armchairgm
all sports, all you
+ Add Friends
You are not logged-in.
Sign Up - Log In
Main Page
Sports
Write
Articles
Hot Links
Images
Meet People
Fun
Explore
MLB - NFL - NBA - NHL - College Basketball - College Football - Soccer - Nascar - Other
Article - Locker Room Discussion
All Articles - New Articles - Today's Articles
Submit a Link - Approve Links
Picture Game - Ratings - Polls - Pick Game - Quiz Game - Spring Silliness
Random Page - Random Image - Random Fan

About the Author

TheSportsApple

More By TheSportsApple

Best Baseball Players by Uniform Number: 26-50
23 votes, 18 comments
Best Baseball Players by Uniform Number 0-25
35 votes, 51 comments
Shea Stadium Memories & Review
10 votes, 3 comments
View All

Other recent contributors

Make this page better by editing it.

Other recent voters

If you like the article, vote for it.
Edit
Page history Discuss pageWhat links here

Cal Ripken Jr...is Overrated

by TheSportsApple
created March 14, 2008, last edited May 14, 2009
28
Vote

As a baseball fan, this is not easy to say. Purists may disagree but it is time that the truth comes forward: Cal Ripken Jr. is overrated.

Die hard baseball fans, especially Oriole fans or Marylanders’, may want to have me hung in the town square for uttering those words. As a former resident of the state, trust me when I say that Jesus Christ is less of a hero in Maryland than Cal.

Before I precede any further, let me state that Cal Ripken is a first ballot Hall of Famer, a baseball icon, and a great ambassador to the game. He has won MVP awards, World Series rings, and set numerous records in a remarkable career that ultimately earned him a spot in Cooperstown last year.

With
that said, you may be saying, "Well his career resume sounds good so why is he overrated?" A baseball player can be good, great, or legendary and still be overrated. Overrated is all a matter of perception. That's Cal's problem. Some baseball fans (mostly casual fans) even hold him in the same breath as Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, and Babe Ruth. Let's be realistic. Cal was very good, but not one of the best ever to play. He wasn't even the best to play his position.

This idea is summed up in this example. There has never been a player to be on the Hall of Fame ballot for the first time and get voted in unanimously. That changed when Cal received 98.53% percent of the votes in 2007. You mean to tell me it was clearer to put Cal Ripken Jr. in the Hall of Fame then it was to put any other player ever?

Cal Ripken Jr. is often celebrated as the greatest shortstop all of time. That is incorrect as that title truly belongs to Honus Wagner. The Flying Dutchman's offensive stats blow away every shortstop in history, and he also was a superior defensive shortstop compared to Cal.

Wagner's offensive career stats look like this:

AVG:.329
G: 2787
AB: 10427
R: 1740
H: 3430
HR: 101
RBI: Not official stat
SB: 722
SLG: .469

Ripken's offensive career stats look like this:

AVG: .276
G: 3001
AB: 11551
R: 1647
HR: 431
RBI: 1695
SB: 36
SLG: .447

While Wagner's home runs represent career totals usually reserved for backup [1] second basemen, note that Wagner played his 9 years in Exposition Field in Pittsburgh. The field’s dimensions were 400 left field, 450 center, 400 right field. He then played his final 8 seasons in Forbes Field were the dimensions were 360-L, 422-C, and 376-R.

Wagner's career highlights include hitting .344 in his rookie season of 1897 with Louisville, the first of 17 consecutive seasons of hitting over .300, including eight as the National League batting champion. Wagner compiled a lifetime average of .329, and also stole 722 bases, while leading the league in thefts on five occasions.

During Ripken's career, he hit .300 only three times out of his 18 qualifying seasons, his OPS was only .787 (Barry Bonds had seasons in which his slugging alone was higher, but he was an outfielder, so, oh no, they can’t be compared), he never had a season with 50 doubles, and let’s not forget that he is the all-time leader for hitting into double plays (350).

Like I said, Cal isn't the best shortstop to ever lace up the cleats. But you could argue that they played in different eras. You are correct. However, in his era Wagner dominated more than Ripken did in his era. Plus, Wagner was known for his enormous hands and wrists, and at 5-11, 200 pounds, he was really the first big shortstop, not Cal Ripken or Ernie Banks. Don't you think he would be hitting 40 home runs if he played today?

Don't get me wrong; Cal was a fantastic baseball player. He went to 19 straight All-Star games, 2 time All-Star game MVP, AL Rookie of the Year, 2 time gold glove winner, and 2 time AL MVP. But let's not forget that Wagner's career went from 1897-1917, long before the invention of all of these awards.

To show how overlooked Wagner is, theday.com has Wagner listed as the 18th best shortstop ever? Are you kidding me Mike DiMauro? That article is perhaps the worst sports list I've ever seen. Fan's that voted for MLB's all century team in 1999 left Honus Wagner completely off the team. He had to be added by the "panel of experts."

Cal Ripken can be listed as overrated for 3 more reasons. The Streak, great ambassador to the game, and revolutionizing the shortstop position.

Consecutive Games played streak (2,632): This is perhaps the most ridiculous sports record. He is celebrated because he showed up to work for 2,632 times in a row? Maybe if he had a hit in 2,632 games in a row but just showing while getting paid millions to do so? While it's special, it's certainly shouldn't be one of the main reasons he is a Hall of Famer because it doesn't say anything about his skill as a baseball player. Still, fans voted the Streak as baseball's most memorable moment ever. I understand that some people think that the Streak helped saved baseball after the strike in 1994. Let's be honest, the steroid era and home run chase of 1998 did more for the game.

Cal was well liked: Everyone knows the stories of Cal staying at the ballpark till the wee hours of the morning to sign ever last autograph. This made him one of the most beloved players in the game. Not to mention he played for his father, he was teammates with his brother, he gave to charity, and he helped children learn baseball in his spare time. Also, in the days of players playing for 5 teams in a career he played his entire career for the Orioles. These reasons made him beloved, but should beloved make you an all time legend?

Cal reinvented how shortstops looked and played: At 6'4", Ripken is often credited with pioneering the way for larger and taller shortstops. Wagner was truly the first large shortstop. Ripken gets credit because of the media era he played in and because of the amounts of home runs he hit. Ernie Banks was 6'1", 180 lbs a generation earlier and is arguably a better fielder than Ripken.

Being a shortstop should not be an excuse for the fact that his stats are overall very generic for the Hall of Fame. If you’re going to give him bonus credit for home runs, you have to take credit away for never stealing any bases, not walking very often, and having only three 100-run seasons.

Should Ripken be in the Hall of Fame? Yes. Is he the greatest shortstop ever? No. Has he been overrated all of these years? Absolutely

From: TheSportsApple

Thanks to: Baseball Hall of Fame and Baseball Reference for help with the statistics


Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
BigPPupMajor Leaguer
625 days ago
Score 5+-
This is an interesting argument that I hear all the time in this area. Cal was a hell of a great player, but more often than not it is the streak he is remembered for. And there are a lot of positives and negatives.
Permalink | Reply
AfraidofedhochuliDraft Pick
625 days ago
Score 3+-
i love the piece, but you are gonna get killed! I completely agree though.
Permalink | Reply
Sj-hypocycloidAll-American
625 days ago
Score 3+-
You make a solid argument. A lot of times, memories are short. I think Cal was among the best players of his time, and that's a pretty good legacy to have.
Permalink | Reply
TheSportsAppleAll-American
625 days ago
Score 3+-
I know I will. I went to college in Maryland and this opinion of mine was not a very popular one! side note, I saw Cal in a sporting goods shop once about 3 years ago and he really is a huge guy for a baseball player.
Permalink | Reply
BigPPupMajor Leaguer
625 days ago
Score 3+-
He is a big big guy, and they love him in the Maryland/DC area so you cant say much bad about him. My issue with Cal is he should be remembered for what he did that was great, the play on the field the surehanded glove that stuff. Not the he had a big streak and saved baseball stuff.
Permalink
TheSportsAppleAll-American
625 days ago
Score 4+-
completely agree. Actually the one area where I think no one gives him credit is his ability to position himself to make an easier defensive play in the field thus eliminating the need to dive in the hole or make a Jeter type stab and jump throw. He had an amazing baseball IQ
Permalink
Cougar2000All-American
625 days ago
Score 3+-
Cal Ripken overated? PLEASE! Ripken redefined the position of shortstop in his time, which paved the way for A-Rod, et al. Granted, he is a big guy but he is the one thing that Barry Bonds is not and that's accessable to not only the media but the fans.
Permalink | Reply
TheSportsAppleAll-American
625 days ago
Score 4+-
cougar, i respect your opinion but i disagree. check out my paragraph about him NOT being the one to pioneer size at the shortstop position. So because he was accessible to the media that makes him a great player. In the words of Denny Green "If you want to crown his ass..."
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
625 days ago
Score 1+-
"Wagner was truly the first large shortstop" Honus Wagner was 5'11"
Permalink
TheSportsAppleAll-American
624 days ago
Score 1+-
5'11, 200lbs back in 1897 is alot like 6'4 these days. Compare Wagner to other Hall of Fame SS of his ERa: Hughie Jennings 165lbs, Dave Bancroft 160lbs, Rabbit Maranville 5'5 155lbs, Joe Tinker 5'8 175lbs, Bobby Wallace 5'8 170lbs.
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
625 days ago
Score 3+-
Cal Ripken is definitely overrated.... for baseball commentary.
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
625 days ago
Score 3+-
By your logic regarding eras we can clearly state that Ty Cobb was the greatest hitter ever...correct?
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
625 days ago
Score 3+-
career average was .366 and he only better sub-.300 once...1905, his first year in the league, as a part-timer...

his other lowest total was .316...

oh and his OBP was .433...



for his career
Permalink
TheSportsAppleAll-American
625 days ago
Score 3+-
No but I see your point. Other players in the early part of the twentieth century had gaudy stats like Cobb. I think we all will put Williams as te best or in our top 2 hitters of all time. Sometimes stats don't tell the complete truth and I can't say if Cobb was the greatest because I've never seen tape of him. It is very difficult to compare players of different eras for a variety of reasons of which you probably know and I won't list. Ripken does have the most hr's by a shortstop but I think that him playing everyday through his injuries in fact made some of his numbers go down like avg but increased some like hrs.taht being said ripken is an all time great. i'm not denying that. That wasn't even the point of my article. I just think that Wagner needs to be mentioned because I feel that everyone automatically assumes Ripken is the best SS of all time
Permalink
JuTMSY4Legend
625 days ago
Score 2+-
Plus, cal his 431 homers...which i think is the most by an SS
Permalink | Reply
FrugolfVarsity Captain
625 days ago
Score 5+-
The only thing I disagree with is that purists hold him in the same regard as Mays, Mantle,etc.I have always respected Ripken for his work ethic, and solid play.That having been said he has never ranked with Aaron,Mays, Mantle,Ted Williams, etc.in my book.He was and still is however a class guy that helped carry the games popularity during a down time.
Permalink | Reply
Cornfed78Draft Pick
625 days ago
Score 0+-
Blasphemy...'nuff said.
Permalink | Reply
BarkingclamVarsity
625 days ago
Score 2+-
See, I disagree with this from a stats point of view: average means nothing to me since it doesn't count walks, balks, etc, while stats like stolen bases or RBI are inaccurate (why penalize either player for taking needless risks on the bases or for their teammates lack of getting on base). Wagner was a fine, fine shortstop, but if I had to choose the best SS ever, A-Rod would be right up there, as would Dave Concepción, Ozzie Smith and maybe Pee Wee Reese.
Permalink | Reply
TheSportsAppleAll-American
625 days ago
Score 3+-
I agree with you that stats sometimes dont tell the whole story but how could you automatically dispell Honus Wagner? Have you ever seen him play?
Permalink
BarkingclamVarsity
625 days ago
Score 2+-
Considering he died in 1955, no I haven't seen him play. But to automatically hand him the title of "Greatest Shortstop Ever" without looking at all the facts is factitious at best.
Permalink
RomiezzoLegend
625 days ago
Score 4+-
Interesting articles, SportsApple. I have to agree with you that Cal Jr. is at least a little overrated. However, collecting 3000 hits isn't easy, and having the ability to play that many games is simply amazing. You have no idea how much each game takes its toll on you unless you've played 162 games for about 15 straight years.
Permalink | Reply
Niteowl049AAA-er
625 days ago
Score 3+-
Well written thought provoking article...Can anyone imagine Barry Bonds signing autographs till every autograph has been signed? I can see your point on some of the stats especially him stealing a total of four bases in his last nine seasons and slugging over .500 only twice in his last 17 years.
Permalink | Reply
Niteowl049AAA-er
625 days ago
Score 5+-
Anyone that would pick Wagner the No.18 shortstop in baseball history has never looked at the record book.
Permalink | Reply
RomiezzoLegend
625 days ago
Score 1+-
I'd say he should be in the top 3 at LEAST, or else you don't follow baseball as much as everybody else.
Permalink
WizardmanRed-Shirting
625 days ago
Score 4+-
To show how overlooked Wagner is, theday.com has Wagner listed as the 18th best shortstop ever? Are you kidding me Mike DiMauro? That article is perhaps the worst sports list I've ever seen. 100% agree. I mean, it has Steve Jeltz as better than Ripken. Who?
Permalink | Reply
WizardmanRed-Shirting
625 days ago
Score 2+-
Should be quotes around the first three lines, of course. ""
Permalink
Sj-hypocycloidAll-American
625 days ago
Score 2+-
I can't believe anyone remembers Steve Jeltz. What's next? A list of the great third basemen with Rick Schu above Brooks Robinson? Phils fans might remember Schu...
Permalink
Niteowl049AAA-er
625 days ago
Score 2+-
The immortal Steve Jeltz had a career average of .210 and belted out 5 homers and drove in 130 runs in 8 major league seasons. Jeltz in his last season with the Royals hit .155, had an OBP of .200 and slugged .268 for an OPS of .394.
Permalink | Reply
Niteowl049AAA-er
625 days ago
Score 0+-
In 9 seasons Schu hit 41 home runs and drove in 134 runs. A-Rod did that in one season last year and even better.
Permalink | Reply
RollingWaveSoccer Kid
625 days ago
Score 2+-
it's hard to be seriously overrated when your a first ballot hall of famer ;)

I think most of us agree that as a offesnive force Cal was overrated if you think of him as more then very good for a VERY long time. but his greatness embodies more then what he actually did with the lumber and glove.

It's kidna like Gehrig. more people remember him for that final emotional speech than the fact that he's easily the best hitting 1st basebman by a HUGE margin.
Permalink | Reply
The oldest manVarsity
624 days ago
Score 2+-
the stats don't lie and he is right to a large degree. Cal Jr. is overated in comparison to other shortstops even besides Wagner. But it must also be noted that what Cal brought to the game besides what he carried onto the field really comes into play when today's fans rate any of the newer ballplayers. Cal will be remembered as a great sportsman, iron man, family man and one of the nicest players to play in the major leagues. As you all know I was around some of the greatest ball players of all time and even if his stats don't hold up with some of the other before him and during his career what he did for the game does have a lot to do with the game returning to some of it's greatness after what has happened over these last 10 years. I can not honestly agree with anyone that he was the greatest because Honus was unbelieveable as a player and individual. Nobody worked any harder and was played at the level he played at for all his years in the major leagues particularly under the conditions he had to play all.
Permalink | Reply
Niteowl049AAA-er
624 days ago
Score 3+-
I am glad we have had players like Cal Ripken Jr. who had a great career on the field but also played the game the way it was meant to be played with no performance enhancers..only hard work and durability. Players like Ripken make up for players like Bonds who have little to do with the fans.
Permalink | Reply
RomiezzoLegend
624 days ago
Score 0+-
Well, it's a shame that Ripken wasn't playing AFTER we found out that Bonds took performance enhancers. It's ironic that both Cal Ripken and another great ballplayer and person Tony Gwynn, retired the same year when Bonds hit 73. Then, things just got worse from there.
Permalink
Anonymous Fanatic #1
624 days ago
Score 1+-
That article at theday.com is ridiculous. It says its in no particular order, but it has guys like Julio Lugo, Felipe Lopez and John McDonald above Ripken. Yes, it is annoying sometimes when people speak so greatly of him. He's overrated, but still one of the best shortstops ever.
Permalink | Reply
99yankeesWaterboy
624 days ago
Score 1+-
dammit, i always forget to sign in...
Permalink
99yankeesWaterboy
624 days ago
Score 0+-
That article at theday.com is ridiculous. It says its in no particular order, but it has guys like Julio Lugo, Felipe Lopez and John McDonald above Ripken. Yes, it is annoying sometimes when people speak so greatly of him. He's overrated, but still one of the best shortstops ever.
Permalink | Reply
RomiezzoLegend
624 days ago
Score 1+-
Overrated or not, he's a role model of how all baseball players should act today. I wish he came back to the MLB as a coach, or manager, or something. That'd be great.
Permalink | Reply
Anonymous Fanatic #2
593 days ago
Score 0+-
Looking back in baseball history, I would pick two players that I would start my team with. Ripken and one of the truly greatest athletes ever, Mickey Mantle.What Ripken did in his career is just unbelievable-to play shrotstop day in and day out at the level of play that he did is amazing. A cerebral shortstop who had the surest hands and one of the most accurate arms in the game and average 90 RBI's every year-and showe up for work every day! Anyone who disagrees doesn't truly understand the game of baseball, in my opinion. I played a lot of softball for many years and shortstop was my position and I know how hard it was for me to do that. It just makes me appreciate Cal all the more.
Permalink | Reply
Anonymous Fanatic #3
576 days ago
Score 0+-
As far as the streak being "Baseball's most Memorable Moment," I will agree that it is a very bold statement... however, I disagree in that I think it is much more memorable than the home run chase of 1998. I think this is because of his character and charisma... we all wanted it so bad for him. I was just a young kid at the time, but I remember watching it on TV and thinking how amazing it was... the lap around the field giving almost everyone in the first row high fives, the banner being dropped down beyond right field to signify breaking the record, the fact that he played an awesome game!! it was the kind of record breaking performance that had you thinking about it for the next month and also thinking, "geez, there really is hope for humanity!" (ok, maybe i'm going overboard) but a true statement of professional character!! That night, he became one of my childhood heroes, and to this day, that is my most memorable baseball moment. Not to mention it's a record that I would be willing to bet big money will never be broken, of course they probably said that about Lou too... And then there was the home run chase of 1998, where everyone said, "wooo he did it!" and then followed with... "ok, so who's next" and now that record's been broken a "forgettable" amount of times. Who won the race in 98 anyway? Just kidding!
Permalink | Reply
Add your Comment
ArmchairGM welcomes all comments. If you don't want to be anonymous, Register or Login. It's free
Categories: Opinions | Opinions by User TheSportsApple | March 14, 2008 | March 2008 | MLB Opinions | Cal Ripken Jr Opinions | Honus Wagner Opinions | Baltimore Orioles Opinions

Don't Miss

Phillies World Series 2009: A Year Later, and They Still Don't Want Us
Sorry, But I'm Not Sorry
2009 NHL Preview
In Which Ricketts Wins World Series
2009 Week 3: Let’s Talk About Your Favorite NFL Team

In the News

Hey ArmchairGM users! Want to help the admins update this news section? Click here to help us out.

Play the Quiz Game

Who is tied with Sammy Sosa for most Career 3 HR Games?

New Articles

How Can Fred McGriff Not Be Elected to the Hall of Fame?
Best African-American Quarterback Ever?
Ken Caminiti: National League's 1996 MVP
Winter Olympics 2010
Highlights from Dubai 7's

Retrieved from "http://armchairgm.wikia.com/Article:Cal_Ripken_Jr...is_Overrated"

This page was last modified 20:30, 14 March 2008. Content is available under the GFDL.

Main Page About Special Pages Help Terms of Use Advertise