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Allonthefield

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If it wasn't for Spygate, would the Patriots be here?

by Allonthefield
created January 30, 2008, last edited February 10, 2009
11
Vote

From All on the Field sports blog: It's a simple hypothetical question, and we'll never know for sure.

Four and a half months ago, New England trounced the New York Jets in the season opener. But the bigger storyline was that the Patriots had cameras trained on the New York sidelines, and they got caught doing it. That storyline evolved into Spygate, and resulted in a $500,000 fine levied on Bill Belichick, a $250,000 fine on the New England franchise, and the loss of a 2008 draft pick.

But for everything the Patriots lost, they gained one thing: a major chip on their shoulders. There were no personnel changes, of course, but there was a shift in mentality. A good team was suddenly great. Each game suddenly became an opportunity to prove to the world that spy cameras or no, New England was the best team in the league.

The effect was utter humiliation for nearly every opponent on the Patriots' schedule. New England, as we all know, won the next 15 games of the regular season in record-setting fashion, setting single-season marks for points scored, touchdown throws, and touchdown receptions.

So here's the question of the day: if Spygate had never happened, would the Patriots be in the Super Bowl? And your bonus question: if it wasn't for Spygate, would New England have gone undefeated?


Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
697 days ago
Score -1+-
A: Yes. Read into things much? A#2: What? Yes they would still be undefeated. Weird wording for your question.
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Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
697 days ago
Score 0+-
Why did I get minus 3 on my response? Come on spygate never helped the Patriots. They are a great team. I don't think it helped at all.
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JuTMSY4Legend
697 days ago
Score 0+-
Well...your responses to the question didn't answer things...

Like, for example, you could have said...no, spygate didn't have an effect because the pats beat the jets a second time...

and the second question isn't weirded oddly, he was referencing the the spygate rallying cry...
Permalink
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
697 days ago
Score -1+-
I didnt' answer the question with more insight because to me it's a ridiculous question. It was the JETS, not Indi, not Dallas, not Green Bay, not even the Giants. It was the JETS. The Patriots could win against the Jets with their 3rd string players.

And to answer the second question: it was the JETS. They have won against Indi, the Chargers, and many other great teams without cheating. They don't need to. Why they did is another story but they have proven they don't need the cameras in order to win.

A better questions would be: Why did this story become a non-story so quickly? The spygate story is what I am referring to. It was dropped by the media in a day or two. What's up with that?
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JuTMSY4Legend
697 days ago
Score 0+-
it wasn't dropped in a day or two...

secondly, any football team can win on any given sunday...

if we knew the outcomes, there'd be no sports betting ; - )
Permalink
DNLLegend
697 days ago
Score 3+-
Your missing the point. The question is whether the Pats wanted to "prove" that they didn't need to cheat to win, therefore spurring them to beat Indy, SD, etc.
Permalink
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
697 days ago
Score 0+-
I'm not missing the point. This is a completely theoretical question. It's like asking "If Brett Favre would have said this was his last year and he was going to retire" would the Packers have played a better game a week ago? To win for Brett. Give it their all. Perhaps. Perhaps not. I'm not trying to kill the fun of this article I just don't see how you can possibly answer the question, with or without "proof". Sorry.
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
697 days ago
Score 0+-
Should the New England Patriots defeat the Giants, we all know that Bill Belichick will immediately and lavishingly credit Spygate after receiving the trophy from Goodell......
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FrugolfVarsity Captain
697 days ago
Score 1+-
The questions can't be answered.There was a spygate and they are undefeated.I don't believe anyone thinks that without spygate the Jets would have beat the Pats.That's the only game that spygate may or may not have helped them.The only one that may have remained hyped up over spygate after that is Belichick, and he doesn't play the game.
Permalink | Reply
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
697 days ago
Score 2+-
But the Patriots won 21 straight games in 2003 and 2004. This team came very close to winning the AFC Championship last season (and probably would have beaten the Bears in the Super Bowl, but who knows) then added Randy Moss and Wes Welker. If they wouldn't go undefeated without SpyGate, I think it's safe to say they would have gone 15-1 and maybe, MAYBE 14-2 and still go to the Super Bowl.
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JuTMSY4Legend
697 days ago
Score 0+-
all agree with that...except, for the not going undefeated part...

Lets face it...how many teams could have gone 15-1 but didn't try after things were rapped up...the pats might have even gone 13-3 if those final 2 games would have no implications...

but as far as legitimate games, had they lost one early and the colts kept pace, then yeah they'd be 15-1 most likely...

but that scenario changes lots of things...
Permalink
CheezerAll-Star
697 days ago
Score 2+-
Since the Patriots were caught cheating in 2007, in my mind that brings questions to anything that they accomplished (under the same management) prior to 2007. I understand that I am in the minority for my opinion with regards to the greatness of the Patriots.
Permalink
Steel TownDraft Pick
697 days ago
Score 0+-
I tend to agree with you cheezer. I don't think they really cheated this year. What I think is that they have been cheating for years and got caught early on this year. BTW Mangini should be in trouble for not saying anything earlier. He clearly knew what was going on and tried to use it to his advantage.
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
697 days ago
Score 0+-
Right, that 21 game win streak was all because of the cameras.
Permalink
Steel TownDraft Pick
697 days ago
Score 1+-
Nobody said it was all because of the cheating. Some people just question how much of an impact the cheating had. I find hard to believe that you sit back and think that they cheated for shits and giggles and didn't use it to their advantage to win games. This is the whole problem with cheating, it ruins your reputation. Maybe they didn't need to cheat. And even if they didn't need to as so many of their fans state, they did, and they got caught. And don't give me this "They were punished" crap. That has nothing to do with public opinion.
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
696 days ago
Score 1+-
Don't go easy on them, Steel Town. All those past accomplishments are worthless now because of filming signals which are plainly visible to everyone in the stadium. The Patriots violated a rule (that was not to be strictly enforced until this season) that the Packers actually asked the Pats' cameraman to leave the field. A gross violation so heinous that the Patriots asked the Jets' cameraman to leave the field when they were filming our signals. So don't go easy on these cheating scumbags. Pour on the asterisks, question EVERYTHING, and make sure to talk about it EVERY DAY.
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
696 days ago
Score 0+-
violated a rule so important^
Permalink
Steel TownDraft Pick
696 days ago
Score 1+-
I can't figure you Pats fans out. Which one is it. Did they not need to cheat, or is it that they only cheated a little, or is it that the rule they broke was insignifigant especially since they only started heavily enforcing it this year. Please help me figure this out. I would like to know the appropriate justification for cheating.
Permalink
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
696 days ago
Score 0+-
Belicheat should have been given a lifetime ban for that crime. That would have been great! Cheaters never prosper.... well, I guess in this case they do.
Permalink
Davis21wylieMVP
694 days ago
Score 0+-
And, my god, we got flagged for false starts, holding, pass interference, offsides, and illegal blocks in the back all season, too! Damn, what a bunch of cheaters we are!
Permalink
MetsJetsDevilsDraft Pick
697 days ago
Score 2+-
It is an interesting question. Do I believe that if the Patriots hadn't been caught cheating they would still be undefeated? I think that Pats are undefeated because they played better than their opponents and in the few instances where they didn't, they did just enough to win (i.e. the Eagles game). But perhaps your question is more theoretical. If the Patriots hadn't benefitted from years of illegally filming their opponents would they be as good. That question is more difficult to answer. I am going to out on a limb and say that not only is this season tainted, but all the super bowl are tainted, and the drubbing they got in the '85 super bowl to the Bears is tainted as well. The Larry Bird era Celtics are also tainted by this as are the following: Bobby Orr, David Ortiz and Gerald Phelan. However, Roger Clemens is not tainted because the steroids and HGH effectively counteracted the taint.
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JuTMSY4Legend
697 days ago
Score 0+-
which taint are you referring to again?
Permalink
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
697 days ago
Score 0+-
I like this answer. Sorry I should have read this before posting my last comment up above. Belicheat is the one who benefited most. Let's stick a * beside the Patriots name when they win the Super Bowl this year. That would make everyone happy.
Permalink
Steel TownDraft Pick
697 days ago
Score 1+-
You can't put an asteriks next to any of their championships. There is no proof (cause the NFL burned it all) just speculation.
Permalink
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
697 days ago
Score -1+-
It's all a conspiracy. Burning the proof. I hate fire. Always gets rid of all the proof. Still, I say we * it. Just for this year. The Pats still win, their fans are happy. We stick a * beside it and all the other football fans are happy. Looks like a good win-win to me. Who's with me? :)
Permalink
CrackajgDraft Pick
696 days ago
Score 0+-
Although SpyGate occurred the Patriots never got to use any of the intel in regards to it. So FRANKLY (Haha, get it?), there's no need for an asterisk.
Permalink
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
696 days ago
Score -1+-
But we don't know how long this was going on for. So I still say we * the win. I still feel like it's a good win-win for everyone.
Permalink
Smmonroe2Varsity Captain
697 days ago
Score 1+-
Ya I think they would still be undeafeted, they are still a good team, this just gave them a little more motivation, I don't think the score of games would be as high but I think they would have gone 16-0 regardless.
Permalink | Reply
LASportsblogAAA-er
697 days ago
Score 0+-
Please Super Bowl, just show up, come and go - between the Mock Drafts and the hypotheticals I'm ready to crawl under a rock and never come out.... But then so many (read: 3 people) would be happy that I was gone!
Permalink | Reply
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
696 days ago
Score -1+-
Don't wish football to be over too soon LASportsblog. Without it what do we have left... hockey? golf? basketball?.... I might have to start paying attention to my family soon :(
Permalink
AcbabeisonVarsity
696 days ago
Score 0+-
My answer to both questions is yes. The execution is the important thing, you could tell Rex Grossman exactly what the defense was going to do and he would still throw the ball as hard as he could off his back foot, either into the arms of the defender he knew would be there, or 6 rows deep into the stands.
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AllonthefieldVarsity
696 days ago
Score 2+-
Some of you are missing the point here. My thanks to those of you who aren't. Look, I know the Patriots are a phenomenal team, with or without this Spygate incident. But I'm wondering if Spygate awoke a "sleeping giant"; e.g., might they not have lost a couple of games along the way like all but one other team in history has done, rather than decimating every team that dared to show up on their schedule?
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Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
696 days ago
Score -1+-
I know I have been a little hard on you on this article Alonthefield but at the same time I don't think anyone here is really "missing" the point. NE has been a great team for a few years now. I just don't think that Spygate awoke anything. The Pats are a great team and if anyone asked me "Who is going to win the Super Bowl this season?" before preseason I would have (unfortunately) said NE. When Spygate occured it only made me laugh. I laughed because I hate Belicheat. I also think Brady is over-rated. But I still say "hate" and "over-rated" at the same time knowing and respect that they are a great team. In other words I respect them at the same time loathe them.
Permalink
AcbabeisonVarsity
695 days ago
Score 0+-
I think they are all profesionals and would have won those games anyway. I don't think they needed any extra motivation to make history.
Permalink
GeodanVarsity
696 days ago
Score 1+-
I think there are many opportunities for teams to do well and succeed. I also believe that if you get and maintain the focus of a team they can be more successful. I have no doubt that the attention from Spygate got their undivided attention. All the talk of cheating caused them to circle the wagons.

There is nothing more motivating to a pro athlete than to make him feel disrespected and disingenuous.

I think it is similar to when a team looses a teammate to illness or injury. Their attitude towards there job changes. Their desire to win is enhanced.

i.e. When the Red Wings lost Vladimir Konstantinov after winning the Stanley Cup in 1997 they returned more focused and determined to win in 1998. They dedicated that season to him and the results speak volumes.

I've also seen the same sort of change occur when Steve Yzerman went down with injuries and the team would rally around one another and excel.

I'm sure others of you have seen many more examples of this than I have. It's the same for the Patriots.

Your comments prove that their is distrust in the past accomplishments of the Patriots. "Have they cheated all the time?" has been asked over and over.

What better reason can they have to rally around their skipper and each other than against their foes. What better way to show your mettle than to win. And win they have.

Perhaps even 19-0.
Permalink | Reply
SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 1+-
Why are you guys acting as if the Patriots are the only team that did this? I hate the Pats so much, but sometimes things are stretched a little too far.

If they had finished 10-6, not great, but enough to win the #4 seed, we'd be talking about Spygate.

If they had finished 1-15, Spygate.

If they had finished every record imaginable, Spygate.

The fact of the matter is, we don't know if they cheated in the past, we don't know if they continued to cheat this year. What we do know, is that Mangini ratted them out, and they lost a draft pick.
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The PipDiv-I Stud
696 days ago
Score 3+-
Again for the record: The chip on their shoulder this season always was the 2006 AFC championship game in which they could not hold an 18 point lead. Belichick was pissed about it all year and concluded that the best way to beat the Colts in that situation would be to get into a track meet with them and run them to exhaustion. He wanted to out gun the Colts offense. That's why he was Ming the Merciless this year when it came to running up the score. That's why he acquired THREE wide receivers in the off-season. He wanted everyone in the NFL to KNOW that once the Patriots had a lead they would be untouchable, and unstoppable. Spygate was a convenient excuse and one BB was happy to use. Lastly: Unlike most sports figures when caught BB admitted his guilt and took his punishment like a man. No denials, no excuses. How many steroids using athletes have done that from the moment they were caught?
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
696 days ago
Score 0+-
Good point about last year's loss to Indy. The main reason the Pats lost that game was an inability to put the Colts away with more scores, or at least hang onto the ball and give the defensive line a breather. Getting Moss, Welker, and Stallworth fits into the notion that Belichick didn't want to give up any lead ever again. And instead continually pound an opponent.
Permalink
Cougar2000All-American
696 days ago
Score 0+-
There is cheating in sports, don't get me wrong. Remember Joe Niekro, who got caught with a nail file on the mound while he was pitching for the Twins? The trick is not to get caught. At least New England took their punishment and moved on. Should the Pats win (which I BELIEVE will happen), then Spygate will be forgotten.
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FrugolfVarsity Captain
696 days ago
Score 0+-
If the NFL would have allowed access to the tapes they confiscated we would know how much of an advantage they may or may not have had.They destroyed them all so nobody will ever know.I believe the loss to the Colts last year is their motovation for this year, not Spygate.
Permalink | Reply
HallowedbethynameSoccer Kid
694 days ago
Score -1+-
If any of you people who think NE's "cheating" is so out of line, then explain why almost every team employs someone to watch other teams defensive signals. Also, if you think NE is the only team to videotape that you are crazy. NE just got caught, that fat piece of crap in NY.
Permalink | Reply
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
694 days ago
Score 1+-
Oh, so it is Eric Mangini's fault that the Patriots cheated. Thanks for clarifying.
Permalink
Davis21wylieMVP
694 days ago
Score 0+-
Hey, all I'm saying is that Mangina could take some advice from Carmelo Anthony...
Permalink
Steel TownDraft Pick
694 days ago
Score 0+-
At least Rawb's blind love comes with a little bit of intelligence. I don't know what to make of this.

first off, every team employs someone to watch the other teams defensive signals so they can figure them out. Ufortunately this part of your argument is RETARDED because the Pats were fined, not for watching the other teams signals, but for sending a camera man onto the other teams sidelines and filming the coaches talking to each other. Not really the same thing, is it?

Second, saying that New England isn't the only team doing it is also moot. You have no proof of this being a leaguewide problem, nor does "everybody's doing it" make for a valid excuse.
Permalink
Frank StevensonRed-Shirting
694 days ago
Score 0+-
Can we all at least agree to * the Pats win?
Permalink
Davis21wylieMVP
694 days ago
Score 0+-
Yeah, and then we can * all those other teams who broke the rules to gain an advantage -- like when they jumped in the neutral zone before the snap, or had an offensive lineman move before the snap, or impeded an opponent to prevent him from catching a pass, or...
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
694 days ago
Score 2+-
Good thing that hotel was called Watergate and not Morningwood.
Permalink | Reply
HallowedbethynameSoccer Kid
693 days ago
Score -2+-
You are ignornat and not being homest if you thing the Pats are the only team "chaeating". NE just taped it and got caught. Goodell himself yesterday said the all the teams employ some sort of stealing signs. All you people caliming the Pats cheating tainted their wins are fools. How about this if they thought the Pats were stealing signs change them. Or even better beat the damn team on the field. You dont go 18-0 by just stealing signs it takes executlion and good players.
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
693 days ago
Score 1+-
"You dont go 18-0 by just stealing signs it takes executlion and good players." -THEY JUST DID!!
Permalink
Anonymous Fanatic #1
680 days ago
Score 0+-
i personally think this shirt says it all. the pats are a great team, no doubt, but geting busted videotaping other teams play calls and signals....video taping them.....VIDEO TAPING THEM......cheaters. http://notre...pastths.html
Permalink | Reply
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Categories: Opinions | Opinions by User Allonthefield | January 30, 2008 | January 2008

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