early, but shaq's on court off court plus minus is -17 right now compared to marions +11 before he left. the stats seem to suggest my analysis is right... the suns are better defensively with shaq, but not as good offensively. maybe it's just effort of the rest of the guys, and certainly as i said it's early... but i think no matter what shaq does the way he's going to interact with this team are not going to make them better.
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
618 days ago
Score -1+-
Stats, schmatz - what's their +/- overall????? REGARDLESS of amrion and Shaq???

In all blatent honesty - the Suns are so happy to have Shaq around and are so loose and chilled in the lockerroom that they forgot they need to play hard to win.

That's ALL it is.

Time to get back to work boys. No one is gonna hand you wins.

They have played LA-ZY and have shown ZERO heart. They have played like they are supposed to win just by putting their unis on... that's NOT gonna happen.

And here's MY personal rub - and I am willing to admit it - Steve Nash has played like shit except for a few spurts here and there. I don't know if he's hurt or getting old or what... Teams have collapsed on his dribble and forced him into stupid, STOO-PID turnovers. Un-Steve Nash-like turnovers. Go ahead, stat boy - look Nash's and the team's turnover numbers up...

For instance - the last game against the Sixers - the Suns were down SIXTEEN with 4 minutes left before deciding "Oh we we're supposed to win this game!" and getting within 2 before a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE phantom call (no excuses, but it was one of the worst calls I've EVER seen - but the game had NO business being that close to begin with) on an inbounds play that put the game out of reach for good.

Yeah, Nash had 10 of his 22 points and 4 of his 11 assists in the last 4 minutes. (6 points in the last 30 seconds) You gotta play 48 minutes, not just 4 if you're gonna win.

Stats say one thing - watching the games is a MUCH better indication.

I'm not worried, just concerned... they better wake up.

Shaq has done everything asked of him and like me and wifey have been saying - they're ALL gonna blame it on him.

Listen to D'Antoni - he doesn't mince words to be nice - he's said it too -it has NOTHING to do with Shaq. If they don't bring some intensity, they won't make the playoffs!
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
618 days ago
Score -1+-
And Marion was a beneficiary, not a catalyst... I bet 25% of his lifetime rebounds are on his own misses.
Permalink
IbeargRed-Shirting
618 days ago
Score 2+-
i'm stat boy now lol... i looked up one stat to see if it backed up what i was thinking and shockingly it did. you are correct marion was a beneficiary, but you need someone actlly able to benefit from the things others can do. I would imagine shaq because of his lack of athletic ability can't benefit as well from the things nash does as well as marion can. similarly posting up shaq down low doesn't give nash the room he needs or the spacing he needs to do what he's been doing as an mvp. I don't and won't blame any of their failures on shaq... I just think it was doomed from the start. It's like putting shaq on G.S. for al harrington... they're still gonna be a poor defensive team, but now they won't run you out of the building anymore. P.S. I'm just putting this out there i'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything, but... i heard chemistry was such an issue beforehand and they got rid of the "cancer", shouldn't they be playing better/harder? what happened?
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
618 days ago
Score -1+-
Stats vs. the flow of the games...

The Suns were a bad call away form winning a game they didn't start playing until they were down 16 with 4 minutes to go against the Sixers.

They barely lost that game - if they win waht are we talking about??

Thought so...

It comes down to one thing - EFFORT.

They haven't given it. While their opponents definitely have. How many guys have had career nights against the Suns in the past three weeks? It's not because the Suns are bad defensively or because their opponents are that good. Teams WANT to beat the Suns - and the Suns aren't rising to the challenge. Grant Hill has been horrible. Boris Diaw has been spotty, Nash has been human, even Amare has been inconsistent. The team as a whoile has gone cold shooting.

EFFORT - That's what it all comes down to...

Not Shaq. Other than a few moments of typical refs forced into making calls/foul issues, Shaq has been everything as advetised.

All I'm saying - Yes, the Suns have issues right now - Shaq isn't one of them, dealing Marion isn't another (P.S. - Shawn's numbers are the same or lower despite playing MORE minutes in Miami)...

But to reiterate - it's SIX games not in April, May or June - I'm not worried...
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
618 days ago
Score -1+-
To clarify - Marion wasn't a "cancer" as much as a killjoy.

Despite the "reports" Marion and Amare are friends. Marion just couldn't get over his third tier status... and it grinded on the team.

Having Shaq around haas been a pleasure - maybe too much so... There's been reports (and personal accounts I won't mention here) of the Suns "partying" more than they were prior to the Daddy's arrival - let's remember that Shaq is recently divorced... a "factor"?? eh?
Permalink
FrugolfVarsity Captain
618 days ago
Score 1+-
No offense Manny , but they were a bad call away from beating the 76ers, not exactly a big feat.I don't think they were a great team before the trade and my opinion hasn't changed.NO DEFENSE.
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
618 days ago
Score -1+-
The plain and simple looked right past the Sixers and - like I clearly said - were down 16 points with 4 minutes and waited until then to play.

Too little too late.

Sometimes a loss can be beneficial - hopefully this will wake these guys up and get better effort from them.
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
618 days ago
Score 0+-
I could not AGREE more for Jake's well articulated and thought provoking analysis of the current status of the Phoenix Suns. This team now resembles dragging mutts since the trade for Shaq. Pat Riley absolutely robbed Kerr on this deal. Jake is dead on with his assessment that this trade was a hasty decision on the part of the Suns and a knee jerk reaction to the Lakers move to get Gasol. The needle may be finally pointing to "E" on the Big Diesel's NBA career at the expense of a rather talented and once enjoyable championship contending basketball team.
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
618 days ago
Score -1+-
We'll see what you're all saying about it in June, won't we?

Hell, we'll see what you're saying NEXT WEEK.

Basketball experts from out of nowhere...
Permalink | Reply
Agent0Red-Shirting
617 days ago
Score 0+-
Come playoff time...this Shaq deal will...you will b ethinking it was the best ever!
Permalink | Reply
Anonymous Fanatic #1
617 days ago
Score 0+-
Suns defense, on the road looked pretty darned tough tonight with Shaq and his 13 boards and 3 blocks. Amare really had 4 hustle plays that caused turnovers that don't show up as steals, but they were. Nice Hustle!
Permalink | Reply
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Categories: Opinions | Opinions by User Jakeblloyd | March 4, 2008 | March 2008 | NBA Opinions

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