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Barkingclam
Freelance writer, student

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Last thing the NHL needs is another team in Toronto

by Barkingclam
created October 23, 2008, last edited February 10, 2009
21
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It’s a juicy rumor, one that’s been reported by media outlets all around North America. The NHL, looking to expand, wouldn’t mind putting a second team in Toronto.

It’s just a rumor, but it’s the kind you just want to believe: Toronto, for all of it’s teams woes, is supposed to be a good hockey town. It’d be a good way for the NHL to increase its profile in Canada.

I’m not sold on it quite yet.

For all of the pomp and pageantry surrounding the Maple Leafs, Toronto is not a good hockey town, just as how New York is not a good baseball town. A Leafs town, yes, but not a Hockey town. Big difference.

Take the Toronto Road Runners for example. A minor league brother to the Edmonton Oilers, they were to take the old Maple Leaf Gardens as their home rink upon moving to the city in 2003. Blocked by the Leafs. They ended up in the Ricoh Colliseum instead and were forced out after a dispute with management of that rink – some say so the Leafs could move their own team, the Toronto Marlies, into the rink instead. The Roadrunners moved to Edmonton the next year.

Take the city itself: where would another team play? The only arena big enough to house a team long-term would be the Gardens, a decrepit, crumbling mass that the Leafs refuse to let anybody use for anything, ever (except to make a supermarket, in a plan that doesn’t seem to be going anywhere).

Take the NHL’s state of affairs: the NHL would like to expand again, but this time into the United States: Kansas City, Las Vegas and Oklahoma City seem likely, and one can’t rule out AHL cities like Houston or Seattle.

But with the NHL running like it is now – Forbes reported that 14 of its teams had a negative operating income in 2007 - expanding would not be a wise idea. Indeed, relocation would be wiser, so the NHL can move teams from poor markets (Long Island, Nashville, Phoenix, etc) to better markets (Hamilton, for example).

But herein lies the rub: there aren’t many untapped hockey markets left. You could even argue there aren’t any. Hamilton and area could support a team, or leech fans from the Buffalo Sabres. Houston could support a team, but it’s unlikely the Dallas Stars are missing any hockey fans in Texas.

So maybe instead of dropping more teams in cities that don’t care about hockey and instead of shuffling teams around from city to city, maybe the NHL should begin to consider eliminating some teams. Buy out two or four owners, dissolve the team and disperse the players in a common draft.

The quality of play will likely rise. The debt load of the league will likely drop. In the short term, it may make the NHL look even worse, but in the long run it could seriously help the league out of the hole it seems to be buried in.

Remember, more sportswriting like this can be found at North of the 400


Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
Smmonroe2Varsity Captain
402 days ago
Score 2+-
There are too many teams in the NHL. If one relocted to TOronto that would not help the problem.
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
402 days ago
Score 3+-
More or less teams in the league don't hurt a league. Crappily run franchises with a poor grasp on their market is what ruins leagues.

Here in Phoenix - it's not a bad market for hockey - it's just a bad team in a good market that would embrace hockey if the team would just WIN.


I still say the NHL will be the first league in Loss Vegaas.
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Davis21wylieMVP
402 days ago
Score 4+-
No, adding more teams definitely hurt the NHL in the 1990s. In his colossal cash grab of expansion fees and Sun Belt marketing dollars, Bettman bloated the league past the limits of what the talent pool could sustain, and you suddenly had minor-league-caliber talents trying to stop the world class players -- so they resorted to clutch-and-grab holding and trapping. As a result, the NHL became unwatchable, nobody cared when there was a lockout, and now their cable deal is with "Versus" or some shit... That's how more teams ruin a league.
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JuTMSY4Legend
402 days ago
Score 1+-
I'd like to merge both your comments

More teams in the league dilutes talent and hurts the league, look at the NBA (or even the NFL)

But Manny's right bad management kills teams (and fanbases)...moving a team (with new ownership) to toronto would energize a fan base and be better than some other markets...like phoenix...or nashville
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Davis21wylieMVP
402 days ago
Score 2+-
Hmm, where would the Coyotes' ideal market be? Oh, gosh, I don't know, maybe Winnipeg?
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Steel TownDraft Pick
401 days ago
Score 2+-
Winnipeg does not have the corporate sponsorship capabilities to support a team. Sure they would sell out every night, but it takes a lot more than ticket sales to keep a team financially viable. Winnipeg is a dead market.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
401 days ago
Score 0+-
like jersey sales?
Permalink
Steel TownDraft Pick
401 days ago
Score 2+-
Like luxury boxes and corporate sponsors. They didn't leave cause there wasn't a fanbase, they left cause there was no money in Winnipeg and they played in a glorified barn with no prospects of getting the city to fork out the money to build a new arena. Two years ago, the Penguins could have sold out every game all the way through the Stanley Cup and they still would have been in the red. There are plenty of cities in Canada that could support a team, unfortunately Winnipeg is not one of them. Put a team near Ft. McMurray.
Permalink
Smmonroe2Varsity Captain
401 days ago
Score 0+-
I mean look at the Bruins over the past few years, they were a real proud franchise who ran into some winning problems and are just now winning their fans back.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
402 days ago
Score 6+-
There's nothing wrong with Phoenix. Brand new, state of the art arena, easy access, solid fan base, the greatest all time player as the head coach. A few more wins would be nice, but every franchise says that. How about Hartford? Ownership intentionally buried a good franchise so they could move it. Give that area a good owner and a good arena and they'd have no trouble drawing big crowds.
Permalink | Reply
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
402 days ago
Score 3+-
I think a new team somewhere in New England is a great idea. There are a lot of hockey fans still out here who follow nothing but college hockey now because of all the problems with the NHL and the shitty teams the Bruins have put out there in recent years (although they look good this year). There's a minor league team in Manchester NH that gets big draws every game. People in New England love hockey, and I think a new team would energize the area. I could see them selling out every night with another team in New England, whether is be Manchester or Hartford or Providence or Maine, whatever. The demand is here and I know I'd be the first one to buy a shiny new hockey hat.
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
402 days ago
Score 4+-
The Monarchs get big draws thanks in part to their low prices ($22 for the best seats). Another NHL team in New England would probably draw good crowds, but would they get the same kind of TV revenue as the Bruins? Probably not. Don't forget, the Bruins are part owners of NESN, so they probably wouldn't broadcast too many games from Hartford. The Bruins have a hard enough time competing with the Red Sox, Patriots, and Celtics for TV ratings and media attention in the region. Another team would struggle even more.


I for one like having 1 NHL team in New England, surrounded with minor league teams, some excellent college teams, and some of the best high school teams in the country.
Permalink
Steel TownDraft Pick
401 days ago
Score 0+-
True Rawb, but I would prefer to put a hockey team into an existing hockey loving area than try to force feed hockey to a new city.
Permalink
Smmonroe2Varsity Captain
401 days ago
Score 0+-
All of the AHL teams in New England seem to do pretty well
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
402 days ago
Score 5+-
The area around Manchester would be ideal. That's where the Whalers practice facility was, plus you'd be a few miles closer to Bradley Airport. Hartford is identically even between Boston and New York and is in an ideal spot for multiple division rivalries. Matter of fact, for awhile, the Whaler's biggest rival was neither the Bruins or Rangers, but the Montreal Canadiens. It makes too much sense to have a team in the Hartford area, which, in the eye of the NHL, is why it will never happen.
Permalink | Reply
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
402 days ago
Score 4+-
It would definitely make so much more sense that another team in Toronto or going to a place like Houston or Oklahoma City where they don't want or need a hockey team. Las Vegas seems like the only other intriguing option to me, just to see how that would work out. Of course, they wouldn't get people who actually know and like hockey, since it would probably just be a sideshow for the tourists. And if they're worried about the Bruins, fack 'em. People are fed up with the Bruins and it's going to attract a whole new set of fan as well, who maybe know hockey, but don't follow the NHL. Not to mention bring in old fans who were abandoned by the Whalers. You're right, KD. It makes way to much sense...
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
402 days ago
Score 3+-
I used to work for the Whalers, and was a season ticket holder for awhile too. If I hit the Powerball, I'll bid for a team myself.
Permalink | Reply
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
402 days ago
Score 2+-
Sounds good to me. Bring 'em back home!
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
402 days ago
Score 0+-
The Whalers still have a solid fan base, as the fact their booster club is still active, not bad for a town that hasn't had a team in eleven years. Plus, they had the best effin' fight song EVER.
Permalink | Reply
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
402 days ago
Score 0+-
Wow, that's awesome! I'm sad to say that I'm too young to really remember much of the Whalers and my dad was a Bruins fan anyway, so that made me see even less Whale. But my Bruins allegiances never were really very strong, so I think another team in New England is just what I need to get my inner hockey fan pumped about the NHL.
Permalink
CityhockeyfeverVarsity Captain
402 days ago
Score 4+-
I am not supportive of two teams in Toronto and I hope it never happens. I think it's a terrible idea. There are other Canadian markets wanting to have another NHL team before any resemblance of an idea of two Toronto teams should ever be considered.

If you're going to add another team to the region, put it in Hamilton. There was this apprehensiveness about infringing on the Maple Leafs' strangehold on the market territory there, what makes having two in Toronto itself any better? I don't see why that makes more sense.

Think about this, despite the Islanders having their four straight Stanley Cups from 1980 to 1983 or the Devils winning theirs in 1995, 2000 and 2003, they'll always be second class teams to the Rangers. Why? The Rangers' long franchise history and its footprint in the New York City metropolitan area. The fan base is much more established and widespread than the other two teams. Marketability plays into it as well. Think about this, if there is a new second team in Toronto, they'll be in the shadow of the Maple Leafs. Do you really want that?

At least if there is a team in Hamilton, it may be in close promixity to Toronto in the Golden Horseshoe region, it is far enough away where it can grow its own fan base and niche to some kind of degree. Hamilton is obviously not as big as Toronto and is considered part of the Greater Toronto Area (GTA), but I just don't think from the start it will be an easy task for a second Toronto team to take hold.

As far as the three NHL teams in the New York City metropolitan area are concerned, we are talking about the second-largest metropolitan area on Earth to Tokyo-Yokohama in Japan. There's 22 million people here spanning 9 counties and 4 states. The Rangers are the marquee team in New York City itself, the Islanders represent Long Island and the Devils of course in New Jersey. It is close enough together where it is easy to get to see all three teams, but far enough away to establish their own home base of sorts. Only one is within New York City borders and that's the Rangers. You cannot say that's the case with Toronto under a scenario of two teams sharing either the same arena or the same city.

Either put a new team in Hamilton or just leave things as they are there. Toronto and Buffalo are close enough where two teams cover plenty of a footprint in the region.
Permalink | Reply
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
402 days ago
Score 2+-
I'm no geographist, but I heard someone mention Winnipeg early... why shouldn't they have a team before any cities in the Toronto area?
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
402 days ago
Score -1+-
Back in the WHA days, and in their first few NHL years, the Jets were a great franchise. Canada is more fickle than the States when it comes to hockey, if Edmonton, or Calgary, or even Vancouver are playing well, people will stay home and watch them on TV, rather than driving 20 minutes to see a bad local team. And, considering it's -30 half the time, can you blame them?
Permalink
Taytay 24All-American
402 days ago
Score 3+-
Geographer, geographist. Tomayto, tomahto.
Permalink
Steel TownDraft Pick
401 days ago
Score 1+-
Winnipeg doesn't have the money to support a team. Which is a shame cause they certainly have the fanbase.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
401 days ago
Score 2+-
I think you've got a valid point CHF...

I think I'm just in favor of more teams in canada. Obviously, my favorite franchise isn't going to move any time soon, but the fact of the matter is teams like the panthers, coyotes or predators shouldn't really be there.

Are the arena naming rights for a shitty hockey team in arizona worth that much more than the same rights for a good, loved hockey team in canada?
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
402 days ago
Score 1+-
Philadelphia is close enough to have an impact as well. They're about 80 miles from the Meadowlands, and maybe 90-95 from MSG and the Island. It was nothing for us in SW Connecticut to go 90 miles for a game at the Garden, or across the GW to see the Devils. Adding another team north, to give the New York teams a rival on the north side, and Boston and Montreal someone a bit closer is ridiculously simple. Atlanta had a team and lost it, now they're burying another one. Miami has as much business having an NHL team as Havana. Trust me, Hartford would take any team at any time, regardless if they're a piece of shit franchise or not.
Permalink | Reply
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
402 days ago
Score -1+-
Hartford should have a team before Miami, but not before Winnipeg, in my opinion. Unfortunately, the NHL is too focused on trying to conquer new markets instead of fully exploiting, and consolidating the one's in which they've already got a foothold.
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
402 days ago
Score 2+-
Why doesn't Milwaukee have a team? They play a lot of hockey up in Wisconsin, don't they?
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
401 days ago
Score 0+-
Wisconsin sucks, you know that ; - ) Speaking of hockey...How 'bout those Huskies, eh rawb?
Permalink
Steel TownDraft Pick
401 days ago
Score 4+-
Because Gary Bettman is an ass. Instead of expanding into natural markets he force fed the sun belt.
Permalink
Steel TownDraft Pick
401 days ago
Score 0+-
If it were up to me I would move Atlanta and Florida. I would put one in New England (Hartford) and put the other in Western Canada (Alberta or BC) and then put Detroit in the Eastern Conference so that they can revitalize their natural rivalries.
Permalink | Reply
CheezerAll-Star
401 days ago
Score 5+-
Call me simple, but it seems to me that hockey should be played in geographic locales that, ya know, get icy.
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
401 days ago
Score 5+-
simple
Permalink
CheezerAll-Star
401 days ago
Score 4+-
I figured it would be you.
Permalink
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
400 days ago
Score 0+-
The problem is that the NHL had to try to expand, because if it contracts, European Leagues will jump all over it. The NHL has plenty of talent to fill 30 teams, it just doesn't have the people who want to see it. There are plenty of places who would happily watch the NHL. I'm thinking of Stockholm, Helsinki, Prague, Gothenburg, Moscow, St. Petersberg, Kiev, Munich, Vienna, Zurich, Berlin, Malmo, Tampere, Oslo, Volgograd, Dnipro... you get the idea.
Permalink | Reply
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Categories: Opinions | Opinions by User Barkingclam | October 23, 2008 | October 2008 | NHL Opinions | Toronto Maple Leafs Opinions | National Hockey League Opinions | Hockey Opinions

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