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Manny Stiles
Sports is my crack. ArmchairGM is my pipe.

-mannystiles@aol.com

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Manny Stiles and Fudging with Numbers Ventures present the NASFL

by Manny Stiles
created May 16, 2008, last edited February 10, 2009
31
Vote

Manny Stiles and “Fudging With Numbers” present:


THE NASFL

The North American* Sports Fan League

Combining the four major sports and census numbers to clearly define which cities have the richest sports heritage, best fanbases and deepest rivalries.

North American Sports Fans League

The official NASFL logo! Sorry, sports fans from other continents... But feel free to start your own fan league!
The official NASFL logo! Sorry, sports fans from other continents... But feel free to start your own fan league!

Are you sick and tired of fans from other cities bashing your town? Are you tired of informing fans from other cities that they are comparing apples and triangles? Do you need a method of fairly comparing the fanbase of one area with another?

Which towns have the best fans? Which towns have the best sports media? Which towns have the smartest fans?

Dr. Commento has devised a method - originally a book concept - to separate and analyze the 32 major sports metropolitan areas.

Introducing the 4 Tiers of Sports Fan Metro Areas. Simply put, Tier 1 has all four major sports represented and is a major media market. Tier 2 has three sports represented, Tier 3 has two major teams and Tier 4 is one sport towns. All data is derived from 2005 census numbers. Included are the top 100 cities (proper) in population and the top 60 metro areas in media market size. In order to even things out, I took some liberties and jammed things where I thought they should go (with logic and reasoning provided).


Tier 1 – 4 Pro Sports Represented

top 60 population, top 30 media market

  • Exception for LA and Toronto, for population, history and fan interest.



Tier 1+ – Division "Captains"

NY - New York City (#1 population/#1 media market) – Newark (#64 population), Jersey City (#73), Yonkers (#99)


The Big Apple. America’s biggest and richest city. Media market capital. Passionate sports fans tremendous sports culture and history. More championships and teams than any other market. Includes teams in New Jersey.


Yankees, Mets, Knicks, Nets, Giants, Jets, Rangers, Devils, Islanders


LA - Los Angeles (2/2) – Long Beach (32), Santa Ana (51), Anaheim (52), Riverside (61)


2nd largest city in America. Home to Hollywood, the Rose Bowl and many Super Bowls. Although there is no longer a NFL team in LA, the city gets credit as a 4 sport town due to formerly hosting TWO historic NFL franchises.


Angels, Dodgers, Lakers, Clippers, Ducks, Kings


Tier 1

CHI - Chicago (3/3) – Ft Wayne (80)


“The Windy City” (even though Dallas has a higher average wind speed) is a hub for the middle of America. Not just for industry, organized crime and food, but sports as well. With it’s crazy weather and crazy, sometimes destructive fans, Chicago has a rich intertwining throughout the tapestry of sports history.


Bears, Cubs, White Sox, Blackhawks, Bulls


PHI - Philadelphia (5/4)


A town that wants you to bleed trying, a town that knows heartache like few others and a town that loves the blue collar players more than it’s stars Philadelphia isn’t just a place for cheese steak, scrapple and Tastykake aficionados. It’s a safe haven for the deeply knowledgeable yet well-worn diehard fan.


Phillies, 76ers, Eagles, Flyers



PHX - Phoenix (6/14) – Mesa (40), Glendale (76), Scottsdale (83), Chandler (87)


The Valley of the Sun is Mecca for free agents with golf addictions. 330+ days of sun a year draws the biggest sports names – in the off season. The local teams rarely draw the same accolades as the local accommodations.

Diamondbacks, Suns, Coyotes, Cardinals



DFW - Dallas (9/5) – Fort Worth (20), Arlington (49)


Everything is bigger in Texas. And the Metroplex is huge. While the ‘Boys remain the biggest thing in the Metroplex, Mark Cuban reminds you he’s still a mover and shaker. And here’s a question: Are the Rangers cursed?


Cowboys, Rangers, Mavericks, Stars



DET - Detroit (10/9)


Detroit has taken a lot of PR hits lately. From the auto manufacturing industry taking it in the driveshaft to the Mayor taking it… well – the last grasp at happiness is the sports teams. Only the Lions could possibly use more hope than the economy in Michigan.


Red Wings, Tigers, Lions, Pistons



SFO - San Francisco (14/12), San Jose (11/28), Oakland (43)


SFO encompasses a large area around the bay including all the way down to San Jose and Fremont. A cultural center for all things hip and hippie, SFO also has a rich educational influence and a year-round weather system that while can be mildly unpleasant is never wintry and harsh. Although earthquakes make up for the lack of blizzards.


Giants, A's, 49ers, Raiders, Warriors, Sharks



BOS - Boston (23/10)


After decades of distraught, Bah-stahn can enjoy the rare feat of having three of it’s teams in title contention at the same time. However, good times never last long. Currently at the apex of bandwagonry, you can’t visit a major town in the United States without bumping into a Beantown Sports-clad fan.


Red Sox, New England Patriots, Celtics, Boston Bruins



WAS - Washington D.C. (25/7)


The District is the nation’s capital, historical center and the southern tip of the Northeast Corridor. Many educational facilities intertwine the City. A rich tapestry of recreation and leisure is needed to escape the pest and parasite infested swamp of government; I mean, the Potomac River. There aren’t a lot of diversions, but the local sports teams offer a rebuttal to the complications of politics.


Redskins, Nationals, Wizards, Capitals



DEN - Denver (26/22) – Colorado Springs (48), Aurora (59)


The Mile High City is a football town first, but learning how to enjoy the other sports too! On the Eastern side of the Rocky mountains, Denver enjoys what is probably the broadest fan base in terms of mileage. Fans from as far as Idaho, Utah, Wyoming, Montana, South Dakota, New Mexico and Nebraska all call Denver their “Home team”


Broncos, Rockies, Nuggets, Avalanche



ATL - Atlanta (41/11)

The South’s cultural and historical center is all about Southern Hospitality - often extending their hospitality to teams that visit as well. The local sports scene has been barren save for the ’95 World Series, at a time when general interest in baseball was near it’s lowest due to the prior year’s strike. Fitting. Passivity for the home teams does not help, but winning cures all – winning BIG, that is!


Braves, Hawks, Thrashers, Falcons



MIA - Miami (46/6) – Hialeah (78)


You have to wonder how a vacation and party hot spot can sustain four major sports teams, but Miami does it – barely. While the Dolphins have the longest tradition, they are currently the weakest of the four teams having not reached a championship game since years before there were ANY other major sports teams in southern Florida.


Heat, Panthers, Marlins, Dolphins



MIN - Minneapolis (47/16) – St Paul (62)


When it’s as cold as it gets in the Twin Cities, sports is the refuge. Nothing gets as big as the Vikings in Minnesota, but it might have as much to do with the Scandanavian heritage of the residents more than anything. The Twins are the only team in Minny to win a title.


Vikings, Twins, Wild, Timberwolves



TBO – Tampa (55/21), Orlando (94/30) – St Petersburg (70)


Though Orlando is nearly a two-hour drive from Tampa, it gets combined Tampa and St. Pete due to it’s kinship and market sharing, plus the fact that I wanted 16 cities in Tier 1.

Tampa Bay was LONG the dregs of pro sports with the historically horrific losing ways of the Buccaneers. That all turned around in 2002 with the Bucs winning the Super Bowl. The Lightning followed that championship two years later with the Stanley Cup. Might the Rays or Magic be far behind?


Buccaneers, Rays, Lightning, Magic



TOR - Toronto (*)

Toronto is one of the most important cities in North America. The most populated city in Canada is less populated and has a market size just slightly smaller than Chicago’s. A multicultural supercenter and a true melting pot of diversity, 49% of people who reside in Toronto were not born in Canada. Added to the list despite housing an NFL team, Toronto’s football history cannot be ignored and the city is also hosting a Buffalo Bills game this fall.


Blue Jays, Raptors, Maple Leafs, Argonauts







Tier 2

60/50, 3 sports represented

HOU – Houston (4/8) Astros, Texans, Rockets


TEN – Memphis (17/41), Nashville (27/39) Titans, Grizzlies, Predators


MIL – Milwaukee (19/36), includes Green Bay (*/*) Packers, Bucks, Brewers


CHA – Charlotte (21/37), Raleigh (57), Greensboro (77), Durham (96) Bobcats, Panthers, Hurricanes


SEA – Seattle (24/15) Seahawks, Mariners, Sonics


CLE – Cleveland (35/23) Browns, Indians, Cavaliers


STL – St. Louis (53/18) Cardinals, Rams, Blues


PIT – Pittsburgh (54/20) Steelers, Pirates, Penguins


Tier 3

60/50, 2 sports represented

SDO – San Diego (7/17) Chargers, Padres


IND – Indianapolis (12/34) Colts, Pacers


BAL – Baltimore (18/19) Ravens, Orioles


NAW – New Orleans (34/38) Hornets, Saints


KAN – Kansas City (38/26) Chiefs, Royals


CIN – Cincinnati (56/24) Bengals, Reds


BUF – Buffalo (60/42) Bills, Sabres


Tier 4

60 AND/OR 50, 1 sport represented

SAN – San Antonio (8/29) Spurs


JAX – Jacksonville (13/45) Jaguars


COL – Columbus (15/31) Blue Jackets


POR – Portland (28/25) Trailblazers


SAC – Sacramento (37/27) Kings


SLC – Salt Lake City (*/50) Jazz


Other Cities

Top 50 US cities in population, no sports teams:

Austin (16), El Paso (22), Oklahoma City (29) Las Vegas (30), Tucson (31), Albuquerque (33), Fresno (36), Vero Beach (39), Omaha (42), Tulsa (44), Honolulu (45), Wichita (49).



NASFL "Rivalry" Divisions

(including last year of championship)

NorthEast

NY * – 2008
BOS* - 2007
BAL - 2000
WAS* - 1991
PHI* - 1983

Rustbelt

PIT - 2006
DET* – 2004
TOR* - 1993
CLE - 1954
BUF - ?

Midwest

IND - 2006
CHI* – 2005
MIL – 1997
MIN* - 1991
CIN - 1990

SouthEast

MIA* - 2006
CHA - 2006
TBO* - 2005
ATL* - 1995
NAW - ?
TEN - ?

Central

SAN – 2007
STL – 2001
DAL* – 2000
DEN* - 1999
HOU – 1995
KAN - 1985

West

LA * - 2006
PHX* - 2001
SFO* – 1994
SEA - 1978
SDO - ?

(Asterisk indicates Tier 1 Cities)

Minors

JAX - ?
POR - 1979
COL - ?
SAC - ?
OKC - ?
SLC - ?

  • note - San Antonio is included in the NASFL and not the minors due to population and market size, multiple championships and also due to the factor that it has hosted NFL games as well. Plus I needed one more city to make it a nice round 32! Sorry, Portland.


So there you have it...

More analysis and breakdown coming soon - this is just beginning. This is just the framework for the NASFL.


While many articles and stories have been written comparing American cities' sports teams, the NASFL will delve MUCH further. We will break down each division and examine the roots of the rivalries. Later posts will include local college sports, other sports such as soccer, WNBA, racing, etc. as well as "fringe" sports, athletic histories, forgotten leagues and franchises and of course, local reports.


If you live in these areas and would like to contribute, message me!


If you want to compare cities in the tiers on particular topics, be fair and feel free!


Basically this allows any AGMer to compare rivalries and fanbases in a more accurate and fair manner. Create the category or topic and let the inter-divisional smack talk fly!



Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
False ProphetAll-Star
545 days ago
Score 11+-
Manny, you made a HUGE mistakes. The Timberwolves and the Knicks are Not pro sports franchises
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
545 days ago
Score 2+-
bah dum bum...
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
545 days ago
Score 1+-
So are these just the groupings or are they in order?
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
545 days ago
Score 2+-
because it looks like order of population to me (and I bet you already said that...)
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
545 days ago
Score 0+-
These are just the groupings by tier and then in order in each tier by the city proper's population.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
545 days ago
Score 0+-
Again, these are by 2005 census numbers, not today's figures.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
545 days ago
Score 5+-
OK, Manny. I will start up a Middle Eastern sports fan league soon. ;)
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
545 days ago
Score 2+-
Go MESFL!!!
Permalink
SbianchiSoccer Kid
545 days ago
Score 3+-
I really liked your article. But one thing that should be pointed out "Good times" always last in Boston. (It helps when teams are winning but even when there not its still Boston and nothing beat a TRUE BOSTON SPORTS FAN!!)
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
545 days ago
Score 3+-
Call me in 85 years.

Sorry, but when people just "want to see their team win before they die"... THAT is not what a normal person would call "good times".

Ask Bill Buckner how long the "good times" last...
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
545 days ago
Score 2+-
Good times...

The patriots have a terrible history

The Red sox had a 86 year world series drought

The Bruins are about average

and the Celtics...well if you watched basketball in the last 15 years then i've got one name for you...rick patino
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
545 days ago
Score 0+-
And the Northeast Division is off to the early lead!!!
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
545 days ago
Score 0+-
With FOUR Tier 1 teams, we all knew it was a tough division. Don't sleep on Baltimore, though.
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score -1+-
A Philly fan ragging on Boston for lacking a succesful history? Don't the Phillies have 10,000+ losses AND a 97 year championship drought?
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 0+-
I don't think he was "ragging" I think he was clarifying... commisserating, if you will!


Nice rubber-glue rebuttal, though Rawb!
Permalink
SbianchiSoccer Kid
545 days ago
Score 0+-
Like I said Boston Sports Fans TRUE BOSTON SPORTS FANS love their teams no matter what happens. So when they are winning its good. And when its bad thats when the True Fans really show their Stuff. Its all GOOD. So GOOD TIMES do last in BOSTON!!!
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
545 days ago
Score -1+-
What's the difference between a true fan and a false one? The true fans lie to themselves when things suck?

I think it's a fairly easy general perception that the whiniest people in America live in Massachusetts. They also think they're the smartest, most self-centered and self-absorbed, most endlessly important, deserving and wicked awesome people in America. I don't know how it started, but it's been handed down for generations and doesn't seem to be changing in a globalized environment we live in today.



Do you root for your team when they're down 40 with 2 minutes to go? Is THAT what makes you a TRUE fan? Well, good for you.

This exercise is not about YOU. It's about the metropolitan areas as a whole. In general, not in specifics. I'm sure the world's greatest fan lives in a place like Minot, North Dakota. It's not about THAT ONE PERFECT FAN. It's about fanbases.


I'm not here to sift out the varying layers of fandom; that's my next project after this one...


What I don't understand (well, actually I kinda do) is why I only have these same arguments with Boston fans - WHO ALL seem to be the only "true" fans in the world...
Permalink
CrackajgDraft Pick
545 days ago
Score 3+-
I don't think it's because we think we're the only "true" fans in the world, I think we've been getting a lot of shit lately about being bandwagon fans and while they may be true for some, there are still Boston fans who have not been bandwagon jumpers but instead have had an undying allegiance to their local teams from the moment we had the ability to understand how they could affect us emotionally. So don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there aren't bandwagon jumpers in New England, but there are still some of us who follow the team even when their shitty. I watched I dunno, off hand like 35 Celtics games last year and they were one of the worst teams in the league.
Permalink
CrackajgDraft Pick
545 days ago
Score 3+-
And yes, I'm aware most of that was a run on sentence...
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
545 days ago
Score 1+-
And guess what... EVRY CITY has fans like that. Or else there would be no one in the stands of shitty teams.


Unfortunately - as I was pointing out - Bostonians seem to think they're the only people capable of rooting for their favorite team.


Again - I'm not here to prove which individual is a real fan and which one isn't. This is about FANBASES. The good, the bandwagon, the peripheral, the Homers, the diehard, the moronic, the passive, the drunken, the team logo-tattooed, the wannabes, the undecided, etc.


We will take a TON of factors into this and examine things from a perspective only Manny Stiles can offer! This isn't about which city is the best, it's about the many layers and spectrum of experiences the fanbases endure and celebrate.


If you're on AGM, you're likely a pretty good fan - we're ALL fans of sport - so don't take offense. Just for a second realize that only 20 comments in, NO OTHER representatives of any other city is poo-pooing their "true"ness...
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
545 days ago
Score 2+-
the drunken? Phillies fans on Dollar Dog Night?!
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
545 days ago
Score 3+-
"Fill in the Blank" Bar at "fill in the blank" city watching "fill in the blank" game on "fill in the blank" night.


Could also go for the freeks like me that go to a bar in Scottsdale, AZ to watch the Tampa Bay Rays to everyone's befuddlement. (It helps that I'm almost always by far the biggest dude where ever I go)

I also forgot - wellwishers, passers by, vacationers, friends and relatives of players, transplants, people who auctioned off their fanship on ebay, etc.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
545 days ago
Score 2+-
yeah sure
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
545 days ago
Score 2+-
Wow. Tim Lake and Renee Chinault look exactly the same as the day I moved from PA!
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
545 days ago
Score 2+-
yeah, she hasn't changed for the better part of 10 years
Permalink
SbianchiSoccer Kid
544 days ago
Score 2+-
Fair enough, I do admit I strayed a bit from the overall topic of the article. My fault -- great article though Manny, per usual.
Permalink
CrackajgDraft Pick
544 days ago
Score 2+-
Oops, that was me. Sbianchi is the Mrs. -- please go easy on her. I told her she needs to start agreeing to disagree around here, though.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 0+-
I take it easy on NO ONE! Also I don't "disagree"... I vehemently argue!!! Ask MY wife!!! =)

Nice to know when I'm getting ganged up on though!


Don't fret, the NASFL will expose a lot of assumptions as false and shed light on things we never knew or even expected!!!

The fun begins Monday!
Permalink
CheezerAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 3+-
So that makes three wives on the site.
Permalink
LASportsblogAAA-er
545 days ago
Score 2+-
I thought I was upset to see LA mixed and mingled with Orange County (although it's totally proper for this exercise) I know I wasn't nearly as upset as Fransiscians were about having to be grouped with Oakland and it's east bay areas (Newark, Pittsburg, Fremont, Hayward)
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
545 days ago
Score 2+-
Without Orange and Riverside counties, LA falls out of Tier 1+. Much like without New Jersey and Long Island, NYC is not a super tiered city, either.

Be proud of your metropolis, not just the city! You're all in this together!!!

Frisco isn't a Tier 1 team without the Warriors or Sharks, either... there's lots of examples. But I twisted and turned it until I had 32 metro areas geographically as balanced as possible.


I love geography and I love to travel. I've already been to 18 of the 32 cities!!! (and lived in 2 of them)
Permalink
LASportsblogAAA-er
545 days ago
Score 2+-
Oh ya man I completely understand why the inclusions are made. Just my LA bias assuming that SF Fans are so pretentious (a good word for Boston fans too) and snobby that they would be insulted to even be mentioned with the likes of Oakland, Fremont or Newark.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
545 days ago
Score 2+-
Oh, I understand that.

I'm sure Tampa folks don't like the Orlando inclusion, Dallas locals spit upon Arlington, Denver and Colo. Springs aren't exactly chummy and I basically slapped the Tennessee and North Carolina cities together for fack's sake.

But people need to realize what a media market is. You share the same news and sports coverage, you share the ups and downs of NASFL!
Permalink
LASportsblogAAA-er
545 days ago
Score 3+-
For facks sake can we include Rhode Island with Boston?
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
545 days ago
Score 0+-
Wouldn't the backwoods of New Hampshire be more considerate?

There's not enough people in Providence to register in the top 100 U.S. cities, but it is part of the same media market, so in a roundabout way, it is included with Boston!


Want me to include Montreal and Ottawa with Toronto while I'm at it?
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
545 days ago
Score 1+-
LASB, keep it up and LA is getting Bakersfield TOO!!! =)
Permalink
Taytay 24All-American
544 days ago
Score 2+-
Some people in Dallas are a bit miffed about Arlington, but not me. The City of Dallas had their chance at the Cowboys--Jerry went there first. They wouldn't put up the money so the 'Boys went elsewhere, and Arlington was more than happy to oblige. Good for them.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 2+-
Arlington is the meat in the Dallas - Ft Worth sandwich. been there several times... and thought "Wow, I could never live here EACH time!"


The Rangers' ballpark is very under-rated, though.
Permalink
Taytay 24All-American
544 days ago
Score 2+-
Yeah, the Ballpark never got the attention it deserved. Everyone ohhed and ahhed over the Jake and Camden Yards (deservingly so) and the Ballpark kind of got overlooked. Next time you are back, be sure to go to the TexMex stall--I think the only one in the park is on the first level in right field. Great nachos.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 2+-
The Downside to the Ballpark is it's immediate surroundings... or lack thereof - the other "retro" parks are all in historic downtowns with nightlife and points of interest, the Ballpark is next to Six Flags and a GM assembly plant... and yeah... in Arlington.
Permalink
Taytay 24All-American
544 days ago
Score 2+-
Yeah, it isn't pretty. But you can park at Six Flags back lot and be closer than any of the general ballpark parking to the gate. Silver lining.
Hopefully JerryWorld moving in next door will revitalize the area. The AAC completely turned around its area of Dallas, and I thought that was impossible. There is hope in Arlington yet.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
542 days ago
Score 1+-
its true...CBP and Camden are both located in ideal spots (Camden being absolutely awesome!) while the Jake (Progressive?!) I assume is in a good spot (never been there) But the ballpark is gorgeous and while it may be in a bad location (meaning middle of no where), it can at least push the family atmosphere
Permalink
EroosterMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 2+-
Tier 3
:


Calgary - Flames, Stampeders
Edmonton - Oilers, Eskimos
Montreal - Canadians, Alouettes
Vancouver - Canucks, Lions
Tier 4
Hamilton - Tiger-Cats

Saskatchewan - Roughriders
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 2+-
What about Mexico City and Guadalajara while you're at it?

Nice try... (You forgot Ottawa)

Calgary has a metro area almost the size of Montgomery, Alabama.

Edmonton has a metro area smaller than Rochester, NY.

Vancouver is slightly larger than Portland, Or. and would have made the list if they still had a basketball franchise (although I did consider lumping the Canucks in with Seattle).

Hamilton is smaller than Baton Rouge, LA although I suppose it could go in with Toronto for argument's sake.

and the entire province of Saskatchewan has 100,000 people less than the Louisville, KY metro area...


Only Montreal can make an argument for inclusion since it's a little bigger than the Seattle-Tacoma metro area. And guess what - No - I mean... Non! Zut Alors...

No doubt, I am biased to basketball and against the CFL... (Go Roughriders!)
Permalink
EroosterMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 2+-
Ottawa currently does not have a CFL team. The Renegades are still on the drawing board of the CFL Commissioner. And as you know, I am partial to the CFL. Go Stamps!
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Ottawa would be a "Tier 4" city with the Senators under your "Include All of Canada plan"...
Permalink
Falcon02520Legend
544 days ago
Score 3+-
I am not going to lie... I am confused as hell

I would like to say one thing though...

[edit] PHILADELPHIA KICKS ASS

There is no other place I'd rather be when it comes to sports. Passion isn't just a word in Philly, it is a way of life...
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 2+-
I am so tempted to click on [edit] and make that say something disgusting, but not this time...


Anyway, what's there to be confused about? I separated the 32 largest and therefore most important media markets with Pro Sports franchises in the United States so we can compare and judge them openly and fairly.


It's basically a way to heighten the rivalries between cities instead of hearing ESPN's "titletown" and "Best franchise" annual babblethon all summer...


All YOU have to do is have your opinion!
Permalink
Falcon02520Legend
544 days ago
Score 2+-
It makes a little more sense now. Mentally I am not with it at the moment because something in my life just got turned upside-down. Anyway, I'll go over it again when my head is on straight (err, straighter) And of course I am willing to add my input... like every other time...
Plus, JuT needs some help standing up for Philly ;)
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 3+-
"something in my life just got turned upside-down" - Jeez, I hope it wasn't your girlfriend's birth control dial dispenser...
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 2+-
"something in my life just got turned upside-down" - Jeez, I hope it wasn't your girlfriend's birth control dial dispenser!
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 2+-
Too ephing weird... I thought the firs time went through in invisible font! I guess it was funnier the first time...
Permalink
Falcon02520Legend
544 days ago
Score 4+-
If only, Manny... if only...
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 2+-
If only you had a girlfriend? (couldn't resist)


Sorry if it's a serious matter, but I have to swing when it's on the tee...
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 3+-
That ball is high, that ball is far, that ball is GONE!!
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 2+-
The Rob Deer of AGM comedy strikes again!!!
Permalink
Falcon02520Legend
544 days ago
Score 3+-
You couldn't resist... being dead-on correct?

It is a serious matter to me, but everyone else thinks I am an idiot for caring about this thing...

They probably think I'm an idiot because I probably am...
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 0+-
I was going to say it was his choice of avatar, but I like Stiles' suggestion better.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 1+-
How old are you? You DON'T need a girlfriend. You just need to get laid.

Women like sex too, go get yours and stop worrying about relationships. Relationships are a hassle and women are dream killers. Once you get stuck with a woman, YOU no longer matter, then you have kids and you are COMPLETELY irrelevant and the only hope you'll ever see in life is living out your dreams through your kids - that sucks.


GO LIVE YOUR life and stop worrying about having an anchor around to drag you down.

Go get laid and then get laid again and again and realize that if you were in a relationship you wouldn't be having HALF the fun...

If you're under 27 years old - FOLLOW YOUR DREAMS, not a dream killer. There's PLENTY of time to get stuck in a relationship, there's only so much time to bag 18-24 year old babes before people think you're a pervert.
Permalink
Falcon02520Legend
544 days ago
Score 2+-
Not talking about the ladies anymore, that is not what I want, nor is that what I am upset over...
And yes, I am very happy with my success in the department of getting around with the girls...
Permalink
Falcon02520Legend
544 days ago
Score 4+-
That came out wrong, I don't want a relationship, I do want the ladies on their backs...
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 0+-
You ephing whore!!!

How can you respect yourself, pig?


Oh, the Flyers? Andy Sonnanstine is defying KD's jinx and you're whimpering like a pussy?


Oh forget it... I'm done playing Dr. Phil-ly...
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 0+-
"On their backs"??? Man, you really do have some living to do...
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Hey, Dr. Phil-ly..ever stop to think I'm the reason for Sonnanstine's success?
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 0+-
At least the "blowing his shutout" part... thanks. Ever think I'm the reason for Edwin Jackson's last 15 innings of shutout success??? I mean at least I've given EJax some words of direct encouragement...
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Yeah, last year. Either he's dumber than a bag of rocks or your advice wasn't so good.

You see what he's doing? 98 pitches through 8, 76 strikes.

Haven't seen a ratio like that in a long time.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 1+-
Greg Maddux-lite. Also the only Ray pitcher to give up more than 2 ER in a game in the last 12 games...
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Also the only Rays starter not to lose a game.... NEXT!!!
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Uhh... The Seattle Mariners on April 9th, during the Rays second home game of the season seem to think differently.

(the 1 behind the dash stands for a loss, KD)

All of this has nothing to do with the article. NEXT!
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 0+-
In the last 12 games, genius!! Geez, didn't know I would have to draw pictures too....
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Now you're digging yourself deeper... Jackson hasn't lost in the last 12 games either.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 0+-
NEXT!
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 0+-
So what, 13? Stop being a dick.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 0+-
It was 14 games, not 13. And Jason Hammel hasn't lost since then either - and he's also a "Rays starter".

I don't know what you think you can prove about "being right" about Sonnanstine, but stop junking up my article with non-NASFL - and therefore irrelevant - yap and I'll stop being a dick.

Actually, I won't stop being a dick, but here we are.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Jackson lost on May 2, giving the Rays a 16-13 record, 29 games. After tonites game, their record is 25-17, 42 games. 42-29 is 13. In the last 12 games, Hammel has had one appearance, and it was in relief. Stop always having to be right.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 0+-
And Jackson didn't lose in ANY of those 13 games since, did he?

Yes, I will stop always having to be right. Maybe I should start being wrong on purpose then?


Counting tonight's game, it was 14 games ago since Jackson's loss. You start counting with baseline as 1, not baseline plus one. The Rays are 9-4 in their last 13 games... the 13 games since Jackson lost... therefore, he didn't lose in any of those 13 games... it was 14 games since he lost. If only you had 14 fingers to help you out.

All of which still has nothing to do with NASFL.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Then I won't count tonights game then, either way it's 13. You said you had something to do, so go do it. Then the comments stop.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 0+-
But now I'm having more fun not counting tonight's game, even though if Sonnanstine would have lost in the game I won't count, we'd never have this extended thread of uselessness and the not-talking about the article than what I was going to do... things happen, and I'm done my other errands anyway. Hurray for multitasking!!! Boo for Site Scout.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 2+-
I keep forgetting about you being banned from all things credible.

You win.

(In theory only)
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 2+-
It's just a request to ban me from said credible things. The only thing I am really banned from is JaytheJoke.com - and we both know that it isn't in the same sentence as "credible" without the words "in no fucking way"...

Besides, I always "win in theory" (in theory, winning counts for exactly as much as real life.... jacksquat).

Winning is something losers do to give themselves value in an otherwise meaningless and valueless existence. You don't take your "wins" with you...


Hurray for the metroplexes of North America*!!!

  • United States + Toronto, that is...
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Speaking of, I see your old friend was trolling around the site earlier.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 2+-
Yeah... apparently my unrequited love is driving him crazier than Mariotti's unrequited love.

Must be the Jamel wearing off on (or into) him.

BTW - did I mention that I incredibly don't care about that psycho loser? He needs AGM in order to have something interesting to write about... I only needed him to realize that there are some truly screwed up internet trolls and cyberstalkers out there... Ugh.

I'm sure he'll sniff this comment out and make some lame mention in cyberspace about how "Mr. X lives in a trailer and should kill himself", et al...
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 2+-
Yeah, you mentioned it. And it's driving him facking insane, which is what I like.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Yeah, kharma is fun to watch from a distance...
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Anyone else notice that we haven't had to work on that Code of Conduct in the last 40 or so days?
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 0+-
anyone else notice that when you leave Stiles with a Yankees fan you get a totally off track conversation (btw I like to lurk, hooray site scout!)?
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
544 days ago
Score -5+-
This was actually an intelligent conversation you little dwarf, but then again, how would you know...
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 2+-
"little dwarf"???

What is a non-little dwarf?? A microgiant?


Anyway, I'd rather have a meaningless conversation with a Yankee fan than trying to carve a conversation out of an encounter with a Red Sox fan...

A Yankee fan will at least go back and forth and hold what is technically termed a "conversation". A Red Sox fan will merely spew the same monotonous drivel with Green Monster-sized horseblinders on and disregard anything in rebuttal as non-existant...


An "intelligent conversation"?? I don't know, we weren't curing world hunger by any means... but it was at least half intelligent just by default!!! After all, I was partly involved with it, hee hee!!!
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 0+-
And another difference between Yankee fans and Red Sox, (and also, apparently, Rays) fans. We don't give minuses.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 0+-
I gave the minuses... no need for personal attacks and name calling ("little dwarf", "Yankee fan") But I will save you hissy fit and not minus you for bitching about getting minused... (this time) =)
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 0+-
just because a conversation is intelligent doesn't make it on topic.

For instance, I could argue about the United States' Interventionalist history, and whether or not it has worked, but this would most certainly be an off topic discussion anywhere on this site.

And bullshit, everyone gives minuses. You're a liar if you claim otherwise.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 0+-
FP, I always am a can of worms ready to be accidentally spilled on the floor... whoever roots for who engaging with me is truly irrelevant... MANY styles. And if you read the thread, just about the only people who HAVE been on the topic are either Red Sox fans or people who live in Red Sox territory.
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 1+-
and ad hom attacks will get you nowhere Kelsdad
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 3+-
They will if they're actually funny!!!
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 0+-
I'm well aware of your ability to get engaged over everything/anything Manrays ;). It's an interesting conversation, and I was merely bringing up a point that had been brought up some 10-20 comments earlier
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 0+-
manny, although it sometimes irratates me when you reply to mserious comments with sarcasm/humor, that was definitely amusing. + for that
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 1+-
How the one after the dash stands for "losses"?


Like 18-1, for instance???
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Ad hom seriousness will get you nowhere... There's already too many serious moments in life.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
542 days ago
Score 0+-
that's what you think
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
542 days ago
Score 0+-
Thinking is for people who don't know.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
542 days ago
Score 0+-
Exactly. And I wasn't talking to you.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
542 days ago
Score 0+-
How do you know you weren't?
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Hey, Manny, who's got the shutout going tonite for the Rays....
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 2+-
Way to jinx it epher...

Different Day, Different Ray starter tossing 0 ER...

Who cares about the shutout? He's 2-2 with the stick!!!
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Like I didn't already know, thanks for playing... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Who said you didn't know? You should thank me for playing; I normally charge a hefty appearance fee...
Permalink
OvertheedgeVarsity
543 days ago
Score 0+-
nyc and la are one two, go figure
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
543 days ago
Score 1+-
You were expecting Utica and Walla Walla?
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
542 days ago
Score 1+-
Cucamonga! Seattle!
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
542 days ago
Score 1+-
Keokuk!!!
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
542 days ago
Score 1+-
Stop it...you're killing me!
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
542 days ago
Score 1+-
Brockway, Ogdenville and North Haverbrook?
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
542 days ago
Score 0+-
So let's see here....


It seems the games have not begun yet, but Boston is already in last place... didn't see THAT coming!!
Permalink | Reply
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Categories: Opinions | Opinions by User Manny Stiles | May 16, 2008 | May 2008 | Other Opinions | NASFL Opinions | NFL Opinions | NBA Opinions | MLB Opinions | NHL Opinions

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