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About the Author

Bravesgirl85
i live, eat and sleep sports. one day i hope to write about it. so i write this blog hoping that one day someone will see my greatness. i'm not to ready to give up because my sports legends never gave up. jackie robinson paved the way. jordan never gave up when they said he was too small. kay yow fought till the end. I'll keep fighting until one day i'm a top notch sports writer for a newspaper or some journal. so when you you read my blogs, you'll get to know a little bit more about me: the fire, the heart, the determination, the wit, the humor, and the depth that lives within me. like i said before, i live, eat and sleep sports. Come get some. :)

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Defining Character in Athletes through Their Talent Level and Likeability

by Bravesgirl85
created May 10, 2009, last edited November 01, 2009
16
Vote

Often times we look at our athletes as being something more than just athletes. It is during those times that we find great joy, but often times we find unseeming and utter disappointment. Once we hold them up as role models, they become bigger than their sport, bigger than God Himself. We start to pray at night: "Dear God, please allow Manny to go 4-4" or "Dear God, please let the Celtics make it pass the Orlando Magic." Our athletes become gods.

And, once they become gods, we forget to see them as who they are: regular people who happen to make a lot of money for playing a GAME. We are willing puppets in their show. We go through all sorts of links to ignore the person and just focus on the athlete. It isn't until they commit the ultimate character flaw that we start to realize the individuals. Sadly, to say, the person rarely comes as close to the awe of the athlete.

In every league, from the NBA to the PGA, we watch our heroes falter as gods to be demoted to regular human beings that falter and stumble as they face everyday vices.

We've seen Michael Jordan admit to a gambling problem. We've seen Michael Vick get sentenced to almost 2 years of hard time for dog fighting. We've seen Tonya Harding bring new definition to the term "slicing the competition." We've seen Roger Clemens get thrown into the steroids era. We've seen Sean Avery become the new bad boy of the NHL. We've seen John Daly pass out drunk in a Hooters.

These athletes were great competitors; I will not deny them that title. What they did on a basketball court, on a football field, on an ice rink, on a golf course or on a pitching mound were indeed magnificent. However, what they did on those playing grounds does not define them. Every action that they make defines them.

J.C. Watts once said, "Character is doing what is right when no one is looking." I've come to learn that this doesn't apply to athletes. In professional sports, character becomes something you pay attention to if the person isn't likeable enough.

Michael Jordan becomes a gambler, and we laud him for it because it makes him more relatable to the everyday person. Alex Rodriguez is using some type of performance enhancing drug and we only worry about whether or not he caused Madonna and Guy Ritchie's marriage to end and him hitting a homer during his first game in forever. These guys are likable enough so what they do doesn't necessarily define who they are. They are seen beyond the scope of their wrongdoings, but not every star athlete gets away with it.

Kobe Bryant goes down for an alleged rape. His alleged victim's story is like a sponge, soaking up everything but never discounting the amount of holes it has. His image is ruined and he loses tons of sponsors.

Barry Bonds becomes the sole face of the steroids era in baseball. He didn't start this horrible era in baseball, but his face outlines everything that is currently bad in baseball. We forget the Mark McGwires and the Sammy Sosas because they are highly likable; they are people that you would still invite over for dinner.

For the guys like Bryant and Bonds, everything isn't always so peachy. They are superstars in a league who are despised. Bryant is imitating Jordan. Therefore, he always has a chip on his shoulder. Bonds is rude to his teammates, specifically Jeff Kent and to reporters. This automatically places him as a bad guy since the media controls who's who in the comic strip of athletes.

All of this brings up two points in professional sports about character:
1) Character isn't defined by what you do in life but by what you do on the playing fields
2) If you're likable enough your flaws are forever ignored.

Our athletes live in a world far beyond the world that we live in. Their wrongdoings can bring them down if they aren't likable enough, but if they have the right smile, we can lift them up to hang out with King Midas. We need to learn to look at an athlete as nothing but an athlete (meaning separate the athlete from the person), because once we make them bigger than any one person they begin to live above the law. Their character no longer is determined by who they are but by what they can do, athletically.

Manny is just Manny, a great baseball player. Nothing more, nothing less.


Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
Davis21wylieMVP
188 days ago
Score 1+-
Wait... A-Rod is likable?
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
188 days ago
Score 1+-
A-rod doesn't even like himself.
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JuTMSY4Legend
188 days ago
Score 0+-
oh, that's not true... http://lh3.g...UN5CsVY/arod[4].jpg
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JuTMSY4Legend
188 days ago
Score 6+-
3368262126_db6cdf1b53.jpg
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
188 days ago
Score 1+-
What about Brett Favre getting praised for having a painkiller addiction?
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Bravesgirl85Waterboy
188 days ago
Score 1+-
yep, you're right. brett favre is likeable. the only person that doesn't like favre is aaron rodgers.
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Davis21wylieMVP
187 days ago
Score 2+-
I would have said Favre was still likable this time last year. But with the unretirement, the split w/ GB, the Jets failure, the comments by teammates, the 2nd retirement, and the Vikings dalliance/2nd unretirement, I think the majority of sports fans are fed up with Favre's act and want him to just go away. His likability quotient has been decimated by his own actions over the past year-plus.
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Sj-hypocycloidAll-American
187 days ago
Score 2+-
Sadly, Davis echoes my thoughts. It's a shame too, because when he retired from the Packers, he was one of those players that pretty much met all of my "fan respect" characteristics. Now, he's kinda made himself look like a selfish, immature tool.
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RomiezzoLegend
187 days ago
Score 2+-
I think for most people, the Favre situation wasn't cared about anymore last year. This year, he is disliked because this is just showing how egotistical he is and his lack of respect for the fans for leading them on several times...
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JuTMSY4Legend
188 days ago
Score 8+-
Kobe Bryant still cheated on his wife...that was reason enough to impeach an American president, but not damage the reputation of an American Basketball player?
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Bravesgirl85Waterboy
188 days ago
Score 0+-
Sorry, there wasn't a Kenneth Starr to make Bryant completely lose his status. Besides, he admitted to cheating on his wife and Bill Clinton sent us on the greatest filibuster the American government has seen in quite some time back then.
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Bravesgirl85Waterboy
188 days ago
Score 0+-
Define (is)
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
187 days ago
Score 1+-
Is is what was was.

Is does as is do.

I think, therefore I is.
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RomiezzoLegend
187 days ago
Score 3+-
This is a good article that touches on a lot of great points on what we, as fans, do when even the slightest thing goes wrong for any celebrity for that matter... never mind athlete. The question is, "Is this right?"

Some people would say that this is wrong because it's not fair on the athletes. They're people too, and they all make mistakes (even if you accidentally sat on Jose Canseco's "set-up" needle, and even if they partied too hard one night, or if you're getting divorced; i.e. Dwyane Wade).

However, there may be another point of view on this. These athletes are people that we, as fans, look up to (or at least have looked up to as kids). They put themselves in this position. They are superstars being paid millions of dollars every year, and if they F up, it's their fault. Just like any other human being, they are responsible and need to be accounted for their actions. Even if it was just once (As Manny Ramirez claims with the PED's), you need to admit that what you did was wrong and that you've put a bad mark on every athlete that has been looked up to as a hero (or at least someone who has made a big change in someone's life).
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RomiezzoLegend
187 days ago
Score 0+-
Sorry, this was the link to D-Wade's article...
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Surly OptimistLittle Leaguer
187 days ago
Score 8+-
How about defining character in athletes by their actual character? God forbid we treat these "humans" (as you call them) like - what's the term I'm looking for here.... oh, yeah; OTHER HUMANS! "Likeability" sounds like a term best used by the tastebudless enjoyers of Bud Light, not to describe earthlings. For instance... I like to hate them all with the sole intent of balancing out people's liking them! Maybe I like A-Rod more than other players because his butt is cuter? Or maybe I have reverse triskadecaphobia and only the number 13 doesn't scare me so I like A-Rod? Maybe I'm an ugly stripper with a negative value self-respect from Toronto? How's that for likeability?
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Surly OptimistLittle Leaguer
187 days ago
Score 2+-
By the way, great article. It peased the senses in an ammonium slat kind of way, waking me up from the stagnent journalism I am so accustomed to paying my half-attention. This sentence made my day indeed... Calling Katie an "it", 100% slick! "His alleged victim's story is like a sponge, soaking up everything but never discounting the amount of holes it has"
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
187 days ago
Score 10+-
How should athletes represent themselves?

20. No entourages. Regular people have friends. Super stars have parasitic leeches swarming for money. These people are no good. And disappear faster than a fart in the breeze when the super star runs out of dough or lands in jail.

19. Be humble in victory. Everybody hates an overly enthusiastic winner belittling the pride and respect of a defeated opponent.

18. Be even more humble in defeat. Don't shake your head in phony Sean Penn agony and sob with at towel over your head on the bench until the cameras stop flashing. And whatever you do, don't get caught eating with the victorious opponent after the game.

17. Deflect the praise. A teammate does well, tell the reporters to go talk to that teammate rather than ask you "how about the play of so and so".

16. Accept the blame. Don't shudder off the responsibility of team leader by letting other lesser lights take the fall. Generals lead armies onto battle. An army wins the war. A general accepts defeat. It is the way of the world. Deal with it.

15. No vacations during the season. Be committed to your team's success. Every cell phone has a camera. Only blame yourself if someone snaps a compromising pic.

14. Especially no vacations during the postseason. Teammates hate media side show distractions during playoffs. If you are fielding media questions about anything other than your next game, you are doing something wrong.

13. Getting busted for PEDs. Everybody hates a lying cheat. Especially that guy busting ass down in the minors as the last team cut.

12. Never discuss your legacy. Nobody cares. Kings and Queens have legacies. So do Presidents and Emperors. You are an athlete. Entertain without the expectation of fans building a pyramid in your honor.

11. Admit your shortcomings. If you want to be treated like everyone else, than you better accept self responsibility. Part of being a member of the human race.

10. If you like the ladies, then don't get married. A true super star begins at home. Betraying your wife and children for all too easy tail is the mark of a weak coward. And the ending is always the same - your ass in divorce court no matter how well written the prenup.

9. Nobody is disrespecting your contract. Ever. You signed an agreement. Live up to it. A super star competes to win. Only a selfish loser places the money above the desire to compete and win. There are no HOF plaques for the highest paid athletes.

8. Remember those that helped make you who you are. Don't ever forget being drafted. Signing that first contract that made you a millionaire. Or hung in there with you when the going got a little tough. All contracts expire. Somebody will always offer more money. But never forget to at least consider granting the home town discount. Just ask Cal Ripken the intangibles of playing in the same town for an entire career. You can just as easily live on $10 million per year and be revered vs $12.5 million per year and be a mercenary.

7. Coaches coach. Managers manage. Players play. Never forget that you neither coach or manage.

6. All careers come to an end. Know when it is your time. And respect the veterans ahead of you. They helped build the league. And you profit from their hard work. Remember, what goes around, comes around. One day, it will be you considered as the old man.

5. Celebrity super stars are not winners. Just ask Bill Parcells. If the media is more interested in your relationships and off the field activities, than you are doing something wrong and at the complete expense of your team. Date who you want to date. But keep in mind it is you that controls the when and the where of the camera bulb flashing.

4. If you have a trademark celebratory shtick, than you are more about marketing yourself than your team's success. No that is not enthusiasm, it is egotism. And it will bite you in the ass one day.

3. If you like to blog, you better be completely honest about your successes and failures. And never criticize your teammates while engaging in your little hobby.

2. Tweeting has no place on the bench. If you have a cell phone anywhere near the field during a practice or game, then you are no super star.

1. A true MVP doesn't worry about winning MVPs. The real MVP is the first player to accept the championship trophy and quickly hand off to the teammate next in line.

Any questions?
Permalink | Reply
Bravesgirl85Waterboy
187 days ago
Score 0+-
Athletes should represent themselves by being themselves. If they're a thug, let them be a thug. If they are a good boy trying to bolster their street cred, then let it be. But the moment they pretend to be something more than who they are is the very moment that they become something they are not: legitimate role models. I don't mind a role model who just happens to be an athlete, but I mind athletes imitating role models.
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False ProphetAll-Star
187 days ago
Score 2+-
Re: 18 & 19

There's a fine line between someone being cocky/enthusiastic in a good/productive/fun way and being a total ass about it. Deion Sanders was an example of someone who liked to show boat and did so in an acceptable way. TO is an example of someone who shows off in a negative way.

I also feel 4 is a bit too much. I like 5 as a caveat to 4 (ie shticks are cool so long as they're not why you're newsworthy).

Other than that i like your list Tyrone
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Sj-hypocycloidAll-American
187 days ago
Score 8+-
This comment could be an article. I'd have voted for it. Sorry I can only give it one plus.
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
187 days ago
Score 2+-
This list should be issued to every player drafted or signed into professional sports. It should be translated into Spanish, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, German, Swedish, Finnish, Russian, and Slovakian.
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Sj-hypocycloidAll-American
187 days ago
Score 7+-
Since the baseball strike (the 1981 strike, not the 1994 one), I have mostly held my sports heroes at arm's length, rarely letting any of them in, for fear of them disappointing me in some way. Sadly, they have rarely let me down on this point, and I really don't give a rat's behind when shit goes down because I never treated them as extra special anyway.


I usually take an instant dislike to the athletes that get endless press from ESPN, Fox, and whatever sports outlet chooses to run endless puff pieces about them.


For my part, I disliked Bonds because he spurned Pittsburgh. I disliked McGwire because he sucked and was a surly dick and then suddenly found his stroke and blemished forever one of the greatest records in baseball. Brought baseball back, my arse. I almost stopped watching baseball in 1998.


Not that anyone should give a rat's ass, but here are some things I do respect about athletes/pro sports:

(1) Playing for the same team your whole career


(2) Not being featured in the daily papers/blogs. Don't make it about you (the player). It's a team game, and the minute you draw added attention to yourself, or deflect it onto somebody else, I take issue with that.


(3) Being somewhat sheepish/embarrased when someone comes calling to ask about your charitable nature. If you tout your charitable nature, you are defying the very essence of charity....IMO.


(4) Playing for small market teams and not taking the payout that awaits you in a larger market. I wonder if Jeff Weaver, Randy Johnson, Jason Giambi, Mike Hampton, Carl Pavano or Kevin Brown have positive memories of their time in pinstripes? I'm not the first to say this, but when a player says "it's not about the money" ... it's about the money.


(5) When a player respects the game enough to know what has gone before. When he remembers/acknowledges that he didn't invent the home run or the touchdown and he's not the first guy to electrify the home crowd. Be cocky - but don't be a tool. No matter what you think, you are not the shit...


(6) Acknowledge the role the fan plays. Even if you know, in your heart of hearts


(a) that the fan is merely a misguided bleating sheep whose sole purpose is to lay out cash so you can live an insanely unimaginably affluent lifestyle


(b) that if a fan says he/she won't pay ticket/jersey/merchandise prices anymore, that another three fans will pick up the slack


Even if you know these two things to be true, acknowledge the fan. They choose to spend their money and time to watch you play this game that they love. This is not something to be trifled with. They could spend that money on anything, and they choose to spend it on your game. Maybe even to watch you play.
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Sj-hypocycloidAll-American
187 days ago
Score 4+-
damn it...that's what I get for rambling: "of their time in pinstripes?" should be "of their time in that larger market?"
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
187 days ago
Score 5+-
I like your "rambling".

A lot.

Nice work SJ.
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RomiezzoLegend
187 days ago
Score 6+-
As do I. You and I definitely agree on a lot of things about respect between an athlete and his/her fans. That is why I like guys like Tony Gwynn... guys who had the opportunity to move to different teams for a lot more money, but stayed loyal to their team and their fans; by the way, the Padres only won the division 3 times in his 20 year career (and won 90+ games three times those three times... the only 3 times the Padres would do that during that time span). He never got more than $6,000,000 in a season, being the Hall of Famer he is. Gwynn is definitely a class act and there are very few like him. I respect guys who respect the game and their fans first, and their job and business of it second.
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Sj-hypocycloidAll-American
187 days ago
Score 3+-
Thank you, TB and Romi. I sometimes feel that I am the ancient mariner rambling about the way things were. And Romi - Gwynn was one of the guys I was thinking of. He seemed to me like he "got it" in terms of comporting himself.


Other guys I think of include (but are not limited to) Cal Ripken, Walter Payton (I thought he was especially noble in his last days) and....see, now this is a problem. I am having a problem thinking of other players at this moment...
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RomiezzoLegend
187 days ago
Score 0+-
Grant Hill is someone I can think of. Great guy, on and off the court. He represents the somberness and humbleness on and off the court.
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Steel TownDraft Pick
185 days ago
Score 1+-
Jerome Bettis took paycut after paycut towards the end of his career in pursuit of a SB trophy.
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
187 days ago
Score 7+-
Mr. Briggs has an awesome list, but he is missing the single most important factor...be yourself.

One bad incident scars you for life, just ask the kids Albert Belle had a problem with one long ago Halloween. The incident makes the papers, one side of the story is presented, and Albert's forever an asshole.

Belle had some incidents before, going back to his LSU days, so maybe he's not the best example, but when you consider the kids involved were throwing eggs at his house and that THEY were the instigators, it puts a different spin on things.

Sometime in the next six, seven years, Randy Johnson and Ken Griffey Jr will both be elected to the Hall of Fame. It is a realistic statement to say both will sign more autographs in the six months leading up to their ceremonies than they did during their entire careers. Saying "no" was an automatic reaction during their respective 20 year careers. Saying no is not an option as a HOFer, on the contrary, it is now a job requirement to sign, to represent the HOF and MLB in whatever endeavor they are requested. Mall opening in East Hicktown. Commencement speaker at Dumbshit U.

Robin Yount may be the shyest HOFer ever, but when his phone rings and the voice on the other end says, "card show, Podunk, USA, next Friday" the option to say no isn't an option.

I've seen Wayne Gretzky stop and sign autographs for a car load of kids at a red light while he was crossing to go to dinner.

I've seen Larry Bird play 52 minutes of an OT game and be so battered and bruised and exhausted he left the lockerroom in a wheelchair, yet he spent 45 minutes with a fifth grade class he had adopted for that game.

I've seen Carlos Beltran walk off the field and stop and sign and the rookie he was walking with not stop, Beltran went into the clubhouse and dragged the kid back out to sign with him.

I've seen Derek Jeter sign for ten minutes before a game and leave to do his stretching and some kid cry hysterically because he didn't get to see him, and Jeter come back later on and give the kid a signed bat.

It doesn't make a shits difference if you're a first ballot HOFer or the last man on the roster. Respect the fans. Respect the game. Respect yourself.

Pretty g**damn simple, huh?
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RomiezzoLegend
187 days ago
Score 3+-
These are some very good examples. And it's true that one thing you do could change the way people can think of you. I remember Randy Johnson snapped at a man from the army... someone heard about this (first hand), posted it in some forum, and it was spread that he's an A-hole. Anyways, you seem like a very informative baseball (sports) fan. Sign up...
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CheezerAll-Star
187 days ago
Score 6+-
Great article and even better comments. A great read for a Monday.
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
187 days ago
Score 5+-
Cheezer, it is all good here. Combine the best thoughts and ideas from everyone into one singular argument and we could put Bill Simmons out to pasture. A huge credit to the author for putting together such as well thought out article that generated these comments in the first place.
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
187 days ago
Score 5+-
Very good topic to write about. This article may have the highest word per comment ratio in recent AGM history.
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
187 days ago
Score 6+-
I think so long as people understand why they like a particular athlete, the way they view that athlete will be clear. For instance, I like Zdeno Chara because he's a big bastard who happens to play for the Bruins. I hated him as an Ottawa Senator, and I'll hate him if he wears a different uniform. But as a Bruin, he helps my favorite team win. His goals are similar to my goals, so his style of play is acceptable to me.


You have to recognize who athletes are, as well. I remember when Johnny Damon left the Red Sox for the Yankees. Many in Boston accused him of being greedy and traitorous, forgetting that he had left Oakland to get more money in Boston. And he's from Kansas, not Massachusetts, so there was going to be no "home town discounts."


Another player I'm starting to like is Byron Bitz, a 4th line forward who went to Cornell at the same time I went to Ithaca College. He could be a total dick in real life. He's not my friend, even though there's sort of that weird connection because I saw him play in college, and we lived in the same bizarre upstate NY town for 4 years. None of these athletes are your friends. They're people with their own sets of goals and dreams.


And I'm always taken aback by how judgmental we as fans can be. We hate cheaters like Bonds and Belichick, yet who among us hasn't taken a peak at a friend's exam, or read Shakespeare on SparkNotes cuz it's 5 AM and you want to sleep instead of do homework? I think the problem is that we put these guys too high. We forget their humanity. Which is part of the fun of sports, we like watching superheroes and gods play games at the highest levels they can be played. But Alex Rodriguez isn't from Krypton, he's from New York.


Wow, I didn't intend this comment to be so long, but once I got going...
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RomiezzoLegend
186 days ago
Score 4+-
I completely agree with this statement... especially the last paragraph. However, I wanted to add more to it.

We, as fans, do act as hypocrites and judge athletes (Bonds, Vick, Clemens... I could go on forever with this list), referees (Tim Donaghy), managers (Ozzie Guillen), coaches (Belichick), agents (Scott Boras), commentators (Buck, McCarver), etc. because they are supposed to be the best of the best (or at least somewhat involved with people who are the best of the best). We put these guys on pedestals because they are supposed to serve as the top notch examples of what their positions are supposed to be. I know what they do is a profession and it's how they pay the bills and everything, but I'm sure we don't want kids in high school taking performance enhancing drugs. We don't want our referees to be gambling while reffing the games they gambled on. We don't want coaches spying on other teams just to look at their plays. We don't want to see commentators bore you so much that you have to mute the TV just to enjoy the game better.

And of course, this relates to us. Parents don't want their kids to cheat off exams (at least the good ones who like to have good morals, as well as their kids). As managers of a company, we don't want to see our employers taking more time off of work than they should, or slacking off or whatever.


What athletes do, and what we find out about them, is related to what we do in everyday life. The only thing is that athletes are celebrities, and they're people that the average Joe would look up to.


What I think this leans towards is the fact that we should appreciate athletes, coaches, etc. who are like what we should presume them to be. We should appreciate the Tony Gwynn's, the Cal Ripken's, the Walter Payton's. We should learn to appreciate the things they did and the character that they showed on and off the field. We will not find many others like the ones mentioned above, and we shouldn't if you think about it, because we're all human. We all make mistakes, every once in a while. We learn to be selfish... it's part of us.

By the way, I've learned to forgive Johnny Damon, as the average person would've done the same thing... and he did the same thing when he went from the A's to the Red Sox; I still don't like him though :P ). I didn't like Manny Ramirez even when he was with the Red Sox. He lit up faces in the locker room, at times, but he's just someone who feels like working to his full potential when he feels like it. There are people who are on the bench and in the minor leagues who dream to be in Manny's position... and he shouldn't take things for granted just because he's that much better than everyone else...
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
186 days ago
Score 4+-
We put them on pedestals because they're the best players, coaches, commentators, or refs, NOT the best people.
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Bravesgirl85Waterboy
186 days ago
Score 4+-
I agree rawbeezeitz. That's why I had Kobe as my #1 on Aisha's Top 10 NBA Things. I didn't look at Kobe as a person(as an alleged rapist) but as an athlete. Every comment on here is top notch.
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
186 days ago
Score 6+-
Well my problem is when athletes are put on pedestals as people because they're good players, and trashed as players because they're bad people. BUT, when somebody does something horrible, like beat their wife (Cordero, Justice), they could hit 1,000 homeruns, or average a triple-double, and they'd deserve nothing but hate because they're despicable, and it no longer matters what they do on the field because what they've done off of it is so egregious and wrong.
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RomiezzoLegend
186 days ago
Score 5+-
That's true, Rawb. We put them on pedestals because they are the best players. However, when it comes to doing something so bad that it destroys the integrity of a sport, someone who was on the pedestal will have his/her page torn out. If it's something bad like, (oh, I don't know) beating or cheating on your wife, smoking marijuana, etc., although that is completely irrelevant to the sport, many will dislike the guy for his actions, but I will respect the athlete for what he does for the game and his team.

It's sad that everyone doesn't think like this. Otherwise, Pete Rose would be in the Hall of Fame. He lost the respect of so many people because of the fact that he gambled against his team and tried to make his team lose. Do we respect him as a person? Of course not; I'm not sure anyone will now. However, I'm sure almost every, single one of us respects him now: for what he has done on the field rather than off the field. Like you said, Rawb... they're put on pedestals as people because they're good players.

BUT, I could probably take a poll of 100 sports fans, and I'd assure you that if I asked each of them who Pete Rose was, the majority would probably say something along the lines of, "He's a baseball player who deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, but isn't due to the fact that he gambled against his team."

A true sports fan, in my opinion, understands what athletes do on the field first... and off the field second. Why do we watch them in the first place? If it's to know who the immoral persons are, then sure... I'll admit that what they do off the field comes first and you're not a true sports fan. But anyone who enjoys watching the sport rather than focusing on the the players, the drama, and following the "inside look" of the players/team knows that they are a true sports fan, and other crap just comes with the territory.
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Davis21wylieMVP
186 days ago
Score 6+-
Exactly, there's a difference between misconduct on a personal level and on a professional level. Players like Cordero, Vick, Brett Myers, Rae Carruth, etc. are despicable for their off-field behavior, but it never seeped into the game itself (unless you count the damage to their team in games missed due to legal actions). Then you have McGwire, Bonds, Clemens, A-Rod, Pete Rose, Joe Jackson, and their ilk -- guys who were not technically convicted of a crime (yet), but whose misbehavior deeply impacted the fabric of the game itself in a tangible, on-field manner. Which is worse? From a human perspective, obviously the first category is worse; they committed crimes against society, while the other guys just monkeyed with the integrity of a game. But from a fan's perspective, that game has to be regarded highly (or else why would we even care?), and as a result a crime against the game is a serious offense. So I don't think either group can be forgiven if you're a sports fan... As human beings we all agree "Category I" players deserve contempt, but as fans we also have to have contempt for "Category II" players because they screwed around with a game we devote a lot of time and energy to follow on the assumption that the rules are not being egregiously broken.
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CheezerAll-Star
186 days ago
Score 5+-
What DDub said.

Both groups are despicable. Athletes are held up as an example of what we can accomplish as human beings. Like run fast or climb a mountain. Win a bike race after defeating cancer, etc. They represent the pinnacle of human physical achievement. To find they cheated cheapens the achievements of not only themselves, but their contemporaries as well. We begin to question all athletic achievement.

To abuse drugs or commit rape or abuse someone shows that they are not despicable athletes, they are contemptible human beings.

Neither group is worthy of any respect or admiration.
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Sj-hypocycloidAll-American
185 days ago
Score 2+-
Sadly...if you categorize pro athletes in these two categories, the list of athletes that we as fans truly regard highly gets kinda small.


I say this keeping in mind the idea that about 80% of the folks playing pro sports are given little to no attention. Really, we're just talking about the cream of the crop here. I mean, am I overstating things to say that the majority of fans only really cares about the top tier names?


Which means that if we acknowledge that 80% of athletes are already outside serious adulation simply by being lesser known (and I realize that this logic does not apply to way hard core fantasy-type fans), then the beginning pool of names we'd concern ourselves with is relatively small.


Would we get so upset if Eric Bruntlett or Henry Blanco tested positive for PEDs? Maybe. I think it would be more like we'd acknowledge this revelation, and then check the scores. The degree to which we care is amped up when the name is of more overall prominence.


Now that I've written this, I am wondering if I have made any sense...Basically, I am trying to say that there actually is a relatively small number of athlete names that would get us up in arms if they disappointed us. And because of this rarity...we get more worked up about it.


But that's the real rub, isn't it? Who would care about baseball without Manny, Albert, Jr., Chase, A-Rod, Vick, Brett, Ryan, Johan, Kobe, Vlad, et al involved? And I can kind of (half assedly) emphasize my point by pointing out that readers of this 'comment' know who I mean even though I used only one name to describe players I consider to be 'elite'
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CheezerAll-Star
185 days ago
Score 1+-
"Who would care about baseball without Manny, Albert, Jr., Chase, A-Rod, Vick, Brett, Ryan, Johan, Kobe, Vlad, et al involved? "

I would. If the big names that were unworthy of our respect and admiration were banned from the sport for their "crimes" the game would go on. The playing field would be more level. The game would still be entertaining and people would watch.
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Sj-hypocycloidAll-American
185 days ago
Score 1+-
I would still watch as well. I apologize...I was generalizing about fans who get their sports info from ESPN, Fox or sports radio without adding their own thoughts/perspectives into the mix.
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