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Ccampbell34

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Belichick's Legacy: Spygate Circa 2000

by Ccampbell34
created February 14, 2008, last edited February 17, 2009
20
Vote

Bill Belichick has widely been regarded as the top mind in the National Football League since he took the New England Patriots out of mediocrity and led them to become a full fledged dynasty. However one thing has always confused me about Belichick. Typically head coaches find similar success during their tenures with different franchises with the exception being those that choose to coach franchises such as the Arizona Cardinals (Dennis Green) and Detroit Lions (Steve Mariucci) who haven't won a championship in 110+ combined seasons.

Belichick posted a .450 winning percentage during his tenure as Head Coach of the Cleveland Browns but a stellar .711 with the Patriots. Some credit this to the legendary rise of Tom Brady but in both situations he inherited a losing team who had won their division two years prior. Of current NFL Head Coaches, there has not been a dramatic increase or decrease between winning percentages between two separate franchises the individual coached.

Here are the numbers...

Tom Coughlin, .531 winning percentage with Jacksonville Jaguars, .547 winning percentage with New York Giants, Differential of .016  

Tony Dungy, .563 winning percentage with Tampa Bay Buccaneers, .760 winning percentage with Indianapolis Colts, Differential of .197

Herman Edwards, .488 winning percentage with New York Jets, .406 winning percentage with Kansas City Chiefs, Differential of .082

Jon Gruden, .594 winning percentage with Oakland Raiders, .500 winning percentage with Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Differential of .094

Mike Holmgren, .670 winning percentage with Green Bay Packers, .569 winning percentage with Seattle Seahawks, Differential of .101

Dick Jauron, .438 winning percentage with Chicago Bears, .438 winning percentage with Buffalo Bills, Differential of .000

Bill Belichick, .450 winning percentage with Cleveland Browns, .711 winning percentage with New England Patriots, DIFFERENTIAL OF .261

Wade Phillips and Norv Turner are not included for both have only coached one season with their new franchise and inherited winning teams, a situation unlike Belichick's, but both are unlikely to approach the differential level of Belichick. 

How do you explain this extreme difference in success between teams. Belichick still had an able Bernie Kosar in Cleveland upon taking over the franchise who posted a 87.8 rating in Belichick's first year, similar to acquiring a team with an able veteran like Drew Bledsoe. BOTH teams had won their division two years prior.

Who deserves the credit for suddenly making the Patriots a dynasty? Tom Brady had a similar effect upon the franchise as Peyton Manning did in Indianapolis, but odd claims like Eagles Pro Bowl Cornerback Sheldon Brown's declaration that the Patriots knew to throw a screen pass ever time the Eagles threw a major blitz their way in the Super Bowl leads me to believe that Belichick isn't all he is hyped up to be. Whether it be video taping signs or stealing the next best thing to Joe Montana in the draft, it doesn't seem like all of this success can be credited to Belichick. Coaches become better over time but I don't know if any coach can improve that much between leading two franchises in very similar circumstances. A Good Coach? Absolutely. One of the Greatest Ever? I'm beginning to question it.


Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
FrugolfVarsity Captain
653 days ago
Score 0+-
Interesting, maybe there is something more to spygate!!
Permalink | Reply
Steel TownDraft Pick
653 days ago
Score 0+-
There was an article in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette that showed teh statistics that the Pats had when playing a team for the second time that year. The Pats had an amazing record when they faced a team for the second time. I don't know how much the spying helped, but I do know that people will always associate their victories with the camera scandal.
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Ccampbell34All-American
653 days ago
Score 1+-
Yeah, I haven't made up my mind yet, but a lot of evidence points to Belichick riding this taping to more wins.
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
653 days ago
Score 1+-
It only points that way because that's the direction you're looking at.
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Steel TownDraft Pick
653 days ago
Score 1+-
Yeah, get it strait Campbell. You need to see it from a New England perspective. Belichick cheated for shits and giggles. It had no effect what so ever on how the Pats performed and in no way influenced the outcome of games. Don't you get it Campbell? It was all for fun, they didn't need to cheat just a little like everyone else was doing but didn't get caught cause there is a worldwide conspiracy against the Pats.
Permalink
Ccampbell34All-American
653 days ago
Score 0+-
I'm not questioning it had an effect on games, but whether or not it still means he's an elite coach
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
653 days ago
Score 1+-
I heard a report on ESPN Radio that the NFL released a statement that Belichick confessed to illegal videotaping for several years. Has anyone read this? (Discussed on Mike & Mike)
Permalink | Reply
Steel TownDraft Pick
653 days ago
Score 0+-
Yes, i think it is in the new Hot links section here at the chair.
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Steel TownDraft Pick
653 days ago
Score 0+-
My bad, it's in the "In the news" Section.
Permalink
Ccampbell34All-American
653 days ago
Score 0+-
Yea Goodell told Specter it has gone on since 2000
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
653 days ago
Score 2+-
Biggest difference between the Browns and Patriots wasn't Belichick filming. It was their owners. With the Pats, Belichick was given freedom to make his moves. He also has Scott Pioli with him in New England. With Cleveland, his ability to make moves was much more restricted.
Permalink | Reply
Steel TownDraft Pick
653 days ago
Score 1+-
Well...either that or the illegal taping of defensive signals:)
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
653 days ago
Score 3+-
Everybody tapes, not everyone gets caught.
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
653 days ago
Score 1+-
*can't believe I'm doing this...

Sometimes the numbers are just numbers...

Vince Lombardi:

Packers .754, Redskins .583 - diff .171

Marv Levy

Bills .614 Chiefs .425 - diff .190

Mike Shanahan

Broncos .625 Raiders .400 - diff .225

Steve Mariucci

49ers .594 Lions .349 - diff .245


Paul Brown

Browns .767 Bengals .495 - diff .272

Mike Ditka

Bears .631 Saints .313 - diff .318

Curly Lambeau

Packers .688 Cardinals .318 - diff .350


George Seifert

49ers .766 Panthers .333 - diff .433

Rich Kotite

Eagles .563 Jets .125 - diff .438
Permalink | Reply
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
653 days ago
Score 0+-
Might be the only time ever Rich Kotite shares a comment with Ditka, Lombardi, Lambeau, Seifert, Levy, etc..... :)
Permalink
Ccampbell34All-American
653 days ago
Score 0+-
Yea but did any of them RECENTLY improve by that much... No
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
653 days ago
Score 0+-
There's more to a "team" than just it's coach.

As for "recent" head coaches - there's been HOW MANY coaches replaced in the last 2 years? History is a precedent.

Ignore history - tread lightly

Meaning: I hardly think Belichick was the lone cheater on the Pats.

Let's leave him alone, the Football gods are doing a fine job on their own...
Permalink
Ccampbell34All-American
653 days ago
Score 0+-
The NFL is not what it used to be where coaches like Levy and Brown ran franchises that continuously won their respective division each year, it's rare that happens for more than 3-4 years now with the exception of the Colts and Patriots
Permalink
Ccampbell34All-American
653 days ago
Score 0+-
As I apparently wrote that last comment the same time as you...

I realize all of this, I just am questioning his status as the top coach in the NFL as he is usually called due to all of this
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
653 days ago
Score 0+-
Left hand column = good players Right hand column = guys who were cut by the left hand column
Permalink | Reply
Yakob878MVP
653 days ago
Score 0+-
owners and gm's wanting to spend money and win
Permalink | Reply
SSreportersLegend
653 days ago
Score 0+-
NO!!! You are never supposed to speak bad of the Patriots!! That's.....un-American!
Permalink | Reply
Yakob878MVP
653 days ago
Score 0+-
as much as i love them you do talk bad about them sometimes
Permalink | Reply
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
652 days ago
Score 1+-
Bill Belichick's winning percentage with the red hoody: 0.000
Permalink | Reply
CheezerAll-Star
652 days ago
Score 0+-
Hereby casting my vote that Tyrone gets a new avatar.
Permalink
Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
652 days ago
Score 0+-
This is a new one. It replaces the possessed Linda Blair.
Permalink
CmdrporterWaterboy
652 days ago
Score 0+-
A cheat is a cheat and a liar is a liar and Belicheat's both. Nothing new to add except cheater don't always win 17-14
Permalink | Reply
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Categories: Opinions | Opinions by User Ccampbell34 | February 14, 2008 | February 2008

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