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LouGehrig
I have been a Yankees fan for many years. Thanks to what has occurred during the last few years, I am beginning to wonder.

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Pete Ties Ty

by LouGehrig
created May 25, 2009, last edited May 26, 2009
9
Vote

by Harold Friend

Pete Rose was not supposed to be in the lineup against the Cubs on September 8, 1985, but scheduled starting pitcher Steve Trout had a bicycle accident the evening before the game. Trout injured his pitching shoulder and was scratched. Pete Rose preferred to have Tony Perez play first base against left handers, but when right hander Reggie Patterson was announced as the Cubs' starter, Reds' playing manager Rose put himself into the starting lineup.

Reggie Red Patterson and Mitchell Blue Was Lucky to Be Alive

Reggie Patterson was fortunate to be alive, much less starting for the Cubs. In November, Patterson was a hold up victim in Caracas, Venezuela. He was shot in the right side of his back, survived, and as recently as June, needed surgery to relieve a nerve blockage behind his right shoulder. Now he was going to face Pete Rose, who was closing in on Ty Cobb's career hit record.

Pete Rose and Alex Mohammed Ties Ty

In the top of the first, Pete Rose hit the first pitch he saw for a line drive single to left for career hit 4,190*. Next time up, Pete grounded out to second baseman Ryne Sandberg. In the fifth, the wind picked up as the sky darkened. Pete got into his low crouch as the fans cheered wildly. Patterson's first two deliveries were not to Pete's liking and both were called strikes. The next two pitches were in the dirt to even the count at 2-2.

The fans, who wanted to be part of history, booed Patterson, who peered into catcher Jody Davis, got the signal, nodded assent, and threw ball three. Rose hit Patterson's next pitch, a screwball from a right hander, into right field to tie the record.

Pete Rose Grounds Out

Bob Dernier made the third out in the Cubs' half of the sixth inning. Pete Rose would lead off the top of the seventh. The fans shouted, "Pete, Pete," anticipating the record-breaking hit. The fans were standing, as were the players on the Cubs' bench. Relief pitcher Lary Sorensen's first two deliveries missed as the fans again booed. The third pitch was a called strike and then Pete fouled one off to even the count at 2-2. He then grounded out sharply to shortstop Shawn Dunston.

Game Delayed

The rain started, delaying the game for two hours and three minutes. With the game tied 5-5 in the ninth inning, Pete batted with runners on first and second, no outs, ace relief pitcher Lee Smith on the mound, and the sky darkened. Many managers would go by the book and have the batter sacrifice to move the runners up. A fly ball would put the Reds ahead.

Manager Rose Has Batter Rose Swing

But with runners on second and third and one out, Cubs' manager Jim Frey would probably walk Dave Parker to take his chances with Nick Esasky. Pete Rose was the manager, and he eschewed the bunt. Rose, Parker, and Esasky all struck out. The Cubs were retired in order in the bottom of the ninth, and the game was suspended. Pete would have to wait another day.

Play Every Game to Win

Pete Rose played to win. He never stopped hustling, and he never compromised the chances of his team winning. Many in the media thought that Rose should break Ty Cobb's record in Cincinnati, where Pete played and where he was born. Pete said that he would prefer to break the record in Cincinnati, but that he would be swinging for a hit every time up. "It's my business. And we're in a pennant race. Every hit's important for the team."

Pete Rose may have bet on baseball games, but to think that Pete Rose put anything above winning baseball games is to be wrong.

One Word Explains It Fully

Pete Rose and a friend were riding in a car one late night. He asked Pete what drives him. The one word answer fully explains Pete Rose, an answer only those who cannot accept defeat and would do anything to avoid it can fully comprehend. "Pride."

References:

  • (NOTE: According to its Web site, MLB.com, Major League Baseball continues to recognize Cobb's final hit total as 4,191, though independent research has revealed that two of Cobb's hits were counted twice.)

By IRA BERKOW Special to The New York Times. (1985, September 9). Rose Hits Nos. 4,190 and 4,191, Tying Cobb's 57-Year-Old Record :Rose Equals Cobb's Base-Hit Record. New York Times (1857-Current file),A1. Retrieved May 25, 2009, from ProQuest Historical Newspapers The New York Times (1851 - 2005) database. (Document ID: 229051682).

IRA BERKOW. (1985, September 1). The Meaning of Rose. New York Times (1857-Current file),p. S4. Retrieved May 25, 2009, from ProQuest Historical Newspapers The New York Times (1851 - 2005) database. (Document ID: 114654797).


Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
Anonymous Fanatic #1
169 days ago
Score 0+-
"He never stopped hustling, and he never compromised the chances of his team winning." Well, considering he bet on his team to lose, I would say that statement is not accurate.
Permalink | Reply
LouGehrigRed-Shirting
169 days ago
Score 1+-
Pete Rose NEVER bet AGAINST his team. Good thing the above accusation is an anonymous post.
Permalink | Reply
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
169 days ago
Score 0+-
Perhaps the ghost of Angelo Bartlett "Bart" Giamatti?
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
169 days ago
Score 3+-
"Good thing the above accusation is an anonymous post."

The "above post" is no longer anonymous, and yes, he did.

The evidence on him betting for and against his team is so ovewhelming, yet, twenty years later, people are still in denial over Rose.

I don't get it.
Permalink | Reply
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
169 days ago
Score 3+-
To me, you bet=you're out. A precedent established long ago, whether or not you bet for or against your team.
Permalink
CheezerAll-Star
168 days ago
Score 1+-
KD, please cite the evidence. My cursory internet search only shows that Rose bet for the Reds, never against the Reds.

I'm not in denial, I agree with Rawb. If you gamble at all, you should be punished.
Permalink
Steel TownDraft Pick
168 days ago
Score 1+-
Can you supply a link with the evidence of Rose betting against his team. Either way it doesn't really matter 'cause like Rawb says "you bet, you're out".
Permalink
LouGehrigRed-Shirting
168 days ago
Score 0+-
Please document that he bet AGAINST his team.
Permalink
Sj-hypocycloidAll-American
168 days ago
Score 0+-
I will agree with the 'bet=you're out' axiom only to the degree that this is a clearly stated and widely known and accepted rule of baseball. That said, I still am in the Rose=HOF camp. I don't have a problem with waiting until Rose has passed on, as has been suggested on this site, but eventually, he should be in the Hall. No matter what kind of scumbag he may have been, Rose is MLB's all-time hits leader. Whether or not he gambled doesn't change that.


I am also puzzled as to why an article about Rose's historic hit also talked about his less historic gambling addiction. Just once, I'd like to see a Rose article that just focuses on Rose the player or Rose the player's achievements on the baseball diamond. All the rest of the discussion is counterproductive. And I don't say this with my head in the sand - I know what's what. I just would enjoy reading articles about sports, untainted by real world crap. What happens outside the lines doesn't necessarily have to creep into what happens inside. Fine, I'm naive - I admit it. But I won't let Rose's ethically-challenged decision (and the deluge of articles and opinion about the aftermath) taint what was (and is) a great baseball memory I have carried with me since I was a kid.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
168 days ago
Score 3+-
The Dowd Report and the depositions of his co-conspirators, Cheeze, it's all in there.
Permalink | Reply
CheezerAll-Star
168 days ago
Score 0+-
Thanks KD. I'll read the Dowd report today.
Permalink
Steel TownDraft Pick
168 days ago
Score 0+-
Ignore my post above.
Permalink
CheezerAll-Star
168 days ago
Score 0+-
I skim read most of the document. I paid special attention to part 3, which is the gambling notebook records from 1987. It shows Rose gambling a lot ( the guy definitely had a problem). However, every bet on the Reds games I could find showed that Rose bet for the Reds, not against them.

I have to get to work. I'll read more later if I can find the time.
Permalink
LouGehrigRed-Shirting
168 days ago
Score 0+-
Be specific.
Permalink
Anonymous Fanatic #1
168 days ago
Score 0+-
In an interview given to the NY Post in December, 2002, Dowd stated,

"There is significant evidence Rose bet against the Reds, I chose not to provide specifics in the report due to time constraints."

Just like with the Mitchell Report, MLB only wanted names and evidence of his gambling. They didn't care who he bet on, only that he had bet.

So if Nolan Ryan is pitching against the Reds and they have some rookie pitching, Rose is going to bet the Reds to win even though they have no chance of winning? No one has ever placed a bet with the intention of losing, if the only chance Rose had to make money was to bet the Reds losing, then he did.
Permalink | Reply
CheezerAll-Star
168 days ago
Score 0+-
Which he later changed.

In December 2002, Dowd told the New York Post that he had reliable evidence that Rose bet against his team but didn't include it in his 225-page report because of time constraints. He later backed off of those statements. "I was never able to tie it down," Dowd said. "It was unreliable, and that's why I didn't include it in the report. I probably shouldn't have said it. I was not trying to start something here."

I only include what information I have in writing (or internet, a reasonable facsimile). The Dowd report shows case after case of Rose betting on the Reds game. I doesn't say who he bet for. However, every time the Reds won, he won. If the Reds lost, he lost.

This is all a moot point anyway. It's irrefutable that he gambled on MLB and deserves to be punished.
Permalink
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Categories: Opinions | Opinions by User LouGehrig | May 25, 2009 | May 2009 | MLB Opinions | Pete Rose Opinions | Ty Cobb Opinions | Cincinnati Reds Opinions | Chicago Cubs Opinions | Career hit record Opinions

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