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SSreporters
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Brady is Getting Too Much Credit for Patriots Success

by SSreporters
created January 03, 2008, last edited February 10, 2009
26
Vote


If you remember the last article I wrote about Tom Brady overrated, I got chewed up. So let's start the new year....by doing it again!

A 16-0 record, a great accomplishment for the New England Patriots, but the sports media is highlighting select people. That would be Tom Brady, Randy Moss, and Wes Welker. We figure that Welker's career will blossom as the years go by, Moss is back to his great form, Brady is having a year to remember......but why in the world is Tom Brady all of a sudden the greatest QB of all time? Yes, he has thrown 50 touchdown passes, yes, he has thrown for nearly 5,000 yards, but he never had those numbers with receivers like David Givens and Troy Brown. Now you have this dream team type of receiving corp, you break all of these records, what does that say about the quality of play from the wide receiver? Now you may be wondering, "SS, the QB has to make the throw", well yes, but the receivers have to run great routes and catch the ball!

That's one thing out of the way. The next part is that offensive line. When Brady is at his best, he has got weeks to throw in the pocket. He doesn't need to roll out of the pocket at all. That gives him time to find the big play down the field. When the offensive line does not perform, Brady is immobile, you can hassle him, you can frustrate him, he is not the cool and calm guy like you think he is. Don't get me wrong, Brady is a tremendous QB, hall of fame worthy, but when things don't go right, he, as well as the rest of the Patriots squad, seems to lose their cool a little bit.

From the wide receiver stand point, he ends up giving the QB tremendous numbers because HE is doing most of the work. All of the stats coming from the QB are flawed. Take passing yards for example, suppose a QB like Chad Pennington throws a quick slant to Chris Baker initially for 3 yards, Baker breaks tackles, gets a 56 yard touchdown reception, why should the other 53 be credited to the QB? Baker did the running, not Pennington. The quarterback rating is confusing as hell, I won't get into that.

A QB is no good without receivers and some blocking, so before we start anointing Brady as possibly the greatest player ever in the NFL, take into consideration the receivers he has, and the blocking he gets, those are the men that should be getting a lot more credit than they have received.

Now go out there and rip me a new asshole. I bet you you're not going to agree with me.


Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
Falcon02520Legend
697 days ago
Score 5+-
You're right... Brady is overrated... I mean seriously, how does 50 touchdowns help a team win? I mean, its not like the quarterback is the most important position on the field...
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SSreportersLegend
697 days ago
Score 1+-
It's not like the receivers are suppose to catch the ball to help him get 50 touchdowns so..
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Falcon02520Legend
697 days ago
Score 4+-
Brady was already a top QB when he had Jabar Gaffney as his top wide-out...
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SSreportersLegend
697 days ago
Score 0+-
But he has three more star receivers, and look at his numbers.
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SSreportersLegend
697 days ago
Score 2+-
And in the process, got rid of this guy: RecheSurprised.jpg
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Steel TownDraft Pick
697 days ago
Score 5+-
"its not like the quarterback is the most important position on the field..." I know the Ravens always credit Trent Dilfer with their Superbowl Victory.
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Falcon02520Legend
697 days ago
Score 1+-
I didn't know that defense was one whole position... I am unaware that there are 11 players on defense, so can't really go there...
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Steel TownDraft Pick
697 days ago
Score 1+-
Yeah, your right Falc. I was just showing how the QB though it is the most important position on the field, it doesn't always have the biggest impact.
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Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
697 days ago
Score 0+-
I agree, if Brady played for the Dolphins, he'd be rubbish.
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KrafticusSoccer Kid
697 days ago
Score 1+-
I want to make 2 points. 1) The Patriots offensive line has been specatular this season, and you are correct; without them, Brady and co. would not do so well. On the other hand, Brady has great vision at QB, and can read defenses VERY well. Yes, the WR get open. Yes, they run the routes as designed. But when all is said and done, the QB is the one that has to find the best option to get the most yards.

I too have always wondered by the QB yets the YAC tacked onto passing yards... but I guess they needed to place them somewhere.

Is Brady the best ever.. probably not, but I wouldn't want anyone else running that offense.
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SSreportersLegend
697 days ago
Score 1+-
Come on, wouldn't YOU want someone like Ryan Leaf on your team?
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Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
697 days ago
Score 0+-
I'd take Manning over Brady, any day.
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Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
697 days ago
Score 0+-
Peyton, that is.
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SSreportersLegend
697 days ago
Score 4+-
Eh....Brady works with less than average receivers better.
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Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
697 days ago
Score 0+-
Maybe so, but as a passer, I rate him higher. I think Peyton in Brady's shoes and he'd have more passing TDs than Brady.
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Steel TownDraft Pick
697 days ago
Score 4+-
I'd still take Brady over Manning. Brady is a proven winner and he doesn't whine or throw his teammates under a bus like Manning has in the past.
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KrafticusSoccer Kid
697 days ago
Score 6+-
I think the big thing for me... Brady is the ultimate TEAM guy. Peyton was all about the records, the accomplishments, and the endorsements. it is the little things. Ever noticed that he doesn't even wear that silly little "C"aptain patch on his jersey! Outside of that, I think if they switched teams, everything else being constant, they would still both be great QB's
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CheezerAll-Star
697 days ago
Score 1+-
The use of the "C" is a team decision, not the player.
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
697 days ago
Score 3+-
Just a sidenote: using C's on jerseys to denote Captaincy should be banned from all professional sports except, of course, hockey.
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Steel TownDraft Pick
697 days ago
Score 0+-
Yeah, hockey is the only sport where the C actually means something.
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Steel TownDraft Pick
697 days ago
Score 0+-
The two highest scoring offenses in history have one thing in common: Randy Moss. Moss made us all think Randall Cunningham had found a fountain of youth. Now Moss has so many claiming Brady is the best QB ever.
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Davis21wylieMVP
697 days ago
Score 9+-
And look what he did for Andrew Walter and Aaron Brooks last year!


Oh...
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SSreportersLegend
697 days ago
Score 1+-
A hundred plusses to you.
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SSreportersLegend
697 days ago
Score 2+-
It doesn't help when you don't get the ball thrown your way (let alone get the ball thrown to any receiver...at all).
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SSreportersLegend
697 days ago
Score 2+-
Besides, Andrew Walter was busy getting sacked, and Aaron Brooks throws the ball backwards.
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SSreportersLegend
697 days ago
Score 3+-
Perhaps I should change it to "Any QB that is borderline competent is good with receivers and blocking". :)
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Steel TownDraft Pick
697 days ago
Score 1+-
Your right D21W. Moss didn't help Brady at all. Brady is the one catching the ball in triple coverage. Cause we all know great QBs always throw into triple coverage.
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SSreportersLegend
697 days ago
Score 3+-
Pats fans like to buy into their own bull when it comes to Brady.
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Davis21wylieMVP
697 days ago
Score 6+-
I mean, I love Moss; his record-breaking TD is my current avatar. But it's selling Brady short to say that Moss "made" him this year. Moss was targeted 159 times this year and made a catch 62% of the time for 9.3 YPA... In 2006, it was 97 targets, 43% caught, 5.7 YPA; in 2005, 124 targets, 48% caught, 8.1 YPA; in 2004 (when Culpepper had his huge year), it was 86 targets, 57% caught, 8.9 YPA. Now, Moss had some huge years before that which were on par with 2007, but 2004-06 shows that you can't just plug Moss in with nobodies and expect to lead the league in scoring. Oakland was throwing to Moss plenty, he just wasn't open (and/or wasn't catching it)... Brady and the rest of the Patriots helped Moss as much as he helped them.
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CheezerAll-Star
697 days ago
Score 0+-
Stats courtesy of....?
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Steel TownDraft Pick
697 days ago
Score 4+-
Moss didn't make Brady, but he did make Brady better. He gives Brady his first legitimate downfield threat in years if not ever. Moss occupies several defenders on every play. This is why he makes an impact on EVERY play which includes the plays that don't come to him. Moss reduces the pass rush, the run D, and the coverage on the way-overated Wes Welker. Personally I think Moss is more resposible for Welker's stats than Brady's. Basically what I am saying is: When asked what put the Patriots over the Top, I think it's Moss.
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Davis21wylieMVP
696 days ago
Score 3+-
Yeah, I can't argue with that. My point was that they both made each other better than they had ever been when they were apart. Moss is the best WR Brady has ever played with, but likewise, Brady is the best QB Moss has ever played with. It's a match made in heaven. Oh, and the stats are from Football Outsiders (which ought to be "appointment reading" for every football fan).
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CheezerAll-Star
696 days ago
Score 1+-
FO is the only place I've seen catch percentage so I had a good idea where you got your info from, but I figured everyone else should know as well.
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MsbcourtJV Squad
695 days ago
Score 1+-
Boo! Randall Cunningham was an awesome QB. As a starter and backup! Template:RandallCunningham
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Davis21wylieMVP
695 days ago
Score 1+-
QB Eagles This user is a Randall Cunningham fan.
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KelsdadAll-Star
695 days ago
Score 1+-
His brother wasn't bad either
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Steel TownDraft Pick
697 days ago
Score 2+-
I know Brady is GREAT D21W. I'm not questioning that. Like I said, he is a proven winner. But I credit Moss moreso than Brady with this seasons remarkable record.
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
697 days ago
Score 13+-
Is this the first time a quarterback has been given more credit than his supporting cast for a team's success? I just look at what happened on 11/23/84. Doug Flutie throws a bomb downfield that could land anywhere, and be caught by anybody in the closing seconds against Miami. Gerard Phalen makes an amazing catch to win the game, but what do the announcer's say? "He did it, he did it, Flutie did it!"

Personally, I feel as though the QB position is more important than the WR position in terms of winning football games. Would the Patriots be 16-0 without Moss? No. Would they still be a great team without him? Yes. Would they still be a great team without Brady? Probably not.

And before this year, Wes Welker was not a great receiver. I always felt like he was a solid slot receiver, but his career numbers for receptions and yards have more than DOUBLED since becoming a Patriot.

And it isn't as if Brady came out of nowhere this season. Statistically, he's always been a good QB, with a rating perennially in the 83 to 93 range. This year's ridiculous numbers are thanks in large part to the receivers and linemen, but Brady and the Pats have won 3 Super Bowls, and had a 21 game winning streak, all before Moss came.

The answer to the question: Brady or Moss should be answered with Brady AND Moss AND 53 other guys AND a great coach AND a phenomenal front office AND an amazing owner. That's how you win 16 games.

I think Brady deserves credit for the 16-0 season, but not all of it, and certainly not most of it. But I do think he deserves a little more credit than Moss, just a little.
Permalink | Reply
Davis21wylieMVP
697 days ago
Score 1+-
Great post, Rawb. Personally, I don't think the O-line ever gets enough credit, so I'd say both Brady and Moss are technically getting more praise than they deserve when compared to the big guys doing the dirty work in the trenches. But between the two, Brady has to be more valuable because he's making the throws not only to Moss but to a half-dozen other guys, in addition to reading coverages and being a coach on the field. Moss stretches defenses and opens up space underneath, and I'd say he does the majority of the work when Brady throws to him (especially when Brady throws a jump ball into double coverage and Moss makes a superhuman catch), but only 159 of Brady's 578 attempts were in Moss' direction, and he completed a higher % (albeit for fewer YPA) on those passes not thrown to Moss.
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
697 days ago
Score 3+-
At the same time, D21, just because the ball isn't thrown in Moss's direction doesn't mean he didn't have an impact on the play. Maroney's second rushing TD in the Giants game was made easier because the safety was helping to double cover Moss, giving Maroney the entire left tackle to run through. And we've seen Moss actually blocking downfield this season.
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Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
696 days ago
Score 1+-
You made the point I was going to make, Rawb, that Brady has won 3 Super Bowls without Moss, Welker, or Stallworth. So it's not like he's some scrub who's been made great by having great weapons his whole career (coughPeytonManningcough). But you're right, it's all 53 players that make a 16-0 team.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
697 days ago
Score 3+-
Everybody knows why the Patriots are so awesome but no one wants to admit it. The Patriots are the awesomest because...

send 29.95 elephants to [mannystiles@aol.com To this jackass] and you can get the rest of the comment!

Just kidding... it's because the Patriots have the BEST fans in all of sports and they totally DESERVE this!!! They've earned the right to be mired in myopia! Go Red Sox! Go Patriots! Go Celtics! Go read Bill Simmons some more!!!

blah blah bl-aaaaahhhhhhhh!!!
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
697 days ago
Score 2+-
Exactly!
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
694 days ago
Score -1+-
lets get it straight the packers have the best fans not the pats and if we go to new england there will be plenty green & gold in the stands as well as any other stadium believe that!!!
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LASportsblogAAA-er
697 days ago
Score 4+-
And this, Boston Fans, is your blood pressure rasing article of the week!
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JuTMSY4Legend
697 days ago
Score 2+-
wait...I'm confused

I can understand waffling about Brady being the best ever...he neither has the most career championships or career statistical achievements...

Then again, he's not retired...

Marino had the marks and OJ McDuffie...and no rings...

Bradshaw had Swan, stallworth, Harris, a dominant D and 4 rings

Brady is somewhere in between at the moment and assuming he continues on a similar (and probably more normal pace) he'll come close to some record and have the trophy case to back it up

but slighting brady...I dunno, the man has 3 rings, he at least earned 1/22 (give or take) of each much like the other starting 21...
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
697 days ago
Score 2+-
Charles Haley is the BEST EVER!!!
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JuTMSY4Legend
697 days ago
Score 1+-
plus, he was nasty in Madden 97 (or 96, i forget which)...
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JuTMSY4Legend
697 days ago
Score 2+-
everyone knows I'll hate on the pats with the best of 'em, but you gotta give credit for where credit is due...
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
697 days ago
Score 2+-
You know... Gee, Adam Vinateri could join Haley this year with 5 rings, eh? Wouldn't it be ironic?
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JuTMSY4Legend
697 days ago
Score 1+-
"Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou ..."
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MegECass110AAA-er
697 days ago
Score 3+-
Tom Brady is getting credit for having THE GREATEST SEASON HIS POSITION HAS EVER SEEN! He deserves it! I agree that a lot of people been whoring him a bit, but no more than Manning got in 2004 with the Colts. He's a quarterback, what do you expect? Belichick deserve credit. Wes Welker deserves credit. The O-line deserves credit. Randy Moss deserves credit. The defense deserves credit. The bottom line is this is a great team headlined by a great quarterback, who was already great before Moss got to New England.
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KelsdadAll-Star
697 days ago
Score 0+-
Agree, 110%. It's undeniable the sole reason for the numbers Brady put up this season is Randy Moss. For the first time ever, Brady had a legitimate go to guy. When you throw a ball with confidence into double coverage and know before the ball leaves your hand it will be caught is an unbelievable feeling. It allows everyone else on the offense to concentrate on their job instead of their job and 1/10th of someone else's.

Brady might be the most fortunate quarterback in NFL history, no one accomplished so much with so little. A dominating defense, league leading special teams is what won the rings for Brady. As I've said many times, the Patriots won despite Brady, not because of.

Put Peyton or Elway or even Marino on the Patriots and they'd have five or six rings.
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Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
696 days ago
Score 1+-
Won despite Brady?!? Now, I'll admit that it wasn't Brady's high powered offense that won 3 Super Bowls, but come on, he had a little to do with it. There's something to be said for a guy who can minimize mistakes, even when he had nobody good to throw to, and can step up and deliver EVERY TIME his team needs it. The game winning drive in the SB against the Rams was Montana-esque to say the least. Sure the great defense should be given more credit, but without Brady back there, those teams would not have been the same.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
696 days ago
Score 1+-
Where were you when they lost because of Tony Eason and Drew Bledsoe?
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Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
696 days ago
Score 1+-
Tony Eason was before my time, but I still have my Bledsoe poster hanging in my room. You might call it my humble pie...
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
696 days ago
Score 2+-
Yeah, remember in Super Bowl XXXVI, when Roman Phifer and Willie McGinist came in, ran the 2 minute drill, and got into field goal range so Vinatierri could win it?
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SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 1+-
Despite Brady??? That's a liiiitttle bit much.
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TehLokiVarsity Captain
697 days ago
Score 2+-
Tom Brady is one of the best QBs to ever play. You act liek Elway didn't have good receivers. How about Favre? What about Young? MOntana? They're listed as 4 of the best QBs to ever play. You're trying to discredit Brady's skills and what he has done this year by using the WRs as an excuse. Who did he have before this year? Caldwell? Gaffney?

To be a great QB you not only have to be an effective thrower, you have to be able to manage the game. Brady did just that and then some before the arrival of his 3 star WRs. He was putting up superb numbers before this year too. I personally am a Manning fan over Brady but if you want to use that logic you just used about WRs, then manning is overrated too. Marvin harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Edgerrin James, Brandon Stokley(hey, he was an AMAZING slot WR)

SS I enjoy your articles almost 99% of the time, but this one, eh, not one of your best.

And yes a QB can be good with no WRs and blockers. McNabb has done it for years. Marino did it, Tarkenton did it.
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TehLokiVarsity Captain
696 days ago
Score 0+-
Ignore that slight on your article, it was meant as a joke and forgot to put my smiley (:P) in there!
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False ProphetAll-Star
696 days ago
Score 1+-
McNabb has had a pretty damn good pass catching RB for a while in Westbrook, Tarkenton had an amazing Defense when he was in MN, allowing him more oppertunities to throw. Ditto Marino for some of his career. Point is that everyone has something that helps them become so good
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SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 0+-
So I guess you didn't enjoy it so much....that you decided to vote for it.
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False ProphetAll-Star
696 days ago
Score 2+-
SSR, you're 99.9% right on this article. The only thing that makes you wrong is that you think that it makes Brady less of a QB. Every Great QB puts up great stats because the receivers do what they have to in order to give the QB said stats, the OL gives the QB enough time to make the throw, and the Defense gives the QB games that don't require throwing 60 yard bombs on first down. There's a reason there are 11 guys on the field in football for each team. It's because they're all necessary in order to win the game
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
696 days ago
Score 1+-
especially Brady... he's hotter than JJ Redick!
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
696 days ago
Score 2+-
Sounds like Davis needs to work on a calculation to determine the top 100 QBs based on their wide reciever's ratings!!!
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CoreyisarealboyMajor Leaguer
696 days ago
Score 0+-
I don't even have to comment on how much I agree with this article.
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Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
696 days ago
Score 0+-
As for the line, yeah, they are great, but Brady can move around in the pocket better than any QB in the NFL. He's not a fast runner, but he's extremely mobile within the pocket. If you watched the games, you would see how good he is at feeling the rush and avoiding it. Put David Carr behind the Pats line, or somebody who'll just stand there, and he gets sacked twice as much as Brady was this year.
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SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 1+-
I think I have to show you some footage of Brady's incredible suckage under pressure.
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Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
696 days ago
Score 3+-
I'm sure you could dig up some plays where he's gone down or thrown picks, but that's part of the game. Overall, Brady will step up when the rush comes and still make the throw. He's one of the best at it from within the pocket.
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SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 0+-
That I'll give him credit for.....he should teach Rex Grossman in the summer.
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Steel TownDraft Pick
696 days ago
Score -1+-
Now that is just a lie Bobby. In fact, that is Brady's biggest weakness.
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SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 0+-
I'm surprised I got positive feedback from most of you.
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
696 days ago
Score 3+-
Lets start a negative feedback list the: 1) I hate when you type what you are thinking...
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SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 1+-
Very funny Manny.....I'm not thinking.
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CheezerAll-Star
696 days ago
Score 2+-
Hidden gem of a comment.
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Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
696 days ago
Score 2+-
I would say Wes Welker as been the biggest beneficiary of Randy Moss. Teams concentrate hard on Moss and Welker gets open underneath. Then from there, he shows his best skill: Yards After Catch. The guy is about four feet tall when he's running and it's just so hard to tackle.
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SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 0+-
I think the guy we are missing here is Donte Stallworth, but I guess it's because he did not make a huge impact as Moss and Welker.
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AfraidofedhochuliDraft Pick
696 days ago
Score 0+-
vomit.gif
Permalink | Reply
AfraidofedhochuliDraft Pick
696 days ago
Score 0+-
damn...that was huge...(that's what she said) BAAAAAAAZING
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SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score -2+-
And that my friends, was the final moments of Karen Carpenter.
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SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 0+-
Moment, darn keyboard.
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AfraidofedhochuliDraft Pick
696 days ago
Score 1+-
ooohhh...snap.
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
696 days ago
Score 1+-
Charlie Weis insists he is responsible for creating Tom Frankenbrady. Just ask him and his obscene contract over at Notre Dame.
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SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 0+-
YOU'RE BACK!!
Permalink | Reply
SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 1+-
Let me clarify something here, Brady is a great QB, hall of fame even, but this season, he is getting too much credit for 16-0.
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Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
696 days ago
Score 2+-
I agree that many people talk about Brady as if he's the whole reason the Patriots went 16-0. I also agree that Brady would not have thrown 50 TDs or even 40 TDs without Randy Moss. As Rawb said, it takes all 53 players and a coach and a front office to accomplish this. However, statements like "when things don't go right they lose their cool", or "the Pats won 3 Super Bowls despite Brady" I do not agree with.
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SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 0+-
Explain the Broncos game 2 years back then. As for Kelsdad's comment, that is something I totally disagree with.
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
696 days ago
Score 1+-
Again, SSR, QBs get too much credit for their teams winning and too much blame for their teams losing. Take Eli Manning, his receivers dropped 43 passes this year but somehow he was the one to blame whenever the Giants struggled. Then look at Ben Roethlisberger a few years ago. He threw the ball about 20 times a game, but when Pittsburgh won it all he was the big hero.

The quarterback is the most visible, most talked about, most applauded, most blamed position in the NFL.

Honestly, what do you expect people to do when a team goes 16-0, the QB sets a record for touchdowns, and oh yeah, he's already won it all three times?
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Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
696 days ago
Score 0+-
Okay, there is no quarterback, no football player, no business man, no person in the world who has not failed at some point. If the best you can do is go back to a game two years ago to pick on a time where Brady choked, that's pretty good. And yeah, you could point to the AFC Championship last year too, but Peyton and crew played a hell of a game and they out played the Pats.
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SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 0+-
Of course I got to pick from a year back because look what happened this season. Anyway, I refuse to believe Brady won Super Bowl XXXVI because of the tuck rule....I've watched that tape over and over again...he is not tucking the football. Brady has had bad games, but it's not nearly given the spotlight as Peyton Manning.
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
696 days ago
Score 0+-
SSR, that's the point of that call against Oakland, he hadn't tucked the ball yet.
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KelsdadAll-Star
696 days ago
Score -1+-
Brady sat the bench at Michigan for a reason..he couldn't play. When your carrying a clipboard behind Brian Griese and Drew Henson you have issues. The Patriots taking a "flyer" on a benchwarmer with a sixth round pick who turned into a Hall of Famer is nothing but luck and Brady being in the right place at the right time. The end result, the rings, far outweighs Brady's talent or his contribution to the result. He was just along for the ride.
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SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 0+-
Bledsoe was probably going to get benched anyway, he was a bad QB.
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
696 days ago
Score 0+-
Brady was too busy tutoring Henson on the finer aspects of the changeup.
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Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
696 days ago
Score 1+-
Hmm... Brady actually started for Michigan in his junior and senior seasons. He set records for completions, attempts and yardage at Michigan. He won the Citrus Bowl against Arkansas his Junior year and a share of the Big-Ten Championship and won the Orange Bowl in his senior year, throwing for 369 yards and 4 TDs against Alabama. The reason he didn't get drafted until the 6th round was mainly durability concerns as he was 6-4, 205 pounds, plus he couldn't run well and wasn't yet able to throw a good deep ball. Luck? No, Kels, he's been winning his whole career.
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
696 days ago
Score 1+-
Except at the Combine. He did suck at that!
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Napoleon15Red-Shirting
696 days ago
Score 1+-
Brady was amazing under pressure in the Giants game. He had guys in his face all day long and got knocked down repeatedly, but still had a fantastic performance.
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KelsdadAll-Star
696 days ago
Score -3+-
So that means he sucks worse than I thought. If he started two years and won bowl games and set records and still went in the sixth round, then he really is a tool.

Say what you want. I'm not arguing with what he's done, I am saying put Manning or someone else on the Pats and they win more, and put Brady on last year's Bears and they don't play in the Super Bowl.

I don't know what the problem is with most of you Pat's homers, just admit it..talent wise, Brady is closer to the bottom of the rankings in the NFL, not the top. Facts are facts.
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Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
696 days ago
Score 2+-
Yes, Brady wins at every level, so clearly that's making your case that Brady sucks...

He was drafted in the sixth round because he couldn't run fast (they don't test pocket presence in the NFL combine, only straight line speed and shuttle shit that doesn't mean anything), he hadn't developed a big arm yet, and he was smaller than they thought he should've been. Ryan Leaf was drafted early, does that mean he's a great quarterback? Does he have the kind of "talent" you'd want on your team? People develop while in the NFL from where they were on Draft Day (and clearly Brady is much much better than a 6th round pick)

Put Brady on the Bears last year (a team somewhat similar to the 2001 Pats, except for the QB position) and they win the Super Bowl. Are you telling me that Rex Grossman is a better quarterback than Tom Brady? That's got to be a joke.

And saying Brady isn't talented isn't a fact at all, that's something you've pulled out of your butt because you probably hate what the Pats are doing.
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Napoleon15Red-Shirting
696 days ago
Score 1+-
Manning has historically been a better regular season QB, and Brady a better playoff and clutch QB. That, in my book, makes Brady better than Manning. You are denying it merely because you hate anything from New England. I started liking Brady and the Patriots largely because I admired Brady's style and Belichick's coaching; I have no allegiance to New England, since I've never even been there.
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SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 0+-
Kels, NFL teams don't draft for skill, they draft for height, weight, strength, and speed, so that comment you made is totally off base.
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Steel TownDraft Pick
696 days ago
Score 0+-
I like Bilechicks coaching to. Cheat your way to the top.
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KelsdadAll-Star
696 days ago
Score 1+-
You're kidding, right? Skill is the primary reason they're drafted. Everything else is a piece of the skill puzzle, without skill you're a truck driver.

Aow many draft camps or tryout camps did you go through?

If you're answer is less than one, don't bother responding.
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Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
696 days ago
Score 2+-
You're right that it is skill they're looking for, but when you see guys like Tom Brady and Tony Romo, or Ryan Leaf and Akili Smith, you have to wonder if they are looking for the right skills.
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SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 2+-
Then I guess Matt Hasselbeck, Warren Moon, David Garrard, and Tony Romo did not have as much skill as Ryan Leaf, Kelly Stouffer, Timm Rosenbach, and Akili Smith.
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SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 1+-
Darn it, I just repeated what you just said....my computer takes forever uploading all of these comments.
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SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 0+-
Warren Moon is in the hall of fame as well so....
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KelsdadAll-Star
696 days ago
Score -4+-
Neither of you guys have a clue.

The Pats drafted Brady as a serviceable backup to Bledsoe. If they didn't thing Bledsoe was their QB of the future and wanted to have a competition in camp, then Brady would have gone first or second. In the NFL, a sixth round pick is expected to be nothing more than a practice player, if that.

I give all the credit in the world to Brady for accomplishing what he has but the facts are what they are, when he was drafted, his only skill was carrying a clipboard.
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SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 0+-
Brady Quinn was selected in the first round, look what happened.
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
696 days ago
Score 0+-
Quinn's commerical sucks.
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SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 0+-
He is busy after all delivering sandwiches...to Romeo Crennel.
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
696 days ago
Score 0+-
Manwich.
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Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
696 days ago
Score 0+-
You're right Brady was drafted to be Bledsoe's backup. I'm not saying that Bill Belichick saw this guy out of Michigan and said, "This kid is going to become one of the best quarterbacks to ever play the game." But he saw that Brady knew how to lead a team, knew how to win and had an incredibly accurate arm. The perfect guy to step into a situation where he could lead a team if Bledsoe got hurt. Then his skills developed even more under Bledsoe's, and Weis', and Belichick's tutilege and once Brady's opportunity came, he was more than well prepared to win football games. Except for maybe Peyton, RIGHT NOW, Tom Brady is the most skilled quarterback in the NFL, taking into account a combination of arm strength, arm accuracy, leadership skills, mobility inside and outside the pocket, toughness and durability. That's just much fact as any of the "facts" you've presented in your argument.
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Napoleon15Red-Shirting
696 days ago
Score 1+-
Joe Montana went in the 3rd round with the 82nd pick. Rod Smith wasn't drafted at all. Terrell Davis was selected in the 6th round with the 196th pick. An athlete's draft rank has nothing to do with his potential greatness.
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Steel TownDraft Pick
696 days ago
Score 0+-
Bobby, where the hell do you get this idea that Brady is mobile. Neither Brady or Manning could win without such a great line in front of them. That's the story with both of them. Apply a lot of pressure and your team has a chance. It seemed to work for several teams this year, when Brady was under a lot of pressure the team did worse.
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Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
696 days ago
Score 1+-
I'm not saying that he can get outside the pocket and scramble, but he's very good at moving around from within the pocket, feeling the rush and sliding around, stepping up and making the throws. The line is excellent, I'm not saying they're not, but when they let a block go on the sides or something, Brady can adjust very well. Of course, every quarterback is going to play worse when there's pressure, but Brady handles it better than most (except for the guys like Young, or McNabb, or those who are fast, which certainly doesn't include Brady).
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Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
696 days ago
Score 1+-
Obviously, I'm crediting the line here a lot too, I've never taken anything away from them. You need a quality line to have a pocket to move around in.
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
696 days ago
Score 2+-
Memo to NFL teams...

Wanna cultivate a quality young QB?

Sign Drew Bledsoe.

Worked well for New England and Dallas.
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Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
696 days ago
Score 0+-
Want a quality backup? Try Matt Cassell. He's backed up Carson Palmer and Matt Leinart at USC, Tom Brady in New England, and also been third string behind Doug Flutie and Vinny Testaverde in New England.
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
693 days ago
Score 0+-
sad but true
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Davis21wylieMVP
696 days ago
Score 1+-
Here was Brady's pre-draft scouting report (pdf)... It talks about his accuracy, poise, mechanics, leadership, and ability to read defenses as strengths, and his size, arm strength, and speed as weaknesses. Today, he's improved his arm strength to the point that it's among the top half of starting QBs, he's put on weight and gotten stronger, and his athleticism isn't a factor because he's so good at feeling the rush and sliding within the pocket. Basically, he worked hard at his weaknesses and made himself a complete player...

Here's what Scouts Inc. had to say before the season:

"Grade: 92/100

Comment: Brady is one of the top quarterbacks in the league coming out of his seventh season. He has excellent size, intelligence, instincts, and leadership. He has very good arm strength and can make all the throws. Brady has a three quarter ear release with normal weight transfer but can adjust and deliver the ball from different angles if need be. He has a great feel for the moment and how to manage a game to put the Patriots in position to win. Brady can be very accurate and timely during crunch time of a contest and has shown consistency with his poise under pressure. He is not a run threat but he can slide and avoid making effective throws down field. He is a good decision maker and rarely makes a mistake to lose a game. Brady has great awareness in the pocket to dump the ball and keep the play alive. He will force the ball at times and is inconsistent to make accurate deep throws. Brady is tough-minded, very competitive and appeared to become a bit frustrated with not having the same weapons to win games in 2006 that he had in the past. He had a few outings that were sub par during the season and versus some of the tougher opponents (Denver, Indianapolis, second Miami contest when they were on a role and the opener against Buffalo). He has put up consistent numbers with similar results throughout his entire career but it appeared that there was a difference in Brady's body language in 2006. Brady is a future Hall of Famer and should continue to be productive in the coming years especially with the recent acquisitions in the 2007 off season."

Skills-wise, Brady is probably the 2nd-best QB in football behind Manning. Anyone who says otherwise is flying in the face of both scouts and the numbers.
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Napoleon15Red-Shirting
696 days ago
Score 1+-
The best players aren't necessarily the best athletes. Otherwise, Michael Vick would be one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time.
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Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
696 days ago
Score 0+-
Nice work, Davis, I could argue that Brady is better skill-wise than Manning too, but it could go either way and really wouldn't be worth it.
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Davis21wylieMVP
696 days ago
Score 0+-
I mean, I don't want to seem like too big of a homer, and ranking them is really like #1 and #1a, so you could pick either and be just fine. I mainly wanted to emphasize the absurdity of suggesting Brady is at the bottom of the QB rankings.
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Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
696 days ago
Score 0+-
I'm not trying to be a homer either. I never thought I'd have to start defending the fact that Brady is talented. Seems pretty obvious to me...
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KelsdadAll-Star
696 days ago
Score 0+-
What happened to #54 all time? I guess that means Sean Salisbury is right, most every QB in the league today sucks.
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Napoleon15Red-Shirting
696 days ago
Score 0+-
Quit being a homer, Kelsdad. Just admit it when athletes from New England are the best in the league.
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Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
696 days ago
Score 0+-
Well, if Tom Brady isn't skilled, then Salisbury must be right... every other quarterback just sucks really really hard.
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Davis21wylieMVP
696 days ago
Score 0+-
I think I've said a lot to distance myself from that article and the method contained therein over the past 4 months, but I'll say it again: Brady is the 54th-ranked QB all-time in terms of regular season accomplishments, using a method that dramatically overvalues compliers (Craig Morton, anyone?) and rushing QBs (hence Aaron Brooks and Mike Vick bizarrely appearing at the list's bottom).
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
693 days ago
Score -1+-
wow you're determined. i find these comments entertaining but ur suckin the brady teet a little to hard!
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
696 days ago
Score 1+-
John Kruk wholeheartedly nods his head in agreement.
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
696 days ago
Score 2+-
Worst conditioned QB in the NFL? Surprised he doesn't have a coronary carrying the clipboard. lorenzen_jared1.jpg
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KelsdadAll-Star
696 days ago
Score 0+-
You know what pisses me off? When you get minused for telling the truth.

All you Brady lovers need to get your heads out of your asses and look at the big picture. I'm agreeing with you morons by saying Brady in 2007 had his best year but the point of the argument was his perception at the draft table. Kind of a different player, don't you think?

You guys almost make me wish Jamel was still around.
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Napoleon15Red-Shirting
696 days ago
Score 0+-
Who cares what his perception at the draft table was? I'll repeat what I wrote above. Joe Montana went in the 3rd round with the 82nd pick. Rod Smith wasn't drafted at all. Terrell Davis was selected in the 6th round with the 196th pick.
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Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
696 days ago
Score 1+-
I know minuses cause cancer, so I'm not dishing out the minuses, but I think you lost a lot of support when you said New England won despite Brady, and (more or less) Rex Grossman is a better quarterback than Tom Brady.
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Napoleon15Red-Shirting
696 days ago
Score 1+-
And you're not getting minused for telling the truth; you're being minused for being absurd.
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SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 2+-
A Jets fan.....so you should know EVERYTHING about good QB play.
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Davis21wylieMVP
696 days ago
Score 1+-
Here's a fun comparison: Don Mattingly was drafted in the 19th round of the 1979 draft...
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SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 1+-
So Brady is not a good QB?
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DRE-LOAAA-er
696 days ago
Score -1+-
LMAO. Leave my dude alone!!!
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KelsdadAll-Star
696 days ago
Score -1+-
And Mike Piazza in the 64th round, so what's your point?
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SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 1+-
LEAVE GOOD QB'S ALONE!!! crocker-in-britney-clip.jpg
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Davis21wylieMVP
696 days ago
Score 0+-
What's yours? That Brady must not be very good because he wasn't highly-regarded out of college... correct?
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SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 1+-
It started out as talk about Brady getting too much credit, and now it's this....and it's quite fun.
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SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 2+-
Okay, let's give Kels a chance, please list us all of the current starting QB's in the NFL YOU think are better than Brady.
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Anonymous Fanatic #2
696 days ago
Score 0+-
Brady is a great quarterback for the coach and system he plays in. I think nitpicking over 3 SB wins and an undefeated regular season really is sorta... desperate? Though, I think contrariness might be stoked by the over coverage of T. V.? (I don't own one.)
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Pfiore03Waterboy
696 days ago
Score 2+-
Honestly, Tom Brady is a good QB. So he had the best year of his career and had the best wide recieving core in his career. Still Brady is one of the better quarterbacks in the NFL. His career completion percentage is 63. That's better than most quarterbacks in the NFL right now. I agree, he was a 6th round draft pick but so was Troy Smith. He'll probably be starting next year. Being drafted like Eli Manning was or were Brady was has nothing to do with what your future potential will be. Look at the careers many players that were drafted in the 2nd second day. They've done well. So lets keep that in mind.
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CoreyisarealboyMajor Leaguer
696 days ago
Score 0+-
Wow, look at the fun I missed.

OK, here's the deal, all of you are half right. Brady did win at the college level too. But it was Brian Griese that led them to the national championship the year before Brady became the starter. Why couldn't Brady win it the next two years if he's so much better than Brian Griese?

And if I remember correctly, even though Brady was the starter, it was Drew Henson who people thought would be a better quarterback, but he tried to play baseball instead.

It takes a team to make a team good. Not just a quarterback. And if you have good coaching, there isn't much a quarterback has to do except make his reads just like every other player on the field.
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
696 days ago
Score 1+-
Lots of QBs DON'T win national championships. Peyton didn't, and I'd say his NFL career has worked out okay.
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SSreportersLegend
696 days ago
Score 1+-
Tee Martin...nuff said.
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Steel TownDraft Pick
696 days ago
Score 0+-
Tee Martin didn't get a chance here in Pittsburgh. He rode the pine too long by the time he got a shot.
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CoreyisarealboyMajor Leaguer
696 days ago
Score 0+-
That wasn't my point Rawb. You have to have a good team around you to win. Brian Griese had on his team a Heisman Trophy winning cornerback. Tom Brady on his NFL teams has been blessed with good teams and a great head coach. That's why he wins.
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False ProphetAll-Star
696 days ago
Score 3+-
are you shitting me? This has to be the most unbelievable point I've heard you make Corey.

Brady is a Starting QB on a Super Bowl Favorite. Griese is a backup QB for the Bears. Henson isn't even in the league (or if he is, it's as some unknown backup). Brady was not even close to the physical talent he is now. He added more weight, and worked on his speed, his skills, his mechanics, and succeeded.

Both you and KD are idiots if you think that because Brady was a 6th rounder means he's not that good.
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False ProphetAll-Star
695 days ago
Score 0+-
ummmm, facing all 5 other AFC Playoff teams, the top NFC seed, and an NFC Wild Card team, of which they had to play @ Indy and @ Dallas is harder than 9 dome games, a southern game, a cali game, 2 games against an expansion team, a game against the Lions, a game against the Bears. The playoff teams they faced were the Vikings, Packers, Pats and Broncos. 7-0 vs. playoff teams vs. 2-2 vs. playoff teams. Which season was easier?
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Patriot12Little Leaguer
696 days ago
Score 1+-
This is what I can't understand on the so called experts here taking the credit away from Brady when he finally gets decent receivers..

Which Patriotfans have been saying for years..WAIT TILL HE GETS SOME DAMN RECEIVERS..

Of course everyone was heaping great praise on EX RECORD SETTING Manning in 2004 but hey we are talking about the AFC South with that expansion team!!!!!!!!!!!
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JuTMSY4Legend
696 days ago
Score 0+-
because the bills, jets and dolphins are so good...
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False ProphetAll-Star
695 days ago
Score 0+-
as if the AFC South was so good then? An expansion team twice, a bad titans team twice, the Lions, the Bears, and both games against the Jags in favorable passing conditions (warm weather and a dome) is sooo hard.
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JuTMSY4Legend
695 days ago
Score 0+-
the best you can come up with is favorable conditions against the jags... you might call it even, but to say the pats had harder competition this year is a joke...
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
696 days ago
Score 0+-
All that matters is who gets blamed when they lose in the playoffs... AGAIN.
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Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
696 days ago
Score 1+-
I thought you were a Patriots fan now?
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Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
696 days ago
Score 0+-
Oh, I'm a Patriots fan alright!@! I'm a BIG fan of them! (losing a game due to me jinxing the jinxable jinxy jinx out of them. JINX)
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FrugolfVarsity Captain
696 days ago
Score 2+-
I agree with SSreporters, Tom Brady is having a great year, but has had a lot of help.Randy Moss has made a lot of freaky catches.There have been throws that really should have been intercepted that Moss ended up with.I think if you asked him even Brady would admit that.He's a great quarterback with receivers that make him even better.Give Eli Manning the Patriots receivers and he's not Tom Brady, but he'd have much better stats than he has now.
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Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
696 days ago
Score 1+-
Yes, Fru, I agree 100%.
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
696 days ago
Score 2+-
Then give Eli Manning Reche Caldwell and Jabbar Gaffney.
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MylfJV Squad
695 days ago
Score 2+-
Most of those double and triple coverage passes wouldn't have been thrown if it wasn't Moss down field. How often has Brady thrown that deep in past seasons? Practically never. Take out Moss' TD's and that's still 27 TD passes this year, above his average and 1 TD from his 2 best seasons (2 years at 28TDs).
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KillingpabloJV Squad
695 days ago
Score 1+-
Is it okay here to hit on other posters? I so, how you doing Mylf
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KillingpabloJV Squad
695 days ago
Score 1+-
Tom Brady is the best QB in the world because people like to live in the present. Presently he's the best. Next year if he doesn't perform he will be the QB who lost it after a great year and be a hack. Relax people. Still Moss deserves equal amount of credit in NE success. Without Moss Brady wouldn't be "the best QB EVER!!!!!!!!"
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Categories: Randall Cunningham fans | Opinions | Opinions by User SSreporters | January 3, 2008 | January 2008 | NFL Opinions | New England Patriots Opinions | Tom Brady Opinions

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