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JuTMSY4
The more you try to be different, the more you're just the same...

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Phils Get Hosed by Baseball Prospectus, Arlen Specter Fights Back

by JuTMSY4
created February 18, 2008, last edited June 15, 2008
17
Vote

I broke my coffee mug this morning. Not just any mug, but my favorite. The handle had a significant chip in it and was clearly ready to fall, but I didn’t look at the signs. All of it was in front of my eyes and I just ignored it. And then it broke.

Of course, I’m lying to you, I actually threw my mug against the wall, coffee and all, partly with a bad taste in my mouth, partly because my coffee was cold and partly because my morning reading pissed me off.

I wasn’t those Larry Fitzgerald rumors. I do think he’d be a great additional, even though the cost is incredibly high. It wasn’t Adam Eaton, Kris Benson, Chad Durbin, J.D. Durbin or anyone else who has no business being on a good baseball team. It wasn’t the Flyers ridiculous slide (for which I have no explanation). And it wasn’t even that guy on one of those stupid ESPN shows with Skip Bayless who stated (and I’m paraphrasing here): What most people don’t understand about Spygate is that Arlen Specter is from Philadelphia and wants to knows if the Patriots cheated in Super Bowl 39. If by most people you mean absolutely no one, then yes. (This was a close second)

None of those.

It was those ridiculous Bill James disciples over at Baseball Prospectus and their “predictions.”

Yeah, rip me all you want, math nerds, but truth of the matter is these guys have spent more time telling me how clutch isn’t real then getting laid. Sounds like the opposite of Babe Ruth if you ask me.

So Why Can’t it Happen Again?
So Why Can’t it Happen Again?

So what was it that flipped my lid? If you’ve read anything I’ve stated in the past, you could make one short Google entry and figure it out. Those number crunching schmucks picked my hometown Philadelphia Phillies to finish third. Not even second, but actually third. Look, I know the Phillies did little to keep up. I also know who Johan Santana and Tom Glavine are and how they change things. Coincidently, Brad Lidge, Pedro Feliz and Brett Myers certainly change the scenery. I think when you add it all up, you understand a lot of what The Phillies accomplished in 2007 was based on Jimmy Rollins and Aaron Rowand. And while admittedly, Rowand is gone, you understand that what they both accomplished wasn’t simply based on statistics but with sheer tenacity, leadership and other immeasurables.

I also know a little about finance and one thing I can tell you is that past performance does not ever (NEVER!!!) predict future results. In fact any wealth management company will disclose this fact immediately and moreover their advertisements must ensure this fact is established prior to most attempts at sale. I guess in baseball, the past always predicts the future. Where are you Kerry Wood?

I know there are people out there who worship the ground these guys walk on and I understand the value of numbers, especially in fantasy. But this is reality. Reality is that people do have minds and mentalities, they have injuries and health concerns, they have families, they have mental blocks, they have managers, they have situations, they have lives. They are human, right Murray Chass?

For those of you who don’t know. Murray Chass is a traditionalist among baseball, a baseball Hall of Famer and respected New York Times writer. He doesn’t like those nerds much more than I do. Mr. Chass and I live by feelings, by smelling the grass and by liking the dust and gravel off our lips. Smells like a good game today, doesn’t it Murray?

"I suppose that if stats mongers want to sit at their computers and play with these things all day long, that’s their prerogative. But their attempt to introduce these new-age statistics into the game threatens to undermine most fans’ enjoyment of baseball and the human factor therein. People play baseball. Numbers don’t.” -Murray Chass

It’s not that I truly hate any of these guys, even though I should probably start. There’s just a certain egotistical promotion by these guys. For one, their PECOTA rating is advertised as “deadly accurate.” Sadly, this isn’t because its dead on, but rather because its more dead on that anyone else. It’s sort of like being the best dart thrower I suppose.

Besides, If you listened to these guys, you'd know there's no reason to watch any game this season, its already been made clear. Gary Huckabay, I've got Bud Selig on Line One

Now that my sabermetics bashing is complete, it’s time to move on.

For those of you who have written, read and watched something at the exact same time, you know how I put this together, but I’ve been occasionally watching my Senator, Arlen Specter, inspect the Patriots, frame by frame I suppose.

So, uh, Rodney, How’d you get on the field in 2004?
So, uh, Rodney, How’d you get on the field in 2004?

Let me begin by saying, I don’t think Congress has any business checking this out. Much like steroids, you’d hope the league would take care of itself. That being said, the fact of the matter is, no league would try to fix something unless it had a dramatic affect on a measurable (meaning money). Look, if steroids had hurt the owners, it would have been gone before McGwire bashed 70 and Bonds 73.

In the NFL, Roger Goodell just wanted to make it go away and he almost did. Turns out you can’t avoid letters from Senior Senators who may or may not be among the most influential people in the country. But, while we’re digging up all the skeletons, why the hell not find out if the Pats are truly cheating bastards (as if Rodney Harrison being on the field wasn’t proof enough).

After reading some of the statements released by Patriots officials in today’s Boston Globe there is now little doubt in my mind the Pats built a dynasty on some questionable tactics. I’m just going to enjoy each tidbit as it comes out. After all, I’m a Philadelphia fan, what else am I going to get?

Besides, didn’t I say months ago that “Spygate” would be a black mark on the Pats forever?

Citations

David Murphy with “High Cheese”

Murray Chass of the New York Times


Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
SSreportersLegend
665 days ago
Score 0+-
Saying anything bad about the Patriots is forbidden!

And the Patriots aren't even a dynasty BTW.

As far as Spygate goes....crooked tactics are being investigated....by a politician. I like it.
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Smmonroe2Varsity Captain
665 days ago
Score -2+-
shouldnt congress be worried about more important things other than sports, like i dont know....the war!!!!
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JuTMSY4Legend
665 days ago
Score 0+-
I'm glad you read it too...
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Steel TownDraft Pick
665 days ago
Score -2+-
Are you under the impression that congress dropped everything in order to address the NFL? To be honest, I don't want the president or congress even thinking about the war. All they have done so far is make a mess of it.
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
665 days ago
Score 3+-
ST, then why do you want them to ruin the NFL too?
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SSreportersLegend
665 days ago
Score 0+-
You get rid of politicians then you get world peace.
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KelsdadAll-Star
665 days ago
Score 0+-
Easy, Justin. None of the guys over at BP ever played baseball either. They just make up shit for fun just so people can throw full coffee cups agains the wall.
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
665 days ago
Score 0+-
Hate to read about your reaction when hometown douchebag Howard Eskin picks the Phillies to finish last...
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Steel TownDraft Pick
665 days ago
Score 0+-
I once read a quote about statistics. I don't know who it was from or how it goes, but it was kinda funny. It compared statistics to a bikini, you can see a lot, but not everything.
Permalink | Reply
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
665 days ago
Score 2+-
What exactly were these statements that created "little doubt in [your] mind the Pats build a dynasty on some questionable tactics?"

Statements like...

"Even though I felt there was a gray area in the rule and I misinterpreted the rule, that was my mistake and we've been penalized for it. I apologize to everybody that is involved - the league, the other teams, the fans, our team, for the amount of conversation and dialogue that it's caused." -Belichick

Or this one?

"I have never authorized, or heard of, or even seen in any way, shape, or form any other team's walkthrough." -Belichick

That's pretty damning stuff right there.

Do I have to do citations for my comments?
Permalink | Reply
SSreportersLegend
665 days ago
Score 1+-
Rawb, we don't disagree on much but...


Have you ever heard of the initials "B.S"?
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JuTMSY4Legend
665 days ago
Score 0+-
"I regret that any of this, or to whatever extent it has in any way brought that into question or discussion or debate. The decision was made by the commissioner, the practice was immediately stopped, and we're not doing it.

"Just going back over the whole taping incident, if I contacted the league and asked them about the practice, I'm sure they would have told me - as they have done - that it is not permissible. Then I could have avoided all of this."

I got it Rawb:

Mike Reiss - Boston Globe
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
665 days ago
Score 1+-
HAHA!!!
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
665 days ago
Score 1+-
SSR: Excellent counter argument JuT: What is so damning about that statement?
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
665 days ago
Score 0+-
Template:Sarcasm Detector
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SSreportersLegend
665 days ago
Score 0+-
Template:Sarcastic Detector
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
665 days ago
Score 0+-
{{Sarcasm Detect}
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JuTMSY4Legend
665 days ago
Score 0+-
In my mind; its belichick's mea culpa...he's trying to wash his hands, but they're just too dirty. I really do think Specter is making too much of this, when we could be ripping bush or getting the republicans to do something useful, but since he's here, he's got a point... This stretched deeper than 1 game against the jets, or even the green bay game. it needs to be examined and the commissioner really didn't wanna do that. That makes me sick.
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
665 days ago
Score 1+-
What am I, 0-15 now in the last 2 days?
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
665 days ago
Score 0+-
<> I think someone's comment is them being sarcastic...
?
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
665 days ago
Score 0+-
This stretched deeper than 1 game against the jets, or even the green bay game Green Bay game? WTF? If you are talking about the Super Bowl, Bill Parcells was the head coach of the Patriots then.
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
665 days ago
Score 1+-
<> I think someone's comment is them being sarcastic...


Thanks site scout!
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
665 days ago
Score 0+-
i hope that wasn't sarcastic... http://www.n...ry/7292.html
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
665 days ago
Score 1+-
Oh, that game....dammit you got me. And in that case, I think John Madden wanted some new Favre material during bedtime, so he asked the Patriots cameraman......
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
665 days ago
Score 1+-
I love this. Belichick finally comes out to talk about this stuff now that the season is over. Belichick's explanation for this:

"I wasn't comfortable talking about it earlier in the year because my No. 1 job is to win football games. The more distractions there are, I think the harder it is to prepare. I thought the more conversation about this would just take away from what my primary job and our primary job is, which is to win football games."

So now that Belichick is talking to the media about it, something the haters clamored for all year, he's getting criticized for trying to apologize.

Typical.
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
665 days ago
Score 0+-
Because it's such a pansy ass statement. And Rawb.....don't believe everything you hear.
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
665 days ago
Score 0+-
pansy ass statement? How would you have worded it into a tough guy statement? And don't disbelieve everything you hear, either.
Permalink
Falcon02520Legend
664 days ago
Score 0+-
! Well, SSR, you made a right mess of that.
Permalink
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
664 days ago
Score 1+-
I'm with you here Rawb, BB is gonna get ripped by the haters. Belichick could admit his guilt and give back all 3 rings and they'd say he was being arrogant because he thought he was so good he didn't need the rings. It really doesn't matter what he does at this point. (And I'm not saying that he is guilty, BTW...)
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JuTMSY4Legend
664 days ago
Score -1+-
Meh, at this point i could care less about the rings...while i think its plausible that the pats cheated, its not as if McNabb did blow the last 5 minutes or the Eagles o-line didn't get eaten up...

That being said, I still wouldn't mind seeing that smug asshole getting his chops busted...

Look guys, its not haters...you guys are lovers the rest of us (other 31 NFL team fans) don't like the 'chick or the pats...and you guys don't really help when you call us haters

But I guess what it comes down to is, if you lambast Clemens and Bonds, you gotta go full bore on belichick as well...even if you believe the taping wasn't all that useful...

why? Because there are still disputes about the value of steroids...in fact, check the physicians desk reference
Permalink
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
664 days ago
Score 0+-
I don't think you're a hater, but don't even try to make that case for someone like SSR, who clearly goes out of his way to make any tired, worn out anti-Boston comment he can. Not that I really care, I find the predictability and unoriginality of his comments to be pretty funny. And as for persecuting BB, this is all still hinging on this Walsh guy who claims to have tapes. Get back to me when these tapes are actually released. BB has already paid the price for taping the games, I don't see how Congress can get involved in that.
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
664 days ago
Score -1+-
JuT, you're a hater. You hate the Patriots. That makes you a hater. And here's one difference between Belichick and the steroid boys, when he got caught, Belichick didn't deny doing anything. He owned up to it, but of course you bias haters can't even give him credit for that.
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
664 days ago
Score -1+-
You mean like he didn't deny....

this?


And they've already been caught.
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
664 days ago
Score 0+-
He didn't deny the stuff he actually did. He didn't deny taping signals.
Permalink
OneflydudeAll-American
665 days ago
Score 0+-
Don't trip JuT, I felt just as confused after reading this
Permalink | Reply
Davis21wylieMVP
665 days ago
Score 1+-
Read this.

Look at this.

And call me at the end of the season, when the Phils live down to PECOTA's expectations.

That is all.
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
665 days ago
Score 2+-
hahaha, i knew i could count on you Davis...I'm Neo to your Matrix...

Anyways, Didn't PECOTA also predict the white sox to finish 4th in the AL Central...

in 2005...
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
665 days ago
Score 1+-
they also picked the sox to miss the playoffs... so I guess we can drink that beer together ; - )
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
665 days ago
Score 0+-
meaning the red sox...and missing this years playoffs
Permalink
Davis21wylieMVP
665 days ago
Score 0+-
This year, as in 2008? I don't have the subscription, but judging from their teasers on this page (and by reloading the page a couple of times to cycle through the options), they have the Yankees winning 96, us winning 93, Detroit/Cleveland winning 89, and Oakland winning 78, so they're saying we'll win the Wild Card (same as they said last year). They haven't had us missing the playoffs in a while, I don't think.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
665 days ago
Score 0+-
i heard somewhere (Some blog, which i forget), they had the WC coming out of the central...i could be wrong though...
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
665 days ago
Score 1+-
looks like you got me...

Still...the yankees winning the division? I just don't see how, that staff just doesn't appeal to me...especially at the price tag...

Speaking of which, anyone see the yankees hose chien ming wong in arbitration?
Permalink
Davis21wylieMVP
665 days ago
Score 1+-
Yeah, $4 million, that is a steal for a guy who (shockingly) has more wins than any other pitcher over the past 2 years.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
665 days ago
Score 1+-
well, he wanted 4.6...I don't get why the yankees didn't just pay him...seems like a dumb reason to piss of an ace/A- starter
Permalink
Davis21wylieMVP
665 days ago
Score 0+-
Ha, he's gotta be like, "Oh great, now the Yankees are getting stingy?"
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
665 days ago
Score 0+-
Wow, they picked the White Sox' wins exactly? Big deal.
Permalink | Reply
Davis21wylieMVP
665 days ago
Score 1+-
This coming from someone who picked them to win the Central... I don't want to get into another one of these bullshit arguments again, so I'll just say: We'll see. If the Phillies win the East again, I will admit that both BP and myself (that's right, my annual preview is upcoming and you won't like it) were wrong. But if (when) they don't (and probably finish behind ATL), well, I won't even have to say "I told you so", will I?
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
665 days ago
Score 1+-
Ugh, I hate to do this because I've been wrong a lot but... eh ehm...This coming from someone who picked the rockies to finish last in the west
Permalink
Davis21wylieMVP
665 days ago
Score 0+-
Ah, but did Baseball Prospectus pick them to finish last? That's the question...
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
665 days ago
Score 1+-
"But if (when) they don't (and probably finish behind ATL), well, I won't even have to say "I told you so", will I?"

That takes some balls my friend...

Besides, unlike the rest of the sports seasons, Phillies season, no matter how it ends up, falls right as eagles season gears up...and stats dorks can't ruin football because there's so much more...
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
665 days ago
Score 0+-
Which Reminds me...Aaron Schatz, or whatever the guys name at football prospectus is said that chris chambers is the most overrated receiver in the NFL... point - San Diego Chargers...heh
Permalink
Davis21wylieMVP
665 days ago
Score 1+-
Hey, I am technically the Braves beat writer (I guess?), so if it doesn't happen you can always write it off as loyalty to my AGM beat! :)
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
665 days ago
Score 1+-
Not to digress, but this was a huge point of contention between a buddy of mine and myself...I was adamant that it wasn't stats (chambers apparently misses a bunch of balls) and it was more about his multiple coaching changes, multiple receiver changes, multiple offensive systems and (most importantly) multiple QBs (who all sucked)...
Permalink
Davis21wylieMVP
665 days ago
Score 1+-
Yeah, he was Miami's #1 target overall and their QBs were terrible, so it's no wonder that his catch % was so low. On San Diego he was technically the top wide reciever (maybe even sharing that at times with Vincent Jackson) on a team where the TE Gates was the #1 target and Tomlinson is the best safety valve in the game, so he wasn't getting so many balls forced his way and his catch % was much better.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
665 days ago
Score 0+-
Yes they did, and they also picked the Mariners to finish last in the West.
Permalink | Reply
Davis21wylieMVP
665 days ago
Score 0+-
Last year or this year?
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
665 days ago
Score 0+-
Last year. This year isn't out yet, is it?
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
665 days ago
Score 1+-
2008 just came out, that's kinda the point of my Phillies Diatribe
Permalink
Davis21wylieMVP
665 days ago
Score 1+-
They are douches for not posting the projections somewhere for free, that's for sure. In fact, 95% of their site is subscription now; way to encourage readership, guys. I'll buy the book, but that's it -- and I'm completely their target audience. What about people (like you guys) who don't fit their demographic? But I guess somebody subscribes, or they wouldn't be able to charge for it...
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
665 days ago
Score 1+-
ESPN still has ESPNInsider ; - )
Permalink
Davis21wylieMVP
665 days ago
Score 1+-
I actually get that free with ESPN the Mag, though -- and it's only something like $12 a year for the magazine subscription (or at least it was the last time I renewed). BP, on the other hand, is $40 a year, and that doesn't even include the book. No website subscription is worth even close to that, if you ask me.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
665 days ago
Score 1+-
I generally avoid publications with skip bayless and Steven A Smith... I do read the Philly Inquirer though...sue me...
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
665 days ago
Score 0+-
Bayless, Screamin' Stephen and Facktard should really form their own publication... Retarded Vaginas, Inc.

Hell, the domain name is already bought:

http://retardedvagina.com
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
665 days ago
Score 0+-
Baseball Prospectus picked both the NL and AL Central Divisions exactly, and only had two other correct picks...the Braves finishing third in the NL East, and the Jays third in the AL East. In both West Divisions, they had no teams picked exactly. So 11 of their 13 correct picks came from two divisions.

I had "only" 11 correct picks but only had one division, the NL East, without a correct pick.

I picked the Mariners to finish first in the West, BP had them last. They finished second.

I picked the Rockies to finish second in the NL West (they did), BP picked them last.

I also picked the Red Sox to win it all, only two of the 12 BP staff writers did as well, the consensus WS pick at BP?

The overachieving Diamondbacks.

I'd love to see their overall record since '96. The chances of them outpicking me over the past twelve years?

Zero.
Permalink | Reply
False ProphetAll-Star
664 days ago
Score 1+-
If you can show us a website that has your picks since 96 that has been updated each year, then I'll believe you
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
664 days ago
Score 0+-
Shouldn't it be the other way around?
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False ProphetAll-Star
664 days ago
Score 2+-
if either you or BP shows me their record, I'll believe them. You're the one bragging you're better than they are, not the other way around. If you want to brag about how your better than a highly respected site, you better bring evidence to back it up
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
664 days ago
Score 1+-
and their predictions are objective. They can reproduce them at any time. Your predictions are subjective. You can make them up now can say they're from 96. One I can believe, one I'm probably calling BS on
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
664 days ago
Score 0+-
What's in it for me?
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
664 days ago
Score 2+-
proving that your being truthful and not bluffing
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
664 days ago
Score -1+-
You don't get the reputation I have by not being truthful and/or bluffing. I know this is way over your head, but that's the way it is.

And there aren't more than a handful of people here with a worse reputation than yours, appears to me you should be paying more attention to your own integrity than mine or anyone else's.

YOu want proof? I need a cashier's check for $500.
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
664 days ago
Score 1+-
KD, no one in their right mind believes anyone when they say they their subjective picks have been right more often than a reputable premium website's objective picks for the past 12 years, especially when there is no way you could ever prove it.
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KelsdadAll-Star
664 days ago
Score 0+-
The difference between them and you and me? They sit around and make picks and get paid for it, we do it for fun.

I would take your opinion on something football related at face value because I respect your opinion (even though we don't always agree) and understand you know what you are talking about.

These fantasy geeks at face value are clueless, they have very little understanding of the game and rely on complex mathematical computer programs to do the work for them.

I enjoy reading their opinions and their magazine, but the truth is when they are correct it is more luck than skill, because the computer only spits out what is told to it, and that is subjective. (The game is called "fantasy" afterall, isn't it?)

And for the record, I could prove it. I have no intention of doing so because there is no personal benefit, financial or otherwise.
Permalink
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
664 days ago
Score 0+-
Never thought I'd fight for KD, but just because these guys get called "experts" doesn't mean they know anymore than the serious baseball fan. They're a premium website, not because they are better at predicting the future, but because they market well and get paid for making those predictions. They don't hold any more weight than KD's or any other knowledgeable fan's.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
664 days ago
Score 0+-
You have officially hurt my feelings, Bobbyjim.
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
664 days ago
Score 3+-
I'm generally prone to believe you because although I have no basis for this opinion (if I needed one, I'd say it's because baseball's been around for a significantly longer time than other sports), but baseball seems to be a sport that lends itself to more accurate analysis from people who have even casually observed baseball over a longer period of time. My problem wasn't necessarily you saying you're more accurate than them (because here's the thing about subjective opinions, you could can take their predictions as a basis, then change the abnormalities, they have to take their results on face). In 1996, neither of you were publishing online. If you want to brag, pick something a bit more reasonable.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
664 days ago
Score 0+-
They've been publishing their book since 1996, so I would assume their predictions were included? Being on-line is a non-issue, they could have written them all on a cocktail napkin like I did. (Last year was the first time I saw or even bought their book, so I honestly don't know).
Permalink
TylersaltAll-Star
665 days ago
Score 2+-
I have to say, the NL is going to be hella-exciting this year. The NL East could go three ways, the Central could go three ways, and the West could easily go four different ways. I picked a great year to get into an NL-only fantasy team.
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
665 days ago
Score 0+-
Well, BP would tell you not to watch because they can tell you exactly what will happen...and save you the time, effort, jerseys...

and joy...

Wait...you say its a prediction?
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
664 days ago
Score 2+-
"Most attractive User"??? Only from behind, right?
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
664 days ago
Score 1+-
well...you're the second person to notice that... but based on the poll i took, I was voted...so who's to argue...
Permalink
Falcon02520Legend
664 days ago
Score 0+-
well, I noticed it too, but because I knew it must be false information, I chose to ignore it ;)
Permalink
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
664 days ago
Score 3+-
If you're the blonde with the rack in your avatar, then I concur.
Permalink
Yakob878MVP
664 days ago
Score 0+-
the prospectus also said Brady Quinn would prove his doubters wrong and we all know how that turned out
Permalink | Reply
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Categories: Detects Sarcasm | Opinions | Opinions by User JuTMSY4 | February 18, 2008 | February 2008 | MLB Opinions | NFL Opinions | Philadelphia Phillies Opinions | Philadelphia Eagles Opinions

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2009 Week 3: Let’s Talk About Your Favorite NFL Team

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Packers 27, Ravens 14. It wasn't pretty: 310 total penalty yards and 7 total turnovers, but the Packers stay alive in the NFC Wild Card race.

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2 Eh...Polamalu was on the cover of Madden, so the supp...
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1 I think Spiller"s going to be the best NFL back in this gr...
0 Pervis Ellison averaged over 20 ppg one season and ha...
0 Ali was leading Frazier on all judges cards when the ...

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Which of colelge football teams did George Steinbrenner not serve as an assitant coach for?

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