Goodbye, Norma Jean... I mean "Red Light Curt" - A Very Non-Objective View Of A Legend's Mythical Journey

Yeah, I saw him hoist one in my town before you did... so what? OJ Simpson won a Heisman, Mike Tyson was a heavyweight Champion, R. Kelly won a bunch of Grammys and Roman Polanski got an Oscar, Adolph Hitler was Time Magazine's Man of the Year...

http://www.d...s.com/Boston Red Sox 2007 WS Ring.jpg

http://www.d...s.com/Boston Red Sox 2007 WS Ring.jpg

It's a picture of a Red Sox WS ring...

manny, today i decided to do something unprecedented - I've fact checked your article, and now I'm calling bullshit.

Bullshit claim 1: "we know you took 'greenies'"
I googled both "curt schilling AND greenies" and "curt schilling AND amphetamines" and the two closest things to proof that this is true were this article (its a top 5 result when you search for schilling's name and greenies) and several articles that mentioned Schilling calling out Bonds for using roids. making assumptions about things like this is pretty absurd (and don't give me your typical bullshit about how all players use(d) them. I want proof, not your anecdotal tails).

Bullshit claim number 2: schilling was called to the Capitol Hill session on Steroids in baseball because he was suspected of using them. statement made here.

While Schilling was called to DC to be part of the hearing, he was NOT there because he was suspected of usage, but (along with Frank Thomas) was brought there to be part of an Advisory committee it's quite funny what you can learn by actually looking at news sources...

bullshit claim number 3: "we know the "Bloody Sock" was bullshit

O RLY? That's funny, because where I come from, in order to be certain of something, you need a bit more proof than a statement based that was misquoted...

Anyways, most people don't bet $1 million on things they know are false and I dare you to have your ankle skin sutured down to the tissue covering the bone in your ankle joint, then walk around for 4 hours, go find a mound, throw a hundred or so pitches, and then see if your ankle is bloody.... That seems like a pretty reasonable assumption to me.

Ugh... why do I do this? It's so easy, but ughhh.

(deep groan) Here we go.

1. 1 - You're going to tell me that while it is common fact that every single MLB clubhouse was supplying greenies to their players since the late 60's and 70's (or perhaps well before) and Schilling played with some of the biggest dopers and speedfreaks (Dykstra, Daulton, Incaviglia, Danny Jackson, etc.) - and was VERY GOOD friends with them - in the history of the game, yet he never once, EVER took any? OK. I guess MY head is in the sand and I am the one bullshitting.

1. 2 - Read that comment again if you're going to link it.... (I'll wait for you)

I absolutely did NOT accuse Schilling of using 'roids NOR did I say Schilling was called to Capitol Hill because he was accused... PLEASE do not bend a statement for your personal use unless you're a professional. Thanks.

I asked if you ever wondered WHY he was asked to come. Answer - He WASN'T asked to come by anyone in Congress - He begged to go VOLUNTARILY because he knew that it was free publicity - and it was a chance to schmooze and get some pictures taken. During the hearing he spoke out against their usage yet NEVER EVER ONCE gave any info on any personal knowledge that he might have been privy to... AND when cornered why he couldn't provide any info other than hearsay - since he didn't have any direct knowledge of roid usage - he shut the fuck up. Read the transcripts - I listened to the whole proceedings.

But ever since then he flipped and suddenly knew that everyone DID use. He called out other players by name all of a sudden. OK. He knows that players use them but never saw any being used? Which was it Curt?

1. 3 - The bloody sock was bullshit for a VERY simple reason - if it was truly bleeding, truly sutures that were "ripped apart", where was the bandage? WHAT KIND OF DOCTOR - the doctor that performed a procedure on a high-profile professional athlete, mind you - would haphazardly leave a wound improperly covered??? Why wasn't there a bandage over the wound to prevent dirt, bacteria... hell, even sock threads or lint from infecting the wound? Curt played it up like a ham, like a clown. And he said he had no idea about it bleeding, but he clearly tinkered around with the ankle in the dugout and on the mound. WHY WOULDN'T he be tinkering with it? How would he have NOT been conscious of it? He just got "surgery" on it! (One can hardly consider a stapled/sutured out-of-the-way ligament as major surgery)

BTW - I pitched an 8 inning one hitter 6 days after tearing ligaments and getting over 20 adhesion fractures (little tiny splinters of bone pulled off by the tearing of the ligaments) in my left ankle. I was taken out of the game by my coach when I was hit by a pitch in my lower left leg (I couldn't jump to get out of the way of the pitch, but was able to get my right leg out of the way first). Where's my medal?

Oh yeah, I still limp because of it.

And furthermore - how many cortisone shots did he get before and during the game? Ever had a cortisone shot before? How is a cortisone shot NOT "cheating"? Is it fair that he was the only player getting cortisone?

1. 4 - I hope you feel important when you play these games. I would do the same if you wrote an article - oh yeah, I don't do this calling bullshit stuff without a legitimate reason - save your vendettas for your video game playing, this is the real world - and oh yeah, I can't do it anyway because you don't write articles.

damned wiki...

You're going to tell me that while it is common fact that every single MLB clubhouse was supplying greenies to their players since the late 60's and 70's (or perhaps well before) and Schilling played with some of the biggest dopers and speedfreaks (Dykstra, Daulton, Incaviglia, Danny Jackson, etc.) - and was VERY GOOD friends with them - in the history of the game, yet he never once, EVER took any? OK. I guess MY head is in the sand and I am the one bullshitting.

I absolutely did NOT accuse Schilling of using 'roids NOR did I say Schilling was called to Capitol Hill because he was accused...

Here's some food for thought: did you EVER stop to wonder why HE was called to Washington for the great "Steroids" hearing before Congress???

huh?

"Huh" - there's some depth of analysis.

Whatever dude. Don't like me? I don't care - that's your fault -and you don't even know why. Come and get me all you want. I'm your personal target - good for you. I frighten you with insights and things you'd never stop to think about? Good - be scared.

I stand by my words, my efforts and my stories. Let Curt Schilling argue it with me himself because I know and he knows -he can't. It's not worth it for him to lose face. He can say he doesn't have to stoop to a peon like me - well I'm as much of a blogger as he is, aren't I? He has worked too hard on his "good name" to risk admitting any truths.

"Did you ever wonder" is a question not an accusation. But - Did you ever wonder?

Go read the transcript for yourself...

Please, take a break from sniffing my farts to get a breath of fresh air and let that oxygen get to your brain and let your brain ponder this thought - What do you hope to achieve in trying to pin me down with your inane games of semantics?

I've seen this one before? so when do you "retire" again?

To clarify - for those that can't follow the bouncing ball - I said "Schilling took greenies" and was a hypocrite for accusing roiders of "cheating"... I didn't accuse him of 'roiding.

Personally, I don't care if he did both. I probably would have if I was an MLB player during the same time. I don't blame anyone for trying to get the same edge that wasn't being regulated by the game- or more properly - was being SUPPORTED by the game. For the millions of dollars that were flowing around, WHO WOULDN'T HAVE taken steroids?

For a few million dollars, you can call me a cheater - keep in mind I am not a cheater - but for that kind of cache, I wouldn't have a hard time bending my ethics and you can call me a cheater all you want.

But I wouldn't be ripping the guys who did, either.

Look. I haven't changed my stance on this since day one. I know lots of guys personally who took steroids that WEREN'T pro athletes - simply put, they work when they are used properly.

wait for it...

"so when do you "retire" again?" Right after you pass me in comments. Better get to your copy and pasting some more, Big Guy.

You can raise suspicion about the possibility of Curt taking illegal substances, but to unequivocally declare it as fact simply because he KNEW people who did is something a person in 1692 Salem would do.

What's really funny about your argument here is that your support is that there cannot be support. You're assuming he'd do it because he couldn't be caught. Therefore, because he couldn't be caught and wasn't caught... he did it.

Oh, and your medal for pitching with torn ligaments will come when you do it in the ALCS. Stop being so jealous.

Maybe you should write an article about it?

He never denied taking amphetemines because he can't.

I could say I have a source that "allegedly" has first hand knowledge of such an event, but I'm not that kind of person. I prefer to say things that sound vague yet no one can prove me wrong anymore than I need to prove them right.

Like I said, you write an article and prove otherwise.

I don't really want a medal and I'm not jealous. I'm damned proud of what I did. We still lost the game because the kid who relieved me came in and gave up 9 earned runs.

It was answering the question, not bragging.

Again, I'm not blaming him for taking greenies... I'm blaming him for being a hypocrite and accusing roid users of cheating when - clearly - amphetemines improve performance too.

I don't understand why so many people are so willing to defend him - or is it just to attack me? Gee, I wonder.

So unless I can somehow discover and prove every activity in Curtis Montague Schilling's life and point out that taking speed was not one of these activities, you will STATE that he did? That's beyond bias. That's sad hatred. You just can't give him credit for being a good pitcher, can you? You don't like him so anyone who even says "Yeah, he's OK" you go bananas.

You know, I've never denied taking amphetamines either. I guess that means I did take them?

re: greenies:

1. lets assume that you're right and that for 40 years, practically everyone in baseball did greenies. That ain't proof that he did, just your assumption. I said give me proof, and you respond with "well everyone was doing it". I think you and canseco should meet up. You two seem like you'd be pals.

Also, if it's SO OBVIOUS, why are you the only person on the Web that I can find saying it? I feel that if it was this obvious, there'd be AT LEAT someone else on the interwebs shouting with you.

Oh yeah, and the statement "we know he used greenies" implies more that just trying them a couple times. It suggests some degree of regularity over time. Even if he tried them, it doesn't mean he was a legit user.

re: steroids:

First, you say he just "showed up" - Then how did he magically end up on a panel with committee leaders and Frank Thomas if he "invited himself" (this is in the cnn article i linked to on this point)? Generally, to get named to some fancy panel, you first have to get invited, or at least, that's the way it normally works...

Second, you point to his contradictory positions/statements. If schilling is a total dbag because he started making accusations about people without even knowing if these accusations are true, then doesn't this apply equally to yourself???

As an aside, Justin covered my first thought about your comment already.

I'd say that his changed story could be due to any number of factors, including, but not limited to: He was calling out players who had essentially already been proven to be users, it still was heresay, for any number of reasons he had a stronger reason to believe these people were/are guilty, etc.

re: sock

So I'm supposed to believe your claim that an unverified rumor is true even though the man has a $1 million reward for anyone who can prove the rumor is true, AND the supposed "source" of the rumor denies ever saying so?

Second, blood soaks through bandages. I assume you've had some sort of deep cut/gash, and even with a bandage to protect it, blood can still soak through the bandage and into the sock. I've had it happen with covered blisters before.

In terms of why he wouldn't realize the blood: 1. he lied about not realizing it; 2. he didn't notice it because when you're the starting pitcher in a must win game in the ALDS at Yankee Stadium, and you just had a tendon stitched/sutured out of place, whether or not you have blood on your sock is prolly not a high concern; 3. because even if he noticed it, he probably didn't think much of it.

Did schilling overplay this? Probably. Does that mean it was a scam? no.

Re: cortizone -

There's one reason that is undeniably true as to why it's not cheating:

IT'S NOT AGAINST THE RULES. By definition, you can't cheat if it's not against the rules. I'm not sure what more of a justification you could need.

Re: write your own article:

1. When I do, I'll make sure it's factually accurate

2. Writing an article takes me a free weekend/evening, something I don't have right now. It also requires me to be able to watch a team/event frequently or have an idea that I can tackle relatively quickly (I have a major project I started at some point last summer and need to find where I stored it. I'll prolly finish that this summer). If I had the time that i need to write a good article, I would.

I DID say he was a good pitcher, numbnuts! Obviously he was a major leaguer, he couldn't have sucked too bad!

I said he wasn't good enough to get into the Hall.

If you say people shouldn't take illegal substances when you know you have, then you're a hypocrite just like Curt. That's all. If you do it on a National platform and call out your fellow teammates, then you're an asshole, just like Curt.

Numbnuts? Alright, he's a good pitcher, just a horrible human being. You even criticize him for giving to charity.

I think in the 2004 ALCS, he faked the ankle injury in Game 1. He and the Sox, or maybe just some of them, threw Games 2 and 3. Then, when the odds were nice and juicy, placed all the $$$ they had on themselves to win it all. They must've gotten paid off BIG TIME.

And how did they know they would win it all when they were down 3-0? They were all on speed.

yo asshole - remind me where I said either "it's cool to take illegal substances" or "Curt Schilling is a great pitcher so lay off"???

FP: You said it in his mind.

FP: perhaps you shouldn't read my response to Rawb and assume it was meant for you? Eh? Unfortunately, asshole, I didn't bother to read your gibberish and I was typing mmy response to Rawb at the same time you had posted your afore mentioned gibberish.

I'm sorry you feel that legitimate criticism is "jibberish".

Would you rather me kiss your ass instead? Because if so, here's my "new and improved" comment:

Oh great one, I could not agree more. Curt Schilling is a horrible person and should be burned at the stake for his sins. Everyone who disagrees with you is a retard and should be banned from armchairgm indefinitely...

What are you trying to accomplish?

Nice try, but tone down your usage of the word "retard".

I'm sorry you feel offended that I didn't respond to your accusations personally EACH time. The world really is much bigger outside of your head.

^^^Desperate comment of the day^^^

We criticize athletes for giving the token, cliche, "gave 110%" responses to questions. Then we criticize them for speaking their minds?

As a fan, I remember all the times Schilling would open his big mouth. And I remember how much more I cared about what he did on the mound.

I don't care that he ever "spoke his mind". More power to him. I wish more athletes would break out of the comfort of cliches, but what bothers me is that people don't know who he really is and worse yet, they take the time to listen to him. And no matter what - he doesn't deserve to get into the Hall of Fame.

Is there an athlete that the public "know who he really is?"

The media - people who SHOULD know who he is - are the people who inform the public. You only know what you experience or what someone else WANTS you to know in this world.

"but what bothers me is that people don't know who he really is"

I actually agree with this last comment you just made, but about that quote.......do YOU KNOW who Curt Schilling is? If the answer is no, technically you wouldn't know who he really is either. You're in the same bucket as us.

Do I even care who he is? He's a baseball player, not my uncle. As long as he doesn't kill anyone or beat his wife, and as long as he goes out and does his job in the uniform of my favorite team; that's good enough for me.

You guys, I completely forgot to mention that I totally appreciated what he has done as a member of the Red Sox, and as a baseball player in general. That was my bad. You're definitely correct, Rawb, on the fact that we, as fans, should appreciate what they do on the field. However, I've always liked players a whole lot more because of how they act off the field (and, of course, their work ethic), and how they don't act.

It's a complete package thing, Romi. I agree with your sentiment fully.

OJ Simpson can never kill enough people to make anyone forget how incredible he was on the field, but...

Keep in mind, there's guys like Bonds and T.O. who do a LOT of unnoticed good as well. We are always quick to judge and quicker to pile on, but it drives me nuts when we turn around and give guys TOO much credit, too.

I know it's romantic to turn every athlete into Cal Ripken, but guess what - even Cal has skeletons in his closet!

I know they're human, I actually want them to be human - I don't care if they get wasted and take home ugly chicks or go hoe and cut off their mattress tags - I HATE it when they get portrayed by the media as something more than human - as "Saviors" - and then start to not only belive that but to play up to that personna whenever they can...

Do you always act like this when someone disagrees with your OPINION?

what ssr said

Honestly, I was never really the biggest Schilling fan. I don't read his blog, or even pay attention to much of what he says. He came in and won a World Series, but he stole glory from my favorite player in anything ever: Pedro Martinez.

But when he did this, when he was at least clever enough to realize "Fox is going to show my ankle on TV 10,000 times so I'll advertise for my charity" that's one of my favorite Schilling moments.

You can belittle his charitable exploits and question his motives. But most people have questionable motives when it comes to charity. Tax break, self-importance, impressing others, sense of responsibility. But tell that to people who have ALS or melanoma, and they'll probably tell you that they don't care WHY people give money to K ALS or the SHADE Foundation.

I've got better and more rewarding things to do. Close enough...

If that's not prelude to "I'm leaving AGM" I don't know what is.

It means I have to put my kids to bed... May God bless you with the understanding of the word "rewarding" someday.

"You can belittle his charitable exploits and question his motives. But most people have questionable motives when it comes to charity. Tax break, self-importance, impressing others, sense of responsibility. But tell that to people who have ALS or melanoma, and they'll probably tell you that they don't care WHY people give money to K ALS or the SHADE Foundation." Thanks for rewording exactly what I said. Glad we can agree on something.

Ibid.

Oops...

May God reward you with the blessing of understanding some day.

Define understanding and then tell me why YOU think it's important for anyone to have it like you think you do.

I don't know if anybody should be aspiring to my level of understanding. But I do know that I've had many arguments with many people on this site and off this site. You're the only one who throws a hissy fit when I argue. In fact, every argument you're in on this site seems turn into a shitshow, especially at the moment your argument gets exposed, even a little bit.

Sure, Rawb. Thanks for reading MY article and comprehending the title appropriately.

You keep thinking I'm throwing a "hissy fit"... or whatever box you want to compartmentalize me into each time we cross paths. You're the only person I've met that continues to feel so self-important to need to do that.

I'm sure I'm much different than the 8 people you've argued with on the 'net and the mailman, the guy who works behind the counter wherever you buy your video games and your Mom - the three people you argue with in the real world.

Side note - I do believe that Pedro Martinez should go into the Hall of Fame.

I actually have a mailwoman and I've never argued with her. But if I did, I'm sure she wouldn't take everything I said as a personal attack, wouldn't lash out when proven wrong, wouldn't disrespect somebody just because she didn't agree with them.

Then again, she is a postal employee (early/mid 90's humor)

his body of work also isn't complete, but I'd be tough for him to top 250 wins (at most...which would have him pitching until 40 and averaging 10 wins)

That being said, he has a career sub 3 ERA and his postseason numbers are good (he's no schilling...ha). But you might favorably compare him to Koufax in both style and statistics

he also had the weird little person with him during the 2004 run...and that on its own must get a few writer's votes...

Alright, let's save something for another article later... ok?

Because he defends himself on his blog? Because he calls into WEEI? Dennis Eckersley once defended himself on WEEI. He called up and visciously attacked Dick Radatz (RIP) for criticizing his Cy Young Award. "You old bastards have got a lot of nerve!" Great moment in sports radio. But Eck is in the Hall.

I had no problem with your article when it was about baseball. Unfortunately, most of the content of this piece are baseless, obsessive, and inane character attacks. Ask Charlie Komiskey and Ty Cobb if character matters much when it comes to the Hall.

Why must you continue to drivel on and on?

You know, you're also driveling on and on just by responding.

Sweet Irony! And it continues on and on. The circle of needless comments!

I'm making arguments. Good arguments. If that's driveling, then I guess I'm driveling. But I think getting pissed just because people don't say "Yeah, you're right. Golly, you're a sharp one!" and have the gall to say something like "I disagree and here's why..." is more on the drivelly side.

But that's just my opinion.

I'm definitely not pissed - I'm a little dismayed at myself for ever commenting on any of my own articles and letting them stand for what they were instead of sidetracking the topic with banter and wordplay, but I'm good at it, I never run out of material and besides, why change now?

I'm truthfully laughing at you because you seem to think you're accomplishing something important.

Perhaps you should read your comments to yourself sometime?

hey Rawb - "Yeah, you're right. Golly, you're a sharp one!"

But if you want say "I disagree and here's why" to present yet another meaningful argument about the word "drivel", have at it!

HA HA HA HAAAA!!! (that's me LOLing)

I'm definitely seeing a lot of evidence here that you're not getting pissed.

"I DID say he was a good pitcher, numbnuts!"

Calm and collected as usual.

"I'm truthfully laughing at you because you seem to think you're accomplishing something important."

You seem to think you know what I'm thinking.

Give me a D! Give me a R! Give me a I! Give me a V!!! Give me an E!!!! Give me an L, what's that spell? Rawbzeitz!!!

Rawb, definitely for your sake... Please ignore me. You can't win. Me using the word "numbnuts" or Capitals letters online, is NOT a sign of anger, it's a sign of comedy, numbnuts. There's nothing for you to win here. You're not a winner at this game because there's no losers, just victims.

You obviously can't comprehend a person like me being real. But I am this fucking weird and unusual and unique - it would be much more enjoyable for everyone else if you could accept that simple nugget of obviousness. I don't give any flying noun about convincing you how little you mean to me. Honestly, I'm paying more attention to my wife watching "The Biggest Loser ' in the background and thinking how ironic it is I'm responding to your drivel at the same time... You're just trying to play on a level on which you can't exist, brother.

We can keep having it out as long as you want. I would love to "get along" but in case you never noticed, Uncle Manny only plays one game - You get what you give...

And here we are... still... I'll get the minuses, yet you are the cause. So be it.

I thought you didn't care about minuses, Manny...why do you mention something you don't care about so often?

Because I know it bothers you so much...

Can't help yourself from taking the sinker with the line and hook, can you? I would call you a sucker but i have too much respect for the species and they aren't so dumb as to strike every hook thrown into the water.

Now minus me you gimp! Give it to me!!! Let me have it!!! Stick that thumb downward like you know I like it... yeah!!! I'm an electron!!! MINUS ME, MINUS ME and yet even if you don't... I'll say it again - I don't care.

Wasn't this a thread about Curt Schilling and not me? I make a point about Curt Schilling and sportsradio. Your response:

"Why must you continue to drivel on and on?"

Then you talk about what you're watching on TV and how much you don't care about being minused.

Whatever Manny.

I'll say one more thing before I go off to something more important.

If you are quarreling with multiple users just because the latter doesn't agree with your OPINION, then that's worse than your (admittedly true) comment about users b*tching that this site is dead.

Condescending talk and personal attacks to a potential new user do nothing to persuade. So far looking at this entire thread, I've seen you call me dumb, implying FP is a "retard" and argues "jibberish", and Rawb's argument and OPINION on you as "drivel".

FP called you an asshole and I've seen nothing else.

I don't mind you writing articles stating your case. I'm quite sure this community is not really appreciative of any condescending, attack-laden comments from any user.

It's up to you. This is not your place to do whatever you want while the community nods their head to whatever you say a la Oprah's audience. You've been on ArmchairGM longer than most of us. You've done a lot of important things for this site that you know of (so no sense in me telling you).

Respect us and we'll respect you back.

I'm not watching TV, it's on in the same room... "Biggest Loser" - you should look into it, it could help you out. Hey! I just scored a new high score on Solitaire!!!

You made a point about Schilling and sports radio; Ok. "Yeah, you're right. Golly, you're a sharp one!" Hey, here's your "point" - don't spend it all in one place!

Psst! Your "point" is valid - regardless of it's drivel content - at the same place my minuses are... at I Don't Care stores everywhere!

You showed me, SSR.

Do me a favor: 'Favorite' this page and read this thread a month from now and see how you feel.

(Go ahead and minus me now...)

Mookie - in manny's defense, he wasn't suggesting I'm retarded, but rather that he didn't like me using that word (which is perfectly legit. I've kinda changed my whole view about profanity since i've come back and it's partially because of habit, so if anyone else thinks i'm out of line with my language, just tell me in any way you want and I'll be happy to comply provided your request/objection is a reasonable one). Oh and i only called him an asshole because i thought he called me "numbnuts"

I'll see your asshole and your numbnuts and I'll raise you a buffoon, two pighumpers and a twatface - all of which when combined is the equivalent of one Curt Schilling. Zowie! And sense is made of the thread drift once again! (Shit, now this will never end!)

you've made your point manny

THAT is why you are pound-for-pound the best commentor in AGM history!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++ TMIL42!!!