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LouGehrig
I have been a Yankees fan for many years. Thanks to what has occurred during the last few years, I am beginning to wonder.

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Baseball's Greatest Center Fielder Retires

by LouGehrig
created May 24, 2009, last edited September 21, 2009
11
Vote

by Harold Friend

Joe DiMaggio played his last game on October 10, 1951. William Earl "Bill" Essick, the Yankees' West Coast scout who signed Joe DiMaggio, died in his sleep two days later at the age of 69 as a result of a heart ailment. One can romanticize the events, but they were merely coincidental.

Bill Essick Hated to Lose

Essick was known as "Vinegar Bill" because he hated to lose so much. It was not unusual for him not to say anything for hours after a loss. Vinegar Bill had not been a very good player, but he was an excellent judge of baseball talent.

Essick Convinced the Yankees to Obtain an Injured Joe DiMaggio

Almost every team was after Joe DiMaggio, but when he hurt his knee, they lost interest. Bill Essick was not convinced and persuaded the Yankees to purchase DiMaggio's contract for $25,000. The rest is history.

Joe DiMaggio Had Played His Last Game

After the Yankees won the 1951 World Series, Joe DiMaggio told reporters that he had played his last game. "I have made up my mind to retire and that is my present intention. I have given it considerable thought." When referring to Joe DiMaggio, baseball writers usually described him as "baseball's greatest star since Babe Ruth."

Praise and Awe

Yankees' manager Casey Stengel, who didn't get along with Joe, respected his ability. "The day DiMaggio quits, part of the Yankees will be gone, too. In a sense, Joe was the Yankees, just as Babe Ruth was before him."

Gil McDougald, who had just completed his first season and would win the American League Rookie of the Year Award, was disappointed. McDougald, like most other players, was always in awe of DiMaggio. "I wish I could tell DiMaggio just how I feel about playing on the same team with him. Just knowing that he may be watching me makes me try all the harder to do good. I still find it hard to believe that I am on the same team with him."

A Money Player

Joe DiMaggio announced his retirement in December 1951. Joe DiMaggio was the heart of the Yankees and the greatest center fielder to play the game. He was a money player with few equals who rarely faltered when the chips were down. It didn't matter what he had to do. It could be a big hit, a great catch, or a critical throw. DiMaggio's only flaw was that he rarely made a difficult play because he rarely made a play look difficult.

There wasn't a player with a better, stronger, or more accurate throwing arm than DiMaggio's when Joe was in his prime. Runners refused to challenge him, and the season that he suffered from a sore arm, he said that he would make one hard throw a game. "It was the only throw I had in my system. Once I let go, I was through for the day."

Instincts

Joe DiMaggio was a natural baseball player who relied on his instincts. Unlike Ted Williams, DiMaggio couldn't break down hitting or fielding into component parts to analyze them. As another great center fielder said, "They throw the ball, I hit it. They hit the ball, I catch it." Only Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, and Tris Speaker were considered greater outfielders than DiMaggio when he retired.

"Character and Overwhelming Pride"

By refusing to play in 1952, Joe DiMaggio turned his back on $100,000, which was the most any player had ever made in a season. New York Times columnist Arthur Daley expressed it succinctly. "Only a man with character and overwhelming pride could take a step like that. The Yankee Clipper has always been a proud man. That's why he was such a great ball player. He was never satisfied with anything less than perfection."

References:

Associated Press, 1951. (1951, October 13). BILL ESSICK, SENT DIMAGGIO TO YANKS :Team's West Coast Scout for 25 Years Dies--'Discovered' Lazzeri, Gordon, Gomez. New York Times (1857-Current file),12. Retrieved May 24, 2009, from ProQuest Historical Newspapers The New York Times (1851 - 2005) database. (Document ID: 89816612).

DiMaggio, Before Flying to Coast, Says He Has Played Last Game :YANK ACE UNMOVED IN PLAN TO RETIRE DiMaggio Says He Is Delaying Official Announcement in Deference to Topping TO TOUR KOREA AND JAPAN Stengel, Team-Mates Hope He Changes Mind--Lane Sees Loss to All League Clubs Asks Joe to Wait Team-Mates Sensed Move Big Gate Attraction. (1951, October 13). New York Times (1857-Current file),25. Retrieved May 24, 2009, from ProQuest Historical Newspapers The New York Times (1851 - 2005) database. (Document ID: 89816924).

By ARTHUR DALEY. (1951, December 12). Sports of The Times :End of the Trail The Big Fellow In Search of a Flaw Natural Instincts. New York Times (1857-Current file),64. Retrieved May 24, 2009, from ProQuest Historical Newspapers The New York Times (1851 - 2005) database. (Document ID: 89483420).

Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
Davis21wylieMVP
173 days ago
Score 1+-
Gee, and I thought this would be another article about Willie Mays' retirement...
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LouGehrigRed-Shirting
173 days ago
Score 0+-
Gee, once again you thought wrong. But if you have patience (if you are a physician, you may have patients as well), you may have the privilege of reading about Mickey's, and maybe even Duke's retirements.
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Davis21wylieMVP
173 days ago
Score 2+-
So you're telling me Mays was not the greatest CF ever? And that DiMaggio was better? And Mantle, and Duke Snider? OK... You're certainly entitled to that misguided opinion, but you're wrong. BTW, ever hear of Oscar Charleston? Any true student of the game would take him over the overrated DiMaggio any day of the week. But then again, he never played for the Yankees (never even played in MLB, a damn shame), so I guess he doesn't count, eh Lou?
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JuTMSY4Legend
173 days ago
Score 3+-
thunderdome.jpg
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Davis21wylieMVP
173 days ago
Score 2+-
I actually thought what I wrote here was more controversial... I mean, isn't it basically accepted as fact among non-Yankee fans that Mays is #1?
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Davis21wylieMVP
173 days ago
Score 1+-
Without even getting into the numbers (which favor Mays in a landslide), let me ask this: Have you ever heard someone suggest that either Mantle, Snider, or DiMaggio was the "greatest player in baseball history"? Not the greatest CF even, but the greatest all-around player? Because I haven't. Meanwhile, Mays is constantly brought up alongside the likes of Ruth in that argument. That should tell you immediately that he's already put the greatest CF question to rest, and is now involved in loftier debates.
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Davis21wylieMVP
173 days ago
Score 1+-
And yes, I'm basically being a douche for its own sake at this point. But somebody heaping praise on DiMaggio is one of those buttons for me. "Greatest living ballplayer" my ass, when Mays, Williams, and a host of others were still alive...
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
173 days ago
Score 1+-
Geez, when I saw the title I thought he was talking about Ken Griffey Jr.
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False ProphetAll-Star
173 days ago
Score 3+-
Griffey is a great guy, no doubt, and is a good CF, but there's no way he's even close to being the GOAT
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JuTMSY4Legend
173 days ago
Score 1+-
I thought the same thing, seeing as the title appears to be in the present tense...
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
173 days ago
Score 3+-
Let's not forget Ty Cobb, either. He was kind of good. He didn't have a 56 game hit-streak or a sexless marriage with Marilyn Monroe, but his .367 career average isn't bad.
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ClumsykPee Wee
173 days ago
Score 2+-
I just wanted to highlight: "They throw the ball, I hit it. They hit the ball, I catch it." We need more of this!
Permalink | Reply
Sj-hypocycloidAll-American
171 days ago
Score 1+-
"Baseball been very very good...to me..."
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LouGehrigRed-Shirting
173 days ago
Score 0+-
The facts speak for themselves. Joe DiMaggio was the greatest center fielder in baseball history.

It is fascinating how those who never saw him play are thought to be more qualified to evaluate him than those who saw him play.

Statistics are merely a tool to help. They are not the "Decider." (The Decider left office and no longer decides, but that is for another time.).

Willie Mays was great, but he wasn't as great as Mickey Mantle. Mickey had more power, was faster, could bunt, and was feared much more by pitchers than Willie.
Permalink | Reply
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
172 days ago
Score 1+-
By your logic, I could say that Ty Cobb is the greatest centerfielder ever. You never saw him play, so how can you dispute it?


Mickey Mantle had more power? You know Willie Mays had 660 homeruns, right? To me, he and Mantle are on the same stratosphere of super-powerhitters. But to say Mickey "had more power" without backing it up (same exact career SLG%, btw) is a lame argument.


And he could bunt, wow. Amazing.
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
172 days ago
Score 3+-
My problem with declaring Joe DiMaggio the greatest CF ever is that at the very least, there is loads of debate. Ty Cobb and his highest average EVER, 2nd most hits, 2nd most runs, 5th most bases, 4th most doubles, 7th most RBI, 4th most stolen bases (832 more than DiMaggio, Cobb actually stole home (54 times) more than DiMaggio stole any base (30 SBs)), and 11th most extra base hits all seem to say "All-Time Great."


You can't just say "the facts speak for themselves." Mays was a better fielder on the same level of power as Mays. Cobb was a better hitter in everything but power.


The Yankees already have more than their fair share of all-time greats, there's no need to make every great Yankee out to be the best ever at their position. Next you'll say Berra's better than Bench, and Whitey Ford's better than Walter Johnson.
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LouGehrigRed-Shirting
171 days ago
Score 0+-
Berra, Campanella, Dickey and Cochrane were at least the equal of Bench.

Best at each position:

1B Gehrig 2B Hornsby 3B Schmidt SS Wagner OF Ruth OF DiMaggio (or Speaker) OF Cobb C Dickey RHP Johnson, Mathewson

LHP Grove, Koufax
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Sj-hypocycloidAll-American
171 days ago
Score 0+-
See? Now this is why I think that this kind of stuff can't be quantified. Where is Musial, Aaron, Clemente, Cy Young, Ryan, Frank Robinson, Ted Williams, Mantle, Hornsby, Wagner? just to name a few. It's great for discussion, but I can't see this argument ever having a winner.
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
171 days ago
Score 2+-
All good sports discussions cannot be won or lost. It's like politics or religion. That's why it's discussed at all, because there is no right or wrong.
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
171 days ago
Score 1+-
Oh, and C Josh Gibson
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JuTMSY4Legend
171 days ago
Score 0+-
Chase Utley is the best 2nd baseman ever... You got to see him play this weekend!
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Sj-hypocycloidAll-American
172 days ago
Score 2+-
I'm surprised this is such a contentious issue. It's not like Lou is drawing this "greatest CF ever" stuff out of the air. I've heard this before. I don't really agree with it, because I have never believed that these sorts of things can truly be quantified.


People who are in the generation of fans that loved baseball in the 30s and 40s (like my father) seem to have a similar affinity for Mr. Coffee. One thing I will say - I was always impressed by the remarkably low Ks he had in his seasons/career. Only 13 Ks in 1941? In 541 ABs? That's like, 5 games for Ryan Howard. Joe never struck out more than 39 times in a season. Of course, all of this is a very moot aside...just something I've always remembered about Joe.


I can say that I think that Ted Williams was the "greatest living baseball player" (after his first two seasons, Ted never struck out more than 49 times in a season) during the time period that DiMaggio held claim to this (very silly and stupid) moniker, but it's strictly my opinion. I would expect some debate if I were to simply make this statement and pick out the appropriate numbers to strengthen my claim. I'd be surprised (and probably defensive) to have someone tell me that I'm wrong or to tell me that so-and-so had more homers/stolen bases/extra base hits or whatever. None of that would make me change my opinion.


It's pretty safe to say that DiMaggio was one of the greatest players (and, it flows logically, CFs) that ever played. But baseball has been around for over 100 years, and so many greats have come and gone...to say that anyone is the "greatest" ever just seems nonsense to me. Cobb and Mays are both reasonable names to throw out there. And I'm sure there are many others that are not even being thought of.


Another thing to consider - if DiMaggio had not retired when he did, we would not have seen Mickey Mantle. I'm sure we'd have seen him eventually (a year or two later?), but who knows what would have happened?
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LouGehrigRed-Shirting
171 days ago
Score 1+-
Great post. Mickey would have played right field and Bauer and Woodling would have been quite upset.
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LouGehrigRed-Shirting
171 days ago
Score 1+-
"By your logic, I could say that Ty Cobb is the greatest centerfielder ever. You never saw him play, so how can you dispute it?"

A simplistic approach. Most of today's younger fans (>30 years of age) merely listen to those in the media or view statistics. That is only one part involved in evaluating a player. I never saw Cobb play, but those who did have varying degrees of competency in evaluating him. If today's younger fans read about DiMaggio, it would affect THEIR evaluations.

"Mickey Mantle had more power? You know Willie Mays had 660 homeruns, right? To me, he and Mantle are on the same stratosphere of super-powerhitters. But to say Mickey "had more power" without backing it up (same exact career SLG%, btw) is a lame argument."

You obviously NEVER saw a Mickey Mantle home run. Read about them. No one, except Ruth (Frank Howard possibly), could hit a ball as far, or have the ball explode off the bat the way Mantle could. The SOUND of a Mantle home run was unlike any other. Ask Bob Costas -- or me.

"And he could bunt, wow. Amazing."

Again, simplistic. A slugger who could start a rally with a bunt is invaluable. There were so many games I watched with the Yankees down by two or three runs late in the game. Mantle would be leading off the inning. A solo home run was not a rally, and it would not tie the game, but a bunt single, with Berra, Skowron, Howard, etc. following, might start something.

The third baseman and the first baseman had to respect the possibility of a bunt, so they played in a step or two, which made it easier for Mickey to hit one past them. The second baseman had to play in as well. The pitcher had to be alert because Mickey, batting left handed, was better than anyone but Rizzuto at dragging a bunt between first and the mound.

Yes, it was amazing that he could bunt. Willie could not.
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LouGehrigRed-Shirting
171 days ago
Score 0+-
Please correct > to <
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Davis21wylieMVP
171 days ago
Score 1+-
Yeah, we wouldn't want to look at statistics, the OBJECTIVE RECORDS OF WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED ON THE FIELD... Nah, instead we'll just use someone's subjective opinion on events that happened more than a half century ago. Yep, that's probably more accurate.
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Anonymous Fanatic #2
167 days ago
Score 0+-
> You obviously NEVER saw a Mickey Mantle home run. Read about them.

I did, letting my age show...

>No one, except Ruth (Frank Howard possibly), could hit a ball as far, or have the ball explode off the bat the way Mantle could.


Ahh, nobody ever talks about Frank Howard. When anybody ever talks power, the name that jumps to the front is Howard. The man clubbed the ball into obeying his own laws of physics. Howard's average was never really high, but when he connected, it was gone. I still remember a shot he knocked out of the then-new Dodger Stadium before they'd even finished paving the parking lot and the ball stuck in the mud where it struck earth, making it easy to measure the reported 530+ feet it traveled. It was during batting practice...

I thought it was a pretty decent display of power myself.

But Howard went on to smack the ball that far and farther in his later years as an American leaguer, loved to watch that guy hit. Too bad he didn't hit as often as other batters,get his name in the books for high batting average and all that, but when he did connect...  :) No surprise that he led the league in homers a time or two and was always knocking one into orbit somewhere, often enough to make pitchers fear him like the Lord Almighty was looking down on them from the plate. To them, perhaps it was... ;)

Myself, I'd still rank Mantle as one of the greatest hitters to ever play the game, but he's among seriously respectable company.

Mickey Mantle never hit a ball out of Yankee stadium, and in fact nobody ever did... except Frank Howard. (the stories about Josh Gibson don't follow true) And the umpire called it foul, even though the Yankee fielder said it was a fair ball.

Talk Ruth, Mantle, or the 'roid gang etc all you like, but it is my humble opinion that nobody anywhere ever hit a ball harder and farther than Frank Howard.

Fond memories of the big guy, best when he was wearing Dodger Blue and scored a series championship for his mantle in '63 when LA beat the Yankees four straight, first time anybody ever did that and Howard helped pull it off. Hell, with Howard hitting and Koufax pitching, how could that not work?

Great thread, by the way.  :)
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LouGehrigRed-Shirting
171 days ago
Score 0+-
"Yeah, we wouldn't want to look at statistics, the OBJECTIVE RECORDS OF WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED ON THE FIELD... Nah, instead we'll just use someone's subjective opinion on events that happened more than a half century ago. Yep, that's probably more accurate."

What part of "That is only one part involved..." are is challenging you? Statistics are ONE part of evaluating a player. Take Sandy Koufax. Would you conclude that Jamie Moyer was a more talented pitcher than Koufax because Jamie

Won more games. Pitched more innings. Averaged fewer walks/inning. Averaged more starts/season.

Records may appear to be objective, but they must be taken in context. See Barry Bonds in 2001, Bernie Friberg in 1930, or Luis Tiant in 1968.

"...view statistics. That is only one part involved in evaluating a player."
Permalink | Reply
Davis21wylieMVP
171 days ago
Score 0+-
I love it when people challenge statistics by using ludicrous categories that have nothing to do with actually playing ability. Like I'm going to judge pitcher talent based on raw win totals, raw IP totals, starts per season, and BB/9 (in the absence of K/9 and HR/9, plus park adjustments)... News flash: the player's context can be accounted for in his statistics, including but not limited to era, park, and even level of competition. So please don't try to "debunk" stats by using numbers that no Sabermetrician in their right mind would claim to be proper indicators of talent.
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
171 days ago
Score 1+-
I love when people assume why others have a certain opinion. As if I only think Cobb and Mays are the best CFs ever because I've been told so by others.
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
171 days ago
Score 1+-
So Lou, just to get this straight here, your argument is what? You saw Mantle play, and the ball sounded good off his bat, so he's better than Mays because of that? How did the ball sound off of Mays' bat? Did you ever hear that? How about Babe Ruth's bat?


If you think Mantle and Joe D are #1 and #2 in the best CF ever category, that's fine. And I can't really say they don't belong among candidates for the job. BUT, if your only argument is purely intangible, admittedly subjective, and absolutely personal mumbo jumbo, then you also have to admit that YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENT.


Darren Lewis is the best center fielder ever. If you ever heard the ball off his bat, or saw him play, you'd understand.
Permalink | Reply
Davis21wylieMVP
171 days ago
Score 1+-
Darren Lewis was probably comparable defensively to DiMaggio, no joke.
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
171 days ago
Score 1+-
He was sick in the field.
Permalink
LouGehrigRed-Shirting
171 days ago
Score 0+-
I really can't because the measurements I cited account for the fact that statistics are severely limited and the chances of errors exist.

A great example was Scott Rolen a few weeks ago. I forget whom he was facing, but he had been 0-18 against the pitcher. Gaston started him and Rolen got 3 hits. One example, but one can many, many others.

Babe Ruth -- limited population pool from which players were selected.

Albert Pujols -- much larger population pool, but other sports are more competitive in attracting great athletes than when Ruth played.

Roger Clemens -- what will we ever know?

End of lesson.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
171 days ago
Score 2+-
I've been a Yankee fan for 45 years.

Not only is DiMaggio not the greatest CF of all-time, he's not in the top five.

He is however in the argument as the most overrated player of all time.
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Sj-hypocycloidAll-American
171 days ago
Score 1+-
I guess we might as well tip the argument completely in the other direction, as this statement really can't be backed up if you look at it from a statistical perspective. I think even a "Sabermetrician in their right mind" would say that Joe is one of the great players. Sorry if I am stepping on your toes here, D21...would you agree that Joe D put up stats worthy of him being in the "greatest" discussion?
Permalink
LouGehrigRed-Shirting
171 days ago
Score -1+-
"I love it when people challenge statistics by using ludicrous categories that have nothing to do with actually playing ability. Like I'm going to judge pitcher talent based on raw win totals, raw IP totals, starts per season, and BB/9 (in the absence of K/9 and HR/9, plus park adjustments)... News flash: the player's context can be accounted for in his statistics, including but not limited to era, park, and even level of competition. So please don't try to "debunk" stats by using numbers that no Sabermetrician in their right mind would claim to be proper indicators of talent." Please explain the standard error of the mean, standard deviation, power of sample size, statistical signifcance, and Type I and Type II errors. Thanks for you interest.
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Legend
171 days ago
Score 1+-
you mean general vocabulary/concepts in a stats 101 class? Come on Lou, you can do better...
Permalink
Captain SarcasticWaterboy
171 days ago
Score 0+-
Cool...


Papa...


Bell...
Permalink | Reply
LouGehrigRed-Shirting
171 days ago
Score 1+-
I just posted an article that really is just some documentation with respect to Willie and Mickey. It is on the main page. I did not write it.

Allen Barra, a highly respected baseball writer, book reviewer, and social critic came to the conclusion that Mantle’s best years were far superior to Willie’s. The Wall Street Journal ran an article on June 28, 2002 written by Mr. Barra. Because both were about the same age, the same size, played the same position in the same city and had virtually the same talent, this is this is likely the most argued-about duo in baseball history. Over the long haul, the almost never injured Mays was the more valuable of the two. But that isn’t the definite answer. Looking at a dozen of each player’s peak seasons, I found to my surprise that Mr. Mantle was the superior ballplayer. How did I arrive at this?

1. Fielding. “Mr. Mays was the far superior outfielder, but not by that wide margin. In center field, he averaged 2.56 fly balls per game, compared with Mr. Mantle’s 2.26. But break that down further: every few games, Mr. Mays got a fly ball that Mr. Mantle couldn’t or perhaps, never had a chance to get to because Yankee pitchers struck out so many more batters than the Giants.”

2. Base Running. Though Mr. Mays was thought to be better on the base paths, Mr. Mantle may have better used his speed. Mr. Mays led the National League in steals from 1956 through 1959, with 338 out of 441 (for a 76% success rate). The Mick, who was seldom called on to steal, was even more difficult to throw out. He stole 153 bases in 191 attempts, for an impressing 80.1% average.

3 Batting. The edge is in the batting eye. While Mr. Mays played 591 more games, Mr. Mantle walked 269 more times. His career on-base average of .421 (37 points higher than Mr. Mays) is higher than any modern slugger’s including Barry Bonds .419 career average (through June 2002). In their 12 best seasons, Willie Mays played in 128 more games than Mickey Mantle. But the difference is actually greater since Mr. Mays almost always played complete games, whereas Mr. Mantle often appeared as just a pinch hitter when injured. Mantle during those years led in walks (1308 vs. 876), runs (1,421 vs. 1,372), runs batted in (1,311 vs.1198), home runs (481 vs. 426).
Permalink | Reply
LouGehrigRed-Shirting
171 days ago
Score 0+-
He was, but was Darren Lewis as good as Chuck Diering or Jim Busby? or even Johnny Groth?
Permalink | Reply
Anonymous Fanatic #3
54 days ago
Score 0+-
Nobody but nobody possessed the tremendous strength and blazing speed that Mantle had. If it hadn't had been for bad legs, injuries, and booze, he would have hit 800 home runs. He could have played pro football or basketball, exchanged punches with Marciano in the 50's as a professional boxer, been a powerlifter, or an Olympic decathlete. He was that talented. Mantle is, in my opinion, the greatest athlete ever. And he did it without steroids. Probably more fans paid to see Mantle play than any other athlete. Many fans also showed up early at the ballpark just see Mantle take batting practice. He is without a doubt the greatest clutch hitter in late innings MLB history. Mantle may be the fastest player ever and his perfect game-saving catch in the 1956 World Series is one of the best catches ever(99% of centerfielders ever would have watched the ball drop in front of them-that is "the catch"). Also, two players on the same team chasing Babe Ruth's homerun record (Mantle and Maris) is the second greatest athletic feat in sports history, only to be topped by Cal Ripken's unbelievable streak.”
Permalink | Reply
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